NVIDIA’s Miner vs. AMD’s Whiner - CES 2022

serpretetsky

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They can restrict supply though, buy buying everything available and only tricking out supply at massive profits that support buying out additional supply.
They do not restrict supply either. They readjust the prices to reflect the current market dynamics. Scalper's are not in the business of hoarding products they buy, they want to sell 99% of their stock at a price that maximizes profit, and if that happens quickly that is great. If they set the price too high they risk being left with a lot of unsold stock.
 

Endgame

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They do not restrict supply either. They readjust the prices to reflect the current market dynamics. Scalper's are not in the business of hoarding products they buy, they want to sell 99% of their stock at a price that maximizes profit, and if that happens quickly that is great. If they set the price too high they risk being left with a lot of unsold stock.
Why wouldn’t they hoard? If they can resell everything they buy for a 20% markup, or sell 60% off what they buy for a 80% markup, they are better off buying the extra 40% and restricting availability to get the extra margin. The other 40% can be sold for a lower markup when, and if, the price starts to collapse.
 

Nobu

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Why wouldn’t they hoard? If they can resell everything they buy for a 20% markup, or sell 60% off what they buy for a 80% markup, they are better off buying the extra 40% and restricting availability to get the extra margin. The other 40% can be sold for a lower markup when, and if, the price starts to collapse.
They don't have to, because there are enough people buying them to restrict supply as it is. Also, they don't want to, because anyone they don't sell to, someone else will...and then they wont ever get that sale back.

It's more efficient to just sell everything you can, for as much as you can get away with. Price high, and if inventory isn't moving fast enough, lower the price.
 
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Hakaba

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I know gamers nexus covered it, though their card was shipped with the wrong vbios. So they treated it as the $330 variant from EVGA. That review shows nearly a constant 20-30FPS advantage over the 6500. Also, they covere how it performa over the 6500 on Gen 3/Gen4 pcie, looks close.
 

serpretetsky

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Why wouldn’t they hoard? If they can resell everything they buy for a 20% markup, or sell 60% off what they buy for a 80% markup, they are better off buying the extra 40% and restricting availability to get the extra margin. The other 40% can be sold for a lower markup when, and if, the price starts to collapse.
There are a number of potential issues

1) If you are selling for 80% markup and 40% of what you bought is just sitting on shelves, then as your competitor, I would price at 70% markup and probably sell 90% of what I bought.
2) If I nearly sell out quickly and make SOME profit, I can immediately turn around and buy more product to repeat this process (I believe this is referred to as higher cash flow?). I will be able to go through a lot more product this way.
3) There is a small chance that something happens in the market and I am stuck holding product that might be valued near it's original cost, or worst case under it's original cost.
 

YeuEmMaiMai

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this could actually be a win for AMD consumers not getting bing holed on pricing... fairly smart if you ask me
 

DooKey

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this could actually be a win for AMD consumers not getting bing holed on pricing... fairly smart if you ask me
Well, this thought is kinda nice, but the AIBs are for the most part jacking up prices. So same as it always was.
 

Armenius

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No, it's not even 50% faster at 1080p. Where exactly are you looking?
If the performance comparison says the 6500 XT is 50% of a 3050 that means the latter is twice as fast as the former.

1643226544297.png


That chart looks at the testing suite as a whole. You can see the concept in action by looking at the numbers, though:

1643226707376.png


129 / 72.6 = 1.78
That is "nearly twice as fast," as I said.

The comparison on their "Average FPS" section looks better, ranging from only 1.32x faster at 1920x1080 to 1.68x faster at 3840x2160.
 
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Why would show just Doom Eternal which is known as a vram hog and not the entire suite? Also, 4k is not really relevant to these cards.

Definately a stretch.
 

doz

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Wow... Haven't looked at vid cards much as rarely do I upgrade these days but man.... My little old 1080Ti is still a keeper! 4.5 years old and still strong.
 

Armenius

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Why would show just Doom Eternal which is known as a vram hog and not the entire suite? Also, 4k is not really relevant to these cards.

Definately a stretch.
You were arguing against my saying "nearly twice as fast." I showed you examples as to why that phrasing was correct.
 

1_rick

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If the performance comparison says the 6500 XT is 50% of a 3050 that means the latter is twice as fast as the former.

View attachment 436934

That chart looks at the testing suite as a whole. You can see the concept in action by looking at the numbers, though:

View attachment 436938

129 / 72.6 = 1.78
That is "nearly twice as fast," as I said.

The comparison on their "Average FPS" section looks better, ranging from only 1.32x faster at 1920x1080 to 1.68x faster at 3840x2160.
Are you really going to showcase TPU comparing two bottom-of-the-barrel 1080p cards at 4K? That's an idiotic comparison for them to have made. It's like saying a Ford Mustang can tow a 30' RV twice as fast as a Chevy Sonic.

The 1080p comparison is fair, though.
 

Armenius

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Are you really going to showcase TPU comparing two bottom-of-the-barrel 1080p cards at 4K? That's an idiotic comparison for them to have made. It's like saying a Ford Mustang can tow a 30' RV twice as fast as a Chevy Sonic.

The 1080p comparison is fair, though.
If you want to discuss the finer nuances of the card's performance, then be my guest. I simply provided the link. Haranguing over my summary of what is important to my own bias isn't constructive to the discussion.
 

Nobu

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Claiming a card is twice as fast instead of 50% faster is more than just bias interpretation.
No, he's reading that graphic correctly. the 6500xt is 50% slower than the benchmark. Inversely, the benchmark is 200% as fast as the 6500xt.
 
