I also mentioned this and what I did to help was to enable contrast enhancer in the monitor menu.EDIT: Yeah enabling HDR lifts blacks and makes stuff look washed out and terrible. Not sure whats going on but here we go again like the Neo G9 because this is similar to what that looked like at launch just not as bad.
Yeah I gave this a try but it crushes blacks and is just a bandaid. We need something in between like HDR actually working correctly. I'm going to keep experimenting to confirm if something is wrong.I also mentioned this and what I did to help was to enable contrast enhancer in the monitor menu.
Those scanlines are quite apparent on the grass screenshot you provided. I’m not seeing that on the Neo G7 after quite a bit of testing. But I’m still not sure about this monitor. I agree that most games I’ve tried look better in SDR. I do like the size and no risk of burn in, text looks nice, but not sure I can count on Samsung to improve the HDR. I’ve hovered over the buy button on the C242 since it’s release but one of the reasons I moved away from the FV43U was how uncomfortable it was to use when doing non-gaming things. I have some Best Buy GC laying around so I may take the plunge and compare the two. Could always get the geek squad protection and not care about burn in.Like the Neo G9, setting local dimming to Auto caps the minimum brightness of the FALD zones in SDR so that the entire backlight is always active for the sake of desktop usability. Local dimming still functions in SDR but really at a bare minimum and only when something on screen demands more brightness than that elevated minimum level so you'll never get zones completely turn off. Low is the same as auto in SDR except it allows for greater dynamic range. Manually setting the FALD to High is the only way to get inky blacks and have zones turn off but in return you get lots of blooming on desktop since it becomes very aggressive favoring contrast over everything. Same behavior of FALD in HDR except Auto defaults to High with HDR enabled (high is required for legitimate HDR).
I dunno if its a firmware omission or they really got rid of the HDR picture modes but there is no longer HDR Standard and HDR Dynamic in the OSD with HDR active. The picture modes just mirror the SDR ones. Setting contrast enhancer on gets you to like 80% of what this monitor should look like in HDR and really shows what its potential is but its crushing black detail too much with that enabled so its a no go for me.
The curve is bizarre. Since its so aggressive in the center and gentle at the side the monitor looks like its bowing outward at the edges if you stare at it long enough.
I'm giving up on this thing until a firmware update comes out since its pointless to keep testing with HDR broken as it is. Its the same deal as the Neo G9 and why reviewers may have missed the issue because its only present in some games or scenarios. I can download a HDR test video from 4Kmedia.org and play one using MadVR and it looks amazing but then a different video looks like ass the same as Forza Horizen 5.
Anyway, probably not a good idea to buy this until a firmware update or two which based on Samsungs track record will take 1-1.5 months but hopefully sooner.
EDIT: Also in the above "HDR" screenshot of the monitor you can vaguely make out the scanlines. They seem to be much more present with HDR activated.
Have you ever used PG32UQX? Similar to C2, ASUS has PG42UQ on the corner. PG48UQ is already out. The price is similar to C2. But the monitors with OLED panel are all mid-tier in terms of HDR. Brightness is not enough.
Full field brightness is the absolute most useless metric to judge a display. I'd argue it's as useless as a 1-3% window and such a rare occurrence that it's irrelevant.Saying a 500nits full-field TV has better picture quality than a 1400Nits full-filed monitor is very questionable.
I'm not seeing any VRR flicker in games. Loading screens yes but I've yet to see consistent flicker during gameplay outside of big frametime spikes like in UE4 when assets load in from one area to another. That same scenario causes similar flicker on my C2.I'm still getting flickering. Initially thought it was mostly during loading screens but noticing it in-game too. It's subtle but it's distracting. Does the same thing over DP or HDMI. One plus is that HDMI can run full RGB 12 bpc.
LG C2 is on the way, eager to compare the two.
Full field brightness is the absolute most useless metric to judge a display. I'd argue it's as useless as a 1-3% window and such a rare occurrence that it's irrelevant.
The game you show is Kena - Bridge of Spirits. It doesn't even support HDR or Windows HDR. At least give some legit HDR.Yeah I gave this a try but it crushes blacks and is just a bandaid. We need something in between like HDR actually working correctly. I'm going to keep experimenting to confirm if something is wrong.
