Nvidia’s ARM acquisition is stalled

If Nvidia is paying 40 billion for Arm which currently can't make a profit and when they did it was virtually nothing. Ask yourself, how is Nvidia going to reclaim and make a profit exceeding 40 billion? It would have to change, can't keep with the current state. Shareholders would push for something dealing with ARM to make not only a profit but major profits. Licensing is not that profitable. So what could Nvidia do with ARM that has not been done before to increase it's value and how would that affect the companies using ARM designs for their products? I would think the license would include royalties for each product sold, as in 5% or more with any Nvidia tech used. Nvidia tech maybe worth it but I suspect you will have to pay for it more than a license. It well maybe tangle together, as in ARM you also get a little bit of Nvidia with it and a price tag for the Nvidia part. Of course the ARM processor will be tailored (conjecture) to work best with the Nvidia add on which if not used will put your product at a severe disadvantage. Bottom line, Nvidia has to have some idea/plan to make a 40 Billion $ purchase worth it and get back more than the cost for ARM.
 
Yes, Nvidia is not just throwing money away. Surely they have a plan. But I think it can be beneficial. We'll see.
 
If Nvidia is paying 40 billion for Arm which currently can't make a profit and when they did it was virtually nothing. Ask yourself, how is Nvidia going to reclaim and make a profit exceeding 40 billion? It would have to change, can't keep with the current state. Shareholders would push for something dealing with ARM to make not only a profit but major profits. Licensing is not that profitable. So what could Nvidia do with ARM that has not been done before to increase it's value and how would that affect the companies using ARM designs for their products? I would think the license would include royalties for each product sold, as in 5% or more with any Nvidia tech used. Nvidia tech maybe worth it but I suspect you will have to pay for it more than a license. It well maybe tangle together, as in ARM you also get a little bit of Nvidia with it and a price tag for the Nvidia part. Of course the ARM processor will be tailored (conjecture) to work best with the Nvidia add on which if not used will put your product at a severe disadvantage. Bottom line, Nvidia has to have some idea/plan to make a 40 Billion $ purchase worth it and get back more than the cost for ARM.

I think they might transition from just licensing the architecture to full on selling the SoC + reference board designs, also maybe custom board design for partners ala Nintendo. Licensing would then be reserved for the really big boys that want customization that nobody else cares to afford, aka Samsung, Google. What if instead of Snapdragons, you get Tegra in phones? DLSS on phones would be a killer.

If they do integrate their GPU tech into future ARM architectures, that will mean CUDA/AI tech widely available across all major SaaS platforms.

Also, owning ARM would allow them flexibility in the API and architecture design, and being able to do this will give them more influence in the OS space, just like with their GPU designs and DirectX. That in itself is a big competitive advantage.
 
Apple doesn’t pay much at all for licensing, they own an architectural license which lets them develop their own silicon and it’s a flat fee something like $20M a year.
You think that's OK considering how much Apple has profited from ARM?
SoftBank has managed to destroy every tech company they have purchased through a series of administrative blunders and mis management.
I hear this a lot but ARM should make so much money right now that it's not even possible to go under.
But ARM only made some 1.4 B in revenue over the entirety of 2020, Apple spends far more than that on R&D to keep themselves ahead of the competition. Samsung is in a similar boat, ARM’s actual designs are pretty non competitive and it’s the custom SOC’s that make up the bulk of the sales. And unlike the normal licensed cores ARM doesn’t get a cut of those.
Sounds like Apple and Samsung need to start paying more, among others.
 
You think that's OK considering how much Apple has profited from ARM?

I hear this a lot but ARM should make so much money right now that it's not even possible to go under.

Sounds like Apple and Samsung need to start paying more, among others.

Why should they pay more? They are paying the amount specified by the licensing contracts they signed, licensing contracts that get frequently renewed, and that SoftBank has many no attempt to change.
This is a business management problem, one SoftBank is not equipped to change, and has no financial incentive to change, the amount of taxes they get to write off as a result of SoftBank running in the red exceeds the profits they could make from the company if they renegotiate the contracts.
 
