There is still a lot of debate on whether the 2407FPW will accept 1080p. It wont accept 1080i, due to the lack of deinterlacing circuitry. 1080i is very common, so this is a pretty big shortcoming of the 2407FPW if you intend to use with a console, or with a HDTV receiver for TV.Detonate said:
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Official BenQ FP241W Thread !!! Info, Pictures, Reviews
- Thread starter Groto
- Start date
It's a problem because manufacturers are effectively cheating to boost the response time specifications and getting away with it because most people don't notice the lag, and the people that do notice the lag aren't being taken seriously.Daggah said:
Do you realize that 50 ms means the monitor is lagging behind by at least 3 frames? That's ridiculous. No monitor should lag that much. An 80-100 ms ping doesn't affect mouse movements. You can still aim, and the game compensates for network latency.Daggah said:
Not only does the problem affect aiming in games, but it also affects audio/video synchronization, which is important for video production. It also affects the results of reaction time tests.
My problem is he's going around acting like the problem is isolated and claiming that his monitor doesn't have the problem when it does. That's misleading to potential buyers. It's one thing to say, "I don't notice the lag. If there's lag, it doesn't bother me." It's another thing entirely to claim that the problem is isolated and that people are spreading the "rumor" without actually trying the monitor for themselves. I wouldn't be saying anything if I hadn't tried the monitor myself. I found the lag to be unbearable. It's very annoying trying to use the mouse when the movements don't quite match, even with basic tasks.DieHardcc said:
It's true that some other monitors have lag as well, but there's a big difference between 25 ms and 55 ms. The Samsung 244T is one of the worst out there in terms of lag.Detonate said:
Anyway, back to the BenQ:
That's just ridiculous logic. If the monitor does indeed stretch images to the wrong aspect ratio, that effectively makes the extra inputs useless. What's the point of having them there at all if they don't work properly? I seriously hope the stretching issue is just initial misinformation. We need people to test external devices before coming to a conclusion.menace2society said:I don't know about anyone else but I am trying to buy a PC MONITOR. Which is what I thought this was. What everyone keeps going on about is that it not a TV MONITOR, it's not supposed to beIf you want to hook up a game console BUY A TV if you look hard enough you can get a 1080p TV for a little more money and then you can hook your PC to it and complain how good it plays DVD's, CONSOLE GAMES and how bad it is at being a PC MONITOR, but at lest you could do it on another thread
I find this ironic because BenQ is actually the company that manufactures Dell monitors. BenQ is actually responsible for the problems that exist in Dell monitors.DangerIsGo said:
That's absolutely ridiculous. In that case you can also blame Samsung who I believe manufactured the panel. Very simple it's Dell monitor and nobody else can be blamed for what electronics Dell decided to use, it's Dell design, its up to Dell to approve the final product and nobody else can be blamed for Dell selling defective monitorToastyX said:
One can only hope that Benq learned something from Dell's mistake and it's not cutting corners with some cheap electronics that don't work.
I can't blame Samsung for problems that had nothing to do with the panel. Most of the problems were not in the electronics, but in the firmware, which is the software that controls the hardware, and BenQ engineered the firmware. It may be Dell's fault for selling defective monitors, but it's BenQ's fault for making defective monitors, which means similar problems can exist in their products. Dell's monitors stretch 4:3 480i/480p signals to 3:2, and I wouldn't be surprised if BenQ's monitors suffered from the same problem, that is if it doesn't stretch everything to full screen.
The Dell 2407 monitor are made with the Samsung panel (LTM240M2) the same as 244T but with different electronic.ToastyX said:
Here is a article that explain the lag of a Lcd vs Crt.
http://www.behardware.com/articles/632-1/lcds-images-delayed-compared-to-crts-yes.html
Logical Disconnect
n00b
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While I certainly agree with everyone about the lack of 1:1 scaling, in reality I can't think of any monitor except the Dell that actually does it for 16:9 (without forcing it through the video card, that is). The 244T allows you to choose either wide or standard I think, but as far as I know it still stretches 16:9 to 16:10. The Acer stretches. From what I know pretty much all the 20-inchers stretch, except for the European NEC model, and it only has DVI and VGA inputs.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that all the monitors I know of that have inputs other than DVI and VGA will stretch your 16:9 inputs, except for the Dell - whose component input is pretty useless anyway from what I've read. So...you're pretty much stuck with it unfortunately, and while I understand the concern, if stretching 16:9 to 16:10 bothers you too much and you want inputs other than VGA and DVI, your only real solution will be to buy a 16:9 TV (if someone can think of a monitor that does all this stuff an proves me wrong, then I'll be more than happy to concede). But barring that, I'd say that the BenQ is probably a great 24" choice, if the review here is anything to go by.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that all the monitors I know of that have inputs other than DVI and VGA will stretch your 16:9 inputs, except for the Dell - whose component input is pretty useless anyway from what I've read. So...you're pretty much stuck with it unfortunately, and while I understand the concern, if stretching 16:9 to 16:10 bothers you too much and you want inputs other than VGA and DVI, your only real solution will be to buy a 16:9 TV (if someone can think of a monitor that does all this stuff an proves me wrong, then I'll be more than happy to concede). But barring that, I'd say that the BenQ is probably a great 24" choice, if the review here is anything to go by.
