MavericK
Zero Cool
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Doesn't sound like much of a nerf to me. Headshot multiplier was actually increased so it would seem they want to reward skilled play more than just spraying.
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agreed, I like the changes a lot, they kept head shot damage exactly where it was and lowered bodyshot damage making her a higher skill barrier but just as deadly if you were already good with her.Funny thing is I got a play of the game with her last night just noob sniping into a group of enemies rapidly with body shots and dropped 3-4 for of them in a few seconds. Felt dirty and satisfying at the same time lol
MavericK
Zero Cool
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Yeah, when I first started playing I chose her and it was insane how easily you can dominate if you are a halfway decent shot. Some of my very first thoughts in the game were, "Wow, this character seems kind of OP..."
5150Joker
Supreme [H]ardness
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Headshot multiplier was increased to 2.5x but per shot damage reduced so in the end headshot damage is the same. Point is there was no need to nerf body damage because widowmaker was far from OP.
MavericK
Zero Cool
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It seems that many people would disagree with that assertion.
Dreamerbydesign
Supreme [H]ardness
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I don't. I don't believe she is OP at all. Just like any other game, if someone is good at sniping, they generally run the map.
and that wont change, if your good at sniping she is absolutely no change but you cant use the sniper like a long range assault rifle just rapidly firing shots into their chest as effectively anymore
5150Joker
Supreme [H]ardness
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Problem with this is that the game ticks at 20 Hz and many times headshots don't register, it happened to me several times last night. So if they were going to nerf widowmaker they should have upped the tick rate to 60 Hz minimum to compensate. Pro games are custom which have 60 hz tick and that's where it may have been a bit OP in very select pro hands like surefour.
I'm almost level 70 and have never been shut down by an enemy widowmaker in pub games. This nerf was wholly unnecessary and they only did it because of no skilled Reddit whiners.
I keep forgetting this is the PC mainly thread. I play ps4 where you have to deal with auto aim on the snipers, body shots are an issue I find on the console and is certainly a welcome nerf so i cant fully comment on PC. Regardless I encourage anything that help discourage body shot snipers lol.
5150Joker
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I can't speak for consoles since I don't own one but on the PC side it wasn't OP like some think. I just wish Blizzard would do what is really needed by upping the tick rate, one of my friends already stopped playing because of it.
chockomonkey
[H]F Junkie
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Yea the 20 tick rate is a really bizarre choice on their part.
MavericK
Zero Cool
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They claim that "barely anyone uses the Custom 60 Hz mode, so it doesn't seem like it's that important to players"...which as I pointed out earlier is a BS excuse, people don't play custom because you don't get progression and XP for it.
More like they nerfed Widowmaker because she was released with none of the traditional trade-offs that a long-range one-hit KO character has in class-based games like this. Her rifle is semi-auto and doubles as an automatic weapon with DPS only slightly lower than S76 when dealing with close range enemies; she has an escape tool; a mine for damage/anti-flanking; doesn't have vision limited to her scope; has 200 health - same as most combat classes; and her ult utterly trivializes the gameplay of the opposing team while it's up, which is not obvious.
She charged too quickly and could land too many high-powered body shots in a small amount of time. Players could also abuse the scoping animation to move quickly while also remaining almost scoped and ready to shoot. Her ult charged up very quickly, likely because of the sheer damage she could dish out. Many sniper "mains" also made threads on reddit and the official forums discussing these points. I'm eager to see how this affects the gameplay overall.
5150Joker
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Yeah I saw Jeff Kaplan's interview with EuroGamer and that was as major cop out answer he gave. I think the real answer is they don't want to spend the money on servers and bandwidth.
5150Joker
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The only points I agree on (which they did nerf) are the quick scope charge and how quickly her ult became available because it seemed if you had two widowmaker's on a team, you basically had wallhacks the entire match.
PureBooYah
2[H]4U
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Tried to play Tracer as much as possible last night after the nerfs. Widows no longer were much of an issue for me and McCrees are no longer insta-death so I'm liking the changes so far. Although many of the McCrees I faced still would only FtH and rarely left click, so I don't think they realized it was nerfed yet. Could also have been habit. Survived a couple stuns too because they were too far away to land all FtH shots before I was able to recall.
MavericK
Zero Cool
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Yeah, I played as Widowmaker a bit and she is still strong. Just not obscene now.
MavericK
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Nah, he is pretty fun...I like using the shield and then smashing the shit out of everyone once they get up close. The dash move is cool as well...I managed to smash a couple of people off the edge of the map once and it ended up being PotG I think...hilarious.
I think her ult is the main problem. When it's up - and it's still up frequently on decent snipers - it totally screws over the opposing team in every imaginable way. You waste time taking flanking routes only to find that the person watched you the entire way and made the easiest headshot they lined up 2 seconds before you even left cover...super frustrating.
Her ult is mainly a problem in terms of knowing when it's up or not. You know when Junkrat's tire is coming, you know when Reaper starts up the blender, etc.
I still say the main problem is that she's both more effective(due to her SMG) and more survivable(due to her grapling hook) in CQB than Hanzo is. So she's more survivable/effective in CQB and she's more effective at long-range...why is Hanzo there at all? Hanzo is a bad pick in almost every case.
StoleMyOwnCar
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Hanzo's better for one thing. The play of the game. That's really about it, my friends and I call him the "POTG Machine". Because honestly that's about all most Hanzo's on my team actually ever manage to do. Hell I remember I did that once when I started. I just eventually got my ult up, fired it into a random wall in front of the obj, and then just sat there staring in another direction, doing nothing in particular.
4 kills, and POTG...
