NVIDIA's RTX 4080 Problem: They're Not Selling & MSRP Doesn't Exist

[DPI]

All speculation and complacency aside. I ain't buying shit till prices aren't fucking ignorant.

Then you'll need a time machine, babycakes. At a macro level, GPUs are becoming General Computing Units while CPUs continue a slow slide into less relevance. Global demand for GPUs only increases, including the consumer segment being pilfered by pro/industrial/datacenter apps, many of them crunching the numbers 24/7 on even better Dua Lipa deepfakes. Gamers don't see the trees. That's the overarching thing being missed in these redundant "Why are prices still climbing after (crypto mining, 30-series, Radeon 7K, Radeon 8K, inflation, Biden, landing on Mars etc)".

Maybe it won't be until more time has passed for the benefit of hindsight that more people realize we're in another era.

 

[learners permit]

Yea I'm not your babycakes but there is always the used market and that'll be where the deals are in the future.

 

[HumanBias]

All speculation and complacency aside. I ain't buying shit till prices aren't fucking ignorant.

I suspect the used market will be your future then.
It is quite remarkable how many people on technical forums are oblivious to basic facts about rising semicondutor costs.
It must mean it is a lot easier to simply whine, than it is to read up which explains the drop in the quality of posts:

https://www.fabricatedknowledge.com/p/the-rising-tide-of-semiconductor

 

[NightReaver]

It is quite remarkable how many people on technical forums are oblivious to basic facts about rising semicondutor costs.

Again handwaving that the bad 4080 price is very much intentional and has everything to do with steering what products get sold and extremely high profit margins with "semiconductors cost more".

Companies got hooked on those mining era profits and want more of it.

 

[HumanBias]

Again handwaving that the bad 4080 price is very much intentional and has everything to do with steering what products get sold and extremely high profit margins with "semiconductors cost more".

Companies got hooked on those mining era profits and want more of it.

I not not only talking about the 4080 SKU, I am talking about ALL SKU's, this applies equally to AMD and NVIDIA.
Again, ignoring reality to focus on a single SKU's because it fits with your human bias is only evidence of your bias.

Are you calming that:
- Cost per transistor is not rising?
- Cost of creating mask are not rising?
- Design cost increasing the lower node we go?

If not, then you really do not have any argument, only your bias.

 

[NightReaver]

Are you calming that:
- Cost per transistor is not rising?
- Cost of creating mask are not rising?
- Design cost increasing the lower node we go?

Not at all. But some try to sound as if this is the only reason. There is a huge greed component at work.

*Edit* Prices hardly go down. Hence when people gave the green flag for these sort of prices starting with Turing, it was all downhill from there. Then with Ampere/ Navi 2 it was "well I can just mine to offset the cost, no big deal".
Well now the mining is gone and the prices are here to stay because everyone voted with their wallet that it's okay.

 

[HumanBias]

Not at all. But some try to sound as if this is the only reason. There is a huge greed component at work.

*Edit* Prices hardly go down. Hence when people gave the green flag for these sort of prices starting with Turing, it was all downhill from there. Then with Ampere/ Navi 2 it was "well I can just mine to offset the cost, no big deal".
Well now the mining is gone and the prices are here to stay because everyone voted with their wallet that it's okay.

Gaming is a hobby.
You are not required to run the "latest&greatest".
You can buy used cards.
Or you can *horror music playing*...reduce your settings.
You can buy a console.
But nothing you do will change the icreasing prices due to increased design and production (and inflation).
That is a fact a lot of people need to accept sooner than later instead of harping this or that "evil pricing" theories.
The 4080 is not worse in value than the 7900XT when looking at the lines of SKU's.

So when both AMD and NVIDIA are in the same boat, singling out a single SKU as the "root of all evil" makes you looks less informed and more biased.

 

[NightReaver]

So when both AMD and NVIDIA are in the same boat, singling out a single SKU as the "root of all evil" makes you looks less informed and more biased.

Lol, alright. Nvidia themselves are singling out the 4080 and I don't remember many people singing the 7900XT too many praises, either. Defend an intentionally badly priced sku if you want.

 

[kirbyrj]

Gaming is a hobby.
You are not required to run the "latest&greatest".
You can buy used cards.
Or you can *horror music playing*...reduce your settings.
You can buy a console.
But nothing you do will change the icreasing prices due to increased design and production (and inflation).
That is a fact a lot of people need to accept sooner than later instead of harping this or that "evil pricing" theories.
The 4080 is not worse in value than the 7900XT when looking at the lines of SKU's.

