NYC Politician Wants to Ban Cashless Restaurants

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Strange, but I always thought it was illegal to refuse legal tender?
As far as I know, cash is not refusable if the business did not stated that cash is not acceptable BEFORE the transactions occurred.

Example:

I go into a restaurant, there is no notice anywhere stating that the place is cashless, and nobody tells me that as well. I eat, and then when paying, someone says "sorry no cash". In this case the place is FORCED to accept cash.

Example 2:

I go into a restaurant, THERE IS a large notice at the door saying "no cash" and the waiter reminds me of this before I order anything. I eat, and try paying with cash. The place is NOT FORCED to accept cash (and I better have other form of payment...)
 

MartinX

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I don't understand why a business would want to be cashless. Electronic payment processing is usually around 2%.
Handling cash has costs associated with it too, just less "upfront". The people counting it and transporting it aren't doing it for free, also cash is easier to steal and to counterfeit (places that do lots of small cash transactions get screwed on fake bills being passed, especially bars and restaurants)
 

4884

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I don't see a problem with cashless restaurant, as long as the customers are informed before being seated.
Don't have smartphone or credit card? Just go to a restaurant that take cash! People with no smartphone or cards are not going to starve because of it.
And tying any particular race with low income is just plain stupid and racist on it's own.

I don't understand why a business would want to be cashless. Electronic payment processing is usually around 2%.
I can think of a few reasons:
1. One tap is much, much faster than counting cash and change for both staffs and customers.
2. Avoid making mistake in cash transaction. This is quite common in busy lunch or dinner service periods.
3. Don't have to keep cash on premises. Less likely to get stolen, robbed or burgled. Not just by a burglar but a dishonest staff too!
4. If cash is accepted, a staff has to deposit those into the bank regularly which is a workload can be reduced. Also if the shop/restaurant is run out of coins, a staff has to exchange some in order to give out changes. Another workload here.
5. Easier for book keeping. And for any errors (for example wrong amount entered on the PoS) the person who's responsible can be easily traced.
6. Hygiene. Notes and coins are absolutely filthy. Think of what those could have gone through. The hands which handle those, handle your food too...
 
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BTW, that is a significant difference between the USA and most of the rest of the world. I live in Brazil, and we (and most other countries) have in their laws - in our case in the constitution - that even if the people may somewhat legally create "new" forms of currency like "points" systems of all kinds, the official government issued cash - the Real - must be accepted for all transactions of any kind and any size. You may refuse credit/debit cards, checks and anything else at your discretion, but you may NEVER refuse to accept official cash.

That leads to ridicule situations, like people paying large government taxes amounting to many thousand of reals all in small change, carried in wheelbarrows, as a form of protest.

However, the government also created incentives for places accepting other forms of payment, mostly plastic. Or rather, disincentives to large transactions in cash, because it is not traceable. For example to withdraw of deposit large sums, there is added bureaucracy involved. So far, I've never heard of even one case where some business tried to refuse cash payment in Brazil and got away with it.
 

Jagger100

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Disagree with the reasoning behind this, but I do support it.
Cash should always be an accepted method of payment.

EDIT: Withdrawing my support for this. TrailRunner is 100% correct when he said that gov't should stay out of it entirely.
I agree with your first point. There are few jobs the government is required to do, one of those is to ensure a common tender is useable within the country.
 

kju1

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I use cash all the time and have yet to run into anyone who can't count change. I have run into cashiers who won't give me pennies, though.
I ran into a cashier that wouldnt make change for me. 98 cents worth. She just said she didnt have any in her drawer. I told her it was ok I would wait. She refused. I made her refund me the entire order and then told her manager why I wasnt going to shop there anymore.

One might think I was being petty but I would do the same over a few pennies as well. I dont slave my ass off working for pennies just to give them away to a cashier that is too lazy to make change.
 
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xmadror

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I rarely/never use cash (cash back credit card for nearly everything) but it should still be accepted everywhere imho.

