*Official* Norco data storage products thread

@treadstone, my pleasure:

From the front:
photostream


LHS handle (from the top -- power, NIC2, NIC1, power switch, reset switch)
photostream


RHS handle:
photostream
 
I just purchased the Norco 4220 3 weeks ago..

From.....

I just realized newegg only carries OEM, and Newegg just pointed that out to me telling me they can't do anything for me on getting the correct screws and I have no idea what size screws I need to search for as Norco isn't even replying to my e-mails. This comment below tells me that I may not have to buy anything..so I am trying to be a little more patient. Just wondering if anyone has done this recently, received screws from Norco


there should've been two bags of screws - one with screws for motherboard mounting with some extra standoffs, and the other bag with just screws for the HDD caddies. if its missing or if you need extra then Norco will usually send them out free.
 
From.....

I just realized newegg only carries OEM, and Newegg just pointed that out to me telling me they can't do anything for me on getting the correct screws and I have no idea what size screws I need to search for as Norco isn't even replying to my e-mails. This comment below tells me that I may not have to buy anything..so I am trying to be a little more patient. Just wondering if anyone has done this recently, received screws from Norco

I haven't dealt with Norco directly, but there are places that will sell you the Norco drive tray screws for fairly cheap. I don't have the link handy but it's floating around this forum (maybe even this thread) somewhere. Supermicro uses identical screws for its drive trays (at least my 5-in-3 rack anyway). I think they're pretty standard for hotswap trays.

Obviously Norco should send you the screws for free since it's their mistake, but even if you had the full screw kit it's not a bad idea to order an extra supply of tray screws anyway since they're so easy to lose.
 
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Hey guys, anyone know the approximate CPU heatsink clearance in a Norco RPC-4224?

Trying to spec a build and have a couple tower heatsinks lying around I'd like to use, but not sure if they'll fit... The whole case is about 178 mm tall, so it's got to be at most 160 mm, but that's right around the height of a bunch of my coolers, so I'm at a loss.


Thanks to anyone who can help out.
 
@Parcifal: NP...

@DeathRay: Don't see any reason not to go with the SuperMicro expansion chassis. If you go the build-your-own route, you usually have a bit more flexibility in picking the components you want and it's usually a bit cheaper, however the SuperMicro chassis should guarantee that all parts within the chassis actually work flawlessly together (although that's not always the case either, do a google search on the chassis model number to see of any potential issues with it).

@shousto2: Thanks for the pictures! So that's what the new 4224 looks like :)
It's nice to see they moved the controls to the front especially the LEDs so they are easier to see, however I am a bit disappointed that they removed the HDD activity LED from the LHS controls as I use an internal HDD (SSD) as the boot drive and used the HDD activity LED to indicate when the system is accessing the internal drive... Oh well, maybe in the next revision of the 4224...

@e2g: Mike at norcotek dot com is usually pretty fast in replying to emails. Try him again... And I also think they should send you the screws for free since it's clearly their mistake!

@Gilbo: I went through the same excersie and IIRC, the CPU cooler needs to be around 150mm or less. I do remember that 160mm was too tall and unfortunately, most 'tower' coolers are around 160mm... There are only a few that are less than that.
 
Hey guys, anyone know the approximate CPU heatsink clearance in a Norco RPC-4224?

Trying to spec a build and have a couple tower heatsinks lying around I'd like to use, but not sure if they'll fit... The whole case is about 178 mm tall, so it's got to be at most 160 mm, but that's right around the height of a bunch of my coolers, so I'm at a loss.


Thanks to anyone who can help out.

Yes you`re right , most tower coolers wont fit into a 4U case
pretty bad that this kind of coolers are not designed for 4U chassis.
But there are a few horizontal towers who perform quite well , just very close to the performance of 160 mm desktop towers.
Look at Noctua NH-C12P SE14 for example, they are well tested and perform very well.
They wont block the much airflow needed through the case and it has 140mm fan
which let you make your system as quite as posible.
I have one here waiting for the Norco 4220 .
 
@shousto2: Thanks for the pictures! So that's what the new 4224 looks like :)
It's nice to see they moved the controls to the front especially the LEDs so they are easier to see, however I am a bit disappointed that they removed the HDD activity LED from the LHS controls as I use an internal HDD (SSD) as the boot drive and used the HDD activity LED to indicate when the system is accessing the internal drive... Oh well, maybe in the next revision of the 4224...

