Blade-Runner
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NVIDIA's RTX 4080 Problem: They're Not Selling & MSRP Doesn't Exist
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DukenukemX
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Bankie
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My local Microcenter really only has stock of the Zotac 4080s at $1199 and $1299. There are 3 Gigabyte cards are $1239. I think "they're not selling" is a bit sensationalist and "MSRP doesn't exist" is an outright lie.
I would imagine that if they were really not selling we would end up seeing MSRP-close to MSRP fast enough.
If you follow popular brand a la Asus they seem to sold out quite a bit on online platform and scalped really high on newegg.
But I am sure there is a truth to the Zotac-Gigabyte card not selling out instant, I mean except if newegg is lying on their best selling GPU to bring people toward the card they want to sell (possible), the best selling card right now is a 4080:
https://www.newegg.com/d/Best-Sellers/GPUs-Video-Graphics-Cards/s/ID-48
And even at $1,500 if it is from Asus it is in the top 10.
I am not sure I ever seen an msrp one not sold out on a global online platform, so it is not completely false.
If you follow popular brand a la Asus they seem to sold out quite a bit on online platform and scalped really high on newegg.
But I am sure there is a truth to the Zotac-Gigabyte card not selling out instant, I mean except if newegg is lying on their best selling GPU to bring people toward the card they want to sell (possible), the best selling card right now is a 4080:
https://www.newegg.com/d/Best-Sellers/GPUs-Video-Graphics-Cards/s/ID-48
And even at $1,500 if it is from Asus it is in the top 10.
I am not sure I ever seen an msrp one not sold out on a global online platform, so it is not completely false.
DukenukemX
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MSRP hasn't mattered since the beginning of the pandemic. What retailer has honored MSRP? Also, you going to your local MicroCenter and counting their stock isn't anything to go by. There's also the issue of scalpers as I'm seeing a lot of RTX 4080's for sale on Amazon for a higher than MSRP price and with reviews pointing out that they are scalped. I think scalping is on the rise again.
Surprisingly to me would not have guest, but apparently AMD made a lot of xt and even serious brand like Saphire can have them at MSRP, not sold out, on platform globally available online:
https://www.newegg.com/sapphire-rad...on=7900xt&cm_re=7900xt-_-14-202-427-_-Product
It did look like this specially the 7900xt, but If we to both believe the talk about stock available and look at them, it seem they released more xt than xtx and it is a we are trying to sale this for real card even push at exact msrp already to try to sale them.
For some reason maybe they have an harder time achieving working xtx at the moment, it is not a big die but the xtx is a full 100% ball out 100% core used I think.
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/amd-navi-31.g998
Shading Units: 6144
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-7900-xtx.c3941
Shading Units: 6144
Which despite the very mature node used could still have relatively low yield for now
Mchart
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This doesn't make sense for the 4080/4090 given that the supply of the 4090 is not nearly enough, and no average joe can get one even if they can afford it. It's scalped to high heaven. Finally, $400 is not an insignificant amount, compared to the $100 between the XT/XTX.
NightReaver
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Nvidia is still trying to also get people to buy older 3xxx stock. So a bad value 4080 still serves a purpose.
I imagine Nvidia is an umbrella term for the AIB, if that was the case they would sales them on newegg no ?
Not a single sold by newegg new 3080TI it seem:
https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=8000 4814&d=rtx+3080TI
Not a single 3090 either or 3090TI:
https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=8000 4814&d=rtx+3090
3080 have never been that common, the only one available is priced higher than the 4070TI will be at 950:
https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=8000 4814&d=rtx+3080&ComboBundle=true
That narrative always was quite shaky in our just in time/sold everything before they were made with a pre-announced end to the mining craze world, it is a narrative that took and continue to be repeated without much evidance to me, since at least thanksgiving that had no special deal at all on Ampere.
I really doubt the current pricing is to push sales of 3090-3090TI, we do not have to overthink with a company try to get the maximum of money for a product and not let go of incredible high price they enjoyed in the recent past.
