OC an old 4770k with a few questions

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CrimsonEclipse

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I have an old 4770K on an MSI Z87-GD65 with an Hyper EVO 212 for cooling
(1070 founders for vid card)

In its present config, I'm using the genie to run at 4.2ghz at 1.25v and it gets toasty and throttles slightly at 100c under testing with Prime95

Any higher clocks and voltages results in a very quick BSOD and I'm suspecting CPU lid thermal compound.

That said, I was thinking of de-lid and direct die cooling. Most videos and how-to's seem to have only de lid and re lid tutorials.

The goal here is to push all I can with the current equipment without buying anything new (that money is for a future all new system)

Is there any reason that this is not a good idea?
(It's an 8 year old system so I'm not overly concerned if it melts into a pile of slag)

Thanks!
 
100 is too hot the thermal solution is not adequate. A 212 Evo isnt the best but I have to imagine would keep it more reasonable then that. So delid plus a better cooling solutions sounds like a good way to get the max continuous stable oc out of the chip.
 
Yeah, a hyper 212 could work ...if you utilized a higher RPM fan. Not sure if it would need to be a 3000RPM server fan or what!! :D

I'm assuming you recently repasted the CPU's IHS, and that hasn't helped, if you're considering de-lidding because you suspect thermal interface issues...
 
Oh yeah, this is the base of the 212

cmhyper212evo_base.jpg


There's no heatspreader. So, not sure how great that would be on a delidded chip. Maybe someone with experience can chime in. I know the Asus DirectCU GPUs did something like this, but GPUs are more spread out with the heat, naturally. With a CPU, you could get a hotspot on one pipe.
 
CrimsonEclipse said:
I have an old 4770K on an MSI Z87-GD65 with an Hyper EVO 212 for cooling
(1070 founders for vid card)

In its present config, I'm using the genie to run at 4.2ghz at 1.25v and it gets toasty and throttles slightly at 100c under testing with Prime95

Any higher clocks and voltages results in a very quick BSOD and I'm suspecting CPU lid thermal compound.

That said, I was thinking of de-lid and direct die cooling. Most videos and how-to's seem to have only de lid and re lid tutorials.

The goal here is to push all I can with the current equipment without buying anything new (that money is for a future all new system)

Is there any reason that this is not a good idea?
(It's an 8 year old system so I'm not overly concerned if it melts into a pile of slag)

Thanks!
Click to expand...
You won’t see much increase in game performance even if you delidded and for a few hundred more mhz out of it. Especially with that cooler.

It’s a great time to buy currrnt gen chips and ddr4 cheaply.
 
duronboy said:
Oh yeah, this is the base of the 212

View attachment 505564

There's no heatspreader. So, not sure how great that would be on a delidded chip. Maybe someone with experience can chime in. I know the Asus DirectCU GPUs did something like this, but GPUs are more spread out with the heat, naturally. With a CPU, you could get a hotspot on one pipe.
Click to expand...

Correct. This heat sink is really not intended for using with a delidded cpu.
 
go buy one of the PA120s, 212 isnt enough, no matter what you do to it.
no they are not meant for "delidded" chips, just for lower wattage chips.
 
duronboy said:
Oh yeah, this is the base of the 212

View attachment 505564

There's no heatspreader. So, not sure how great that would be on a delidded chip. Maybe someone with experience can chime in. I know the Asus DirectCU GPUs did something like this, but GPUs are more spread out with the heat, naturally. With a CPU, you could get a hotspot on one pipe.
Click to expand...

Right.
I'm not sure if the chip would align parallel or perpendicular to the pipes.
Probably wouldn't matter much.
I'll try a de lid with new thermal and relid to see if it would help with the temps a bit.
Maybe some lapping to gain a degree or 2.

I'll probably skip additional overclocking. I'm guessing 200-400 extra MHZ won't make that much difference at this rate.

Thank you for the input everyone.
 
CrimsonEclipse said:
Right.
I'm not sure if the chip would align parallel or perpendicular to the pipes.
Probably wouldn't matter much.
I'll try a de lid with new thermal and relid to see if it would help with the temps a bit.
Maybe some lapping to gain a degree or 2.

I'll probably skip additional overclocking. I'm guessing 200-400 extra MHZ won't make that much difference at this rate.

Thank you for the input everyone.
Click to expand...
Lapping only helps with a polished perfectly flat heatsink. The 212 Evo is neither of those things.
 
duronboy said:
That could be a problem. At the extreme temps you're getting, it's one of the instances where better paste could really make a difference.
Click to expand...

