NVIDIA’s Miner vs. AMD’s Whiner - CES 2022

funkydmunky

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
3,057
It would just be easier for the government to regulate online stores and demand they do a better job at security and interfacing to the the backend. It’s poor security and design that lets the scalper bots do what they do. Mandating better security and design practices would be a more effective process, and better for everybody in the end.
Maybe they could even require our mandated vax pass! You know Communism for gamers!
 

Lakados

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
5,727
Maybe they could even require our mandated vax pass! You know Communism for gamers!
I’m not sure what you’ve been smoking but please, for your own health and safety stop!

Scalpers and Miners get their supply from bots, fixing security would stop the bots from functioning. Online stores don’t care who they sell to a sale is a sale and improving security costs money they don’t want to spend. Unless they are forced to make the improvements they will not, improving security for online stores only helps us and if they are not forced too they will not as it offers them no tangible benefit.
 

cybereality

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
8,789
Right, the online stores are making the same amount whether the cards go to gamers, miners, or scalpers. So they have no incentive to do anything. And they know bots are resellers are buying, it doesn't take some fancy AI to figure that out.
 

Lakados

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
5,727
No, they get their supply from the vendors and manufacturers.
Do you know how hard it is to actually work directly with a manufacturer to get supply without going through the process of registering as an importer? You can't call up MSI and say "Hey this is Steve from Wichita, I need 2300 RTX 3060, just invoice me to my account" There is a pretty cut-and-dry import/export process on the electronics. Even manufacturers who do operate their own sales branches like Acer have to still go through the standard set of importers to comply with various trade regulations and tariffs. If it were as simple as the mining operations and scalpers contacting the vendors directly for these things we all would be doing it and we wouldn't need to bother dealing with Amazon, NewEgg, Bestbuy, ...
 

funkydmunky

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
3,057
"Again" is the key word in this sentence.
They finally appear to have everything in order. They just weren't ready before. If it isn't this Summer then something is fucked and coin could drop. I would expect smart minds to start dropping cards in April/May at healthy profits and an avalanche of bellow mrsp cards through the summer.
Eth is %95 of card mining. The whole card mining ecosystem is dependant on Eth's money making potential and when it is gone I don't think other alt coins have the infrastructure to take on any masses of miners. Mining will continue for a while but at 100's of times less profitability. Only when the dust settles will the few and the brave make any $$.
 

Marees

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Messages
1,054
AMD has hidden a 2020 blogpost stating that 4GB of VRAM was not enough for today's games.

https://www.kitguru.net/components/...ming-4gb-vram-is-not-enough-for-todays-games/
They unhided it now.

& here is a favorable review (fingers crossed on availability)

If AMD can supply enough chips to keep the Radeon RX 6500 XT on store shelves, this humble, bizarre graphics card could wind up being a quirky savior during very hard times.

That’s a big “if” in today’s world.


https://www.pcworld.com/article/605...eview-affordable-graphics-cards-are-back.html
 

Zarathustra[H]

Extremely [H]
Joined
Oct 29, 2000
Messages
34,077
There is also this tech spot article which suggests that 4GB is fine, but the combination of 4GB and the limited number of PCIe lanes this card supports might pose problems on systems which only support PCIe Gen3, as the system struggles to quickly transfer textures across the PCIe bus during game in some titles.

Who knows though, since they did their testing on an older GPU.

https://www.techspot.com/review/2396-pcie-bandwidth-test/

Don't know why they went so stingy on the PCIe lanes.

It is well known that you rarely if ever need all 16x latest gen lanes to maximize performance on a GPU, but it is usually a good idea to provide them all anyway "just in case" and to support backwards compatibility.
 

Marees

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Messages
1,054
There is also this tech spot article which suggests that 4GB is fine, but the combination of 4GB and the limited number of PCIe lanes this card supports might pose problems on systems which only support PCIe Gen3, as the system struggles to quickly transfer textures across the PCIe bus during game in some titles.

Who knows though, since they did their testing on an older GPU.

https://www.techspot.com/review/2396-pcie-bandwidth-test/

Don't know why they went so stingy on the PCIe lanes.

It is well known that you rarely if ever need all 16x latest gen lanes to maximize performance on a GPU, but it is usually a good idea to provide them all anyway "just in case" and to support backwards compatibility.

