Official BenQ FP241W Thread !!! Info, Pictures, Reviews

I don't know if this has been brought up before, but I was reading over the Dell forums to see if the banding trouble I had when I owned a 2407 (for a short time) were corrected or if the 2707 had similar problems. However, to my dismay I stumbled upon a thread by a user poking fun at the BenQ FP241W for having (worse) banding troubles of its own. The user cited this thread on another forum where two users reported similar banding:

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=526319&p=24#r470

I guess I was hoping the FP241(series) would actually pull through in this particular area as it was the reason I got rid of my 2047 and have been waiting on this monitor series for so long.

(Does anyone here know any monitor 24-inch and over that doesn't have banding? :confused: )
 
Typhoon84 said:
I don't know if this has been brought up before, but I was reading over the Dell forums to see if the banding trouble I had when I owned a 2407 (for a short time) were corrected or if the 2707 had similar problems. However, to my dismay I stumbled upon a thread by a user poking fun at the BenQ FP241W for having (worse) banding troubles of its own. The user cited this thread on another forum where two users reported similar banding:

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=526319&p=24#r470

I guess I was hoping the FP241(series) would actually pull through in this particular area as it was the reason I got rid of my 2047 and have been waiting on this monitor series for so long.

(Does anyone here know any monitor 24-inch and over that doesn't have banding? :confused: )
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BenQ FP241W has no banding issues, the colour reproduction is superb! I think you will find that you are getting confused between "Banding and Gradation"
 
bugeyes said:
BenQ FP241W has no banding issues, the colour reproduction is superb! I think you will find that you are getting confused between "Banding and Gradation"
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Care to clarify the difference? I've heard the two terms used interchangeably, I didn't realize there was a distinction.
 
I have used the Dell 2407 extensively and this is what I have found:

1. The colors are slightly more washed vis-a-vis the BenQ. Nothing really stands out - nothing jumps out at you.

2. The BenQ is significantly brighter than probably any 24" on the market today. While this can be viewed as a negative aspect, I would much rather have a brighter monitor than one that cannot get bright enough. The Dell is not as bright as the BenQ, but has a nice glow.

3. The 2407 I used had significant banding issues and could not hold a candle to video playback relative to the BenQ. The Dell seemed to lack almost every aspect when compared to the BenQ in video. The BenQ (Mine, at least), has no banding issues whatsoever (its brand new) and no discernable issues with pixel bleeding.

4. I have used a Nintendo Wii and Playstation 2 on the 2407. The Wii looked nice on the Dell, it wasnt as sharp as I would have liked to have seen. The PS2 was blurry and quite fuzzy (Guitar Hero). I have yet to try the Wii and PS2 on my BenQ, but I will follow up once I do (The Wii arrived two days ago).

All in all, the Dell is a nice 24" monitor and looks pretty good when used solely for computer work, but once you compare it head on head with the BenQ it really doesnt stand a chance. I cant say anything about the Samsung, but with my experience I suggest you stay away from the Dell for now and go with a BenQ.

Oh, and to clarify something I have been seeing lately. Many of you have commented that the BenQ appears to be made of cheap plastic: Well, yes, it is made of plastic, but it is very smooth and heavy - solid as a rock. The Dell on the other hand is the epitome of cheap plastic - feeling thin and as low-grade as their smaller flat panels feel.

Would I suggest the Samsung over the BenQ? I cant say. I think the two are about even based on reviews I have read - I guess it all just comes down to price. Honestly, you cannot justify the extra $100 or so you have to pay to get a Samsung - the difference is just not there IMHO.
 
bugeyes said:
BenQ FP241W has no banding issues, the colour reproduction is superb! I think you will find that you are getting confused between "Banding and Gradation"
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Regardless of the term I used, what I was describing could have been figured out pretty quickly. The 'gradation' problem that is being described, is it widespread like the 2407, or a defect only some people experience?
 