Why should they pay more? They are paying the amount specified by the licensing contracts they signed, licensing contracts that get frequently renewed, and that SoftBank has many no attempt to change.
You don't think that Apple with as much power and influence that they have didn't force SoftBank and ARM into that license? I'm not saying Apple is alone in this responsibility but they should be the one who pays the most because they make the most.
This is a business management problem, one SoftBank is not equipped to change, and has no financial incentive to change, the amount of taxes they get to write off as a result of SoftBank running in the red exceeds the profits they could make from the company if they renegotiate the contracts.
How does the most popular CPU architecture make less money than they write off in their taxes? This is why I like and hate the idea that Nvidia is buying ARM because the only solution is to quadruple the license fees, if not more, and Nvidia would have zero problems doing this. Doesn't matter what contract they made, Nvidia will find a way because they are assholes. The flip side is that Mali graphics will probably be a discontinued product, which is going to increase the prices of junk Android devices that come with crappy Chinese ARM based SoC's.
 
You don't think that Apple with as much power and influence that they have didn't force SoftBank and ARM into that license? I'm not saying Apple is alone in this responsibility but they should be the one who pays the most because they make the most.

How does the most popular CPU architecture make less money than they write off in their taxes? This is why I like and hate the idea that Nvidia is buying ARM because the only solution is to quadruple the license fees, if not more, and Nvidia would have zero problems doing this. Doesn't matter what contract they made, Nvidia will find a way because they are assholes. The flip side is that Mali graphics will probably be a discontinued product, which is going to increase the prices of junk Android devices that come with crappy Chinese ARM based SoC's.
So ARM in its current state loses buckets of money every year, so if they can't raise their prices, and they can't expand their market because really who is left to license their IP too then what are their options?
Softbank purchased ARM in 2016, the deal Apple had with ARM long predates that purchase, Apple purchased their license back in 2008, and from what I can see ARM sold them a perpetual license that is non-revokable but does include a fee for every chip sold.

NVidia, Apple, Samsung, Qualcomm, and Amazon spend more each year on R&D for their ARM chips than ARM makes money. ARM's current license structure is flawed and outdated, it needs to be changed. They could literally double their license fees and add less than $0.10 to the cost of a device, a quick google search would seem to indicate that ARM currently makes about $0.07 for every ARM chip sold.

ARM needs to have a full revamp and I think NVidia is one of the few companies out there that is actually equipped to do it that wouldn't have a financial incentive to take it private. NVidia's R&D department is already doing better work with a larger budget than ARM itself is and that is why I think the UK regulators are so closely looking at the deal, should that purchase goes through some 3000 employees in the UK who are making good wages become completely redundant.
 
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Microsoft isn't Qualcomm, Apple, or Samsung. Nvidia is greedy as fuck, but they aren't stupid. They're not going to buy ARMA and then make it impossible to make tons of money from the purchase.
Your mistake is thinking that nVidia would continue to run ARM the way it has been run. nVidia is not going to do that and nVidia is not going to care what anyone else thinks or wants. nVidia is going to do whatever nVidia thinks it can get away with. This is nVidia's business practice: screw everyone else over no matter the cost in order to have exclusivity for nVidia's proprietary tech.

nVidia is stupid. Thanks to what they pulled with Intel with the original Xbox, Intel still won't have anything to do with nVidia. You think that wasn't stupid? You think that didn't have long term consequences?

nVidia's way of doing business is the exact opposite of the way ARM operates. What direction do you think ARM's business is going to move if nVidia buys it? It sure as hell isn't going to be "open" the way it has been.

nVidia's is all about control and exclusivity for nVidia. If you don't believe me, make a list of open standards nVidia has pushed and a list of proprietary standards pushed by nVidia which only works on nVidia hardware.

Just remember, GPP was blatantly illegal and yet nVidia pushed that for all it was worth. nVidia doesn't care about anything but nVidia and will remake ARM into something only nVidia can control. GPP was an attempt by nVidia to gain exclusive control over property owned by other companies by using it's dominant position in the GPU market. You have not once shown any proof that nVidia has moved away from this business practice nor has anyone else. nVidia ownership of ARM will mean exclusive control of ARM by nVidia and nVidia will do whatever it can in order to benefit nVidia with no regard for anyone else.

There's a reason people have been saying the purchase of ARM by nVidia would be the death of ARM. ARM as it is cannot survive under nVidia control and ownership. The very things which make ARM attractive to use will be destroyed by nVidia.
 