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Attention Godless Heathens: Just a reminder, it's Xmas...............half of the stuff sold the past month is likely to either a speculator/scalper purchase "You Want Cardz, You Comes to Me..buahahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAH!" type of thing, a clutch "OMG Think he'll like this, honey!?!?! Does this Nvidia card work on his Nintendo??" present or a "I dunno...maybe....I want to open something under the tree..." type of purchase. The real question is are people who are actually looking for GPU's willing to buy them?
AMD made the problem worse...........at only a $200 difference you're probably going "may as well get the 4080 and overclock it and at least be able to turn on RT"......
AMD made the problem worse...........at only a $200 difference you're probably going "may as well get the 4080 and overclock it and at least be able to turn on RT"......
Bankie
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Lots of retailers honor MSRP but many have algorithms that automatically raise prices if the product is particularly popular. The pandemic was a bit of a special case since cryptomining and logistics issues destroyed available supply which created a lucrative scalping market.
The scalped cards were sold to those scalpers and if people are still buying them then it shows that the 4080s are selling well enough.
I thought everyone already understood that the 4080 was released at $1200 in order to help the AIBs sell through the 3000s.
I guess I just don't understand the issue. If GPUs are too expensive and not selling then Nv and AMD will have to reduce prices; but if they are selling then it's business as usual. It just seems like a lot of whinging from channels/sites that need to generate rage for views.
DukenukemX
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I like how NewEgg has a limit of 20 per customer. It's like they're baiting scalpers to buy them.
Sure, just the pandemic. Not in 2014 when the first crypto boom happened, and again in 2016.
I see a lot for sale on Amazon and NewEgg, but at scalper prices. At prices of $1,300 being the most common price, I don't think the scalpers can sell them.
If that's the logic behind Nvidia then are the 5080's gonna be sold for $1400 to help AIBs sell their 4000s stock? At some point Nvidia is gonna have to drastically lower prices.
That's everything in general. I see some houses that's been for sale for years, long before the pandemic, and yet prices haven't come down. The auto market has record amount of cars from repos that nobody is buying, and yet the prices aren't coming down. This has been a problem since 2008 where nobody really wants to lower prices even though they need to. If Nvidia was to lower prices then their stock will drop in value. So the prices stay high until either you give in and pay their ridiculous price, or wait for the RTX 4060 and pay that ridiculous price. Everyone doesn't seem to have a problem holding onto their stock of products and letting the warehouses stay full.
Bankie
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Just about everything is high due to demand still outstripping supply. Of course there is likely some pricing collusion going on since businesses in every industry are seeing that people will still spend if they don't have a choice. If AMD released the 7900xt at $600 to $700 they would have destroyed Nvidia's lineup but they did their usual 'whatever NV prices are minus 100-200 bucks' which works pretty well on $500 cards but is a while lot of nothing on $1000 cards.
If Nvidia isn't selling cards then they will eventually have to reduce prices or release cards that people want to buy. I don't like that GPUs are so expensive but I still have options: I can wait or I can buy a used a 2000/3000/RDNA1 series card if needed.
Say $130 of GDDR6, 12 inch of 5nm being around $16,000 by now for a good client like AMD, that would be 100-110 for the 300mm chip, 6x36.6 of 6nm if it is at a 10,000 rate that $40, all the pcb, trace, power, displays interface, AV1 xilinx chips decoder-encoder, fancy cooling do you get close to a $450 or so card ?
not sure how the microcenter, newegg, walmart and other reseller want, probably all low margin type of business but still if they get and shipping would be cheap for the content price density but still you probably want to at least stay close to twice the BOM of a card, specially a generation with a giant R&D to amortize and not hurt AIBs.
Bankie
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In that instance I wasn't talking about the 7900XT being a "$450 or so card". I was talking about how an AMD card being $100 less than a $500 Nvidia card is a decent enough price point but $200 off of $1200 is nothing (even if it is a similar percentage) so it's not like AMD is worried about attempting to fix any of these perceived injustices of NV pricing. They're just letting people rage at NV while they profit from it at the same time.
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There's far more to NV's calculus than what you're trying to extrapolate and conclude from a single snapshot of one store's retail 30 series stock, or lack of.
And most of the data and metrics that go into those calculations we have no visibility of as end users: Global, many different sales channels, many different partners, their TSMC contracts and commitments where 30-series was concerned, a ton of stuff gets factored.