Pics = no problem at all. FWIW -- the connectors for the NIC fit the HDD signal pins on the mobo -- mine is flashing cheerfully away. Although depends if you intend to utilize the NIC lamps for intended purpose or not.
 
Hey treadstone,

Regarding the 4224 backplanes, you wrote:

The additional cable needed to make this work on the Norco 4224 backplanes requires a dedicated wire for each LED. There is a 10 pin header on each board. So you would need 6 x 10 to get all LEDs connected to your controller/expander.

I'm trying to identify this 10-pin header from the backplane pictures I've seen, but I'm having a hard time getting to it. Is it the white connector towards the right side of the backplane?

Also, have you been able to try these 10-pin headers at all? In other words, do you have error LEDs working on your 4224?

Thanks!
 
On my 4224 (v1 I think) it is a 2x5 set of pins on an open black header located at the right when viewed from the back. From left to right I have: molex, molex, SAS, 2x5 pins.
 
On my 4224 (v1 I think) it is a 2x5 set of pins on an open black header located at the right when viewed from the back. From left to right I have: molex, molex, SAS, 2x5 pins.

Thanks, agheno. I was trying to identify them from some of the pictures I've seen but I couldn't find them. I'm wondering now if the DS-24E, which comes ready to go, has those pins hooked up to the expander somehow.
 
I just got my Norco 4224 the other day and took some pics of the backplane.



I'm assuming treadstone was talking about the 2x5 header labeled as J1 on the very left.
 
Hi,

I just put together my 4th NORCO RPC-4224 case (for myself) -- I have two bad ports (one port on two different backplanes) -- has there been any QA issues now or in the past with backplanes?
 
Not really but people have gotten bad backplanes in the past.

Jus email mike at norcotek dot com
He will take care of it.
 
tnx Dreamnid for the picture !
it looks there are some posibilitys, maybe also for the unsoldered J4 header.
The white 3-pin header exactly looks like an I2C header as i have on my 2740 Highpoint controller , even the text at the pins are the same .
so maybe communication can work with this or its just only a unused header.
It seems we all have to find out ourself as Norco keeps it all in mistery the diferent parts and versions.
Multimeter and solderiron could help us out lol
 
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I just got my Norco 4224 the other day and took some pics of the backplane.
[...]
I'm assuming treadstone was talking about the 2x5 header labeled as J1 on the very left.

Thanks Dreamnid! Those are very hard to see on some of the other pictures I've seen.

So, there are 10 pins there. Each backplane handles 4 HDDs so we would only really need either 4 pins (common ground pulled from somewhere else) or 8 pins. I wonder if these are really for the error LEDs.

As Parcifal pointed out, the J4 header has 8 pins. Could that one be the one for the error LEDs?

Hey treadstone, care to chime in? I'm curious about how you determined the activity LED is actually bicolor. Did you get it to turn it red? Was it through the J1 header as shown in Dreamnid's picture?

Thanks!
 
What I can tell you is that the left most pair of pins for J1 is not used so it is really a 2x4 header.

I was going to try to connect power to the J1 header to see what happens, but I need a way to power the trigger uC that is connected to it. I'm assuming it's powered by the mini-sas connector.
 
I asked Highpoint about some more info about the led pins on there cards
but indeed they keep it secret , not telling more than we can read in the manual

==>Dear Sir or Madam,

Sorry for the inconvenience,our product only provide the leds pins not cables,you need to consult the reseller.
Here is the link for the manual,maybe it will give you some help

<==


i just got my Norco 4220 , i could pick it up from the Norco resseller in Holland , they are now in stock a couple of them but they wont be in stock for long i guess they go fast
have to get it out my car yet and see how things are look like

case checkt and seems all ok , included lots of screws and pieces metal
i will try to keep fotoseesions during my build
if some one needs special foto form some part ... now the case is still empty and i can make some

got busy with the 120 fan wall and cut an extra hole in it for some more cable routing
i put the fans on the mainboard side of the wall so now there`s enough space to bend easy the SAS cables.
The slimline DVD drive isnt easy to fix exactly in center of the hole in front,
the only 2 screws are on the backside of the DVD drive and on front the drive rest on it`s CD door so tha open and close will not going well as it should be,
there should be really a need of more screws, but i did fix it with some plastic sheets under the drive which rest onto the HDD trays and glue it together.
I dont know for other drives but i use a Sony Optiarc 7713.
more problems i havnt found yet , but both the rear fans are realy loud (as expected) but airflow is havy.
 