Your mistake is thinking that nVidia would continue to run ARM the way it has been run. nVidia is not going to do that and nVidia is not going to care what anyone else thinks or wants. nVidia is going to do whatever nVidia thinks it can get away with. This is nVidia's business practice: screw everyone else over no matter the cost in order to have exclusivity for nVidia's proprietary tech.

nVidia is stupid. Thanks to what they pulled with Intel with the original Xbox, Intel still won't have anything to do with nVidia. You think that wasn't stupid? You think that didn't have long term consequences?

nVidia's way of doing business is the exact opposite of the way ARM operates. What direction do you think ARM's business is going to move if nVidia buys it? It sure as hell isn't going to be "open" the way it has been.

nVidia's is all about control and exclusivity for nVidia. If you don't believe me, make a list of open standards nVidia has pushed and a list of proprietary standards pushed by nVidia which only works on nVidia hardware.

Just remember, GPP was blatantly illegal and yet nVidia pushed that for all it was worth. nVidia doesn't care about anything but nVidia and will remake ARM into something only nVidia can control. GPP was an attempt by nVidia to gain exclusive control over property owned by other companies by using it's dominant position in the GPU market. You have not once shown any proof that nVidia has moved away from this business practice nor has anyone else. nVidia ownership of ARM will mean exclusive control of ARM by nVidia and nVidia will do whatever it can in order to benefit nVidia with no regard for anyone else.

There's a reason people have been saying the purchase of ARM by nVidia would be the death of ARM. ARM as it is cannot survive under nVidia control and ownership. The very things which make ARM attractive to use will be destroyed by nVidia.
I am not sure you understand how either ARM or NVidia operate, much of what you fear is not possible for NVidia to do, and I am not sure you are remembering how the NVidia/Intel/Microsoft stuff went down for the XBox quite correctly because no matter how much of an asshole NVidia is they pale in comparison to 2005's Intel and Microsoft, almost guaranteed that was a partnership destined to fall apart, the first one was just a mini PC sold at a loss running a cut-down version of Windows 2000.

ARM currently loses money despite being the largest used IP in the world, if that isn't a use case for the need for a different business model I don't know what is.

Yes NVidia will want to bake in all sorts of exclusives, probably step 1 will be to get rid of the Mali graphics architecture and replace it with one of their own, which really is a benefit to the platform. Look at what Samsung has done with AMD on their Exynos series of chips, it is a massive step forward and starts stepping on the toes of Apple who is the dominant force in ARM chip design at this stage.

Yes GPP was shit, but we are not ARM's customers we are ARM's consumers there is a difference, the shit they can try to pull with isn't at all the same as the crap they can try to pull with Samsung, Apple, Amazon, Qualcomm (who are ARM's customers), all of which are bigger companies, with larger revenues, and a better more experienced legal team.

Nvidia has a use for ARM and that use needs to have it in as many devices as possible, Nvidia could buy ARM, incorporate it, liquidate redundant employees and buildings, make zero changes to the existing licensing structure, and actually turn a profit on it as a result. That's the reason why its getting looked at so closely by the UK, not for anti-trust or anything like that but because should the deal go through they are going to send out some 3000+ pink slips to a bunch of well paid UK engineers and sales persons.
 
If Nvidia is paying 40 billion for Arm which currently can't make a profit and when they did it was virtually nothing. Ask yourself, how is Nvidia going to reclaim and make a profit exceeding 40 billion? It would have to change, can't keep with the current state. Shareholders would push for something dealing with ARM to make not only a profit but major profits. Licensing is not that profitable. So what could Nvidia do with ARM that has not been done before to increase it's value and how would that affect the companies using ARM designs for their products? I would think the license would include royalties for each product sold, as in 5% or more with any Nvidia tech used. Nvidia tech maybe worth it but I suspect you will have to pay for it more than a license. It well maybe tangle together, as in ARM you also get a little bit of Nvidia with it and a price tag for the Nvidia part. Of course the ARM processor will be tailored (conjecture) to work best with the Nvidia add on which if not used will put your product at a severe disadvantage. Bottom line, Nvidia has to have some idea/plan to make a 40 Billion $ purchase worth it and get back more than the cost for ARM.
The market gains their GPU's would get alone could make it worth it, NVidia already spends more money on ARM development and research than ARM does, actually owning ARM would let them get a greater profit from this research. It would also shut down AMD's advancement into the platform, AMD's work with Samsung on the Exynos platform brought great results, and shutting that down before it gets much traction would be a big win for NVidia. It would also let them work with mobile developers and console manufacturers to a much greater degree. Picture this, the purchase goes through and in 2022 they release the new v9 chip design with their graphics and API's, now just about every mobile developer is designing for their hardware and mobile games (yeah they are trash) make more money than consoles and PC gaming combined. This gives them huge leverage for the next round of console design and development, and what position is AMD in if they aren't in consoles? Nvidia already dominates some 80% of PC graphics, if they manage to weasel themselves into consoles as well then AMD is going to have to come to the game hard to make a dent.
NVidia wants ARM not for where it will get them next year or the year after, they are looking 5 years down the road at what it could get them.
 