But I'd agree with you the simplest explanation in the absence of data likely also holds true: they'll maintain $1199 because they can, until sales velocity either falls below a threshold they have in mind, or 4070 Ti is announced and they drop 4080 to $1099 or $999.
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OutOfPhase
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I hope the 4080 and the 7900XT could at least commiserate on the Island of Christmas MisPricing.
Not sure I fully get it here, it is not just one store it is all of them tracked by pcpartpicker:
https://pcpartpicker.com/products/video-card/#sort=price&page=1
Not a single 3080TI at a realistic price available (cheapest being $1350 zotac model)
Cannot find a 3090 priced to compete with a $1300 4080 either.
Been similar in Canada has well and for a long time.
Where are those must sell old stock of high end Ampere being sold that the 4080 should help by being overprice being sold and where don't try to sell it on newegg, bestbuy, amazon ?
Canada:
https://www.canadacomputers.com/search/results_details.php?language=en&keywords=3080TI&cpath=43
Only new model avaiable is at $1800 CAD, $200 more than the cheapest 4080
Single 3090 left, again priced like a 4080 and no 3090Ti
100%. There's a lot of low-information speculation, absolutism, and what seems like a general lack of the common sense found in 9th graders that didn't sleep through the supply-and-demand chapter of Econ class.
"I saw a few 4080s at Microcenter. Is NviDiA fAiLiNg?"
You're very narrowly focused on a few retail stores as things stand today, and missing the more holistic view that includes both the historical data of the entire year, up to 4080 launch Nov 16 when price was set, and thereafter until now, as well as NV's considerations for other sales/distro channels and partners - OEMs, system builders etc. Not to mention getting the most value out of TSMC contract where 30-series was concerned.
Trying to draw conclusions here based on one dimensional observation is mostly pointless.
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Bankie
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It's not to clear out the high-end as those are already the lowest stocks and highest margins. My local Microcenter doesn't even have any 3080Ti-3090Tis left but they have 25+ 3080s at $780 and 33+ 3070Ti as $650-670. 4080 is just the new 3080 in the minds of the unwashed Non-[H] masses so when they see that the 4080 is $400 more (and over that $1000 mental barrier) they go for the 3080 at $700-$800. In the posted video the stores they interviewed even said that the 3080s were selling which is exactly what Nvidia and the AIBs were hoping to achieve.
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Not sure we could call everything tracked by pcpartpicker few (it is I would imagine pretty much almost every one that sell online) and considering how large those I focus on, they must be quite telling of the overall story, I have been looking since that launch on amazon, newegg, bestbuy (the big one that matter) and the 2 of the biggest Canadian one
Could all be true, but if they add to liquidate Ampere card, the total absence of any black friday deal on them and there constant absence at good price on amazon-newegg-bestbuy, would feel strange to me, I have never seen anything we can see that match with that story.
Those has always been quite rare, no one here:
https://www.canadacomputers.com/search/results_details.php?language=en&keywords=3080&cpath=43
On newegg:
https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=4841 4814 8000&d=3080+rtx
A single model at $950 which is ridiculous.
Why would they have overbuild them that much ? It was selling has fast they could and the mining drop was announced in advance this time and not a surprise. An issue with a giant overstock on the used market yes on the new market ? Who was holding on large quantity of cards when it was hard to buy one ?
Bankie
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Because people were screaming for cards for 2 years which were being produced as fast they could and by the time they were caught up mining died and the new cards were due. And then all of a sudden you had miners trying to dump their used 3000s while there were months worth of new 3000 chips already in the production pipeline. Back during the mining craze the rage merchants were peddling their rage to the masses about how no one could get a card and how expensive they were. Now mining is gone so they need to continue the rage train generate their clicks.
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Minning dying was an announced with a date event and I am not sure how much months of Ampere chips you can even in a production pipeline that cannot be turned around, but mining stopped September 15, 2 months of stock push you to 4080 release date when it did seem to all have dried up. Maybe the announced price was what worked (if there was an issue to start with, outside the obvious one it will be hard to sales the new 4000 with the large used market offer coming from minings farm dumping cards and loosing gamers that were ready to pay $1000+ for a card if they could make $3 of profit a days for 14 months years on it and have it for "free") and now nvidia cannot loose face at cut price at launch.