If you can't afford to get a credit card maybe you shouldn't be eating at restaurants and instead cooking at home where it's cheaper. I've lived on 200$ a week, you think I was visiting some high end eatery on that budget? Now of course that means grocery stores need to accept cash but they mostly do. I don't see how this affects poor people, it may actually help them...
Many years ago I was in a very similar situation, still did not prevent me to have a credit card with a low limit.


I ran into a cashier that wouldnt make change for me. 98 cents worth. She just said she didnt have any in her drawer. I told her it was ok I would wait. She refused. I made her refund me the entire order and then told her manager why I wasnt going to shop there anymore.

One might think I was being petty but I would do the same over a few pennies as well. I dont slave my ass off working for pennies just to give them away to a cashier that is too lazy to make change.
In Canada the penny is being phased out and if you pay cash it will be rounded up or down (to 5¢) so the cashier doesn't have to give those 1¢ back. (paying with a card will use the actual amount)
They haven't made any new penny since 2013 iirc.
 
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Laowai

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I agree with your first point. There are few jobs the government is required to do, one of those is to ensure a common tender is useable within the country.
And the gov't does exactly that. I have no argument against it, it's not even close to the point of this discussion at all.
If two consenting parties wish to use an alternative to cash for a transaction, that's fine.

Forcing people or companies to use physical dollars makes no sense at all and that's what this thread is about. Some places don't accept physical currency...OK. If it hurts their business, the practice will end. If it is a benefit to them, it wil continue. Either way, nobody is being denied something they have a right to. These are completely voluntary transactions we're discussing.
 

Laowai

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Remember guys, keeping the government out of it means that when things turn out in a way that you don't like, it'll be kind of hypocritical to want them right back on.

"Keep the government out of it!(tm)"

United States
Official languages: None at federal level.

OMG EVERYBODY IS SPEAKING SPANISH WE MUST DO SOMETHING!

...

The lemmings can't pay and play with credit cards and other toys that only those who fit in manage to get. Yes, I know it's not HARD to do so, but life happens and who are we to judge what other people is going through anyway? No one is ever going to be able to know the reasons for it unless the person explains and, at any rate, it's none of our business.

So go ahead and do it but don't be surprised when some places start accepting Mexican Pesos, for example. The worthless may be worthless, but there's value in numbers. We are legion!
Cool strawman, bro.
 

Trepidati0n

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I don't understand why a business would want to be cashless. Electronic payment processing is usually around 2%.
Because people with cards spend more than that 2% delta...by far....more like 20% on average.

Second, cash is a risk for robbery. If you have ZERO cash then the visibility of your store getting robbed goes WAY down. This is probably an insurance consideration as well.

There are other reasons, but the two I listed are the most measurable.
 

gunbust3r

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You can tell these governmental idiots didn't even stop to think about how going 100% cashless is great for the city as a bunch of under-reported or non reported tip money would get taxed.
 

kju1

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Remember guys, keeping the government out of it means that when things turn out in a way that you don't like, it'll be kind of hypocritical to want them right back on.

"Keep the government out of it!(tm)"

United States
Official languages: None at federal level.

OMG EVERYBODY IS SPEAKING SPANISH WE MUST DO SOMETHING!

...

The lemmings can't pay and play with credit cards and other toys that only those who fit in manage to get. Yes, I know it's not HARD to do so, but life happens and who are we to judge what other people is going through anyway? No one is ever going to be able to know the reasons for it unless the person explains and, at any rate, it's none of our business.

So go ahead and do it but don't be surprised when some places start accepting Mexican Pesos, for example. The worthless may be worthless, but there's value in numbers. We are legion!
Um right...no business is going to accept Pesos. They wont want to pay the exchange rate.

But yes if you want a solution nobody will be happy with you involve the Government. Otherwise its better to fix it yourself.
 

Ultima99

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Anyone ever seen a panhandler able to accept credit? Just curious.
 

cyclone3d

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I use cash all the time and have yet to run into anyone who can't count change. I have run into cashiers who won't give me pennies, though.
I've run into cashiers who I had to tell them how much change to give me back when I paid in cash. Not worth the hassle / my time to tell these people who should be able to count and do simple math how to do their job properly.
 