Chartal said:
I remember reading it, forgot about that review. Yup, all LCD lags, but still a phenomenon. There are many variables lie between the user inputs (like a mouse), the computer, and the LCD monitor. This something the buyers will have to feel for themselves, because people have different standards (like slow reaction time).
So, all LCD lags, do you really care about the lag, yes or no?
If it is a YES, just drop the whole LCD scene, go back to fat ass CRT monitor and put your whole life on professional gaming.
DangerIsGo
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Please, lets stay back on topic and not have a flame war about Dell. I dont want this perfectly good thread about BENQ to turn into DELL. As far as the the 2407, yes I knew BenQ manufactured the newest panels in the 2407 (I think samsung had the previous ones or I could be wrong) but as was said before, Its up to dell on how the rest of the product is built, and its built poorly with poor components, which why its so inexpensive. As far as the BenQ goes, Newegg was having a sale but its MSRP is 1.3 grand (IIRC).
Can we do this? Stop arguing over the stretching until we have TOTAL proof from someone who has a 1080p source? In a review, on a forum, etc.. Till then, all this speculation on 1080p stretching is just getting, ...old. Will it stretch? will it not? Ill bring in my DVD player (regular old dvd player) with a DVD to see how that plays. Where is that guy with an xbox 360?
Edit: The DVD player has component output so i can test the componet/ composite again and svideo.
but its MSRP is 1.3 grand (IIRC). Can we do this? Stop arguing over the stretching until we have TOTAL proof from someone who has a 1080p source? In a review, on a forum, etc.. Till then, all this speculation on 1080p stretching is just getting, ...old. Will it stretch? will it not? Ill bring in my DVD player (regular old dvd player) with a DVD to see how that plays. Where is that guy with an xbox 360?
Edit: The DVD player has component output so i can test the componet/ composite again and svideo.
I've been following this thread for weeks hoping to find out about the 1:1 mapping.. I'm very eager and I know I'm not the only one! If it turns out not to support it, I'm thinking about the 37" Westinghouse LVM-37W3.
One thing I just cant understand is why anybody is making 16:10 panels, it doesn't make any sense! Nothing uses that resolution / aspect ratio, its completely arbitrary, and now we have to worry about black bar insertion to fix 16:9 to 16:10...
One thing I just cant understand is why anybody is making 16:10 panels, it doesn't make any sense! Nothing uses that resolution / aspect ratio, its completely arbitrary, and now we have to worry about black bar insertion to fix 16:9 to 16:10...
DangerIsGo
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The black bar really doesnt bother me, its just when its not used when it should be which bothers people...but I know where your coming from. Why the hell dont they just make 16:9 monitors...1920x1080. Why? I honestly dont know. I wish i did.
ButterFlyEffect78
Weaksauce
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Wholy mother of god, why is everyone so god damn into the HDMI nonsense? I purchased this monitor strictly for PC use. Even if i had an Xbox or PS3 i wouldnt even bother hooking it up on this thing, ill just go out and purchase a lcd tv that fully supports 1080p and it'll have to be atleast 30 inches big....... Cmon... this monitor is designed for a PC and not Xbox... shruggs....
Stop saying its just for PC use, theres a REASON BenQ put HDMI, composite, component, and s-video inputs on the monitor and it wasn't just for fun. It's even advertised as being designed for the new DVD formats as well as HD game consoles.
Theres a reason the OSD has an option to choose the input, because it is DESIGNED to take a number of different inputs at the same time and switch between them.
Whether you think it's fit for such a purpose is different, but BenQ designed it with more than just PC use in mind.
Theres a reason the OSD has an option to choose the input, because it is DESIGNED to take a number of different inputs at the same time and switch between them.
Whether you think it's fit for such a purpose is different, but BenQ designed it with more than just PC use in mind.
ButterFlyEffect78
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rabhw said:
I agree with you and I totally understand where you're coming from but just stop and think for a second and you'll notice that this whole thing is a marketing mind trick. As we both know this monitor runs at a native 1920x1200 resolution , am i right? Can you game at that resolution ? Yes, is that considered as HD gaming experiance? Sure, so in respect to the HDMI input, its just an added option for us to play around but has no quarantee it will suport "FULL HD" to outside components such as consoles, blueray, etc.... but you gotta admit , this monitor is a HD monitor, it will play movies at 1080p if u care to download 20gig load of space into your hard drive. Right?