But I feel that it is a storyline that people repeated, even if they go look for an high end ampere card at a good price on amazon and cannot find one.
But I feel that it is a storyline that people repeated, even if they go look for an high end ampere card at a good price on amazon and cannot find one.
Bankie
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The Eth POS change had been "announced" every 3 months as being right around the corner for the past 3 years or so. I have a few friends that each bought 3-5 3090s for anywhere between $1600 and $2300 and when the last POS date was given they just shrugged and said, "We'll see. It was supposed to happen before we even started". Luckily two of them broke even while one of them got in considerably later and ended up losing like $5k.
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DukenukemX
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From what I'm hearing, nearly everyone has oversupply. This is just the industry refusing to reduce prices, due to fear of customers always expecting lower pricing.
Nvidia probably doesn't see a problem yet. Scalpers have made it look like Nvidia isn't having a problem selling GPU's. I think the real problems will start after the new year when scalpers will be trying their best to clear out their inventory. Most likely they'll be returning their unsold GPU's. I'm in no hurry to buy a new graphics card, because I don't yet have a reason to. Nearly any game I throw at my Vega 56 still runs fine at 1080P. If Nvidia has any plans to reduce prices, the best time would be January.
They aren’t selling well. The retailers have said so. If you compare the inventory movement of the 4080 vs other products at launch, this has been a terrible launch for Nvidia, no two ways about it.
NamelessPFG
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You must be fortunate. Looks like the Marietta store sold out of all the $1,280 ones, so now it's down to a Zotac $1,400 and an Asus ROG $1,550 (utter schmuck bait) variant for 4080s in my area.
While "MSRP doesn't exist" may be an outright lie, it's highly unlikely at best if you don't get a card on launch day, it seems, especially when the AIBs don't seem to have any issue selling their marked-up cards regardless.
SunnyD
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I'd buy a 4080... if the MSRP was $600. Not ever going to pay more for a single component than I will for the rest of my system combined. Ever.
Short of the FE cards, the AIB 4080's are so overpriced that some models actually are in the 4090 pricing territory. Unless you are living under a rock, it would make no sense to spend on a 4080 when a 4090 is practically the same price.
Stock of 3080s and 3090s are next to no availability.
When you are well above the USD1200-1600 range, you are already in a price bracket of I have more disposable cash territory than the average joe. It may as well be get the best. For that few hundred, you have a card that clearly walks away from a 4080 and makes a difference over the lower model. You can drop from a 7950 to a 7700 and save more money and lose no performance game wise. You can do this with ram and mobo too. Same can't be said for GPU. The difference can be easily justified by simply dropping down a tier in any other component.
Stock of 3080s and 3090s are next to no availability.
When you are well above the USD1200-1600 range, you are already in a price bracket of I have more disposable cash territory than the average joe. It may as well be get the best. For that few hundred, you have a card that clearly walks away from a 4080 and makes a difference over the lower model. You can drop from a 7950 to a 7700 and save more money and lose no performance game wise. You can do this with ram and mobo too. Same can't be said for GPU. The difference can be easily justified by simply dropping down a tier in any other component.
kirbyrj
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Almost makes the 7900XT seem like a good value as you can actually buy them right now for $899.
sharknice
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If you watched the video it's explained.
AIBs basically lose money selling at MRSP so they barely make any of the MRSP models which immediately sell out at launch and never get restocked.
kirbyrj
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In fairness, I remember a time when AIB cards were only $30-50 more expensive than reference models even with their shiny coolers. Now suddenly they are $200 more expensive so the AIBs can make a profit? This sounds like an Nvidia problem (see EVGA).
sharknice
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That's correct. Also a little weird happening now that NVIDIA has actual good coolers on founders edition cards.
Bankie
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That's kind of the point. The 4080s were priced to guide people towards the 3070/3080. If you watch the video that the post was based on then you'll see that the store employees kind of laugh that they're selling more 3080s than 4080sh. That is intentional.
learners permit
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All speculation and complacency aside. I ain't buying shit till prices aren't fucking ignorant.
Gulkor
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I bought Evga RTX 3080 XC3 2 warranty on forum here $525 shipped. I'm quiet happy, ill wait get used card for good price