So when both AMD and NVIDIA are in the same boat, singling out a single SKU as the "root of all evil" makes you looks less informed and more biased.

Of course, the other side of it is that as prices increase you also have less consumer purchases. At the end of the day, the consumer doesn't care about why things cost more, they just know that they aren't going to spend more than $XXXX on a given product. Less consumer purchases mean less cards that are "used" and available for the second hand market.

It's going to come to the point where Nvidia is going to have to accept a lower profit margin or else they will only move cards to datacenters, etc. We're already getting close when you have a $950 XX70 class card MSRP. The XX70 class card is usually where budget enthusiasts live, and they aren't buying a $950 card. Nvidia can say that they have to charge that because of R&D and manufacturing costs, but when no one buys it, they make no money.

 

[HumanBias]

Lol, alright. Nvidia themselves are singling out the 4080 and I don't remember many people singing the 7900XT too many praises, either. Defend an intentionally badly priced sku if you want.

Pointing out that the reasons are a loot more nuanced than "Company X is a bad" is hardly defending a SKU.
Why does this SKU anger you so much?
You do not have any plans (reading your posts) to buy it?
So being angry over something you have no interest in seems like a weaird hobby.

 

[HumanBias]

Of course, the other side of it is that as prices increase you also have less consumer purchases. At the end of the day, the consumer doesn't care about why things cost more, they just know that they aren't going to spend more than $XXXX on a given product. Less consumer purchases mean less cards that are "used" and available for the second hand market.

It's going to come to the point where Nvidia is going to have to accept a lower profit margin or else they will only move cards to datacenters, etc. We're already getting close when you have a $950 XX70 class card MSRP. The XX70 class card is usually where budget enthusiasts live, and they aren't buying a $950 card. Nvidia can say that they have to charge that because of R&D and manufacturing costs, but when no one buys it, they make no money.

The market will decide what price is fitting for a SKU, not random posts on a forum.
Some people think writing angry words does anything is a fascinating excersize in futility...but amusing to spectate at times.

 

[NightReaver]

Pointing out that the reasons are a loot more nuanced than "Company X is a bad" is hardly defending a SKU.

I mean, I even agreed that there are other factors. But alright. Idk why you're accusing me of being angry. I thought we were just talking about contributing factors?

 

[HumanBias]

I mean, I even agreed that there are other factors. But alright. Idk why you're accusing me of being angry. I thought we were just talking about contributing factors?

Angry might be the wrong word...but you certainly speed far more energy on the topic for someone claiming no interest in this SKU.
And with these words I am going to figure out how to get TrackIR working in CyberPunk 2077, the 4090 was purchased to be used and this interests me a lot more than the price of any SKU

 

[HockeyJon]

That's kind of the point. The 4080s were priced to guide people towards the 3070/3080. If you watch the video that the post was based on then you'll see that the store employees kind of laugh that they're selling more 3080s than 4080sh. That is intentional.

Yes, the pricing was by design to move older inventory, but you were suggesting that GN pointing out that “no one is buying 4080s” is sensationalist citing that your local Micro Centre only has two options. As a counter-point, you can walk into any computer store in my area, say “I’d like an RTX 4080 please”, and the response is “sure, take your pick”, and by the way, the majority of those selections are above MSRP. I don’t think anything GN said here is sensationalist, it seems very consistent with reality as far as I can tell.

 

[Bankie]

Yes, the pricing was by design to move older inventory, but you were suggesting that GN pointing out that “no one is buying 4080s” is sensationalist citing that your local Micro Centre only has two options. As a counter-point, you can walk into any computer store in my area, say “I’d like an RTX 4080 please”, and the response is “sure, take your pick”, and by the way, the majority of those selections are above MSRP. I don’t think anything GN said here is sensationalist, it seems very consistent with reality as far as I can tell.

4 out of 18 models in stock at my MicroCenter and two of those only have one left; at MSRP or right above. There were 25+ of the Zotac cards yesterday and now there are 7. 25+ 3080s are now down to 21. Looks to me like they're selling fine while people are picking up the last of the 3080s.

 

[Armenius]

4 out of 18 models in stock at my MicroCenter and two of those only have one left; at MSRP or right above. There were 25+ of the Zotac cards yesterday and now there are 7. 25+ 3080s are now down to 21. Looks to me like they're selling fine while people are picking up the last of the 3080s.