Although that COULD be a problem, most tests that I've seen only show 3-7c difference between AC5 and the best stuff on the market.
I'm 20c out of spec here, so it's more likely to be old thermal paste under the lid and/or at the heatsink heat spreader.

I was considering a naked chip to cut out a middle man.

( I mean, I'm still going to consider a better thermal paste for future builds but the point is to get the best mileage with what I have )

I'll open this thing up during the long weekend an find out (ambition allowing)
 
Re-lidding with LM will help temps. Running naked will help a lot more. I did it to my 4770K and temps dropped a lot. Running the same 4.2 at 1.25V like you are and I have tons of temperature headroom on a custom loop with just a 240mm rad.
 
CrimsonEclipse said:
Although that COULD be a problem, most tests that I've seen only show 3-7c difference between AC5 and the best stuff on the market.
Click to expand...
I've seen a few tests where AS5 fell flat at high temps but wasn't too shabby at normal operating ranges. My Gelid GC Extreme packet claims a 7C improvement over AS5 when in the 70s. But even 93C vs 100C... could be a huge deal for even short term longevity on old silicon.
 
VoodooRufus said:
Re-lidding with LM will help temps. Running naked will help a lot more. I did it to my 4770K and temps dropped a lot. Running the same 4.2 at 1.25V like you are and I have tons of temperature headroom on a custom loop with just a 240mm rad.
Click to expand...

Still pondering my options with a naked core. I think I can modify the cooler with shorter screws.

duronboy said:
I've seen a few tests where AS5 fell flat at high temps but wasn't too shabby at normal operating ranges. My Gelid GC Extreme packet claims a 7C improvement over AS5 when in the 70s. But even 93C vs 100C... could be a huge deal for even short term longevity on old silicon.
Click to expand...

The overall plan is to not spend any additional money into this rig.
Although a meager investment into LM will likely have enough left over for the next build so that might be an idea.

I read through a few OC guides for the specific motherboard (I still need to find better ones) and I have been able to boost the cores to 4.4ghz
With games it runs fine, but with Prime, it overheats within a minutes and throttles. So it's definitely a heat problem.
Also re applied the thermal paste to the heat spreader and heatsink (with a good cleaning of course) and upped the fan speeds, it helped a little but I'm either going to be satisfied with what I have or delid.

Still not bad for an 8 1/2 year old system.
 
As mentioned before, delidding will likely solve your overheating issue. Within the last few years I have had to delid a few 4790k CPUs because the original factory thermal paste under their heatspreaders was dried out and no longer conducting heat well enough to allow the CPUs to operate at full load without throttling. After I delidded I tried using some Arctic MX-5 and eventually liquid metal which brought temperatures down to 50-60°C under full load with a dual tower air cooler.
 
I will second/third, whatever it's at, to de-lidding if you can. From what I understood at the time, the IHS was the issue, even repasting didn't do much due to gaps. I've been running de-lid with 4.2Ghz ?v. I'm not sure which one to reference, so here is a screenshot. I just let the Asrock software do whatever it did when I set to 4.2 but I'm limited by my PSU and not risking pushing it further. I have a custom loop with the GPU and a fat 280 rad in the loop and can stay under 80c if my rad is clean. House is a little warm since we turned off the AC.
1662438431532.png
 
A delid/relid with LM should allow you to go to ~1.3V with a 212 EVO 1.4V with something more heavy duty. Lapping and all that other crap should not be necessary.
 
Am I understanding that OP hasn't taken off HS and checked/reapplied thermal paste? And does the 212 have 2 fans or 1?
And how is the airflow for the case? CPU might be hot because you're running it in an oven.
If you can't afford a new system yet I would be cautious about overly dicking around for 200MHz.
 
The last time I ordered a 212 it came with one fan. While adding a second fan isn't illegal, probably wouldn't help much.

The 212 really needs help to be successful.

The 212 needs...

 
duronboy said:
The last time I ordered a 212 it came with one fan. While adding a second fan isn't illegal, probably wouldn't help much.

The 212 really needs help to be successful.

The 212 needs...

Click to expand...

when i ran a 212 w/push+pull it was at max a 3c difference.
 
AP514 said:
I am with the rest of the group...time to get a NEWER CPU.....
Click to expand...

Cool!
What newer CPU fits my 1150 motherboard?

funkydmunky said:
Am I understanding that OP hasn't taken off HS and checked/reapplied thermal paste? And does the 212 have 2 fans or 1?
And how is the airflow for the case? CPU might be hot because you're running it in an oven.
If you can't afford a new system yet I would be cautious about overly dicking around for 200MHz.
Click to expand...