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Yeah, but only because they were done with it, couldn't really monetize it, and AFAIK no one is really using it.

Not really a comparable situation.
There isn’t really an incentive for NVidia to open up many of their API’s they have some 80% of the desktop market and more than that for server/workstation. Those numbers aren’t really changing much even with AMD putting out a comparable product. The only reason AMD will have their variants catch on is because of their console dominance. If NVidia were able to challenge that dominance and get an SoC to market that Sony & Microsoft liked then that leaves AMD and any of their open standards swinging in the wind.
 
I am not sure you understand how either ARM or NVidia operate, much of what you fear is not possible for NVidia to do, and I am not sure you are remembering how the NVidia/Intel/Microsoft stuff went down for the XBox quite correctly because no matter how much of an asshole NVidia is they pale in comparison to 2005's Intel and Microsoft, almost guaranteed that was a partnership destined to fall apart, the first one was just a mini PC sold at a loss running a cut-down version of Windows 2000.

ARM currently loses money despite being the largest used IP in the world, if that isn't a use case for the need for a different business model I don't know what is.

Yes NVidia will want to bake in all sorts of exclusives, probably step 1 will be to get rid of the Mali graphics architecture and replace it with one of their own, which really is a benefit to the platform. Look at what Samsung has done with AMD on their Exynos series of chips, it is a massive step forward and starts stepping on the toes of Apple who is the dominant force in ARM chip design at this stage.

Yes GPP was shit, but we are not ARM's customers we are ARM's consumers there is a difference, the shit they can try to pull with isn't at all the same as the crap they can try to pull with Samsung, Apple, Amazon, Qualcomm (who are ARM's customers), all of which are bigger companies, with larger revenues, and a better more experienced legal team.

Nvidia has a use for ARM and that use needs to have it in as many devices as possible, Nvidia could buy ARM, incorporate it, liquidate redundant employees and buildings, make zero changes to the existing licensing structure, and actually turn a profit on it as a result. That's the reason why its getting looked at so closely by the UK, not for anti-trust or anything like that but because should the deal go through they are going to send out some 3000+ pink slips to a bunch of well paid UK engineers and sales persons.
They are far more correct than not. At every turn Nvidia has consistently done what's best for themselves, which is what businesses should do, but with regards to IP it's actually a detriment to the community. Case in point Nvidia drivers in Linux. Everyone (even Intel) decides on an open model for graphics drivers and how it connects to the GBM and Wayland. What does Nvidia do? Say no and wants the developers of Wayland / Gnome / KDE to create a custom path for them so that they can keep their closed driver model.

Ask the Nouveau devs how open Nvidia is with getting a usable driver working on Linux.

Even Gsync which is derivative of an open technology is unnecessarily closed. Fsync 2 comes along and here comes Nvidia, "look you don't need that chip afterall!" It's always a money grab with them.
 
This is not true. While GPU PhysX never caught on, the CPU PhysX has been used in hundreds of popular games and is also used by default on most Unreal and Unity titles (though both engines are now building their own physics solution).
Those were Nvidia sponsored titles and true to form once someone realizes it can be done without hardware lock in (Havok) then Nvidia pretends it was open all along. Physx was extremely closed (see any Batman title) at launch and only when it wasn't valuable anymore Nvidia releases it as an Open API. This is vastly different from Intel and AMD.
 
They are far more correct than not. At every turn Nvidia has consistently done what's best for themselves, which is what businesses should do, but with regards to IP it's actually a detriment to the community. Case in point Nvidia drivers in Linux. Everyone (even Intel) decides on an open model for graphics drivers and how it connects to the GBM and Wayland. What does Nvidia do? Say no and wants the developers of Wayland / Gnome / KDE to create a custom path for them so that they can keep their closed driver model.

Ask the Nouveau devs how open Nvidia is with getting a usable driver working on Linux.

