Official Team Fortress 2 Thread

back to the quote, you died..thats why your watching.....try not to die next time WITHOUT being a huge pussy and camping back...those are where you get the best players

Sorry but I have 2 choices, risk dieing trying to defend a point my team are clearly incapable of defending against heavy odds, which sometimes I can pull off, OR I run away and meet up with the team and basically camp back and not take any risks.

This neatly comes back to what I was saying before, too many people are unwilling to takes risks because of the penalty and this causes stalemates, the game is only fun when people are mixing it up and battling it out, these turtle attacks where they build up huge defences of turrets are creating massive stalemates because there's more people defending than attacking, it makes it impossible to break through 'cause not only are the enemy team heavily fortified but your own team lacks good offenc.

The whole system has been designed such that everything tends towards camping and not taking risks, this creates boring matches where no one gets anywhere for 15-20 mins and it ends in a stalemate, which then ends in a draw because sudden death is even worse and EVERYONE camps rather than just some people.

I agree with punishing players for deaths, put punishing players for trying to win is just stupid.

Personally I think that if you've recently been standing on an enemy control point, or have been holding the intelligence, and you die, then you should respawn straight away, that way people who are actually attacking are rewarded for their efforts, rather than punished for them.
 
adding a 10%+ bonus in damage or something like that if you're in enemy territory would give people incentive to get off their asses, and it would probably solve the stalemate problem.
 
I discovered a glitch that is, in my opinion, equally as bad as the running heavy exploit. Basically, Valve neglected to have their walls prevent damage from explosions. What this means is that if you're on the first floor of a building and you know roughly where above you an enemy is, you can shoot the ceiling as a soldier and kill them. Some examples:

1. You can sit in the sewer on ctf_2fort and just shoot the bridge from underneath. If the other team is rushing like they should be, you'll usually get 2 or 3 kills every rush.
2. If there's a bunch of people defending Cap Point C on cp_gravelpit, they're easy to take out now. Usually there's a couple of engineers, a sentry or two or three, and some medics and a pyro or two. Just shoot the bottom of the floor to take out the dispensers, sentries and medics, and the pyros and medics will panic and run off when they drop on health.
3. Cap Point A on cp_gravelpit. Completely takes out any skill required to disable sentries, as you can just go beneath and shoot the ceiling again, to take out dispensers / camping pyros.
4. Also on ctf_2fort, you can go to the first floor directly beneath the enemy spawn, and continously shoot the ceiling right by their spawn entrance. I've actually killed 4 people at once who were just leaving spawn. You can take out sentries in the courtyard this way as well.

There are a ton of examples, too many to list. I had one round with 26 kills as a soldier mostly from killing people through the ceiling. Pretty fun, but now I think it should be fixed.
 
I know I'm almost 50 pages behind, but i finally decided to give this a try. I fell in love, at first i hated the graphics, but the game play completely makes up for it.

I was like, "I'll give this a try for a few." ended up playing for 3hrs straight!
 
Sorry but I have 2 choices, risk dieing trying to defend a point my team are clearly incapable of defending against heavy odds, which sometimes I can pull off, OR I run away and meet up with the team and basically camp back and not take any risks.

This neatly comes back to what I was saying before, too many people are unwilling to takes risks because of the penalty and this causes stalemates, the game is only fun when people are mixing it up and battling it out, these turtle attacks where they build up huge defences of turrets are creating massive stalemates because there's more people defending than attacking, it makes it impossible to break through 'cause not only are the enemy team heavily fortified but your own team lacks good offenc.

The whole system has been designed such that everything tends towards camping and not taking risks, this creates boring matches where no one gets anywhere for 15-20 mins and it ends in a stalemate, which then ends in a draw because sudden death is even worse and EVERYONE camps rather than just some people.

I agree with punishing players for deaths, put punishing players for trying to win is just stupid.

Personally I think that if you've recently been standing on an enemy control point, or have been holding the intelligence, and you die, then you should respawn straight away, that way people who are actually attacking are rewarded for their efforts, rather than punished for them.

I'd have to agree that the game is geared towards camping. No one wants to take risks and die, for whatever reason. Maybe because the game is new and people haven't played before, or maybe because of the general lock of survivability, but no one wants to go on offense ever.