Bobby Peru
n00b
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So, we still:
Right?
- Haven't gotten any measurements of input lag, and
- Haven't gotten any definitive answer on stretching of 1080p signals
Right?
Sure "hyperbole" except from you.Daggah said:
Even according to officials Dell's spokesman "DELL-ChrisM" at Dell's Monitor Support Forum" not all problems were fixed and some only in Desktop Mode.
MUCH MORE accurate statement by you would have been, whatever problems still exist with 2407 does not effect me for my use and don't bother me
BenQ does not manufactures the Dell's 2407 LCD panels, the panel is manufactured by Samsung.DangerIsGo said:Please, lets stay back on topic and not have a flame war about Dell. I dont want this perfectly good thread about BENQ to turn into DELL. As far as the the 2407, yes I knew BenQ manufactured the newest panels in the 2407 (I think samsung had the previous ones or I could be wrong) but as was said before, Its up to dell on how the rest of the product is built, and its built poorly with poor components, which why its so inexpensive. As far as the BenQ goes, Newegg was having a sale
Can we do this? Stop arguing over the stretching until we have TOTAL proof from someone who has a 1080p source? In a review, on a forum, etc.. Till then, all this speculation on 1080p stretching is just getting, ...old. Will it stretch? will it not? Ill bring in my DVD player (regular old dvd player) with a DVD to see how that plays. Where is that guy with an xbox 360?
Edit: The DVD player has component output so i can test the componet/ composite again and svideo.
BenQ is only assembling the monitor according to Dell's specs at BenQ's manufacturing facilities in China, Mexico and Czech Republic.
BenQ is also using the Samsung panel in FP241W not sure if identical.
BenQ main advantage is coming out with the monitor much later than Dell and hopefully BenQ did learn something from the mistakes made by Dell and some better hardware electronics and/or firmware is being used.
BenQ should not need 4 firmware versions to be better than Dell 2407, if properly done.
I fully agree this thread should by mainly about the new BenQ FP241W, strangely all the negatives about FP241W come from posters that don't own the monitor and don't even plan to buy one, some actually already own the Dell 2407.
My replies are only in defense to straiten the twisted and misleading infos about the 2407.
PLEASE let's here more info from guys that actually own the BenQ FP241W.
ButterFlyEffect78 said:
I'm thinking of getting a matching pair, one mainly for PC, one mainly for everything else.
All my troubles would go away if someone made a DVI/HDMI PC input card that could display TV/consoles in a window or full screen, but nobody is making them yet (if ever, considering possible DRM issues).
DangerIsGo
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Brining my DVD player to school to test the component and s-video (see if a regular DVD stretches or not..if it doesn't, theres a good chance a 1080p which is more sophisticated wont either so we can almost put that to rest) Although a PS2 game did stretch...which is odd...
QFT. Amen If done right, they should only need 1..MAYBE 2 to update something minor or have more compatibility.
QFT. Amen If done right, they should only need 1..MAYBE 2 to update something minor or have more compatibility.
on the issue of firmware why is it exactly that monitors cant just be flashed utilising the USB. I'd have thought that would be a good way to solve issues, especially since some companies wouldnt be too hapy to do an exchange just for a firmware flash. Take mohamad to the mountain not the the mountain to mohamad
menace2society
Limp Gawd
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Will everybody who wants to talk about Dell go start or join one of the many Dell threads all ready out there Your sucking up all the oxygen!!!
Your sucking up all the oxygen!!!DangerIsGo
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the whole screen...1920x1200. Ill test with the DVD in about an hour (component, svideo and composite)
As far as the firmware goes, im guessing that an actual IC chip needs to be flashed so removing it is the only way to flash it. The USB chip is probably not connected to the chip in any physical way so flashing it that way would be impossible.
As far as the firmware goes, im guessing that an actual IC chip needs to be flashed so removing it is the only way to flash it. The USB chip is probably not connected to the chip in any physical way so flashing it that way would be impossible.
menace2society
Limp Gawd
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Danger I see you also looked at the Westinghouse LVM-37W3 37 Why did you choose the Benq over it and are you happy you did ?
Yeah I understand that its not possible on these monitors. What I'm wondering is why they don't engineer the monitors with this functionality. I'm sure it would save some companies alot of money allowing the half savvy users flash their own firmware instead of shipping out replacements such as Dell had to do. Theres always a risk but same goes for updating an MP3 player or anything else.DangerIsGo said:
I duno, I wish monitor manufacturers would take this into consideration and make it a priority. That said alot of the times changes would be in hardware not just firmware.