Typhoon84 said:
Regardless of the term I used, what I was describing could have been figured out pretty quickly. The 'gradation' problem that is being described, is it widespread like the 2407, or a defect only some people experience?
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If you read the link he posted - gradation is not an "problem", it's completely correct output. Similar to when you have really nice speakers and you can tell when an MP3 is only encoded in 128 or 192 kbps.

He also stated that the BenQ has no banding issues.
 
It's described as non-ideal. Sure when you have great speakers and poor sound files it sounds 'equally bad' as it would on a poor set of speakers, but this seems to be a case of the monitor being 'too accurate' or something along those lines which is causing more trouble than being beneficial to the user. I don't understand this is an explanation for the horrible gradient tests picture in the linked thread.

I'm not trying to be rude, and it might sound infinitely stupid, but this doesn't make that much sense to me. Perhaps this is a case of something as silly as poorly encoded video on some blu-ray discs I have causing the video to look more noise-speckled and annoying than a regular DVD version... I guess this one is just going over my head.
 
Let me quote the actual text to try and keep this in context... "It's very common on high-contrast LCDs. While not necessarily ideal, the display is doing what it is told. There is not supposed to be smooth transitions between the color bars, on an LCD or CRT"... end of quote.

I'm not presumptuous enough to say what the original author meant by the phrase “not necessarily ideal" but I interpret it to mean "nothing is ever 100% perfect in the real world"

I've used pro spec LCD and CRT monitors from Eizo and Sony for photographic printing and retouching (I worked in a photographic lab for many years), and can confirm that the high end LCDs have shown the gradation effect. After all the monitor is just displaying what's there in the software.
 
What's going on is that the bars are each shade on the gradient

The monitor is so accurate that you can see the transition between shade 123 and 124.

So all that the "gradient effect" is, is that the display is so accurate you can clearly see each bar of the gradient.

A low quality display will not display accurately enough for you to see the gradients bars, thus making it lower quality.

This accuracy does *not* pertain to just the bars, it also means everything else that your display shows will be shown with a high amount of accuracy.
 
The thing that doesn't make sense to me is why they create something well enough that is bound to show the flaws in everything. The context in which you quoted doesn't change the fact that the implementation of this technology is not ideal, especially on a consumer level display where the ultimate goal is user experience.

I personally am not against the FP241W series, but I was interested in this monitor greatly and to see someone post images of a relatively standard gradient test, which looks fine on many monitors including a few terrible ones, and have it look terrible on a high-end consumer display is cause for concern.

If you want to go back to the speaker example by another user, you don't want your speakers to amplify the flaws in the sound files, thus why these rather good z5500s have all the Dobly tricks on them to create 5.1 even on standard sound tracks. Sure, it isn't the 100% experience of surround at its best, nor is it loyal to the 2.1 or whatever encoding of the song, but it produces a good end-user experience.

What I am concerned about is the design of this monitors accuracy causing more problems then good for the end-user who is just looking to have nice image quality, even if it means a little bit of inaccuracy, Is it so ridiculous to want the monitor to make the experience quality?

In regards to your interpretation (bugeyes) of the quote, it certainly doesn't mean that "[..] nothing is ever 100% perfect in the real world." It is referring to something which could be better, and isn't making excuses for it beyond the non-deal implementation. I do think we are debating apples to oranges though; as you are staying on the side of accuracy and precision, and I am just looking for the best user experience I can get, Ideally they would come together, but I'm getting the impression that that isn't the case.


Edit: I understand the low quality display part, but in the sense of user experience I question whether there is sacrificing occurring for the sake of obscene accuracy.
 
Typhoon84 said:
The thing that doesn't make sense to me is why they create something well enough that is bound to show the flaws in everything. The context in which you quoted doesn't change the fact that the implementation of this technology is not ideal, especially on a consumer level display where the ultimate goal is user experience.

I personally am not against the FP241W series, but I was interested in this monitor greatly and to see someone post images of a relatively standard gradient test, which looks fine on many monitors including a few terrible ones, and have it look terrible on a high-end consumer display is cause for concern.