View attachment 537475

I also saw the 4080 FE selling at Best Buy all last week.

 

[LukeTbk]

Are you calming that:
- Cost per transistor is not rising?
- Cost of creating mask are not rising?
- Design cost increasing the lower node we go?

If that ever happen it would be the end off the era, Moore Laws is death for real.

A 4090 has around 2.7 times more transistor on the chips than the 3090, TSMC N5 had 1.8 time the logic tensity than N7 costing about 1.8 time more at launch, N3 is speaking of up to 1.7 time the density while just 25% more expensive, will see if it really hold up, but I doubt we will see an price per transistor increase.

The 2080TI monster giant die had around 18.6 millions transistor and launched around $1,422 in 2022 dollars MSRP

 

[Armenius]

I not not only talking about the 4080 SKU, I am talking about ALL SKU's, this applies equally to AMD and NVIDIA.
Again, ignoring reality to focus on a single SKU's because it fits with your human bias is only evidence of your bias.

Are you calming that:
- Cost per transistor is not rising?
- Cost of creating mask are not rising?
- Design cost increasing the lower node we go?

If not, then you really do not have any argument, only your bias.

Don't know the actual manufacturing cost of the chip, but going by the whole card price you get 2.78x more transistors for a 6.67% increase in price with the 4090, which works out to 40% the cost of the 3090 by transistor volume.

Hard to determine how that figures into cost. Turing on TSMC 12nm, which still used optical masking, was more expensive than Samsung's 8nm that used DUV masking. DUV masking is 1.25-1.50x the cost of optical masking looking around at sources, and yet the prices decreased across the board with Ampere. EUV masking is triple the cost of optical going by an industry publication, and yet the consumer price of the 4080 "only" doubled while the 4090 is around the same cost as to 3090. I am wondering about the number of good chips they can get on each wafer and if that is affecting the final consumer price on the smaller chips in the 4080 and 4070 Ti.

Don't know about design cost considering the die hasn't really changed since Turing, there are just more transistors packed into it. NVIDIA's reported R&D budget doesn't break down into market segments, so there is no way of knowing if cost on that front is going up for gaming products despite separation from enterprise products in recent years. For the node, itself, the cost is largely affected by available capacity at this point. TSMC has said power and cooling demands for manufacturing smaller nodes is going up, though, which correlates to an increase in cost.

I believe the simple answer is that NVIDIA just wants to keep their margins high. Net margins in computer hardware is typically around 15-20% and NVIDIA is making 25% margins in the GPU market. Their last quarter was "only" 20.84%, but it has been averaging around 25% for the few years prior.

 

[Lakados]

Not sure I fully get it here, it is not just one store it is all of them tracked by pcpartpicker:
https://pcpartpicker.com/products/video-card/#sort=price&page=1

Not a single 3080TI at a realistic price available (cheapest being $1350 zotac model)

Cannot find a 3090 priced to compete with a $1300 4080 either.

Been similar in Canada has well and for a long time.

Where are those must sell old stock of high end Ampere being sold that the 4080 should help by being overprice being sold and where don't try to sell it on newegg, bestbuy, amazon ?

Canada:
https://www.canadacomputers.com/search/results_details.php?language=en&keywords=3080TI&cpath=43
Only new model avaiable is at $1800 CAD, $200 more than the cheapest 4080

Single 3090 left, again priced like a 4080 and no 3090Ti

Canada’s supply for tech is weird right now importers have to buy them from the states then we have to add brokerage, taxes, tariffs, and margins. Any 3000 series card in stock up here was purchased from a scalper their prices will never be good here.

 

[DPI]

Canada’s supply for tech is weird right now importers have to buy them from the states then we have to add brokerage, taxes, tariffs, and margins.

Canada's unusual overall in that it's an entire economy built atop the packing and shipping of animal pelts. Trappers are like rockstars up there but many have never even seen a computer.

 

[DPI]

The next few months will be interesting:

- 4070 Ti FE introduced Jan 3 at CES for $899, possibly accompanied by a 4080 price drop to $1099, or not because:

- Supply of $999 reference 7900 XTX dwindles as planned, and AIBs begin dropping their $1200-1500 OC all-beef models with the 4090 cooler so they can start making margins/cheddar.