Would be interesting to review on PCI x3 after RSR is out
 

rinaldo00

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Messages
1,862
There are 3 or 4 reviews posted in this thread

Stock Alerts, Tips & Tears for AMD, Nvidia, Intel, PS5, XBOX​

All of them were very negative.
 

Armenius

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
31,897
Still better than a 1650?
Looks like it trades blows with the 1650 SUPER until the resolution increases. The 4GB 1650 apparently is able to handle higher resolutions in TPU's testing suite. This would seem to suggest that the limited lanes are, in fact, hindering performance on the 6500 XT as it becomes more bandwidth limited with higher resolutions.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/asus-radeon-rx-6500-xt-tuf-gaming/31.html

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-radeon-rx-6500-xt-pci-express-scaling/31.html
 

Lakados

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
5,727
Looks like it trades blows with the 1650 SUPER until the resolution increases. The 4GB 1650 apparently is able to handle higher resolutions in TPU's testing suite. This would seem to suggest that the limited lanes are, in fact, hindering performance on the 6500 XT as it becomes more bandwidth limited with higher resolutions.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/asus-radeon-rx-6500-xt-tuf-gaming/31.html

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-radeon-rx-6500-xt-pci-express-scaling/31.html
I like that you posted it, but I dislike the reports. I mean this is a sad card that they have scrimped on every corner they can find to shave costs off and it shows.
 

DanNeely

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
4,239
I like that you posted it, but I dislike the reports. I mean this is a sad card that they have scrimped on every corner they can find to shave costs off and it shows.

At this point I think the only way it can be considered a good thing is if it proves to be too ram starved for mining and actually is available at something near MSRP without having to play absurd BS games like we have for the last year and counting.
 

Lakados

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
5,727
At this point I think the only way it can be considered a good thing is if it proves to be too ram starved for mining and actually is available at something near MSRP without having to play absurd BS games like we have for the last year and counting.
This assumes that AIB's want to put them out in any meaningful quantity.
 

NightReaver

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 20, 2017
Messages
1,180
At this point I think the only way it can be considered a good thing is if it proves to be too ram starved for mining and actually is available at something near MSRP without having to play absurd BS games like we have for the last year and counting.
I thought that was the entire premise of this card? "Eh, it's not great but you can have it"
 

DanNeely

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
4,239
I thought that was the entire premise of this card? "Eh, it's not great but you can have it"
It's AMD's objective. The question is if it'll work.

LHR was supposed to help get NVidia cards into gamers hands afterall. 😭
 

Lakados

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
5,727
In a market where they can sell everything they can make, every chip AMD offers is going to end up in someone's card.
That's the problem, lots of examples out there of AMD cards sitting on shelves because people aren't buying them, This I see as a card that AMD can put out there so they can tell people they haven't abandoned that market segment but it's not a card they exactly intend to put out large quantities of. At this point I see them offering more of them to OEM's so they can sell them with new prebuilt systems instead of the 1650 Supers that are being bundled in most of them.
 

Marees

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Messages
1,054
This assumes that AIB's want to put them out in any meaningful quantity.

Ryan Smith of Anandtech is positive on the availability based purely on the die size which matches the RX 550 (the baby Polaris)

https://www.anandtech.com/show/17216/launching-today-amd-radeon-rx-6500-xt

expect to see Navi 24 all over the place. Along with today’s Radeon RX 6500 XT launch, there’s also the launch of the Radeon Pro W6400. And OEMs can look forward to the Radeon RX 6400 landing some time in the first half of this year. Finally, Navi 24 will also be making a mobile appearance as the Radeon RX 6500M and RX 6300M. Given its small die size, high manufacturability, and traditional market dynamics around price, expect to see a lot of Navi 24-powered products over the coming months.

AMD hasn’t made a GPU this small in almost half a decade, when they released the RX 550 and other parts based on Polaris 12 (101mm2). To put it bluntly, Navi 24 is meant to be AMD’s ultimate play in offering an entry-level, high-volume GPU for the PC market, and they haven’t been afraid to make some bigger feature sacrifices to get there.
 

