NVIDIA's new Non-Disclosure Agreement Leaked

Discussion in 'nVidia Flavor' started by Armenius, Jun 25, 2018.

  1. Armenius

    Armenius [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Kyle_Bennett
    https://videocardz.com/76645/nvidias-new-non-disclosure-agreement-leaked

    NVIDIA has released a new NDA for upcoming products for journalists to agree with. It widely broadens what is considered confidential and how it is to be reported. This looks to be a direct reaction to the GPP fiasco.

    This was originally brought to light by Heise, who says "NVIDIA's new NDA attacks journalistic work."

    https://www.heise.de/newsticker/mel...A-als-Maulkorb-fuer-Journalisten-4091751.html

    Looks kind of similar to the NDA sent to Kyle by EKWB :whistle:.

    upload_2018-6-25_13-42-7.png

    upload_2018-6-25_13-42-32.png
     
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  2. Araxie

    Araxie [H]ardness Supreme

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    its edited (see below).. in some parts it can be seen where the fonts are just different more crisp and detailed than the rest, also that's not the format nvidia uses for their NDA files. the one who edited it, did a bad job in applying the "natural blur" filtering to the letters to make it seem legitimate.

    1.PNG

    2.PNG
     
  3. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

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    https://www.hardocp.com/news/2018/06/25/nvidia_looks_to_gag_journalists_multiyear_blanket_ndas
     
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  4. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

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    I have seen companies do this sort of thing in the past in order to be able to track documents that get leaked. I know for a fact that NVIDIA did it with is GPP documents, another reason that we would not share those in full. I guess we will see if NVIDIA remains silent, or steps up to say it is fake. That all said, Heise is a large publisher, and I seriously doubt they would be feeding us faked documents as that would result in a lawsuit assuredly.

    Before we shared the EK NDA, I checked with my lawyers on sharing that document. It came with the usual "email notification" that everything in the email is secret. These are useless and cannot be enforced in the USA.

    "This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and/or privileged information and is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorised use, review, retransmissions, dissemination, copying or other use of this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited."
     
  5. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

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    This NDA has been confirmed as very real and out with other tech sites.
     
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  6. TangledThornz

    TangledThornz Limp Gawd

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    NDA means nVidia's Dirty Acts :)
     
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  7. GoldenTiger

    GoldenTiger 3.5GB GTX 970 Slayer

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    I like it!
     
  8. Rvenger

    Rvenger [H]ard|Gawd

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    Man Kyle, keep it up. Keep these companies honest!

    Nvidia is not liking you one bit but thats OK because in the end we get to vote with our wallets.

    I'm sure Jay signed that NDA without thinking...
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
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  9. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

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    I wish the NDA didn't exist really I would love to interact with other game companies usually they have their own forums for that or use Steam's Forums which can be a mine field. Game Companies use Twitch alot for showing what they can show about their creations.

    I really don't know what Nvidia has to hide really I don't think alot is at stake with their Cards unless the next generation is slower than the current gen.
     
  10. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

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    Far from the first time I have made NVIDIA mad. I called for Derek Perez' job many years ago. That was the first time I made them mad.
     
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  11. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill?

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  12. Manny Calavera

    Manny Calavera 2[H]4U

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    Watch

    GamerNexus talks to a lawyer about the new NDA


    "Talking to an Actual Lawyer on NVIDIA's NDA" on YouTube
     
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  13. Rvenger

    Rvenger [H]ard|Gawd

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    I knew Steve was going to not like it.
     
  14. defaultluser

    defaultluser I B Dum

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    And it's been confirmed to be a non-issue. But hey, anything for heise to get clikckbait, eh?

    GPP had real crap behind it, but this is just standard lawspeak defining the roles of reviewers that already exists. Don't make it out to be more than it is.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  15. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

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    What confirmation?

    I just left this comment on Steve's video.

    How many times has Steve been on the receiving end of a baseless lawsuit? Even when you are right, it can cost you a lot. Makes for a good talk "in theory," but it does not address the fact that the NVIDIA NDA is coercion against journalists. The is a big difference between "reviewers" and actual "journalists." Ask yourself this, "Why is this type of NDA just now being adopted by NVIDIA?" I have worked with NVIDIA for 20 years, and never seen this type of NDA ever. One answer. GPP. And they do not want to see that kind of truth spill out again.
     