Even Gsync which is derivative of an open technology is unnecessarily closed. Fsync 2 comes along and here comes Nvidia, "look you don't need that chip afterall!" It's always a money grab with them.
Problem NVidia has with opening up their drivers is it would disclose how a lot of their proprietary stuff works and open it for reverse engineering. So unless they open up a bunch of stuff their drivers are staying closed. Which yeah annoying.
 
The market gains their GPU's would get alone could make it worth it, NVidia already spends more money on ARM development and research than ARM does, actually owning ARM would let them get a greater profit from this research. It would also shut down AMD's advancement into the platform, AMD's work with Samsung on the Exynos platform brought great results, and shutting that down before it gets much traction would be a big win for NVidia. It would also let them work with mobile developers and console manufacturers to a much greater degree. Picture this, the purchase goes through and in 2022 they release the new v9 chip design with their graphics and API's, now just about every mobile developer is designing for their hardware and mobile games (yeah they are trash) make more money than consoles and PC gaming combined. This gives them huge leverage for the next round of console design and development, and what position is AMD in if they aren't in consoles? Nvidia already dominates some 80% of PC graphics, if they manage to weasel themselves into consoles as well then AMD is going to have to come to the game hard to make a dent.
NVidia wants ARM not for where it will get them next year or the year after, they are looking 5 years down the road at what it could get them.
AMD has an architectural license, same as what Apple has. How would Nvidia shut down AMD? AMD clean roomed their own ARM CPU from scratch, they just decided not to release it yet if ever. They can design ARM processors as they see fit if they want to.

Another thing of note is Steam Deck, most powerful handheld gaming machine and it does not even use ARM nor is it on the smallest Node either - Think about that. Will ARM even be applicable over time? Would any ARM device beat the Steam Deck for that configuration during it's lifespan of production?
 
AMD has an architectural license, same as what Apple has. How would Nvidia shut down AMD? AMD clean roomed their own ARM CPU from scratch, they just decided not to release it yet if ever. They can design ARM processors as they see fit if they want to.

Another thing of note is Steam Deck, most powerful handheld gaming machine and it does not even use ARM nor is it on the smallest Node either - Think about that. Will ARM even be applicable over time? Would any ARM device beat the Steam Deck for that configuration during it's lifespan of production?
They may have one but to date they’re not doing much with it at least publicly. If by default every ARM chip came with an NVidia graphics then AMD would have to be offering something exceptionally better to sway any buyers to use the product or they would have to do it much cheaper. So it becomes much more difficult for AMD to compete here, NVidia’s research and advancements would be paid for by their ARM licensed and sales. AMD’s would all be cost plus making their ability to compete on cost difficult at best. And assuming that manufacturing processes are the same there is very little they could do to drastically improve performance over the default. So while AMD could have their own architecture license they are going to have a very hard job gaining any significant foothold on the market.

Steam deck is basically a cut down Xbox, Arm at that wattage could offer superior performance at the cost of a lack of compatibility with the entirety of the steam library.
 
The market gains their GPU's would get alone could make it worth it, NVidia already spends more money on ARM development and research than ARM does, actually owning ARM would let them get a greater profit from this research. It would also shut down AMD's advancement into the platform, AMD's work with Samsung on the Exynos platform brought great results, and shutting that down before it gets much traction would be a big win for NVidia. It would also let them work with mobile developers and console manufacturers to a much greater degree. Picture this, the purchase goes through and in 2022 they release the new v9 chip design with their graphics and API's, now just about every mobile developer is designing for their hardware and mobile games (yeah they are trash) make more money than consoles and PC gaming combined. This gives them huge leverage for the next round of console design and development, and what position is AMD in if they aren't in consoles? Nvidia already dominates some 80% of PC graphics, if they manage to weasel themselves into consoles as well then AMD is going to have to come to the game hard to make a dent.
NVidia wants ARM not for where it will get them next year or the year after, they are looking 5 years down the road at what it could get them.
That would be quite the long term strategy if NVIDIA is trying to strong ARM their way into the console market again.
 
That would be quite the long term strategy if NVIDIA is trying to strong ARM their way into the console market again.
I think they need a long term plan if they are doing something to justify 40B, and getting their graphics as the default is the only thing that they can’t do with their existing license. Consoles may be long long term but mobile device sales are in the billions per year. That’s a huge market and if they are the default API on mobile that itself is a big deal. And a huge foot in the door.
 