BTW Im eager to hear the DVD results =)
ButterFlyEffect78
Weaksauce
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gatz said:
There are a few cards from ATI that have HDMI inputs, maybe this will allow a true 1080p picture.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102032
DangerIsGo
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DVD results are in, renaming and uploading the pictures
Yes becuase the 24" allows a higher resolution than the westing house. Even though it was 37", I would have watned a higher resolution, plus my budget didnt allow it.
Yes becuase the 24" allows a higher resolution than the westing house. Even though it was 37", I would have watned a higher resolution, plus my budget didnt allow it.
DangerIsGo
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Here are 2 more HL2 pictures showing the sky and no banding (the vertical lines are just from the camera:
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/mon46.jpg
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/mon47.jpg
And here are the results you guys have been waiting for:
Component:
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/inputcomp.jpg
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/inputcomp2.jpg
Composite:
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/inputcomps.jpg
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/inputcomps2.jpg
S-Video:
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/inputsvideo.jpg
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/inputsivdeo2.jpg
That was Lost Season 2 DVDs Episode 1 Man of Science, Man of Faith
Obviously component was the best quality out of all of them. Surprisingly, I found composite a better quality than SVideo. The white blurs that you see are either a result of the camera flash which i forgot to turn off the first picture, or of the window behind me (cant remove that)
Here are 2 pictures of a 4:3 movie National Lampoons Christmas Vacation
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/input43.jpg
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/input432.jpg
It honestly doesnt look that bad stretched. Really. Even though it is a full screen movie.
Lost was a widescreen.
So all your 1080p questions are hopefully answered. Anything else?
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/mon46.jpg
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/mon47.jpg
And here are the results you guys have been waiting for:
Component:
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/inputcomp.jpg
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/inputcomp2.jpg
Composite:
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/inputcomps.jpg
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/inputcomps2.jpg
S-Video:
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/inputsvideo.jpg
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/inputsivdeo2.jpg
That was Lost Season 2 DVDs Episode 1 Man of Science, Man of Faith
Obviously component was the best quality out of all of them. Surprisingly, I found composite a better quality than SVideo. The white blurs that you see are either a result of the camera flash which i forgot to turn off the first picture, or of the window behind me (cant remove that)
Here are 2 pictures of a 4:3 movie National Lampoons Christmas Vacation
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/input43.jpg
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/input432.jpg
It honestly doesnt look that bad stretched. Really. Even though it is a full screen movie.
Lost was a widescreen.
So all your 1080p questions are hopefully answered.
Anything else?I'm a bit confused from your results. Does it support 1:1 or not? It looks to me like it does from the component and composite pictures but then in the 4:3 pics it looks like it doesn't.
Thank you again for posting these. It's really appreacited!
Thank you again for posting these. It's really appreacited!
Thanks for the update. Something still not right about those though. The black bars are too big to account for the difference between 1920x1080 and 1920x1200.DangerIsGo said:Here are 2 more HL2 pictures showing the sky and no banding (the vertical lines are just from the camera:
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/mon46.jpg
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/mon47.jpg
And here are the results you guys have been waiting for:
Component:
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/inputcomp.jpg
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/inputcomp2.jpg
Composite:
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/inputcomps.jpg
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/inputcomps2.jpg
S-Video:
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/inputsvideo.jpg
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/inputsivdeo2.jpg
That was Lost Season 2 DVDs Episode 1 Man of Science, Man of Faith
Obviously component was the best quality out of all of them. Surprisingly, I found composite a better quality than SVideo. The white blurs that you see are either a result of the camera flash which i forgot to turn off the first picture, or of the window behind me (cant remove that)
Here are 2 pictures of a 4:3 movie National Lampoons Christmas Vacation
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/input43.jpg
http://web.njit.edu/~ddo3/monitor/input432.jpg
It honestly doesnt look that bad stretched. Really. Even though it is a full screen movie.
Lost was a widescreen.
So all your 1080p questions are hopefully answered.
Are you sure ypu didnt have the DVD player set to have a TV type of 4:3, causing to produce a letter-boxed picture version of the widescreen dvd (ie, picture has black bars top and bottom as part of the picture), which is then stretched to fullscreen? Can you please check the TV type configuration in the DVD player?
fantastic, the widescreen movies look great and the 4:3 ones isnt something that would effect me anyway. good-o, Ill get one when stores in Aus make it available. Would be interested in knowing about the dvd player settings but as yeah, the fact the 4:3 stretched does seem odd if the others didnt.
kornkob said:
I think he caught something there. Widescreen on this monitor should be black bar'd by 10%, 5% on top and bottom. Just by using the eye, it looks like more than 10% of the screen is lost. Maybe I'm just being skeptical from all the 1:1 talk and should be thankful there are black bars at the least.
Bobby Peru
n00b
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ToastyX said:
Beat me to it. You can observe this by playing a DVD in a software player on your PC in windowed mode.
When and how will we know if this display distorts widescreen external inputs? (And what about HDMI?)