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  16. defaultluser

    defaultluser I B Dum

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    Did you watch the Gamer Nexus video posted above? IT makes this painfully easy to understand, because they talk with a TECHNICAL LAWYER who knows what the fuck he's talking about.

    And after reading the entire thing above, I have to agree. Having two lawyers in my immediate family comes in handy when staring down contracts, and not going cross-eyed :D

    It's essentially defining Confidential Information as: release dates, specifications, provided by Nvidia,

    And USE RESTRICTIONS
    is just stating you can't write news stories or make predictions about that information alone, without their explicit permission (review deadlines).

    And there are explicit Terminations of Obligation of Confidentiality: for shit already leaked by others (this NDA, if you're paying attention), Anything independently developed by recipient (AKA ANY REVIEW OBSERVATIONS), or was made available to third parties (RELEASE DAY)

    So there are only restrictions on your opinions or reporting of the data your receive from Nvidia. Those restrictios terminate as soon as they are leaked or officially release to third-parties. Independently created content does not fall under these restrictions, so IF YOU WANT TO BUY YOUR OWN CARD THAT's Been accidentally released early, there's an explicit exception there for independent development of the review data by the recipient (and publishing it).

    Much of the NDA is just them covering their ass so people can't use the contents of their press packets for extortion or selling to another party. For those of you screaming "Journalist Coercion," did you ever think that maybe they added this language after someone tried that shit on them?
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
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  17. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

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    I guess since you went bold font it is settled. Great discussion.
     
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  18. defaultluser

    defaultluser I B Dum

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    Okay, I made a formatting mistatake because it's late :D I've removed all bold text except each section heading inside the paragraph is commenting on.


    Did you watch the Gamer Nexus video posted above? It makes this painfully easy to understand, because they talk with a TECHNICAL LAWYER who knows what the fuck he's talking about.

    And after reading the entire thing above, I have to agree. Having two lawyers in my immediate family comes in handy when staring down contracts, and not going cross-eyed :D

    Under Confidential Information Section they define this as as: release dates, specifications, provided by Nvidia,

    And Use Restrictions Section is just stating you can't write news stories or make predictions about that information alone, without their explicit permission (review deadlines), or use that information for personal gain.

    And there is the explicit Terminations of Obligation of Confidentiality Section: for information already leaked by others (a and b), Anything independently developed by the signer of the NDA (c), or was made available to third parties thorough official release day activities (d).

    So there are only restrictions on your opinions or reporting of the data your receive from Nvidia before release date. Those restrictions terminate as soon as they are leaked or officially released to third-parties. Independently created content does not fall under these restrictions, so if you want to buy a card that's available before official release date then you would be allowed to review and call it shitty and publish under section c.

    The only asshole move in this whole document is the NDA itself being confidential, but you know how often those get leaked. You're free to talk about it once it's leaked, so what exactly is the harm here?
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
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  19. defaultluser

    defaultluser I B Dum

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    After talk with Kyle in the other thread, my post is incomplete because it doesn't realize that some sources for your investigations are leaks from inside the company. Since these are agents of Nvidia, any secrets discussed will be subject tot the NDA, and will be subject to court action if Nvidia can track the source of the article back to their own company.

    It's unlikely to happen (leakers aren't often found), but that's a helluva career-ending bomb to be sitting on every time you publish something leaked. I'll change my opinion, based on that look, and support you giving Nvidia the finger.
     
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  20. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

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    I guess as long as you don't go first, no biggy eh?
     
  21. defaultluser

    defaultluser I B Dum

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    Well, the first rule of secrets is you don't talk about secrets. Just saying, that's the first rule to be broken, usually because it's nearly impossible to find the leak among thousands who knew.

    This NDA is more dangerous when you're talking about employees leaking information that you use in an article. Then the pool of people with that kind of inside knowledge is much smaller, so it's easier to do internal investigations and find the source.