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@dreamnid: Thanks for the picture, have to find my pictures of the 4224 backplane...
Also, I assume the little 'uC' chip you are referring to (on the backside of the backplane right behind J1) is powered via the Molex power connectors and one of the 3.3V regulator chips (IIRC it's slot 1 that powers this chip). It's not a uC, it's a hex schmitt-trigger inverter.

@DarthRay: I'll give you an explanation/function description of the J1 pins tomorrow. I just returned from a one week vacation and I'm rather tired right now. I can tell you that the I2C connections from the white 3 pin header only go to the non populated sideband controller chip on the backplane. So connecting anything to it will do absolutely nothing for you!
 
@DarthRay: I'll give you an explanation/function description of the J1 pins tomorrow. I just returned from a one week vacation and I'm rather tired right now. I can tell you that the I2C connections from the white 3 pin header only go to the non populated sideband controller chip on the backplane. So connecting anything to it will do absolutely nothing for you!

Welcome back. Hope you had a good time. Roger that, take your time.

Thanks!
 
After a big job with my 4220 now everything runs fine , i did run into some problems but all fixed, there were lots of disks not detected, but finnaly found out that some SAS connectors are not far enough into the header on the backplanes , they need to go a far way in and it wont go very smooth.
I have some litle points for Norco what can be done better ,

1-need Information with the chassis
2-package of the screws can be better, instead of the very small plastic bags, there might be a real good solution in some kind of plastic box or so.
3-I missing a bracket or something to fix SSD`s , it will be fine if something is included, or at least some posibility`s on the extra HDD bracket to mount SSD`s too.
4-Some wiring from the front leds are different than most cases, where normally black wires are ground here black wires are positive leads for leds, all this small things can help to save the user lots of time.
5-It might be an good idea to use thumbscrews for the toppanel instead of the very small srews.
6-The front hole and bracket for the slimline DVD drive can be better, with my drive it was only posible to fasten with the 2 screws on the backside of the drive, the front door just rest in place into the fronthole of the chassis, the result is the the door wont open and close easely, i think there is a need for a support under the dvd drive to keep it stable at good position into the fronthole.

Okay thats for now so far and for the rest i am very satisfied with this chassis !
 
Got my RPC-4224 installed, 3TBx 24 HDD

61TB RAID-6 and Intel 510 SSD that does ~500MiB/s Read (250GB version 6Gbps)
$ df -h
/dev/sdb1 61T 34M 61T 1% /r1
 
@treadstone: Doh! I feel like an idiot. I don't know why I completely forgot about the molex being the primary power source. And yes, I meant ic. Stupid finger memory typing uC :).

If you guys want any more pics of the backplane, let me know!
 
@dreamnid: Thanks for the picture, have to find my pictures of the 4224 backplane...
Also, I assume the little 'uC' chip you are referring to (on the backside of the backplane right behind J1) is powered via the Molex power connectors and one of the 3.3V regulator chips (IIRC it's slot 1 that powers this chip). It's not a uC, it's a hex schmitt-trigger inverter.

@DarthRay: I'll give you an explanation/function description of the J1 pins tomorrow. I just returned from a one week vacation and I'm rather tired right now. I can tell you that the I2C connections from the white 3 pin header only go to the non populated sideband controller chip on the backplane. So connecting anything to it will do absolutely nothing for you!

I really would really like it if you could investigate the J1 pins ,
i might get some test too if i can find here a test cable with 8 pin and see what it gives.
indeed the I2C header shouldnt do anything as the parts are missing
at my 4220 all the populated drivebays have a green glow led , and at rear times i see quick the bleu on flashing.
I still thinking of a solution to can even my controller get work with leds , but the problem is it gives 3,25 volt output but very weak , power drops down to 1 volt or so when i add a led to it , i need something like optocouplers with very sentivity input at not more than about 10ma and than create a circuit on the output with external power to get all leds working.
The problem is i need 32 optocouplers , not easy at all to make this small.
I think of using the 4N35 optocoupler but maybe there are better ones ...
i dont know how to search for this what i need.
anyway i look forwards to get this mod working, always nice to design something
even if some leds on the Norco already working a double check is very cool -)
I guess the intention from Highpoint is to make in future status led displays with integrated led drivers to save the cost with extra driver parts on the controllers themself.
 