If you want to go back to the speaker example by another user, you don't want your speakers to amplify the flaws in the sound files, thus why these rather good z5500s have all the Dobly tricks on them to create 5.1 even on standard sound tracks. Sure, it isn't the 100% experience of surround at its best, nor is it loyal to the 2.1 or whatever encoding of the song, but it produces a good end-user experience.

What I am concerned about is the design of this monitors accuracy causing more problems then good for the end-user who is just looking to have nice image quality, even if it means a little bit of inaccuracy, Is it so ridiculous to want the monitor to make the experience quality?

In regards to your interpretation (bugeyes) of the quote, it certainly doesn't mean that "[..] nothing is ever 100% perfect in the real world." It is referring to something which could be better, and isn't making excuses for it beyond the non-deal implementation. I do think we are debating apples to oranges though; as you are staying on the side of accuracy and precision, and I am just looking for the best user experience I can get, Ideally they would come together, but I'm getting the impression that that isn't the case.
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I dont know how to explain this better...

This is a high end display meant for people who want a really high quality image. If you think that the quality is too good, spend less money and get not-quite-as-nice of a display. It doesnt make sense to spend a lot of money on something that you wont enjoy.

Also keep in mind though, that being high quality means that your movies and whatnot will look better too. Yes, you can see gradients on these bar tests, but the actual images that you see on the screen when you're using it will look fantastic.
 
You are correct in that he means that while no gradient would be preferable, there's nothing you can do. It's a simple function of having more pixels than colours. If you wanted a truly smooth transition across 1 display that's 1920 pixels wide, well you'd need 1920 individual colour levels so that each band could be it's own colour. As a practical matter for greyscale 1024 (10-bit) is generally enough to look smooth to everyone.

Well, since displays are only 8-bit, that means that there is going to be visible gradients. You often can't see them on cheap CRTs or LCDs because they can't distinctly render even 256 colour levels however on good displays that are properly set up it's easy to see.

In the CRT world you can do something about it kinda. CRTs are analogue and thus don't have a fix number fo colours, and good ones can do more than 256 levels. If you combine that with a graphics card that had 10-bit output and you can theoretically get more colours. As a practical matter I don't know that there's really any software support for it.

So until we start to move to higher bit displays, gradients are a sign of a good display, not a bad one. A bad display will have low fidelity and smear the colours together, a good one will render them all distinctly, as it should.
 
Sycraft said:
You are correct in that he means that while no gradient would be preferable, there's nothing you can do. It's a simple function of having more pixels than colours. If you wanted a truly smooth transition across 1 display that's 1920 pixels wide, well you'd need 1920 individual colour levels so that each band could be it's own colour. As a practical matter for greyscale 1024 (10-bit) is generally enough to look smooth to everyone.

Well, since displays are only 8-bit, that means that there is going to be visible gradients. You often can't see them on cheap CRTs or LCDs because they can't distinctly render even 256 colour levels however on good displays that are properly set up it's easy to see.

In the CRT world you can do something about it kinda. CRTs are analogue and thus don't have a fix number fo colours, and good ones can do more than 256 levels. If you combine that with a graphics card that had 10-bit output and you can theoretically get more colours. As a practical matter I don't know that there's really any software support for it.

So until we start to move to higher bit displays, gradients are a sign of a good display, not a bad one. A bad display will have low fidelity and smear the colours together, a good one will render them all distinctly, as it should.
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Too bad current DVI connections are *already* being saturated by large displays. We cant even do above 60 hz on this display over DVI.
 
Well I can say now that this monitor is fantastic. Ordered Monday night from NCIx and received on Saturday...great service. Has fix and paper describing it on the box. No pixels that I can see.

I'm using with ATI 9700pro over DVI with no issues using supplied cable...so no issues after NCIx does the update.

Colors are great...just right after turning brightness way down. Tried 90deg mode and boy is that cool, but don't think I'll ever really use it...kids thought I got a different monitor and sent the first one back after I changed back from 90 to regular:) ...it looks so different when vertical.

I do need to calibrate and pick a good colorimeter...didn't see a reponse to a previous post on what other's recommend and if there are problems using with a LCD.

I love the stand...seems very well designed to me...does everything and well. Seems to go every direction. Looks fantastic also. Used the USB ports for my memory stick and that works great too.

