NVIDIA's Fermi GF100 Facts & Opinions @ [H]

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because it is a requirement of DX11....DX11 is a very specific format...hence the reason nvidia and ati were both somewhat "limited" in what they could do with, or build into, the hardware. here read these articles, (there is 5 links inside this engaget article) and youll get a better idea of FERMI, and why they built it to be BIGGGGG on geometry performance. (which is the whole reason for the new architecture, and polymorph engine)

you can google dx11 to find the format specifications
 
GORANKAR said:
He is prolly questioning your belief that tesselation will be a requirement for DX11 games.
Tesselation is a requirement for the cards, but prolly not the games themselves.


What we actually know is pretty much nothing. Just guesses, speculation and Nv's claims.

History has taught me that when Nv or Ati make claims like "XX% faster" they actually mean "XX% faster in a best case, you will never see this in real life, situation."
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if a game doesnt use all of the dx11 hardware...then its not a true dx11 game...

i think thats kinda a moot point though...all games are gonna use tessalation and dx11 lighting effects etc...its just a matter of how much of it are they gonna use...with fermi you be able to use higher detail becuase you can process it faster.
 
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XCLR82XTC said:
because it is a requirement of DX11....DX11 is a very specific format...hence the reason nvidia and ati were both somewhat "limited" in what they could do with, or build into, the hardware. here read these articles, (there is 5 links inside this engaget article) and youll get a better idea of FERMI, and why they built it to be BIGGGGG on geometry performance. (which is the whole reason for the new architecture, and polymorph engine)

you can google dx11 to find the format specifications
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Better geometery is something I've been looking forward to for years. Maybe this time it will actually happen. It's distrubing how LITTLE improvement we've made in the geo-deparment from FFVII.
 
vengence said:
Better geometery is something I've been looking forward to for years. Maybe this time it will actually happen. It's distrubing how LITTLE improvement we've made in the geo-deparment from FFVII.
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I know, almost no progress.

ffVII_3_after.jpg


mass-effect-2-20090617000150116_640w.jpg
 
^ Heh, that picture above reminded me of those pre-rendered background era.

I was WOWed when I played Resident Evil 3 and Parasite Eve 2. Of course back then I didnt know why the background looked realistic and movable objects looked so pixelated and can easily be spotted.
 
yeah im not finding anything difinitive, but nvidia's own site says fermi has "full ecc support" so unless where talking about a change at the chip level......

im assuming its gonna be a matter of not including ECC tools in the game developers bag o tricks, while including it for GPGPU app developers......but hellifiknow
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As I said earlier, the tesla version has ecc support but the geforce version of fermi doesn't, so they are technically correct in saying that. Believe it or not the geforce and tesla versions of fermi are actually different chips on a hardware level, they are just both based off the same general architecture. If you want more info on this just read the GF100 whitepages NOT THE FERMI WHITEPAGES. It's all in there, but keep in mind that the fermi whitepages details the tesla version while the gf100 whitepages details the geforce version. Want me to upload and post a link of the gf100 whitepages?

I know, almost no progress.
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While programmable shading has allowed PC games to mimic film in per-pixel effects, geometric realism
has lagged behind. The most advanced PC games today use one to two million polygons per frame. By
contrast, a typical frame in a computer generated film uses hundreds of millions of polygons. This
disparity can be partly traced to hardware—while the number of pixel shaders has grown from one to
many hundreds, the triangle setup engine has remained a singular unit, greatly affecting the relative pixel
versus geometry processing capabilities of today’s GPUs. For example, the GeForce GTX 285 has more
than 150× the shading horsepower of the GeForce FX, but less than 3× the geometry processing rate.
The outcome is such that pixels are shaded meticulously, but geometric detail is comparatively modest.
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Straight out of the gf100 whitepages. You have to admit, shaders have become amazing these days but textures and geometries have really lagged behind. That's not to say that poly counts and texture reolutions haven't improved over the last decade but compared to shaders their progress has been wwwwaaayyyy behind, just take a look at any game that you think has good graphics quality today and turn off the shaders, you'll see how the shaders effectively mask the piss poor texture and geometry quality (cod4, shattered horizon, crysis are all great examples that I have used).
 
thanks for the explanation NV, i think that was my err in not reading the gf100 white pages, i only read the fermi ones...didnt think to look for a gf 100 whitepage but i will go read it now.

thanks!
 
NaturalViolence said:
Straight out of the gf100 whitepages. You have to admit, shaders have become amazing these days but textures and geometries have really lagged behind. That's not to say that poly counts and texture reolutions haven't improved over the last decade but compared to shaders their progress has been wwwwaaayyyy behind, just take a look at any game that you think has good graphics quality today and turn off the shaders, you'll see how the shaders effectively mask the piss poor texture and geometry quality (cod4, shattered horizon, crysis are all great examples that I have used).
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Pretty much. That game is 13 years old. Is that really 13 years of geometry advancement? On an 18 month cycle count we should have 400 times better geo.
 
vengence said:
Pretty much. That game is 13 years old. Is that really 13 years of geometry advancement? On an 18 month cycle count we should have 400 times better geo.
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i would argue that it is 400 times better lol.

we need carbon nanotubes....now.

i cant wait until we hit the age when developers no longer have to consider "whether it will even run"

im ready for 3d everything, 120hz refresh on everything, and an image that makes you think your looking out your kitchen window.....then ill be happy.


anyways, back to fermi. lol
 
Nvidia Twitter said:
"Fun Fact of the Week: GeForce GTX 480 and GeForce GTX 470 will be the names of the first two GPUs shipped based on our new GF100 chip!"
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Screw the 300-series!

