NVIDIA’s Miner vs. AMD’s Whiner - CES 2022

DanNeely

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At least on the AMD front the 6500XT will apparently be limited to short dual slot designs. RX6400 might be doable in a dual slot half height form factor (depending on how far below 75W it goes) but won't be readily available to consumers.

https://twitter.com/RyanSmithAT/status/1479210583148748801

And I've received an answer from AMD: no sub-75W RX 6500 XT parts. 107W is the minimum TBP for that product. There will be sub-75W RX 6400s, but those are OEM-only. At best, you may be able to find one in the grey market.
 

vegeta535

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Also, remember that not everyone is as old as us. There are teenagers today that may just be building their first PC. So the fact that there was similar performance 5 years ago doesn't matter cause those kids would have been 10.
Teenagers building their first PC is proabably such a small minority.
 

ZeroBarrier

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I think there will have to be at least one card at that price, but you probably won't be able to get it.

But even in the $250 - $300 range is not bad assuming you could buy it.
I'm sorry, what? You think this is a good buy even in the $250-$300 range? This is the same or less performance then a 2016 card that's msrp'ing at the same price 6 years later. Anyone paying anything above $199 for this card is straight getting ripped off.

oyxyoxmch2a81.jpg
 

FrgMstr

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I'm sorry, what? You think this is a good buy even in the $250-$300 range? This is the same or less performance then a 2016 card that's msrp'ing at the same price 6 years later. Anyone paying anything above $199 for this card is straight getting ripped off.

View attachment 429369
And if were still 2016 and the market had not changed at all, you would have a good argument. I called it AMD's Whiner for a reason. AMD is trying to get a 1080P gaming card into the market that will hold its MSRP and everyone just whines more. Don't buy it. More for those that do want it. Couple this with a 12400F and you have a very inexpensive gaming box in a time when used RX480 cards are still going for more than MSRP we have here.
 

NightReaver

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I'm sorry, what? You think this is a good buy even in the $250-$300 range? This is the same or less performance then a 2016 card that's msrp'ing at the same price 6 years later. Anyone paying anything above $199 for this card is straight getting ripped off.
Lol, sorry. That pre-covid market has set sail for good.
 

cybereality

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I'm sorry, what? You think this is a good buy even in the $250-$300 range? This is the same or less performance then a 2016 card that's msrp'ing at the same price 6 years later. Anyone paying anything above $199 for this card is straight getting ripped off.
Except it's not 2016. It's 2022, and quite a lot in the world has changed. So this argument doesn't hold water.
 

Ranulfo

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I'm sorry, what? You think this is a good buy even in the $250-$300 range? This is the same or less performance then a 2016 card that's msrp'ing at the same price 6 years later. Anyone paying anything above $199 for this card is straight getting ripped off.

View attachment 429369

No one said it was great card. Its a product of the times. I doubt its even much of an upgrade for the RX470/570 users. Power usage wise it isn't.
 

Lakados

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And if were still 2016 and the market had not changed at all, you would have a good argument. I called it AMD's Whiner for a reason. AMD is trying to get a 1080P gaming card into the market that will hold its MSRP and everyone just whines more. Don't buy it. More for those that do want it. Couple this with a 12400F and you have a very inexpensive gaming box in a time when used RX480 cards are still going for more than MSRP we have here.
Exactly, AMD recognizes that the 1080p gaming market hasn't really had its GPU requirements change, anything that can manage GTX 1080 levels of performance here will do more than fine easily holding 60+ FPS at max or near max graphics settings with any of the more modern 6+ core CPU's. A 6500 XT, paired with a "cheap" 1080p Freesync capable monitor combined with FSR or what ever upscaling tech they want to call it at this stage would be more than capable of giving a smooth experience on a budget assuming they can get the parts in the hands of the people.
 

FrgMstr

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Exactly, AMD recognizes that the 1080p gaming market hasn't really had its GPU requirements change, anything that can manage GTX 1080 levels of performance here will do more than fine easily holding 60+ FPS at max or near max graphics settings with any of the more modern 6+ core CPU's. A 6500 XT, paired with a "cheap" 1080p Freesync capable monitor combined with FSR or what ever upscaling tech they want to call it at this stage would be more than capable of giving a smooth experience on a budget assuming they can get the parts in the hands of the people.
I would agree with everything you say here except for FSR bringing anything to 1080p gaming, unless you are really hurting. Sampling from 720p leaves a lot to be desired. Freesync is going to be the clear winner to pair here.
 