Yep. Didn't do jack squat the rest of the game. >_>;
I still kind of prefer him, too, though. He's also better at turret type deals because he can charge up his shot and then release it instantly and then go back into cover. Widow has to charge up her shot and stay in shooting range the entire time. So he has his uses. IMO what's kind of useless is his ability to climb. Maybe it's just me but unless I see someone aimbotting, Hanzo arrows are rarely easier to land from above. The person's overall effective hitbox becomes smaller when they're under you. Plus they're further away so arrow arching becomes a bigger issue. It's actually easier to hit someone on eye level with you. Well, to me anyway.
I don't really know what you mean by this, Widowmaker can charge, peek and shoot, and then fall back as well? Maybe I'd need to see it in action to understand, but I don't see Hanzo as being able to do anything in that regard that Widow can't. I get what you're saying about high/low angles reducing effective hitbox size, and that does make sense to me. Hanzo's wall climb is definitely not as good as Widowmaker's grappling hook, either for getting to a good position or for escaping a bad one.
StoleMyOwnCar
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Basically he doesn't really need as much vision towards a stationary target. If he knows where it is, he can peek out from cover for literally 0.5 seconds and fire an arrow and then hide instantly. Widow can kind of do similarly, but imo isn't as flexible.
I just tried out the brawl today for the first time with some friends... got gold in almost everything and also play of the game... when it comes to pure FPS, I'm pretty good.
I just tried out the brawl today for the first time with some friends... got gold in almost everything and also play of the game... when it comes to pure FPS, I'm pretty good.
tehslippery
Gawd
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The problem with Widowmaker before the change was she could 1 shot Tracer and Zenyatta with a body shot. I think Widow is still in perfectly good shape. I'm glad they changed the quick scope shit, fuck that. I can still completely dominate on Widow if my team is good. Shit like holding Gibraltar before the first checkpoint vs competent teams including streamers and stuff
I really like Hanzo, he plays much different than widow maker and is very good at ducking in and out of a corner taking shots at players. He's very strong in the medium range where widow maker shines at long range (Obvisouly they can both work in close range as well) Here's one of my potg from last night on the ps4 that shows he is a really strong assault character
Drawmonster
2[H]4U
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Definite hit box problems with this game. People get 1 shot kills with Hanzo way too easily. You should actually have to hit someone in the head, not just shoot in the area. I've seen multiple "plays of the game" with Hanzo that clearly shows people just getting close, and getting credited for the kill.
no arguments here, I like Hanzo because he destroys bastion and torbjorn which are usualy what screws over the attackers but it is way to easy to get head shots with him. I think that game I walked away with 9 head shot kills lol
chockomonkey
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Is there even a reticle in for Hanzo? Or... you just fire your arrow toward the enemy and it kills them? lol
TheMadHatterXxX
2[H]4U
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The Hanzo autoaim arrows that can hit anything across the map because the target hitboxes are giant is bullshit and needs to be nerfed. Also nerf Tracer's ammo from 40 to 30.
TheMadHatterXxX
2[H]4U
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You fire the arrow at someones general direction and it magically hits them all the time, it's mildly infuriating especially when it kills you and you're already behind cover on the killcam. If they're going to keep that bullshit atleast add some drop over distance to the arrow trajectory to make it require some skill.
The game is addicting fun and the only thing I play now but there's just so many times I've literally yelled out WHAT THE FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK only to have my parrot stare at me wondering if I'm spazzing out.
Another fun trick with hanzo if you can pull it off is using your scatter arrow to destroy people, if your above them fire the scatter just at their feet, if you do it right and land it just infront of their feet most of them will bounce forward and obliterate someone.
chockomonkey
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Yea that'd bug the shit outa me... and blizz is trying to make this game competitive?
Coming from Q3A days, that does sound infuriating. If i get owned, I want it to be because my opponent is that friggin good and he just made a big play... not because the hitboxes are huge lol
crusty_juggler
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I made a .gif
Except he's really not strong in the medium range. You know who's strong in medium range? S76 and Mccree(and Pharah I guess, but she's completely different). There's a reason Hanzo NEVER gets picked in competitive, and it's because if you want a sniper Widowmaker is just flat-out the better pick. When I say "never" I mean that literally, no competitive teams ever pick Hanzo except as an actual joke. If he's such a strong character then why is that? Mei has a similar problem to be honest, but the difference there is she's not competing with a character that's essentially a better version of herself.
I can't comment on the competitive scene as I don't follow it but considering hanzo can 1 shot both of those at medium range its going to depend on the player. Really its just my opinion but I find hanzo does very well at medium since enemies don't have time to react to pop shots when you appear around a corner and fire at them. It will be interesting to see what it looks like in the top tiers when actual ranked matches come out.
I guess, but I see no reason to expect that a hero that never gets picked at the current top-levels of play will suddenly be getting picked in public competitive play. Hanzo is simply sub-par in any role you might want him to fill. In medium range there are several better heroes, at long range Widowmaker is flat-out the better pick, and I can't imagine why you'd want to use Hanzo as a close-range flanker. In terms of counters, anything Hanzo might counter will be better countered by someone else. Hanzo is in a bad place right now, and it's at least *partly* due to how good Widowmaker is but also because Hanzo's mechanics need to be re-thought.
I get what you're saying but as I've pointed out, Hanzo is already never picked at high levels of play. If you gave him tight hitboxes then how do you buff him in a meaningful way so that he's actually worth playing at all? I don't see how you do that.
She would be useless, that would be 180 damage for an entire mag dump point blank.
5150Joker
Supreme [H]ardness
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Speed up his arrows a little bit and give him a bit more HP in trade for tighter hitboxes. Because the way they are right now is pretty ridiculous.