I'd predict no 4080 MSRP drop because net benefit of unified pricing with AMD AIBs (soft collusion) outweighs taking a market position victory lap. One dope's opinion.

 

[Gulkor]

My business view, I run lawn care business, I have been running my business for 4 years. I can tell you, Its about making money. I can tell you extra $5-$10 pre customer adds up quick.


Now from my customer view, its greed simple and simple.

I can tell you for fact, Business might loss money every quarter or every year.
When you file your taxes as business you get so many write offs.

Business expenses will be written off and or Irs pays you money.

 

[HockeyJon]

4 out of 18 models in stock at my MicroCenter and two of those only have one left; at MSRP or right above. There were 25+ of the Zotac cards yesterday and now there are 7. 25+ 3080s are now down to 21. Looks to me like they're selling fine while people are picking up the last of the 3080s.

View attachment 537475

Ok, well, I guess the retailers that are saying their inventory is moving comparatively poorly are all wrong based on this example, so that settles that.

 

[HockeyJon]

The next few months will be interesting:

- 4070 Ti FE introduced Jan 3 at CES for $899, possibly accompanied by a 4080 price drop to $1099, or not because:

- Supply of $999 reference 7900 XTX dwindles as planned, and AIBs begin dropping their $1200-1500 OC all-beef models with the 4090 cooler so they can start making margins/cheddar.

I'd predict no 4080 MSRP drop because net benefit of unified pricing with AMD AIBs (soft collusion) outweighs taking a market position victory lap. One dope's opinion.

RE: the 4070Ti, I did see this at a Canadian retailer for what it’s worth. Not sure if this will end up being accurate or this was posted in error, but 4070Ti TUF listed for $1432.99 CAD.

https://www.pc-canada.com/item/asus...-4070-ti-12gb-retail/tuf-rtx4070ti-12g-gaming

 

[Bankie]

Ok, well, I guess the retailers that are saying their inventory is moving comparatively poorly are all wrong based on this example, so that settles that.

Comparatively poorly when compared to what? It appears that people are looking at the past two years and assuming that cards being in stock is the same as cards not selling. I can assure you that NV (and AMD to a likely somewhat lesser extent) are selling cards. Generally in the past GPUs were readily available anywhere from a a week to a month after launch; the only foils to this have been moments of Crypto Mining and COVID.

Rant:

It used to be that you could pick up a new GPU easily at Best Buy or on Newegg (way back when it was good) right at release. I still remember picking up and returning my first 3d accelerator; a S3 Virge 3D from Best Buy (Included Interstate 76 in the box). Then a few months later picking up a Riva128 for the "cheap" employee pricing (I think it was a $200 MSRP marked down to like $130) and being blown away at the massive increase in graphic fidelity in the relatively new Quake (Drivers for every GPU sucked back then and I still kind of fell that everyone should thank NV for really making them a priority with their Detonator drivers). I've had so many GPUs over the years since then and felt the ups-and-downs as brands disappeared and prices increased. Back in '99 we all complained about the brand spanking new Geforce 256 SDR being so expensive at $250 that it wasn't worth it even though we bought them to play Q3 at 1600x1200 at 40fps. To me it just seems like the way hobbies go; they start out "expensive" for those that are really interested in it, then a few companies come in and make it "cheap", and after a few years of solid growth the suits min-max every aspect of it and stop competing on price (after all why reduce your margins if you're reasonably competitive with the market leader?). It is how it is so say we all...

 

[lopoetve]

All speculation and complacency aside. I ain't buying shit till prices aren't fucking ignorant.

Honest question - what part of the price bothers you? I see this a lot - they're far more complex parts than they've ever been in the past, and capable of doing SO much now... I'm still surprised in some ways they're not ~more~ expensive.

Then you'll need a time machine, babycakes. At a macro level, GPUs are becoming General Computing Units while CPUs continue a slow slide into less relevance. Global demand for GPUs only increases, including the consumer segment being pilfered by pro/industrial/datacenter apps, many of them crunching the numbers 24/7 on even better Dua Lipa deepfakes. Gamers don't see the trees. That's the overarching thing being missed in these redundant "Why are prices still climbing after (crypto mining, 30-series, Radeon 7K, Radeon 8K, inflation, Biden, landing on Mars etc)".

Maybe it won't be until more time has passed for the benefit of hindsight that more people realize we're in another era.