EDIT: Yeah something is wrong with HDR on this monitor. Forza Horizen 5 looks like booty with the orange intro Vettes color being super washed out along with the entire image. Switching to SDR and cranking brightness makes FH5 look better. Like the Neo G9 at launch this seems to vary based on game/media but as is if you crank SDR's brightness with FALD on high it looks similar or at times better.
Guess which one has HDR enabled? Maybe some day Samsung can launch a working product.
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I know it doesn't support HDR but enabling HDR does that to the picture in general across games/media and is much easier to demonstrate in SDR with my phone in that game. In comparison, doing the exact same thing with my C2 (toggle HDR on and off with KB) makes 0 difference in how Kena looks.The game you show is Kena - Bridge of Spirits. It doesn't even support HDR or Windows HDR. At least give some legit HDR.
Samsung does has more bugs. It is deceptive on its HDR with ABL miniLED. But it still has better HDR than much more aggressive ABL OLED.You just proved my point while not understanding a word I said. Thanks
Yes I had to erase the PG32UQX from my memory because this is what it looked like:Samsung does has more bugs. It is deceptive on its HDR with ABL miniLED. But it still has better HDR than much more aggressive ABL OLED.
And you are saying OLED looks better than the high-end FALD. It seems you already forget how PG32UQX looks like.
G8 10% is 2000nits, 1%-25% windows are well above 1000nits. How did you get the 800nits? What kind of test equipment do you use?For anyone interested I took some HDR brightness measurements in game and this monitor does indeed achieve 880nits on a roughly 10% size highlight vs 655nits on my C2 in a best case scenario but the problem is its FALD algorithm has OLED like ABL so the more bright stuff on screen the more it gimped peak brightness. I think Vega demonstrated this behavior with a video earlier in the thread. Most of the time it is indeed brighter than the C2 but there are strange times where lots of highlights on screen at once causes the C2 to average like 50-70nits more per highlight.
Once they fix HDR I think it will offer pretty decent HDR performance. TBH its not worlds apart from the C2 even in super challenging dark parts of games. Yeah FALD zone transitions flicker as highlights pan across the screen since its FALD is prioritizing speed and yes there is some "haziness" around highlights from the bloom polluting surrounding areas lowering effective contrast but without a OLED right next to it to benchmark its really impressive. Even though it crushes blacks, I suggest people just enable contrast enhancer once HDR is active in OS because otherwise it just looks terrible.
Here are 3 pictures I took that look as close as I can get to the eye using a MadVR HDR video file. The G8 (no contrast enhancer here) does look a bit better than the pictures to the eye, the camera is just blowing out it a bit since its brighter than the C2:
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G8 if Vega took the picture:
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The HDR test content isn't graded over 1000nits. G8 is dim at 50% at round 600nits, not brighter than X27, but an OLED like C2 is much dimmer at the same window size around 300nits.Ah the good old because marketing slides say 2000 nits than it really does 2000 nits. I know what a 1700nit highlight looks like after owning the PG32UQX. The G8 gets no where near that. Games with HDR sliders that you have to raise/lower until just as the center is no longer visible coincide with around 900ish nits. Above 50% window size the monitor is super dim even compared to a 4 year old X27.
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My firmware is the same as yours, 1002.1. Got the C2 in today surprisingly. Going to try it out this evening.I'm not seeing any VRR flicker in games. Loading screens yes but I've yet to see consistent flicker during gameplay outside of big frametime spikes like in UE4 when assets load in from one area to another. That same scenario causes similar flicker on my C2.
I was going to test HDMI to see if HDR works properly there but looks like you've already verified it. What firmware version does your monitor have? Mine is 1002.1.
QD-OLED might be better than other OLED. But it is not even close to 1000nits full-field FALD in HDR. The HDR on my AW3423DW is dim. ABL happens all the time. The whole screen drops dramatically after every flash, beam, explosion. A true HDR 1000 OLED hasn't come out. QD hasn't pushed the OLED brightness very far. It still belongs to HDR 400 with only 2% window of 1000nits.
It is always the excuse of 1000bits can burn eyes. 1000nits is fine as long as the light source doesn't flicker. But AW3423DW is an OLED. It has worse flickers bonded with refresh rate which harms eyes in long term.As some who values their a bit, 1000 nits full fields don't interest me much Just because everything is HDR now doesn't mean the ideal brightness recommendations go away.