Nvidia has a use for ARM and that use needs to have it in as many devices as possible, Nvidia could buy ARM, incorporate it, liquidate redundant employees and buildings, make zero changes to the existing licensing structure, and actually turn a profit on it as a result. That's the reason why its getting looked at so closely by the UK, not for anti-trust or anything like that but because should the deal go through they are going to send out some 3000+ pink slips to a bunch of well paid UK engineers and sales persons.
I don't think Nvidia is going to do that. My belief is that Nvidia is going to make a very powerful ARM chip and they want to license it out. If Nvidia made a powerful ARM chip then who would buy it? Nvidia makes chips that most companies won't buy, but if Nvidia sells a license to use their chip then the potential for sales skyrockets. Nvidia can't break current licensing deals that ARM made with Apple, Qualcomm, and etc but they can entice them with an even better deal. I wouldn't be surprised if Nvidia already has the architecture working but they want to own ARM first before anything is done with it. Through that Nvidia can up sell other things like graphics, AI, and etc.

Nvidia isn't going to just buy ARM and then fire 3000+ employees, because that would be dumb. ARM has embedded itself into so many devices that it's easy to use this to gain market share. How many devices use Nvidia's ARM SoCs? It's nothing compared to Apple and Qualcomm. Nvidia tried and failed with Tegra and I don't see them giving up just yet.
 
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I don't think Nvidia is going to do that. My belief is that Nvidia is going to make a very powerful ARM chip and they want to license it out. If Nvidia made a powerful ARM chip then who would buy it? Nvidia makes chips that most companies won't buy, but if Nvidia sells a license to use their chip then the potential for sales skyrockets. Nvidia can't break current licensing deals that ARM made with Apple, Qualcomm, and etc but they can entice them with an even better deal. I wouldn't be surprised if Nvidia already has the architecture working but they want to own ARM first because anything is done with it. Through that Nvidia can up sell other things like graphics, AI, and etc.

Nvidia isn't going to just buy ARM and then fire 3000+ employees, because that would be dumb. ARM has embedded itself into so many devices that it's easy to use this to gain market share. How many devices use Nvidia's ARM SoCs? It's nothing compared to Apple and Qualcomm. Nvidia tried and failed with Tegra and I don't see them giving up just yet.
NVidia already does internally much of what ARM does, NVidia’s ARM R&D Team is already almost the same size as ARM’s. ARM employs almost 7000 people at this stage most of which will be redundant, because they are trying to reverse engineer the work that Qualcomm, Samsung, and Apple already do. But with the exception of Apple, Qualcomm and Samsung (with the exception of the new Exynos chips) use the Mali GPU cores. MediaTek who sells more ARM chips than all of the others just licenses the straight ARM cores with no tweaks. Many of Samsung’s and Qualcomm’s chip sales as well are the default chips. Getting Mali gone and some flavour of NVidia GPU in those chips would be a big win.
NVidia already designs their own powerful ARM CPU’s and licenses them out. They don’t need to purchase ARM to do that, they have been for years.
Nothing that you have proposed above actually requires NVidia to purchase ARM to accomplish it is all stuff they can do under their existing licensing agreements.
 
Getting Mali gone and some flavour of NVidia GPU in those chips would be a big win.
To who, Nvidia? I'm not a big fan of having less choice.
NVidia already designs their own powerful ARM CPU’s and licenses them out. They don’t need to purchase ARM to do that, they have been for years.
Who buys their license? As far as I know Nintendo is the only one and they buy the chips not the license to make their own chip.
Nothing that you have proposed above actually requires NVidia to purchase ARM to accomplish it is all stuff they can do under their existing licensing agreements.
The difference here is that Nvidia can make changes to the ARM architecture that would then become the standard. Like implement a feature that allows the CPU+GPU to work better together and use less bandwidth. I'm just making up a feature that may or may not exist, but the idea here is that while Qualcomm and Apple could implement a similar feature and get similar performance it would cost a lot of R&D. Plus the feature would be exclusive to Nvidia's GPU technology. Nvidia would rather sell you the chip but knows that Apple won't buy it and most companies go with Qualcomm. Most Chinese products are going to continue to use Mediatek and AllWinner type of SoC's no matter what Nvidia does. Nvidia could license their ARM design like they've been doing and fail, or they could push by purchasing ARM. It's harder to say no to an Nvidia design sold by ARM. I also see Nvidia fighting those license agreements that were made prior to the purchase of ARM. If I were Nvidia and an asshole, that's what I would do.
 