Guarana [BAWLS]

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The amount of extra time needed to count the customers cash, make change, count all the cash in the register at the end of the day, and then periodically ship the net cash to the bank ends up being a similar if not higher overhead.
When I ran a register, I would count back cash faster than the credit card machine was.

Way faster, especially if the system was being annoyingly slow. (Which in retail happens often.)
 

Guarana [BAWLS]

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So at one time paper currency was literally a gold certificate - bring it to a federal reserve branch and you could exchange it for its actual value in gold.
I thought America was on a Silver Standard, thus the old bills being "Silver Certificates"
 

kju1

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I thought America was on a Silver Standard, thus the old bills being "Silver Certificates"
Nope. The gold standard was effectively ended by Nixon in December '71 and Congress passed Public Law 92- 268 confirming that in '72 which made it so dollars couldn't be turned into gold. The move to a fiat currency was finalized in '73 I think by divorcing the value of gold and the value of the dollar.
 

Guarana [BAWLS]

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Nope. The gold standard was effectively ended by Nixon in December '71 and Congress passed Public Law 92- 268 confirming that in '72 which made it so dollars couldn't be turned into gold. The move to a fiat currency was finalized in '73 I think by divorcing the value of gold and the value of the dollar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_standard#United_States
We were absolutely silver standard for a couple hundred years. (And Gold standard, too? It was apparently a mish-mash of things.) And they ended variably between the 30's, 60's and 70's.
 

kju1

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Aioeyu

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Perhaps the point is to exclude customers who don't have cards. As many have said, there's no law requiring a business to take cash. Just as businesses have reason and right to be cash only, there are non racist reasons to only take plastic. Cash drawers aren't cheap. My business isn't cashless, but we almost could be. I do $10k-$20k a week in sales, of which about $1k is cash. Demographically, the customers using cash are almost exclusively white, elderly folks.
 

The Mad Atheist

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"classist and racist."!? Oh piss off with that crap. Classist, maybe. Racist, bullshit!
IMO, it's kind of stupid to deny cash, it's just limiting your business you could get. Not like it's gonna be that much trouble to handling cash.
I'll laugh my ass off if these cashless businesses gets hacked or their network gets shutdown.

No law (federal anyway) on the books requiring any business to accept cash.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm
Didn't know that, guess it was only government that couldn't deny cash.

so, no business when network is down?

and why let mega corp track so easily?
Where's the "hacky hack hack" kid!?
 
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Oh look, a politician saying a stupid thing for attention.

I do love it when a politician says something stupid and an overtly political site repeats it hoping for troll points without ever missing a beat as they pretend to be non-political. The sycophant wire keeps vibrating as the world keeps turning.

The internet is the world's most poorly written soap opera, and yet we can't stop watching.
 

Seventyfive

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THIS. Go ahead and offer cashless, but cashless only? What part of "all debts public and private" do they not understand?

This is not a "classist" issue. It's a businesses being fucking stupid issue. Someone with a giant wad of cash should go nuts at one of these places then pay with cash and when they refuse, just let it escalate. Fucking call the cops, idiot business owner. See how that works.
I have a friend that was a manager at In N Out burger back in the old days. For a long time they were cash only. He said the reason they finally added credit card is because too many people went through the drive through, bought food for 4 people, get to the window and hand over a card. Then the teller has to say "cash only" and they don't have any so the food gets thrown out.
 

kju1

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I have a friend that was a manager at In N Out burger back in the old days. For a long time they were cash only. He said the reason they finally added credit card is because too many people went through the drive through, bought food for 4 people, get to the window and hand over a card. Then the teller has to say "cash only" and they don't have any so the food gets thrown out.
This should have been fixed with signage and training. Put a big sign on the ordering board saying cash only. Train employees to ask at the end of ringing up a sale (before submitting it for cooking) to ask if customer has cash as restaurant only accepts cash.
 