Tried an old vcr into the composite input and played with scaling...with "1:1" mode on, right in the center appears to be right...set to "full", stretches to fit whole screen and then set to "aspect" scales to fit vertically with bars on right and left for 4:3 as it should. So appears to work right to me. I don't have an Xbox to try 1080p.

Came from a 20" Sony Trinitron CRT and started seeing some problems with colored characters...was driving me nuts. Every other character looked like it had a pink then blue fringe. Did research and found out it was the Windows ClearType for LCD kicking in. Downloaded the Windows PowerToy to adjust ClearType and now got a happy medium of smooth characters with no discernible colors. http://www.microsoft.com/typography/ClearTypePowerToy.mspx

I've set the background on my desktop to dark green (green is almost black) and the only thing that bugs me on this monitor, and I've believe that this is normal is the fact that when I'm right in front of the monitor, it is slightly darker in the middle and as I move left and right, it appears like a wide black vertical bar is following me. I assume this is the angle issue mentioned previously. If I move to the far right and look, the whole desktop looks lighter (Golf Green green), but perfectly uniform. I assume this is VA? It really didn't help much to move back either...tried at least 3 ft and still see slightly darker towards the 0 deg viewing area. The weird thing is that it really looks like using it at a 45 deg angle is much better than straight on (except that the blacks are not as black.)
 
I've set the background on my desktop to dark green (green is almost black) and the only thing that bugs me on this monitor, and I've believe that this is normal is the fact that when I'm right in front of the monitor, it is slightly darker in the middle and as I move left and right, it appears like a wide black vertical bar is following me. I assume this is the angle issue mentioned previously. If I move to the far right and look, the whole desktop looks lighter (Golf Green green), but perfectly uniform. I assume this is VA? It really didn't help much to move back either...tried at least 3 ft and still see slightly darker towards the 0 deg viewing area. The weird thing is that it really looks like using it at a 45 deg angle is much better than straight on (except that the blacks are not as black.)
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I believe that is the downside of VA panels and that is the type of info I was looking for. If it's bad enough, it could affect photoediting, which is my main concern.

As for colorimeters, I have a Monaco Optix Pro and it works with LCDs. What you want are pucks that hang over the top of your monitor and are counterweighted so that the puck will stay centered on the monitor. You do not want pucks that rely solely on suction cups. Suction cups will ruin your panel.
 
i got mine last wednesday from newegg and it does not have the firmware update. :(
guess i'll be sending it in soon :)

i did use a spyder express on the monitor to calibrate the colors and i have to say i'm really impressed with the colors and the blacks aren't too bad either.
with correct calibration, i dont see how anyone would have a problem using photoshop or image editing tools. i worked with it all weekend and didnt see a problem working with photoshop.
my old crt still has better picture quality though, but even though the picture rocks, its still an LCD, and is doing a fine job so far.

i would highly recommend using a color calibrator for this monitor, you wont regret it. Works fine for me, and i'm pro CRT till death :D
 
I'm in the market for a new monitor and the FP241 does seem like a possible alternative. I do have two questions though that I would be happy if someone could answer.

1) If I go for this one. should I get the "standard" FP241W or the FP241WZ (when it's released here in about 1-2 months?)

2) This review ain't exactly too approving. I've also read quite a bit of complaints on forums (this one and others) as well as lots of praise. Could you please tell me how good is it for A) Image retouching B) watching movies and C) gaming?

Thanks in advance for all answers!
 
Urian said:
I'm in the market for a new monitor and the FP241 does seem like a possible alternative. I do have two questions though that I would be happy if someone could answer.

1) If I go for this one. should I get the "standard" FP241W or the FP241WZ (when it's released here in about 1-2 months?)

2) This review ain't exactly too approving. I've also read quite a bit of complaints on forums (this one and others) as well as lots of praise. Could you please tell me how good is it for A) Image retouching B) watching movies and C) gaming?