I'm'a gonna keep calling it Fermi, if no one objects.

EDIT: Source: Tom's Hardware.
 
JCDenton said:
I know, almost no progress.
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The texturing and lighting is throwing you off. In both pics the walls and floor are pretty much flat shaded polygons with textures to simulate detail. So yeah, it is almost no progress.
 
Perhaps I should clarify my previous statement. Over the last 8-9 years geometry and texture quality has had little improvement in comparison to shaders. However if you compare a game from 13 years ago with a modern game than sure the graphics will show significant improvement in both textures and poly counts. After all, before 1999 (which if I remember correctly is when we started getting pixel shaders) those were the two biggest factors in graphical quality since we didn't have shaders, so it really depends on what era your talking about. The disparity started getting even worse after we got programmable shaders. Another thing I forgot to mention is that the inferior poly counts and texture resolutions are far less noticeable in lower resolutions, and since the PS3 and xbox360 render most games at 1280 x 720 it really is difficult to tell. Even more so with the wii, not sure how many of you out there use the dolphin emulator but I've been using it to play the metroid prime games at 1920 x 1200 and I can tell you the poly counts and texture resolutions are abysmal. But running it on my gamecube on my old crt at 640 x 480 it's completely impossible to tell. I think fermi is definitely a huge risk factor for nvidia but it will benefit them in the long run because if ATI does not change their gpu's geometry pipeline to parallel (you know what I meant to say) soon than over the years the disparity between the geometry throughput of nvidia and ati cards will grow to ridiculous numbers, so I hope for their sake that they make that change with the 6000 series. However in the short term it won't matter very much as long as ati makes the change by this time next year.
 
UGH.....I'm so sick of this I'm ready to fucking scream.

Where are the fucking cards already?

Why isn't there some big wig's, or chairmen, or shareholders slamming their fists' down on the table and telling Nvidia to get some fucking cards out of the front door.

They must be losing tons of money....tons. What the hell is wrong with them over there?

Do you hear me Nvidia? Start selling us this shit you've been boasting (but only showing in house demos) about so we can buy them, or buy the (hopefully) cheaper priced ATi if what you've got turns out to be garbage.

I'd be furious if I was upper management over there and I'd sure as fuck be all over every project managers ass that was on this thing.

\rant
 
The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain.

Anyway, I am pretty excited to see if the Fermi architecture is a success or a failure.
 
UGH.....I'm so sick of this I'm ready to fucking scream.

Where are the fucking cards already?

Why isn't there some big wig's, or chairmen, or shareholders slamming their fists' down on the table and telling Nvidia to get some fucking cards out of the front door.

They must be losing tons of money....tons. What the hell is wrong with them over there?

Do you hear me Nvidia? Start selling us this shit you've been boasting (but only showing in house demos) about so we can buy them, or buy the (hopefully) cheaper priced ATi if what you've got turns out to be garbage.

I'd be furious if I was upper management over there and I'd sure as fuck be all over every project managers ass that was on this thing.
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They can't just "speed it up" if they want to. I would like to take this opportunity to quote something that made me laugh hysterically and also happens to explain this perfectly:

I asked two people at NVIDIA why Fermi is late; NVIDIA's VP of Product Marketing, Ujesh Desai and NVIDIA's VP of GPU Engineering, Jonah Alben. Ujesh responded: because designing GPUs this big is "fucking hard".
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And their are shareholders slamming their fists down but their is nothing nvidia can do about it, it's not ready yet, simple as that.
 
NaturalViolence said:
They can't just "speed it up" if they want to. I would like to take this opportunity to quote something that made me laugh hysterically and also happens to explain this perfectly:



And their are shareholders slamming their fists down but their is nothing nvidia can do about it, it's not ready yet, simple as that.
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I'm not aiming this rant at you, but no, it isn't as simple as that.

They have deadlines for each part of the project and if the deadlines don't get met something is wrong so management should get people in there that can get the job done to spec, within the allotted time.

The need to bring the Donald in there. I could just hear him....... "You're fired!!" lol
 
realitycheck said:
They have deadlines for each part of the project and if the deadlines don't get met something is wrong so management should get people in there that can get the job done to spec, within the allotted time.

The need to bring the Donald in there. I could just hear him....... "You're fired!!" lol
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You don't have a clue what it feels like to go through a development cycle and have an unforeseen obstacle occur that delays your release date.

Why not just order people to work harder? Why not just hire more people? :rolleyes:
 
I once had a boss who enjoyed demanding the impossible. He ended up with no employees, and not because he fired us. It's easy to sit on one's ass behind a cushy desk in a corner office and set unrealistic time lines. Unless the bigwig at Nvidia wants to spend his nights hopelessly trying to piece together a GPU with the help of his temp secretary and the guy who replaces urinal pucks, I imagine Fermi will be released "when it's ready".
 
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Guys, arguing the facts and your own opinions is a very welcome activity here. Just avoid insulting each other please, and stick to the thread topic.
 
This thread is done thanks to the idiots above that think this is their playground of us to watch them act like children.
 
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