Lakados

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
5,727
Ryan Smith of Anandtech is positive on the availability based purely on the die size which matches the RX 550 (the baby Polaris)

https://www.anandtech.com/show/17216/launching-today-amd-radeon-rx-6500-xt



AMD hasn’t made a GPU this small in almost half a decade, when they released the RX 550 and other parts based on Polaris 12 (101mm2). To put it bluntly, Navi 24 is meant to be AMD’s ultimate play in offering an entry-level, high-volume GPU for the PC market, and they haven’t been afraid to make some bigger feature sacrifices to get there.
We can only hope.
 

kac77

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
2,801
The reviewers are selling MSRP and not what the final price at retail will be.
 

Endgame

Gawd
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
865
looks like the cheapest 6500XTs at Microcenter are 259. At new egg, you can currently add the powercolor 6500XT to cart for 269. If NE isn't forcing them into a bundle to make you buy something else in the shuffle, that means there are probably a lot of them?
 

Marees

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Messages
1,054
looks like the cheapest 6500XTs at Microcenter are 259. At new egg, you can currently add the powercolor 6500XT to cart for 269. If NE isn't forcing them into a bundle to make you buy something else in the shuffle, that means there are probably a lot of them?
Someone(MLID I think ) mentioned that there could be supply issues in first few days. But if you take the first month as a whole, the availability should be high.
 

Lakados

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
5,727
looks like the cheapest 6500XTs at Microcenter are 259. At new egg, you can currently add the powercolor 6500XT to cart for 269. If NE isn't forcing them into a bundle to make you buy something else in the shuffle, that means there are probably a lot of them?
if nobody buys them then technically their supply is infinite.
 

DPI

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
12,176
Someone(MLID I think ) mentioned that there could be supply issues in first few days. But if you take the first month as a whole, the availability should be high.
Guessing a new GPU might have an initial supply issue, MLID is supergenius!

Ignore that clickbait clown
 
Last edited:

Comixbooks

Fully [H]
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
18,506
That's the problem, lots of examples out there of AMD cards sitting on shelves because people aren't buying them, This I see as a card that AMD can put out there so they can tell people they haven't abandoned that market segment but it's not a card they exactly intend to put out large quantities of. At this point I see them offering more of them to OEM's so they can sell them with new prebuilt systems instead of the 1650 Supers that are being bundled in most of them.

Scalpers created a fake demand buying all the cards for a period of time now everything is way over Retail Price.
 

DukenukemX

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
6,152
People will complain about anything. You could give them a briefcase with $25,000 USD in cash, they would find a way to bitch.

This is amazing news for AMD and for budget gamers. A $199 card that is actually decent hasn't happened in a long time. Bravo.
It's decent if you ignore the RX 480's and 580's which perform better. Or that AMD has removed a lot of features from NAVI2 that would have made this compelling. You'll buy this because there's nothing else to buy. Pretty sure these will go to $400.
 

Endgame

Gawd
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
865
It's decent if you ignore the RX 480's and 580's which perform better. Or that AMD has removed a lot of features from NAVI2 that would have made this compelling. You'll buy this because there's nothing else to buy. Pretty sure these will go to $400.
They won't be $400 because you can find 6600s for 469. There seem to be many 6500s available at 259 - if they stay available long enough, you might even see discounts that bring the price to *gasp* 199 MSRP.
 

NightReaver

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 20, 2017
Messages
1,180
They won't be $400 because you can find 6600s for 469. There seem to be many 6500s available at 259 - if they stay available long enough, you might even see discounts that bring the price to *gasp* 199 MSRP.
Pretty much. I don't get the "But you can get this". Duh? Of course there's better. The only new cards I see in the mid $200 range are a 1050ti, RX560, and RX550. All of which seem to get smoked by the 6500xt. There's also a 1650 which costs a tad more. I'd sure hope that $400+ cards are better than this.
 

obs

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 4, 2002
Messages
4,792
Scalpers created a fake demand buying all the cards for a period of time now everything is way over Retail Price.
Scalpers by definition cannot create demand because the card is being resold. Scalpers inflate the price by bringing it to the market clearing price for the available supply.
 

Endgame

Gawd
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
865
Scalpers by definition cannot create demand because the card is being resold. Scalpers inflate the price by bringing it to the market clearing price for the available supply.
They can restrict supply though, buy buying everything available and only tricking out supply at massive profits that support buying out additional supply.
 
Top