Thanks in advance for all answers!
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Well, my priorities are similar, except I put photoediting and gaming as 1 and 1a respectively, then watching movies as 3. The review you linked talks says that the Z model is good for reducing ghosting, which is really only important for gaming. For everything else, it wasn't as good as the non-Z version. Since relatively few people have complained here about ghosting on their non-Z version, I would have to recommend you get the non-Z version now rather than wait however long it'll take to get the Z version. I read the BH review and decided to scratch the Z version off my list.
 
Urian, there is supposed to be a representative from BenQ monitoring this thread starting this week. Maybe we can ask about release dates for the FP241WZ. You did not give your location, UK?
 
Urian said:
I'm in the market for a new monitor and the FP241 does seem like a possible alternative. I do have two questions though that I would be happy if someone could answer.

1) If I go for this one. should I get the "standard" FP241W or the FP241WZ (when it's released here in about 1-2 months?)

2) This review ain't exactly too approving. I've also read quite a bit of complaints on forums (this one and others) as well as lots of praise. Could you please tell me how good is it for A) Image retouching B) watching movies and C) gaming?

Thanks in advance for all answers!
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1) I wouldnt buy the Z version. If it's taking them this long to release it, then the technology probably doesnt work.

2) My understanding is that this display is excellent for all three of these. At least better than any other 1920x1200 display on the market.
 
jcbguk said:
I just called BenQ regarding the FP241W Z and after hearing from a BenQ Product Specialist that they were still in the dark someone gave me another number and I somehow got put through to the Display Product Manager in the UK (though from Taiwan). I was told that he knows as much as anyone in Europe about what is happening with this monitor and the FP241W.

He seemed friendly and very authoratitive and told me they now had a sample of the final production model of which at least 100 units are shipping to the UK end Feb. It turns out that he hadn't actually heard of this forum but, when asked, agreed to join and will endeavour to answer questions and clarify matters here next week. Personally, after speaking with him I have faith that they will be here by the end of Feb and won't be buying anything else just yet.

Incidentally, given their advertising budgets I cannot fathom why more companies don't allocate staff for this purpose - someone from Fujitsui does this very effectively over on AV Forum.
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This is a quote from last week. I have some questions for him. Thanks to JCBGUK!!
 
What it comes down to me is how much do I want to spend for a technology that I can turn off if I don't like. They are actually the same two monitors with a switch to turn off BFI if you don't like it. Am I correct? Refering to W or WZ model. (I think they refer to BFI as AMA-Z now)
 
Does anyone who has this monitor have a problem with it being TOO bright? I had a Dell 2405 awhile back, and it was so bright I had to turn the brightness down to zero and still use the nvidia control panel to lower other settings to reduce brightness even more.

Just wanted to make sure that the brightness on the Benq can be tamed down enough for dark environments.
 
higgy said:
(I think they refer to BFI as AMA-Z now)
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AMA-Z is obsolete, they call it Perfect Motion now.

image_bin.cfm
 
received monitor from NCIX , with firmware fix, after waiting ten days and its absolutely beautiful. highly recommend it.
 
cleve said:
received monitor from NCIX , with firmware fix, after waiting ten days and its absolutely beautiful. highly recommend it.
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How long did it take to ship?

NCIX shipped my display last week, but as far as I can tell Canada Post hasnt even put it on a truck to get out of Vancouver yet.

I live only 15 hours away but they say it's going to take 2 weeks to get here. wtf

This is why nobody likes Canada. *pissed*
 
Quanticles said:
How long did it take to ship?

NCIX shipped my display last week, but as far as I can tell Canada Post hasnt even put it on a truck to get out of Vancouver yet.

I live only 15 hours away but they say it's going to take 2 weeks to get here. wtf

This is why nobody likes Canada. *pissed*
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Im right there with u on that thought...I have no idea what purpose Canada Post serves and worse i actually paid for the expedited shipping...and mind you when the monitor arrives in the USA its handed off to the USPS...i swear..:mad:
 
placed order ten days ago on a friday afternoon.
shipped last wednesday and arrived now monday afternoon.
i paid for express shipping and it took 5 days which i guess is right at the 3-5 day it promises. the problem was waiting four days for firmware update and waiting to be shipped.
 