To who, Nvidia? I'm not a big fan of having less choice.

Who buys their license? As far as I know Nintendo is the only one and they buy the chips not the license to make their own chip.

The difference here is that Nvidia can make changes to the ARM architecture that would then become the standard. Like implement a feature that allows the CPU+GPU to work better together and use less bandwidth. I'm just making up a feature that may or may not exist, but the idea here is that while Qualcomm and Apple could implement a similar feature and get similar performance it would cost a lot of R&D. Plus the feature would be exclusive to Nvidia's GPU technology. Nvidia would rather sell you the chip but knows that Apple won't buy it and most companies go with Qualcomm. Most Chinese products are going to continue to use Mediatek and AllWinner type of SoC's no matter what Nvidia does. Nvidia could license their ARM design like they've been doing and fail, or they could push by purchasing ARM. It's harder to say no to an Nvidia design sold by ARM. I also see Nvidia fighting those license agreements that were made prior to the purchase of ARM. If I were Nvidia and an asshole, that's what I would do.
The Mali architecture sucks, doing away with it is a win for everybody.

Tesla, Ford, Toyota, a lot of industrial automation hardware runs on NVidia chips. Two new super computers are going to be using NVidia’s Grace they sell a lot of them.

And this is exactly what I am saying and step one will be to replace Mali with the NVidia graphics. Every arm chip aside from Samsung’s Exynos and Apple’s currently use Mali, regardless of the manufacture because graphics are hard too many patents to navigate. So when MediaTek and Allwinner and all those guys start using it too as it’s now part of the standard license.

They don’t need to cancel them, the contracts are for a core type, so they need to buy a new license for V9 as they did with V8, and V7 before it. Unless they stay with V8 and simply work off that as the base in perpetuity.

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NVidia is already working with MediaTek for their equivalent of the Exynos, they want to make a viable gaming Chromebook, as they are compatible with the Android App Store and 3’rd party stores.
 
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Nvidia is going to try and penetrate every industry under the sun by any means necessary. They don't care about Apple or Qualcomm or any other lease holders. That's yesterdays tech. They are focused on the future and ALL of the bazillion opportunities they will have at their fingertips with ARM. 40b is nothing when you consider the infinite ways they can package and sell ARM/Nvidia. I guarantee Nvidia will have ARM positioned in ways and in industries we never imagined. Think about all of the products that need small, fast, smart, cool running, CHEAP cpu/gpu combos. The auto industry is the tip of the iceberg.
Consoles? Maybe as a quick stepping stone, or proof of concept.
Leather Jacket Boy wants gpus to be a fraction of Nvidia's revenue. He wants the aquisition to launch Nvidia to the forefront of the tech world. He wants to be the next Elon. The dude is ALL ego.
I could be wrong. 😂
 
Nvidia is going to try and penetrate every industry under the sun by any means necessary. They don't care about Apple or Qualcomm or any other lease holders. That's yesterdays tech. They are focused on the future and ALL of the bazillion opportunities they will have at their fingertips with ARM. 40b is nothing when you consider the infinite ways they can package and sell ARM/Nvidia. I guarantee Nvidia will have ARM positioned in ways and in industries we never imagined. Think about all of the products that need small, fast, smart, cool running, CHEAP cpu/gpu combos. The auto industry is the tip of the iceberg.
Consoles? Maybe as a quick stepping stone, or proof of concept.
Leather Jacket Boy wants gpus to be a fraction of Nvidia's revenue. He wants the aquisition to launch Nvidia to the forefront of the tech world. He wants to be the next Elon. The dude is ALL ego.
I could be wrong. 😂
They have already started making big inroads with industrial automation. They just recently signed on BMW, and from what I understand their ARM chips are being used in fleets of farming equipment now, NVidia powered AI is running drones that visually identify sick plants to be trimmed or plants that have ripened early for harvesting and such, as well as insects and the like. Small fleets just buzz around the fields automatically identifying things so they can be dealt with on the fly. Saves farmers a lot of money in both damages and labor.
 