I mentioned this in another forum but survivability seems to be way, way down from TF1. I never played TFC so maybe it was down in TFC as well, but survivability now is ridiculous. In TF1 you could rocket jump as a soldier and lose 40 armor and 10 health. With no armor now you lose 40 health. That's 20% of your hp. A sentry gun will kill you inside of 2 seconds, and taking one out if the engineer is there can be extremely problematic. Rocket jumping in 2fort doesn't even gain you much of an advantage due to the lack of nail grenades you can't really take out ramp room sentries without some random person stumbling out of the respawn, turning around the corner and killing you in 2 seconds, even if it's a scout or engineer.

There's no incentive to go on offense at all and games tend to end up being a huge turtle fest. Stall until sudden death, then everyone just camps like crazy again because if you die, that's it. And there's no reason to take the risk of going offense since most maps seem designed to give the advantage to defenders.

Not to mention the fact that while 2forts is smaller, many maps have a long respawn run from the respawn to the front line. Because engineers don't like going outside they almost never build teleporters to help out, and also because the respawn keeps moving as you advance and you have to rebuild the teleporters, it's a huge pain in the ass to build a porter at spawn 1, build an exit, then move the porter from spawn 1 to spawn 2, etc. all the while trying to build a sentry and a dispenser. Teleporters are instrumental to victory on many maps but rarely do you see them being made because engineers are in such a rush to set up the ubergun. This makes dying suck even worse because not only are you out 15-30s, but you end up having to run for another 30s to get to the front.

In general, due to lowered survivability of soldiers, who should be the main offensive class, not uber heavies, combined with the smaller bases and unlimited health respawns, going offense rarely results in anything good happening. You can wound someone but because of the small bases they will run to a respawn and you will be 1/4 to 1/2 dead and then they just come back. Unless you have a medic with you you're basically screwed.

Pyro fire seems a bit strong too; there's no way to put it out other than grabbing health, being healed by a medic, and jumping in water. Few maps have conveniently located water OR health for an attacking team, and being hit by a single pyro shot will burn you for upwards of 40 damage.

Of course this is all on pubs, but roughly speaking it seems that even if you are really skilled at the game, you can and will die very quickly to crit shots or just accumulated damage from enemy fire coupled with turtle-happy teams filled with engineers who never want to step outside, or scouts running around with bats/scatterguns that can take out soldiers in 3 hits or less.

I'm looking forward to trying out some clan matches, so hopefully a league gets organized, but man pubs are boring.
 
that is true for some map only, and only when the team is unorganized and new. ctf_2fort is one the map that stalemate happens a lot, but other maps not so much. granary and well are fast maps that either win or lose. Gravelpit is my favorite map, as it is one of the more balanced defenders vs offense and reminds me of dust2 for some reason. Hydro is ok, but theres are usually big choke points. Dustbowl is an uberfest to even get out of spawn for offense

I find pyro easy to use, but soldiers own pyro the majority of the time. Point blank rocket will kill a pyro, or if you see him comming at you wait till he gets close and send a rocket to his feet and send him flying and another rocket to his landing and hes gone
 
that is true for some map only, and only when the team is unorganized and new. ctf_2fort is one the map that stalemate happens a lot, but other maps not so much. granary and well are fast maps that either win or lose. Gravelpit is my favorite map, as it is one of the more balanced defenders vs offense and reminds me of dust2 for some reason. Hydro is ok, but theres are usually big choke points. Dustbowl is an uberfest to even get out of spawn for offense

I find pyro easy to use, but soldiers own pyro the majority of the time. Point blank rocket will kill a pyro, or if you see him comming at you wait till he gets close and send a rocket to his feet and send him flying and another rocket to his landing and hes gone

I agree with everything there. Except that I really like Dustbowl as well. Any maps with a predefined offense and defense = win.
 
I agree with everything there. Except that I really like Dustbowl as well. Any maps with a predefined offense and defense = win.
Agreed. I was miffed by the lack of ctf maps upon release of tf2, but the more I play, the more I realize how much more I enjoy the games that are built around the cp style of play. I'm still not a big fan of well and granary, but I think that's because they're similar to 2fort in that the maps are mirrored so teams of equal skill will stalemate. With dustbowl, hydro, and gravelpit, the maps are fluid and change shape so things won't play out the same every time.
 