I have a new 4224 and all of the green power LED's initially tested good.

I only use rows 1, 5 and 6. After a few weeks of operation I noticed one of the green LED's was not lit, although the drive works normally.

Out of curiosity I tested all 24 slots and found that 6 LED's do not lite up even though the drive functions normally. 5 of the extinguished LED's are on rows 2, 3, and 4 which have never been used.

Does anyone have a suggestion as to the problem.

I doubt if it's a power problem because I use a top of the line single rail power supply and a 1200 watt UPS for power protection.
 
I have a new 4224 and all of the green power LED's initially tested good.

I only use rows 1, 5 and 6. After a few weeks of operation I noticed one of the green LED's was not lit, although the drive works normally.

Out of curiosity I tested all 24 slots and found that 6 LED's do not lite up even though the drive functions normally. 5 of the extinguished LED's are on rows 2, 3, and 4 which have never been used.

Does anyone have a suggestion as to the problem.

I doubt if it's a power problem because I use a top of the line single rail power supply and a 1200 watt UPS for power protection.

Try moving the backplanes around to see what happens. I am in a similar boat but not as bad.
 
It could be a mechanical problem as the led`s must transport the light along the drive to the front , they maybe not line up or the leds were to close to the drive and were cracked.
i guess you need to messure the leds .
Its no powerproblem when all the drives running fine , leds dont really need much power .
 
@Parcifal: No need for opto couplers. The voltages you are reading/measuring are about correct (depends on the resistor used on your HBA and the LED you used for testing).

If I have some time tonight, I'll see if I can draw you a quick schematic of the J1 connector and how they designed the error led circuit.

@BigXor: The 4224 backplane uses a dual P-Channel Mosfet transistor to control the +5V and +12V power to each slot individually. Pin 5 of each SATA power connector is used to control the Mosfet as well as the green power LED. If you insert a HDD into the power connector, the drive will pull pin 5 low (to ground) and turn on the Mosfet transistor as well as the power LED.

There could be a few reasons why the green power LED isn't working:

1) the LED is damaged
2) cold solder joint on either the LED or the current limit resistor for this particular LED
3) the 3.3V regulator for this HDD on the backplane is damaged or has a cold solder joint
4) the LED is misaligned (in which case you may see a faint amount of green light at the front of the HDD caddy)

Hope this helps.
 
@war9200: how do you get to 61TB with 24 x 3TB drives in RAID6 ???
Shouldn't that be 66TB?
Also, I would suggest you change your setup as running 24 drives in RAID6 is still risky...
 
@war9200: how do you get to 61TB with 24 x 3TB drives in RAID6 ???
Shouldn't that be 66TB?

df -h reads in TiB, but it should be closer to 60TiB than 61TiB, so I'm not sure.

df -H reads in TB

df -B1 would be interesting to see the exact bytes.

The 3TB drives are usually 3000592982016 Bytes. 22 of them would be 66.0130TB = 60.0385TiB = 61,479.4GiB
 
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@BigXor: The 4224 backplane uses a dual P-Channel Mosfet transistor to control the +5V and +12V power to each slot individually. Pin 5 of each SATA power connector is used to control the Mosfet as well as the green power LED. If you insert a HDD into the power connector, the drive will pull pin 5 low (to ground) and turn on the Mosfet transistor as well as the power LED.

There could be a few reasons why the green power LED isn't working:

1) the LED is damaged
2) cold solder joint on either the LED or the current limit resistor for this particular LED
3) the 3.3V regulator for this HDD on the backplane is damaged or has a cold solder joint
4) the LED is misaligned (in which case you may see a faint amount of green light at the front of the HDD caddy)

Hope this helps.

I was hoping you would notice my problem, I read in a previous post that you took the time to draw a schematic.

I am an engineer and will now know what to inspect without having to take the afternoon to reverse engineer the board.