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No, he's reading that graphic correctly. the 6500xt is 50% slower than the benchmark. Inversely, the benchmark is 200% as fast as the 6500xt.
Gamer math strikes again. Eg 50 fps to 75 fps: Card A is 67% performance of card B or Card B is 50% faster than card A.

"Percent slower" is a nonsense metric. I honestly don't know how to calculate that. Seriously, what "percent slower" is 50 vs 75?? Just use x percent OF a faster card or the faster card is x% faster than the slower card
 

Nobu

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Gamer math strikes again. Eg 50 fps to 75 fps: Card A is 67% performance of card B or Card B is 50% faster than card A.

"Percent slower" is a nonsense metric. I honestly don't know how to calculate that. Seriously, what "percent slower" is 50 vs 75?? Just use x percent OF a faster card or the faster card is x% faster than the slower card
Well, 50% slower is the same as 50% as fast, but you're right, I should have said 50% as fast.
 

serpretetsky

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Well, 50% slower is the same as 50% as fast, but you're right, I should have said 50% as fast.
shrug, they all make sense to me.
Assuming "speed" is measured in fps, m/s , etc (as oppose to seconds/meter, ms/frame, etc)


A is 30% slowerA=B-0.3B
A is 30% fasterA=B+0.3B
A is 30% of BA=0.3B
A is twice as fast as BA=2B
B is half as fast as A0.5A=B

What percent slower is 50 from 75? 50=75- x*75, x=0.33. 33% slower
 
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shrug, they all make sense to me.
Assuming "speed" is measured in fps, m/s , etc (as oppose to seconds/meter, ms/frame, etc)


A is 30% slowerA=B-0.3B
A is 30% fasterA=B+0.3B
A is 30% of BA=0.3B
A is twice as fast as BA=2B
B is half as fast as A0.5A=B

What percent slower is 50 from 75? 50=75- x*75, x=0.33. 33% slower

Lol fair enough. So for the bottom example A is 33% slower than B and B is 50% faster than A, correct?

Just seems weird that way if saying it as nothing will ever be more than 100% slower and something can be many time that faster. eg 20 fps vs 200 fps. The former is 90% slower than the latter but the latter is 1000% faster than the former.
 

Nobu

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Lol fair enough. So for the bottom example A is 33% slower than B and B is 50% faster than A, correct?

Just seems weird that way if saying it as nothing will ever be more than 100% slower and something can be many time that faster. eg 20 fps vs 200 fps. The former is 90% slower than the latter but the latter is 1000% faster than the former.
Not in this context, but cars otoh... :p
 

Endgame

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Well, I see that the 3050 is now available at microcenter. However, it looks like the 3050 is $10 or more than the 6600, leaving the 6500XT in a different market - about $20 cheaper than the 1050ti and $40 cheaper than the 1650. At real world prices, it looks like AMD wins for gaming right now?
 

Endgame

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There are a number of potential issues

1) If you are selling for 80% markup and 40% of what you bought is just sitting on shelves, then as your competitor, I would price at 70% markup and probably sell 90% of what I bought.
2) If I nearly sell out quickly and make SOME profit, I can immediately turn around and buy more product to repeat this process (I believe this is referred to as higher cash flow?). I will be able to go through a lot more product this way.
3) There is a small chance that something happens in the market and I am stuck holding product that might be valued near it's original cost, or worst case under it's original cost.
Ah, but you see, you and I are friends right? And I know a few people and we are already all working together to buy all the stock and keep the price up. I think it would be in your best interest if you joined our little group. If not, well, you wouldn't want to have Guido come for a visit, would you?
 

obs

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Ah, but you see, you and I are friends right? And I know a few people and we are already all working together to buy all the stock and keep the price up. I think it would be in your best interest if you joined our little group. If not, well, you wouldn't want to have Guido come for a visit, would you?
This isn't even remotely happening. There's thousands of people scalping cards. There's no cornering of the market on literally millions of dollars in GPUs.
 

kirbyrj

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I don't see any "Nvidia miner" here. There is no realistic ROI at all on an RTX 3050. It makes pennies a day. If there is no availability on the card, it has NOTHING to do with mining. It is so bad at mining that the blog post should probably change the name to avoid a "click bait" label.
 

Lakados

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I don't see any "Nvidia miner" here. There is no realistic ROI at all on an RTX 3050. It makes pennies a day. If there is no availability on the card, it has NOTHING to do with mining. It is so bad at mining that the blog post should probably change the name to avoid a "click bait" label.
Yeah the card makes like what? Maybe $15 a month if your lucky? That’s a 2+ year ROI at best. These cards went to OEM’s first and everything else second. The A2000 is a vastly superior miner and only marginally more expensive, and more widely available in retail channels.
 

kirbyrj

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Yeah the card makes like what? Maybe $15 a month if your lucky? That’s a 2+ year ROI at best. These cards went to OEM’s first and everything else second. The A2000 is a vastly superior miner and only marginally more expensive, and more widely available in retail channels.

I looked into it and it was something like $0.40 a day after electricity (which wasn't a lot). Certainly not attractive enough to attempt to buy them solely for mining.

I'm sure they are a decent 1080p card, but the 3060 and 6600 (non-xt) aren't a lot more money and offer a lot more performance. I certainly wouldn't pay the going rate for a 3050. Even at $250 "MSRP" it's a stretch when the 6600 and 3060 are "$329."
 
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