I agree with you spotpuff, almost 100%.

The Pyro seems good in combat now which is nice but this whole "flame you once and leg it while you burn to death" bollocks has to stop. Everytime I run into a Pyro and kick his ass I never have enough time to quite make it back to health or water, or even a medic.

The flames burn for too long, they need to burn for 1/2 the time so that only if you're on 1/3 health or less will fire kill you on it's own, the pyro needs to do some work on you with a shotgun or something to make up for it, if they dont want to do that then at least remove 25 health from the pyro, considering his speed and damage up close he really needs to be a bit weaker, sometimes 3 well placed rockets isn't enough to take one down, vs the soldier is left close quaters with only a shotgun left, kinda pathetic.

On the more general note of the lack of offensive players, I agree, this is a massive gameplay breaking problem. Motivating a team to actually push foward and attack is like a 2nd job, I don't want to have to teach the basic gameplay mechanics to my team everytime I join a server, people just don't ever risk a decent push unless they're likely to survive the encounter. This means decent pushes only ever happen where the teams are stacked one way, this results in 2 things, stalemates, or total dominations, niether are desireable.

Sudden death HAS TO GO, I've been in so many decent matches where it's been a struggle push backwards/forwards and we've finally got them down to the last point and victory is just within our grasp but then YAY sudden death pops up and now we reset the whole damn game only to spend 3-4 minutes in a round where everyone camps and no one attacks simply because no one wants to spend 3 minutes spectating the match, it's boring as hell.
 
.....sometimes 3 well placed rockets isn't enough to take one down, vs the soldier is left close quaters with only a shotgun left, kinda pathetic.

Hogwash, Frosteh! Two well placed rockets, at most, are all that's needed. The Pyro does dish out some serious damage, but at the same time he's still really fragile. Death rate is high - but he's still so fun to play. =)
 
2 direct hits maybe, but the only time you get a direct hit with the solider is if your enemy only runs in straight lines, yes it's easy to beat a bad pyro and lord knows there's enough around.

I think I'm right in saying the Pyro has the 2nd fastest movement speed next to the scout, and the 3rd most health behind the HWG and the soldier, yet has one of the most powerful close combat weapons. I'm totaly behind the pyros flame hit detection fix and think it's good now, he just needs a little additional tweak to stop the lame encounters with him, the flame burn down maybe 5 seconds, or knock off 25HP would suit me.
 
I agree too, you are on fire for WAY too long. It's great being a pyro, but when you see one running your way, it's a scary thing.
 
2 direct hits maybe, but the only time you get a direct hit with the solider is if your enemy only runs in straight lines, yes it's easy to beat a bad pyro and lord knows there's enough around.

I think I'm right in saying the Pyro has the 2nd fastest movement speed next to the scout, and the 3rd most health behind the HWG and the soldier, yet has one of the most powerful close combat weapons. I'm totaly behind the pyros flame hit detection fix and think it's good now, he just needs a little additional tweak to stop the lame encounters with him, the flame burn down maybe 5 seconds, or knock off 25HP would suit me.

I'd like to see all the damage remain intact, but perhaps lower the secondary burn time by a few seconds. Lowering his health would really hurt the class. He puts himself in harms way enough the way it is.
 
I'd like to see all the damage remain intact, but perhaps lower the secondary burn time by a few seconds. Lowering his health would really hurt the class. He puts himself in harms way enough the way it is.

Agreed, I don't think I die as much as when I'm a pyro, because I'm always in the front lines right next to a group of enemies. I'm still practicing how to play him correctly though. But I think he's pretty balanced, just the burn time needs to be cut in half.
 
As a soldier i love fighting pyros, they're perhaps the easiest class when i'm a soldier. They come close they die to my point blank rocket or if they're close I usually send them flying in the air and another rocket at their landing.
 