Yup. A GPU is a better processor for a LOT of things than a GPCPU. They're powerful for SO many uses and so many users and consumers... people underestimate the enterprise side buying consumer GPUs (which is a significant cause of why blower style cards have gone away - drive that business to enterprise hardware instead of consumer, as best as they can), the super computing space, etc... They're used EVERYWHERE now.

Comparatively poorly when compared to what? It appears that people are looking at the past two years and assuming that cards being in stock is the same as cards not selling. I can assure you that NV (and AMD to a likely somewhat lesser extent) are selling cards. Generally in the past GPUs were readily available anywhere from a a week to a month after launch; the only foils to this have been moments of Crypto Mining and COVID.

Yup. 9700 Pro could be bought a month later from release. The 8800 was the same. 780 Was. The 280 I had was. 6870 I bought on release day (x2! Yay shitty crossfire!), and so on. Being out of stock was not normal. Even the 1080 could be picked up easily early on...

 

[earnolmartin]

Can we all just not buy any video card until it's back to max 2 slot width? Sorry, but the way the form factor is going...

 

[Armenius]

Can we all just not buy any video card until it's back to max 2 slot width? Sorry, but the way the form factor is going...

Not going to happen with air cooling as transistor density continues to go up. At least with the high-end and enthusiast tier parts.

 

[lopoetve]

Can we all just not buy any video card until it's back to max 2 slot width? Sorry, but the way the form factor is going...

ROFL. Yeah no. Water cool if you want it small.

 

[mkppo]

Went into BB Amherst yesterday in the hope of finding a 7900 XTX and they tried to sell me a 4080 for the longest time. I think what finally stopped the rep from talking was me telling him i've been playing a lot of MWII recently and the 7900XTX brutally murders the 4080 in that game and showed him a link. Anwyay, glancing at the backroom stock area where they stock the expensive GPU's, there were atleast 15 of them sitting in the shelves collecting dust. Can't be good for business

 

[Sir Beregond]

Combination of things.

Yes, manufacturing costs are up, but not to the point at where things are priced now. It's certainly a factor, but not the whole factor. Also costs when a new node is introduced is not the same as what it would cost today and usually companies like AMD and Nvidia ink out deals with TSMC.

Inflation is a factor.

Greed factor on both the parts of gamers and the corporations. Nvidia wants to capitalize on "1st party scalping" so to speak. Why? They saw what last gen sold for on the 2nd hand market, and enough gamers were more than willing to pay those prices then.

And that brings up mining. Obviously last gen that made the only viable way to really get a card was to pay out the nose from a scalper. Sadly, enough people did this. Nvidia took notice. But now mining is gone so gamers are rejecting these higher prices set by Nvidia.

That plays into the fact Nvidia still wants to sell their over-supply of 30-series cards which they overproduced due to mining, and then got caught holding the bag when mining went tits up. I definitely believe current 4080 pricing reflects on their desire to still sell off new stock of GA102 based Ampere cards which are less prevalent now, but I still see stocks of new 3080's and occasional 3090's showing up at my local Micro Center.

Lastly, Nvidia got used to big fat margins and they are still making g big fat margins. They definitely have room to drop pricing to be more reasonable levels. See greed factor.

 

[serpretetsky]

If that ever happen it would be the end off the era, Moore Laws is death for real.

Some have been arguing that this has already been happening since 28nm.
Granted the price increase looks very minor (compared to the price drops that lead up to 28nm).

https://www.fabricatedknowledge.com/p/the-rising-tide-of-semiconductor

 

[sphinx99]

My business view, I run lawn care business, I have been running my business for 4 years. I can tell you, Its about making money. I can tell you extra $5-$10 pre customer adds up quick.


Now from my customer view, its greed simple and simple.

I can tell you for fact, Business might loss money every quarter or every year.
When you file your taxes as business you get so many write offs.

Business expenses will be written off and or Irs pays you money.

Businesses earn revenue by selling product.

4090’s? Too many store owners and managers have now told me they receive so little stock of these that they are in the noise of their financial picture. One can’t build a business on selling two 4090s a week.

4080s? They aren’t selling. Sitting on shelves all over here.

4080s prices high to “clear out 3080/3090 inventory?” Uh nope. Those aren’t selling either because there is no inventory and hasn’t been for some time.

So what is nVidia actually selling? If want to buy a performance card, my choices in their portfolio are a 3060Ti for some $600 taxed which is last gen AND several rungs from the top, or a 4080 for $1450 taxed. No options in between that actually can be purchased retail.