Thanks!!
 
@war9200: how do you get to 61TB with 24 x 3TB drives in RAID6 ???
Shouldn't that be 66TB?
Also, I would suggest you change your setup as running 24 drives in RAID6 is still risky...

Listen to this guy, there is a good chance that one drive will fail in a few years and the on rebuild 2 drives will fail and you will lose the lot.
 
I did try to find out some things on the J1 connector,
i messured on a few pins +5 volt between the upper en lowere pins but on all backplanes there are diferences it seems , some pins dont give 5 volt but very low voltage and my meter seems not to handle it , there might be data signal on that pins ?
i can say now what is what because there are so many differences i messured on drive filled backplanes and on empty too.
really need schematic how things are connected i cant find out with only voltage readings

after a tip i could find something interesting , my 2740 controller seems to use negative led outputs, thats why it was working reverse -) with signal the led did go of
but found out i need to route the negative wire from the leds to the SDA pin on the 3 pin I2C pins which is just in same row as the led pins ,
i guess this is the right way it should be as the leds now can function very normal and brightness is ok , my meter isnt fast enough to the high frequency on the pin
but it reach over 1,6 volt in top and seems to be stable to handle 20ma leds.
now i need to redesign my ledprint , i did solder all [-] together but now i need all [+] together lol
dont mind have holiday -0 cheers
 
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Hey guys, anyone know the approximate CPU heatsink clearance in a Norco RPC-4224?

Trying to spec a build and have a couple tower heatsinks lying around I'd like to use, but not sure if they'll fit... The whole case is about 178 mm tall, so it's got to be at most 160 mm, but that's right around the height of a bunch of my coolers, so I'm at a loss.


Thanks to anyone who can help out.

I asked myself this same question. Unfortunately the answer is NO. Here is my thread to back it up Looks like the pictures in my last post are all dead, but you could clearly see the HSF sticking out of the case with the lid off.

If your looking for the best heatsink for a 4u case, FrostyTech.com is pretty awesome for heatsink reviews. Back when I originally posted that thread, the Thermolab BADA was the best heatsink that I knew would fit with room to spare, but now it looks like the Noctua NH-C14 is the new king for low profile cooling.

If you want the absolute best low profile cooling and dont mind spending $90 get the Noctua NH-C14, otherwise the Thermolab BADA can be had for about $40-45.
 
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anyone using the RPC-450 or RPC-470 as their main desktop chassis? I'm getting a rack and would like to put everything in it, so considering moving my main computer from my trusty P182 to a 4U RPC-450 or RPC-470

would have to get a new CPU cooler though and I just spent $90 on a HR-02 :(

also concerned about noise, it doesn't look like there is a 120mm fan bracket for the RPC-470 like the 4220 and 4224
 
anyone using the RPC-450 or RPC-470 as their main desktop chassis? I'm getting a rack and would like to put everything in it, so considering moving my main computer from my trusty P182 to a 4U RPC-450 or RPC-470

would have to get a new CPU cooler though and I just spent $90 on a HR-02 :(

also concerned about noise, it doesn't look like there is a 120mm fan bracket for the RPC-470 like the 4220 and 4224

I am like a week away from getting my desktop pc, currently inside an antec 300, into the RPC-470. Just waiting on some rails from newegg. I do not know if a 120mm bracket is available for the RPC-470, but its not that loud in my opinion.

Where is your rack going to be? is it an open frame rack? enclosed?. If your using an open frame rack in your living room next to your TV your going to have to bump up the volume a notch or two.

In regards to the CPU cooler see the post i made just before yours. That is your answer.
 
I am like a week away from getting my desktop pc, currently inside an antec 300, into the RPC-470. Just waiting on some rails from newegg. I do not know if a 120mm bracket is available for the RPC-470, but its not that loud in my opinion.

Where is your rack going to be? is it an open frame rack? enclosed?. If your using an open frame rack in your living room next to your TV your going to have to bump up the volume a notch or two.

In regards to the CPU cooler see the post i made just before yours. That is your answer.
can you breifly explain how rails work? I guess most cases don't come with them?
this is the rack I'm getting
http://www.provantage.com/startech-4postrack36~7STR919V.htm

it will be in the living room (I live in a small apt) so I definitely want something quiet and will be replacing the fans

I saw your post about CPU coolers that's why I said I knew I'd need a new one
 
I have a new 4224 and all of the green power LED's initially tested good.