I discovered a glitch that is, in my opinion, equally as bad as the running heavy exploit. Basically, Valve neglected to have their walls prevent damage from explosions. What this means is that if you're on the first floor of a building and you know roughly where above you an enemy is, you can shoot the ceiling as a soldier and kill them. Some examples:

1. You can sit in the sewer on ctf_2fort and just shoot the bridge from underneath. If the other team is rushing like they should be, you'll usually get 2 or 3 kills every rush.
2. If there's a bunch of people defending Cap Point C on cp_gravelpit, they're easy to take out now. Usually there's a couple of engineers, a sentry or two or three, and some medics and a pyro or two. Just shoot the bottom of the floor to take out the dispensers, sentries and medics, and the pyros and medics will panic and run off when they drop on health.
3. Cap Point A on cp_gravelpit. Completely takes out any skill required to disable sentries, as you can just go beneath and shoot the ceiling again, to take out dispensers / camping pyros.
4. Also on ctf_2fort, you can go to the first floor directly beneath the enemy spawn, and continously shoot the ceiling right by their spawn entrance. I've actually killed 4 people at once who were just leaving spawn. You can take out sentries in the courtyard this way as well.

There are a ton of examples, too many to list. I had one round with 26 kills as a soldier mostly from killing people through the ceiling. Pretty fun, but now I think it should be fixed.

Im not sure if its a bug or not. Either way its damn funny defending A in gravelpit from below :D
 
Splash damage going through walls isn't a bug, its a feature, and a great one at that against turtles.
 
I'm just saying its intentional and I don't see any problem with it. Its not like this game is supposed to be ultra-realistic.
 
Agreed, I don't think I die as much as when I'm a pyro, because I'm always in the front lines right next to a group of enemies. I'm still practicing how to play him correctly though. But I think he's pretty balanced, just the burn time needs to be cut in half.
Seriously? I die most often while playing pyro because I frequently find myself diving into a pile of enemies with gun blazing
 
The biggest bug for me right now is the fact that I have to set my textures to Very High everytime I play. For some reason the Very High setting will not stick. It works while I'm playing but once I leave the game it reverts back to high.

I reported this a few times but nothing has been done? Has anyone else run into this problem?
 
The biggest bug for me right now is the fact that I have to set my textures to Very High everytime I play. For some reason the Very High setting will not stick. It works while I'm playing but once I leave the game it reverts back to high.

I reported this a few times but nothing has been done? Has anyone else run into this problem?
Yeah, I have the same issue and it's on the buglist on the forums. I just put mat_picmip -3 into my autoexec and it works fine now. Not quite as good as valve fixing the issue, but it achieves the same result.
 
Seriously? I die most often while playing pyro because I frequently find myself diving into a pile of enemies with gun blazing

Oops, I'm stupid, I meant I die more often as pyro like you :D

Excuse my brain fart.
 
Seriously? I die most often while playing pyro because I frequently find myself diving into a pile of enemies with gun blazing

Yep, I usually play pretty conservative (me=camping whore :p), but the only way to do really well with the pryo is to play like your life is completely pointless and you wanna die. :D


Nothing quite like charging into a group of 5 or 6 guys and watching them all run around screaming before dropping into a flaming pile of bodies. :D
 
camping is fine on defence, an offensive pyro needs to learn skills more complicated than just ambush, you need to be able to progress foward, most of my kills come from pissing people off with the shotgun until they move from a retreat to an attack, then you switch and set their face on fire.

Pyro is one of the best classes to uber with a medic, they dont have to reload and can just keep firing, the medic and pyro are both very fast classes so together they can catch up with enemies and torch them.

Today was another lame fest, attacking the 2nd point on the first section of dustbowl, I was the only person to actually make it onto the point, died there about 4 times, people just WILL NOT attack in this game, they hang back and dodge missiles and generally just wont move out of cover unless theres no enemies to attack them, it's so irritating, I think in the long run I'm going to have to accept that the majorety of players wont push up of their own accord. I found myself shouting at my screen today, "JUST HOLD W DOWN YOU IDIOTS AND MOVE FORWARD" left feeling I'd wasted the last 2 hours of my day :(
 
Hopefully, once more people have figured out playing on offense, the constant engineer porn will stop. I mean, turrets are part of the game, but if I wanted to constantly shoot at (or be shot at by) a bit of AI, I'd be playing something single player dammit.
 
Back
Top