Even against 2022’s tech crash, nVidia has done particularly poorly. I can see why?

 

[Lakados]

Can we all just not buy any video card until it's back to max 2 slot width? Sorry, but the way the form factor is going...

I feel this but no
Unless PC cases get way better at moving air it’s not happening.
We’ll see AiO coolers as a standard before we see double slot air on higher end cards.

 

[Lakados]

Businesses earn revenue by selling product.

4090’s? Too many store owners and managers have now told me they receive so little stock of these that they are in the noise of their financial picture. One can’t build a business on selling two 4090s a week.

4080s? They aren’t selling. Sitting on shelves all over here.

4080s prices high to “clear out 3080/3090 inventory?” Uh nope. Those aren’t selling either because there is no inventory and hasn’t been for some time.

So what is nVidia actually selling? If want to buy a performance card, my choices in their portfolio are a 3060Ti for some $600 taxed which is last gen AND several rungs from the top, or a 4080 for $1450 taxed. No options in between that actually can be purchased retail.

Even against 2022’s tech crash, nVidia has done particularly poorly. I can see why?

Nvidia is racing to fill the Chinese H100 orders before the new Embargo kicks in, AMD is doing the same for the MI 250’s. They aren’t putting silicon into the consumer stuff while they have that deadline to race against.
Things are priced to move old stock and limit new purchases.

 

[Sir Beregond]

Businesses earn revenue by selling product.

4090’s? Too many store owners and managers have now told me they receive so little stock of these that they are in the noise of their financial picture. One can’t build a business on selling two 4090s a week.

4080s? They aren’t selling. Sitting on shelves all over here.

4080s prices high to “clear out 3080/3090 inventory?” Uh nope. Those aren’t selling either because there is no inventory and hasn’t been for some time.

So what is nVidia actually selling? If want to buy a performance card, my choices in their portfolio are a 3060Ti for some $600 taxed which is last gen AND several rungs from the top, or a 4080 for $1450 taxed. No options in between that actually can be purchased retail.

Even against 2022’s tech crash, nVidia has done particularly poorly. I can see why?

I regularly see 3080's restock here (Micro Center), but they sure haven't gone below AIB MSRP's lately which sucks for 2 year old cards. But they are selling because they are occupying that $700-$850 space.

 

[HumanBias]

If that ever happen it would be the end off the era, Moore Laws is death for real.

A 4090 has around 2.7 times more transistor on the chips than the 3090, TSMC N5 had 1.8 time the logic tensity than N7 costing about 1.8 time more at launch, N3 is speaking of up to 1.7 time the density while just 25% more expensive, will see if it really hold up, but I doubt we will see an price per transistor increase.

The 2080TI monster giant die had around 18.6 millions transistor and launched around $1,422 in 2022 dollars MSRP

Moores law was never about the cost, it was double the amount of transistors in the same area every 18 months:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore's_law

"Moore's law is the observation that the number of transistors in a dense integrated circuit (IC) doubles about every two years."

If you had the assumption Moore's Law was about cost I understand why you argument does not fit with reality.


The costs ARE rising and have been for a while:
https://www.fabricatedknowledge.com/p/the-rising-tide-of-semiconductor

So higher costs per transistor and the number of transistors are increasing every generation...
I am sure you can do the math.
The add the increasing complexity (read: Cost) of making masks the lower we go.

 

[LukeTbk]

Moores law was never about the cost, it was double the amount of transistors in the same area every 18 months:

Well in both wikipedia and the article with the price per gates:
I want to focus not just on the technological headwinds, but the cost headwinds. One of the major historical assumptions of Moore’s Law is that not only would your transistors double every two years, but the cost of the transistors would decline

Does the average transistor per gates stay the same or they got more complex ?

I am not sure if it shows that the price per transistor went up

 

[kac77]

Both the 4080 and 7900xt are TERRIBLE values and look to be designs made to upsell you to the next tier.

They aren't even remotely in the same position. The 4080 costs $1200 and gets beaten by two cards that both cost less than it. What is more powerful than the 7900xt and costs less than it?

 

[Blade-Runner]

Shipments of discrete GPUs at their lowest level in almost 20 years.

Anecdotally in my (non-US) region, stock of 4080s are plentiful and selling at ridiculously inflated prices compared to US MSRP, to the point that retailers are already starting to discount them. Stock of 4090s are less widely available, but can still be easily found.