Lakados

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Yes they buy pre-builds. They don't build their own.
But that doesn't mean they don't google the absolute fuck out of the components, they will deep dive on reviews, and pair those reviews against the games they are actively playing at the time. They do their homework, whether they are building their own or going OEM the parts are essentially the same. They OEM their first one, then they build their second when it's time for that one to retire, that is the usual path.
 

vegeta535

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But that doesn't mean they don't google the absolute fuck out of the components, they will deep dive on reviews, and pair those reviews against the games they are actively playing at the time. They do their homework, whether they are building their own or going OEM the parts are essentially the same. They OEM their first one, then they build their second when it's time for that one to retire, that is the usual path.
I doubt that.
 

Lakados

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I would agree with everything you say here except for FSR bringing anything to 1080p gaming, unless you are really hurting. Sampling from 720p leaves a lot to be desired. Freesync is going to be the clear winner to pair here.
Yeah, that's one of those trade-offs, probably better to lower the settings than try to upscale from 720p at the current state of things. But if the card can actually maintain MSRP or near to it then it's a fine budget card, certainly better than any APU currently available.
I look forward to the reviews for these cards, I have hopes for them, though I was a littte sad to see the 6500xt requires a power connector, really hoping it would maintain a sub 70w power draw, will hope the 3050 manages that.
 

cybereality

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No one said it was great card. Its a product of the times. I doubt its even much of an upgrade for the RX470/570 users. Power usage wise it isn't.
Most of the market is still on 1080p monitors and a GTX 1060. This card would be an upgrade, as well for new people on a budget that maybe have integrated or older laptops and want to build a PC.

From what I can tell, this will get around RX 570 level performance, maybe RX 580 at the most (but I doubt it). So you have a solid 1080p max settings or high/medium settings 144Hz.

I think with how cheap 1080p high refresh FreeSync monitors are these days, it would be an upgrade, even for someone on a GTX 1060, to get this card and a new 1080p monitor for $200 or whatever.

Sadly, I don't think FSR can help. FSR works great at high resolution, for example 1440p -> 4K or even 1080p -> 1440p. If you are at 1080p already, then dropping down to 720p looks rather bad.
 

Lakados

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LOL! Tell me you are joking. I don't see that happening in any way, shape, or form. But I guess we can all wish it would happen.
It is going to come down to if they use a 128 or 192 bus, the A2000 at 68w averages smack in the middle of a 1080 and a 1080TI in games. The A2000 is what I would expect the 3050 desktop variant to be unless they have just taken the 3050 laptop variant and slapped it on its own PCB so they can later announce the 192 version as the 3050TI which would be shitty enough of a move to make me think that it is right up NVidia's alley.
 

ZeroBarrier

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And if were still 2016 and the market had not changed at all, you would have a good argument. I called it AMD's Whiner for a reason. AMD is trying to get a 1080P gaming card into the market that will hold its MSRP and everyone just whines more. Don't buy it. More for those that do want it. Couple this with a 12400F and you have a very inexpensive gaming box in a time when used RX480 cards are still going for more than MSRP we have here.
Don't worry, I won't. I'm not going anywhere near one of these with a 10 foot pole. And you're assuming that these card will be sold at msrp, which they won't. We all know that.
One thing I am fearing here is that AIBs will start adding on unneeded fans, coolers, RGB, and whatever else to push the prices up. :\
Absolutely, hence my opinion about paying $250-$300 for these being completely asinine.
Lol, sorry. That pre-covid market has set sail for good.
Not a reason to allow any company to swindle you, period. Vote with your wallet; I do.
As if they aren't already spreading rgb cancer onto every other product in their lineup?
How else will they get gamers to plop down $300 for this? I just wish they would allow users to turn the damn lights off by default without having to install on constantly run their bloatware.
Except it's not 2016. It's 2022, and quite a lot in the world has changed. So this argument doesn't hold water.
Enjoy getting swindled. Seems you've already made up your mind on that.
Exactly, AMD recognizes that the 1080p gaming market hasn't really had its GPU requirements change, anything that can manage GTX 1080 levels of performance here will do more than fine easily holding 60+ FPS at max or near max graphics settings with any of the more modern 6+ core CPU's. A 6500 XT, paired with a "cheap" 1080p Freesync capable monitor combined with FSR or what ever upscaling tech they want to call it at this stage would be more than capable of giving a smooth experience on a budget assuming they can get the parts in the hands of the people.
Big assumption there. Their dGPU shipments haven't been looking all that great.