I've reapplied thermal paste.
I actually added a second fan just to see if it would help. nothing noticeable
A second fan generally doesn't help much, a pull fan gets rid of the dead zone the center of the fan makes thus the 1-3 improvement you sometimes see.
I have an old server fan that runs up to 5500rpm that I might try later (needs to be rewired to connect the power to the PSU and not the MoBo and the PWN to a fan header)

I havent had a chance to delid yet, been busy with other projects
 
CrimsonEclipse said:
Cool!
What newer CPU fits my 1150 motherboard?



I've reapplied thermal paste.
I actually added a second fan just to see if it would help. nothing noticeable
A second fan generally doesn't help much, a pull fan gets rid of the dead zone the center of the fan makes thus the 1-3 improvement you sometimes see.
I have an old server fan that runs up to 5500rpm that I might try later (needs to be rewired to connect the power to the PSU and not the MoBo and the PWN to a fan header)

I havent had a chance to delid yet, been busy with other projects
Click to expand...
A 212 Evo was able to keep a 120w CPU at 70c for me. I think the temp problem is elsewhere. Delid may be worth it
 
duronboy said:
5500RPM!! What fan is it? I have an old Delta AFB1212VHE that's rated at 3300RPM, 130CFM. Was insane back in the day for OC'ing Athlons and Durons, maybe even a Celeron or two.
Click to expand...

Heh, I used a delta FFB0812EHE on an Alpha PAL 8045 on my Abit NF7-S with a 2500 mobile athlon. It kept that cpu cool with a crazy OC around 45C . It was a really fast and noisy boy 80.2 cfm 5700 rpm with 52.5 Db. I had it custom wired with a 4 pin for power and a rpm wire for the cpu header, so it didnt run full bore all the time...my ears thanked me.
 
As I was crazy for these fans back in the day, I even tried using the high speed deltas as case fans in my Lian-Li PC-70 case. Needless to say that was a big mistake, as soon as i turned it on and the amount of noise those 4 fans made at one time....it was very loud. After letting it run for a bit, it was just too much and I went back to my panaflo fans.
 
duronboy said:
Oh yeah, this is the base of the 212

View attachment 505564

There's no heatspreader. So, not sure how great that would be on a delidded chip. Maybe someone with experience can chime in. I know the Asus DirectCU GPUs did something like this, but GPUs are more spread out with the heat, naturally. With a CPU, you could get a hotspot on one pipe.\
Click to expand...

Well, turns out that you are probably correct.
I finally got around to delidding, and it.... hotter....
(*defeated sigh*)

Yeah, the long narrow Hazwell is aligned with 2 heat pipes and although I've considered pivoting the heatsink 90degrees, it would interfere with the memory.
I guess I'll do a temporary relid later on and see if that helps at all.
 
CrimsonEclipse said:
Well, turns out that you are probably correct.
I finally got around to delidding, and it.... hotter....
(*defeated sigh*)

Yeah, the long narrow Hazwell is aligned with 2 heat pipes and although I've considered pivoting the heatsink 90degrees, it would interfere with the memory.
I guess I'll do a temporary relid later on and see if that helps at all.
Click to expand...
If ya have already bothered with deliding it just get a good cooler for a delided chip. Something like a aio does well as it acts like a heatspreader and makes full contact with the die.
 
Nah, no money into this thing.

Is there any chance that the temp reporting is screwed up?
The cooler is cool to the touch, nothing is feeling hot.

Is there a temperature offset in the BIOS that I might have screwed up?
 
Final update.
Relided (re lided?) and cranked the crap out of it.

4.4ghz at 1.3v and it idles at 35c and maxes at 85-87 on gaming benchmarks.

Prime crashes it but games don't.

I guess this will do until the Zen4 and its respective hardware come down in price

Thanks for the assist.
 
CrimsonEclipse said:
Final update.
Relided (re lided?) and cranked the crap out of it.

4.4ghz at 1.3v and it idles at 35c and maxes at 85-87 on gaming benchmarks.

Prime crashes it but games don't.

I guess this will do until the Zen4 and its respective hardware come down in price

Thanks for the assist.
Click to expand...
how many sticks of RAM are you using?
 
CrimsonEclipse said:
Final update.
Relided (re lided?) and cranked the crap out of it.

4.4ghz at 1.3v and it idles at 35c and maxes at 85-87 on gaming benchmarks.

Prime crashes it but games don't.

I guess this will do until the Zen4 and its respective hardware come down in price

Thanks for the assist.
Click to expand...
Those temps are too high for 1.3V, you screwed up somewhere.
 
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