I only use rows 1, 5 and 6. After a few weeks of operation I noticed one of the green LED's was not lit, although the drive works normally.

Out of curiosity I tested all 24 slots and found that 6 LED's do not lite up even though the drive functions normally. 5 of the extinguished LED's are on rows 2, 3, and 4 which have never been used.

Does anyone have a suggestion as to the problem.

I doubt if it's a power problem because I use a top of the line single rail power supply and a 1200 watt UPS for power protection.

@Parcifal: No need for opto couplers. The voltages you are reading/measuring are about correct (depends on the resistor used on your HBA and the LED you used for testing).

If I have some time tonight, I'll see if I can draw you a quick schematic of the J1 connector and how they designed the error led circuit.

@BigXor: The 4224 backplane uses a dual P-Channel Mosfet transistor to control the +5V and +12V power to each slot individually. Pin 5 of each SATA power connector is used to control the Mosfet as well as the green power LED. If you insert a HDD into the power connector, the drive will pull pin 5 low (to ground) and turn on the Mosfet transistor as well as the power LED.

There could be a few reasons why the green power LED isn't working:

1) the LED is damaged
2) cold solder joint on either the LED or the current limit resistor for this particular LED
3) the 3.3V regulator for this HDD on the backplane is damaged or has a cold solder joint
4) the LED is misaligned (in which case you may see a faint amount of green light at the front of the HDD caddy)

Hope this helps.

After close inspection and troubleshooting I have determined that vibration is causing cold solder joints under the LED's to fail. The failures are most prevalent on the BP's that are not populated by HDD's (6 to 1)

Now I must decide whether to RMA the backplanes and risk the same situation or re-engineer the circuit to be more robust.

The circuit is simple, the fix is simple, but it will void the warranty. (I would also like to increase the intensity of the blue LED's)
 
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can you breifly explain how rails work? I guess most cases don't come with them?
this is the rack I'm getting
http://www.provantage.com/startech-4postrack36~7STR919V.htm

it will be in the living room (I live in a small apt) so I definitely want something quiet and will be replacing the fans

I saw your post about CPU coolers that's why I said I knew I'd need a new one

I have limited experience with racks in general, but I can tell you what I used. I purchased these Norco RL-26 rails from newegg. *Warning* newegg shipped me the wrong item twice, currently talking to a customer service rep to resolve. I would order someplace else until newegg resolves this issue with me. *Warning*
The cabinet I am using is XrackPro2 (Found on craigslist for $400). I am using the RPC-470 and RPC-4220, both fit nicely with the RL-26 rails.

As for a heatsink, I am still waiting on the rails from newegg before I can move my main PC into the RPC-470. Till then I will continue using my Xigmatek Dark Knight. I dont think I can justify spending 90 bucks on the Noctua NH-C14, but that really is the perfect HSF for the job. The thermolab BADA 2010 is a lackluster second place.
 
i am using the Noctua NH-C12P SE14 right now into the Norco 4220 and works very well
its just leaves a few mm space from the PSU but the PSU has there the airinput with fan
so i guess it wont be a problem , other mainboards might be having another layout that leaves a bit more space free between PSU and this cooler.
I am more than satisfied with the big 140mm fan from Noctua on this cooler , it makes very less noise even there are 2 resistor shunts were in the package i dont need them to lower the speed.
one thing i might need to find out is whats the best position for the fan , blow to the heatsink or suck the air out of it , i think the first as now my PSU working together sucking air form the case through the 140 mm fan and heatsink through the PSU to outside the chassis.
also the 2x 80 mm fan on backside of the chassis take part getting hot air out.

as for the leds which wont work ; i would just take that backplanes out the case and resolder them , i save you problems and waiting for new backplanes.
if you are a bit handy with soldering it wont go bad and easy job.
For the intensity of the bleu leds (dual color bleu-red) it might be more difficult as resistors are smd
and need to know specification of the leds too , it maybe can also be changed meachnical to get more light directly into the fiber channel on the side of the HDD caddys, they might be too far from the led.
i havent study that yet.

pic.php
 
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