Whining will only do so much. If you have an issue, send a priority ticket to NCIX so they can fix anything that needs to be fixed.
 
Mysticode said:
Whining will only do so much. If you have an issue, send a priority ticket to NCIX so they can fix anything that needs to be fixed.
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What will they do, call Canada Post and tell them to get off their asses and finally drive their truck 30 minutes south to the border?
 
Canada Post is too busy drinking beers and eating jelly filleds, eh. :)

I ordered mine on Friday, it shipped today, yay! I hope it shows up Friday-ish, already had a 3-day weekend planned. Just ship it down I-5.

For those in the states that ordered from NCIX, who delivered it when it got to you, USPS? Someone mentioned the other day that they got theirs on a Saturday, so that made me think USPS. The only thing weirder that that is ordering something from Hong Kong and getting it delivered by USPS on a Sunday!
 
Yesterday I received my FP241W from NCIX. I ordered it on Thu 1/18/07, NCIX shipped it from Richmond, BC, Canada, on Tue 1/23/07 (right after I contacted them about the delay*), and it took only about four days to reach me in Virginia (ground shipping - USPS on the US side of the border).

November 2006 manufacture date, with the updated firmware (loaded by NCIX). Aspect ratio mode works as expected. No dead pixels. The backlight brightness is uniform, and it can get very bright at the higher brightness setting. The FP241W is a beautiful monitor. I am using its DVI interface with my computer. So far, I have not noticed any ghosting when playing games and watching video. No sign of banding (per DisplayMate's gradient test). I'm amazed at how black the black is. Viewing angles are superb. I am satisfied with the construction of the monitor housing and stand.

If I look carefully and use a test pattern, I can detect the "slight loss of brightness at the perpendicular (and near-perpendicular) viewing angles" issue that is common to all PVA/MVA panels. One can use the test pattern at this URL:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1004&message=18204850
I saw the effect only on the 6% and 10% range, and I had to look for it in order to see it (and I could still see the boxes; they just varied in brightness a bit as I changed the viewing angle). The effect seems gradual as I move the test pattern (or my head), so I doubt my eyes will be bothered by it. I'm fine with this minor flaw in the technology.

The FP241W is significantly better than the Dell 2407WFP that I tried for a week back in December. The 2407WFP (A03 firmware) had poor colors, hints of less-than-8bit electronics (though their panel is 8bit), and a purple-ish background glow. HDTV video played on the 2407WFP was unimpressive. I had found a good deal on the 2407WFP, but it wasn't good enough to keep it. I sent the 2407WFP back. To me, the FP241W is worth its higher price.

I big thank you to everyone who posted their observations on this monitor, and its competition, on the forum. The advice was invaluable.

I am _very_ grateful to NCIX for taking the time and making the effort to apply the firmware update for their customers. I use the monitor with my computer and also as an HDTV, directly connected to an HDTV receiver (with 1080i over DVI output) from my cable company, so the aspect ratio fix was essential for me.

*I used NCIX's PayPal payment option at the time of the order (clicked their button), and I paid it in full, but the packing slip included with the monitor showed that I still owed about $5.88 more. My understanding is that that discrepency was the reason for the ship delay, since the people who handle the shipping thought that I had not paid in full. My account at the NCIX web site shows that I have paid in full. In any case, submitting a web query to NCIX was enough to get the ball rolling.

- David

P.S. I decided not to wait for the FP241WZ because of 1) the wait, 2) the higher price, and 3) the concerns over the actual value of the BFI: http://www.behardware.com/articles/646-1/benq-fp241wz-1rst-lcd-with-screening.html
 
Does anyone know if NCIX's express warranty (30 day pixel policy with 11 months free shipping on RMA's for $38.00) is valid in the US? I assume it is because I can get through the US checkout with it in cart. It seems to me that it's a good deal considering the cost of shipping and the fact that I cannot stand dead pixels or noticable backlight bleeding. The only caveat is that I will probably get a dead pixel after the 30 days is up knowing my luck!
 
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