Seventyfive

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This should have been fixed with signage and training. Put a big sign on the ordering board saying cash only. Train employees to ask at the end of ringing up a sale (before submitting it for cooking) to ask if customer has cash as restaurant only accepts cash.
Or they could have felt it was time to join the 21st century and accept credit cards.
 

kju1

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Or they could have felt it was time to join the 21st century and accept credit cards.
I eat at some places that only accept cash. They are pretty good but they dont do enough volume to merit a credit card. The owner told me that non cash traditional card readers would take 10% of his business. I told him about Square but he said it wasnt worth the cost and nobody complained about paying in cash.
 

Smashing Young Man

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My wife is black and everyone in her family, extended family, and all her friends have credit cards and smart phones. I feel like it's kind of racist to assume they don't have those things.
It's the old "soft bigotry of low expectations" thing. People like this politician treat black people like half-witted children who couldn't exist without their patronizing ministrations.
 

cdig

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THIS. Go ahead and offer cashless, but cashless only? What part of "all debts public and private" do they not understand?
Apparently you don't understand what a debt is. It's when you owe money. Refusal to sell doesn't create a debt. I'll make an example, a car dealership isn't required to accept payment in pennies, because there is no debt incurred. A city parking fine can't refuse cash, because that is a debt you owe to the city.
 

Raffin

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It's the old "soft bigotry of low expectations" thing. People like this politician treat black people like half-witted children who couldn't exist without their patronizing ministrations.
Soooooo much this! Can we please, please stop putting people in boxes based on race or any other criteria!!!
 

toast0

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I have a friend that was a manager at In N Out burger back in the old days. For a long time they were cash only. He said the reason they finally added credit card is because too many people went through the drive through, bought food for 4 people, get to the window and hand over a card. Then the teller has to say "cash only" and they don't have any so the food gets thrown out.
When my wife was working at In N Out, they would usually let you have the food, and most people would come back and pay later; but it's a lot more common to not carry much or any cash these days, or end up with customers that for some reason never have small bills.
 

dgz

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How is it even legal to refuse payment in cash for small purchases. I'd absolutely boycott any business that refuses cash payment. Fuck youuuu

edit: And fuck the banks, too. What other PRIVATE business is virtually imposed on everyone no matter what. Fuck you, banks. Fuck you
 

Guarana [BAWLS]

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How is it even legal to refuse payment in cash for small purchases. I'd absolutely boycott any business that refuses cash payment. Fuck youuuu

edit: And fuck the banks, too. What other PRIVATE business is virtually imposed on everyone no matter what. Fuck you, banks. Fuck you
Credit Rating Bureaus
 

Link

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I actually hate cash only places or not accepting credit cards on transactions below $10.
 

Darunion

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I actually hate cash only places or not accepting credit cards on transactions below $10.
Agreed. I have awkwardly ended up in places like that and they don't have a sign out front. Maybe the only government interferance should come into play is having to state whether you are cashless or cash only.
 

Cyraxx

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I don't understand why a business would want to be cashless. Electronic payment processing is usually around 2%.
News flash: You won't believe your eyes when I tell you this!

Cash has a cost. Yes, it's true. When you carry cash you have to:\

1) Transport it to a bank. Transportation costs money
-Purchase of a vehicle to take it to the bank
-Gas costs + mileage costs of the vehicle
-Person (paid employee) to drive the vehicle to the bank
-OR hire a service that comes as armed guards to your business to transfer it to the bank for you

2) Requires an employee to accept and count the cash (or a machine that can do it for you and somehow spit out correct change). Keeping tabs on all that cash at all times is a very manual prcoess.

3) Naturally, since the cash is physical and not digital it can be lost. This is why companies like grocery stores have to have an employee that takes the cash, and a manager that counts the cash to ensure it's all there. Even still, some money inevitably slips through the cracks on its way to the bank

4) Money can be counterfeit - expect some throw away costs there too.

On the other hand, a credit card transaction requires a cheap machine (that many credit card companies will freely provide to the vendor as an incentive for taking them from what I've heard) along with a given % fee (<0.5% for debit cards, usually less than 2.0% for credit cards) you can throw away all the costs I listed above and just take credit cards and debit cards. Problem Solved! Transaction automatically goes into your system and accrues as it should.
 
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