    Like I said above, now that you've spelled out the real issue, I'll back you 100% :D
     
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  22. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

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    So getting sued over baseless claims which could arise from this is no biggy to you? Will you fully fund the defense lawsuits?
     
  23. defaultluser

    defaultluser I B Dum

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    Dude, read my post in the other thread, and the one above yours in this thread, I'm fully behind you' I'm just poking fun at your pointless haranguing about not being able to leak the NDA, even though it was leaked :D

    I realized you can get sued if they can prove an employees leaked information to you and you signed the NDA. It's fine for regular reviewers, but total bullshit for investigative journos.

    The investigative side of this site is the reason I back it on Patron. I'd never want that to end.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
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  24. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

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    Sorry did not get the sarcasm. Trying to get done with work and keep up with all of you is more than a full time jerb. ;)
     
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  25. defaultluser

    defaultluser I B Dum

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    Yeah, we don't have to consider all possible sources for your insider information. Good luck man!
     
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  26. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

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    A lot of times sources come "directly from the source," if you know what I mean.
     
  27. Algrim

    Algrim [H]ard|Gawd

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    The problem is knowing 'which' NDA was leaked? Providing multiple documents with different phrasing, spelling, punctuation, etc. are all old anti-spycraft techniques to figure out who is leaking. Hell, nVidia probably doesn't even care that it's leaked but they sure as fuck want to know who is leaking it.
     
  28. Manny Calavera

    Manny Calavera 2[H]4U

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    Rumors say,nVIDIA just sent out invites to PC hardware press,this week for some presentation at Gamescom in Germany. 1170/1180 is maybe just months away.
     
  29. defaultluser

    defaultluser I B Dum

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    Well, Nvidia might delay 1180 a month or two, but what the fuck are they going to do, sit on the GDDR6 that's been ramping-up?

    It's not like you can use it in anything else until we get new game console. And if there's no demand Nvidia will cause manufacturers to go elsewhere, and create a shortage before a single card ships.

    Considering the fucking sky-high memory prices right now, I expect Nvidia will bow to their memory overlords and keep thing moving.
     
  30. ppi

    ppi n00bie

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    To me this rather looks like nVidia's legal department wanted to save some paperwork with managing product-specific NDAs.

    That being said, the wording "for the benefit of NVIDIA" is stupid, and I am sure it could be negotiated to something more reasonable for independent journalism (this text looks rather like something targeted for partner who cooperates on design of refence board or such), because after all, if you signed this, posted favorable review of nVidia's product, then it would be totally nuts to have that positive review destroyed by someone showing the positively reviwin outlet would have NDA with "to the benefit of NVIDIA" text.

    I noted there is no specific penalty, like paying fixed sum for each breach, so nVidia would have to prove the damage ("we had record quarter yet again, but we are suing this guy for damages, because he leaked some rumor" ... oh yeah), on the other side there is no liabilty cap. The NDA does not even write anything about damages.

    I do not see how this could be seriously tight-lipping anyone. It certainly would not cover the GPP.
     
  31. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

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    So... they needed an NDA for their NDA to keep it from being leaked. :p
     
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  32. noko

    noko 2[H]4U

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    NDA is 5 years, looks to be non- specific, goes beyond upcoming generation or cards sampled - vague:

    So after you review the 1180, it is public and all - NDA is still active it seems. So for anyone poking around, investigating or even commenting on a rumour for the 1l80 Ti afterwards, would that be a violation of this NDA? While the 1180 stuff maybe not but anything else spoken to from Nvidia (meaning anybody working from Nvidia as far as I can tell)???

    In other words if Kyle signed this NDA, kept mouth shut until he/Brent reviewed the 1170/1180 and released the review - He would still be bound and could not do any investigative reporting with anyone from Nvidia, also looks like from other sources would be considered rumours. I guess terminating the contract after the review may alleviate some of the restrictions.

    Now how would one keep track of what confidential information was given you if it was only spoken? Some of this I just can't see how it would be enforced unless it was written and a clear copy and track record was recorded. The thing is, Nvidia has the money for lawsuits while most Journalist/reviewers do not. I do see this as a form of coercion to get less negative reviews/feedback and investigative type probes.
     
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