tMARednSjQTA9Vj3LX2hSM.png
 

FrgMstr

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It is going to come down to if they use a 128 or 192 bus, the A2000 at 68w averages smack in the middle of a 1080 and a 1080TI in games. The A2000 is what I would expect the 3050 desktop variant to be unless they have just taken the 3050 laptop variant and slapped it on its own PCB so they can later announce the 192 version as the 3050TI which would be shitty enough of a move to make me think that it is right up NVidia's alley.
I think no 6-pin would have been marketed to if that was the case. Leaks are suggesting 130W board power....

1641585697326.png
 

Lakados

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Big assumption there. Their dGPU shipments haven't been looking all that great.
No their dGPU's exist so they can maintain a foothold and nothing more, they are expensive to produce and don't command a great margin when compared to their desktop, and workstation CPU's. Not to mention all their OEM contracts Sony and Microsoft basically make up half of everything they ship out at this stage. As long as TSMC is constrained and AMD has the console contracts then the dGPU's being their lowest margin product will bear the brunt of that constraint burden. This is why AMD makes limited launches of their higher-end cards, then uses the low end where the most of the sales are to maintain a market presence where the smaller dyes have a better margin comparatively so they can make up for the lack of large margins with numbers and keep shareholders happy.
 

cybereality

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Enjoy getting swindled. Seems you've already made up your mind on that.
Well, I already got swindled. I paid $1,600 for a 6800 XT on eBay. Too late for that.

Honestly, I don't care. I'm not going to sit here complaining about the economy or the post-covid world, or whatever. It is what is it and I have no control over that.

But what I do have control over is how I spend my money. So I built a new PC and spent around $4,000. I don't care. You can wait for things to "go back to normal", for all I know we'll all be dead in a year.

Would rather spend my last year on Earth with a banging PC and enjoy life. You can't take your money to the grave.
 

Lakados

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I think no 6-pin would have been marketed to if that was the case. Leaks are suggesting 130W board power....

View attachment 429394
Then I am very very confused by this card.......

Stock exists on the A2000's not going to hold out hope on the 3050's then, the order is placed on the 6 of them and they should be shipping early next week. Done and done.

Just gotta hit up Amazon for some mini DP to HDMI adapters so they work with the monitors they already have.
 

Derangel

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Don't worry, I won't. I'm not going anywhere near one of these with a 10 foot pole. And you're assuming that these card will be sold at msrp, which they won't. We all know that.

Absolutely, hence my opinion about paying $250-$300 for these being completely asinine.

Not a reason to allow any company to swindle you, period. Vote with your wallet; I do.

How else will they get gamers to plop down $300 for this? I just wish they would allow users to turn the damn lights off by default without having to install on constantly run their bloatware.

Enjoy getting swindled. Seems you've already made up your mind on that.

Big assumption there. Their dGPU shipments haven't been looking all that great.

View attachment 429392

It sucks that things are the way they are right now, but it is what it is. No one is being “swindled” here. It’s the unfortunate reality of the current GPU market as a result of everything going on in the world. Even at $250-$300 it’s a better buy than most of the other cards that can be found on the used market for that price, to say nothing of the new market.
 

cybereality

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Yes, people just need to accept that this is a new world. The old rules do not apply.
 

cybereality

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This is why I love AMD. They actually care about gamers and their customers. And Frank Azor is an honest guy, I trust him.
 

DPI

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People will complain about anything. You could give them a briefcase with $25,000 USD in cash, they would find a way to bitch.

This is amazing news for AMD and for budget gamers. A $199 card that is actually decent hasn't happened in a long time. Bravo.
Somehow I don't think "bravo" would be the word being tossed around if it was the reverse and "Ngreedia" had the 4GB GPU while AMD had the 8GB. It'd be predictable rage for multiple pages, if we're being honest. Beyond boring brand loyalty fanboy noise, the expectations of each company just seem to be different.

Regardless both of these offerings from both companies are good and they add something to the space. My hope is for AMD to have a monster of a 7000 series that gives Jensen night sweats.
 

Endgame

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Heck, if 4GB really works to deter miners, the college kids next door to me would probably buy a 6700 with 4GB of Ram. They are only using 1080p monitors anyway, but are using a 980ti for one of them and a 1050ti for the other.
 
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