They have already started making big inroads with industrial automation. They just recently signed on BMW, and from what I understand their ARM chips are being used in fleets of farming equipment now, NVidia powered AI is running drones that visually identify sick plants to be trimmed or plants that have ripened early for harvesting and such, as well as insects and the like. Small fleets just buzz around the fields automatically identifying things so they can be dealt with on the fly. Saves farmers a lot of money in both damages and labor.
That's amazing but it makes perfect sense.
That's exactly the kind of thing i never would have connected with Nvidia, ever lol.
AI is the future of everything. Farming equipment leads to industrial equipment to shipping and boating to aircraft and on and on.
Anything we can imagine that needs a smart screen or has to adapt/troubleshoot on the fly (no pun).
Yeah we despise Nvidia but be prepared (to invest, haha). They will be everywhere in 10 years, (quite possibly much less) if this merger goes through. -Shiver-
And we thought Intel was bad...pffft.
 
That's amazing but it makes perfect sense.
That's exactly the kind of thing i never would have connected with Nvidia, ever lol.
AI is the future of everything. Farming equipment leads to industrial equipment to shipping and boating to aircraft and on and on.
Anything we can imagine that needs a smart screen or has to adapt/troubleshoot on the fly (no pun).
Yeah we despise Nvidia but be prepared (to invest, haha). They will be everywhere in 10 years, (quite possibly much less) if this merger goes through. -Shiver-
And we thought Intel was bad...pffft.
This is why Intel is honestly desperate to get high end GPU’s to market, should the merger go through they will have a serious threat to contend with. Lots of people think AMD is Intels biggest threat but really it‘s Nvidia who’s up against them in their most lucrative markets.
 
Tesla, Ford, Toyota, a lot of industrial automation hardware runs on NVidia chips. Two new super computers are going to be using NVidia’s Grace they sell a lot of them.
Yes but how many exist compared to Qualcomm and Apple?
The Mali architecture sucks, doing away with it is a win for everybody.

And this is exactly what I am saying and step one will be to replace Mali with the NVidia graphics. Every arm chip aside from Samsung’s Exynos and Apple’s currently use Mali, regardless of the manufacture because graphics are hard too many patents to navigate.
I'm quoting this out of order but I feel this should be together. While "Mali sucks" but somehow most use it? Mali isn't that bad when compared to what Apple, Nvidia, and PowerVR have. They probably use it because it's cheap, unlike Nvidia's GPU tech.
So when MediaTek and Allwinner and all those guys start using it too as it’s now part of the standard license.
I'm sure on platforms like Android and Linux that this won't be a problem.
Linus-Torvalds-Fuck-You-Nvidia.jpg

They don’t need to cancel them, the contracts are for a core type, so they need to buy a new license for V9 as they did with V8, and V7 before it. Unless they stay with V8 and simply work off that as the base in perpetuity.
Chances are that's what Nvidia will do. Actually, I'm sure Nvidia will find a way to increase the price of those old licenses, do away with Mali, and make something so good that Apple and other SoC's will have no choice but to go with what Nvidia/ARM has. There's no way Nvidia is just going to fire employee's and manage ARM better. Nvidia wants to be behind the ARM revolution, and they want to get paid a lot for it.
 
Ok guys. You may have mistaken the problem.
The problem is with ARM China, taken over with communist China working on it, with some legal credential under Chinese sick laws.
So China forbids Nvidia to buy ARM and the Chinese ARM brand has been legally stolen and renamed under new brand Amou Technologies under Chinese law and makes new ARM chips they say is their own and would like to be paid for royalties as if this was their own brand. This would be applied to whatever ARM chip is sold in China. Other than that they have made for about 2 years in secret a whole bunch of new designs that are now sold on chinese iOT that will submerge the world.
This is very clear a try to take over ARM by production.
Imagine that the Chinese sell all their products for cheaper than Apple and foreign competitors, then ask for royalties to them.
On the other side ARM and Apple and Samsung and Nvidia ask the same on the Chinese. Who will for instance Brazil chose to support with the young people voting for cheaper products and advanced technology made in China ? What will Africa and Middle East do. The germans sell more cars in China and are a real Chinese partner in Eu against the other big countries like France who is rather hostile to China. I do believe the German will push the EU to chose China instead of Softbank, Apple and Nvidia.... in fact I am quite sure of that.
So the world on the side of the Chinese take over of ARM license is bigger than that of those supporting the historic ARM.

Frankly, all the french companies that went there have been stolen and ripped apart. The only country I can see making real busyness with China is Germany but they are always siding with the chinese interests in the EU against that of the other EU countries. Germany acts like a chinese Troyan horse for two decades now. This how it all works.

This is what happens when a company decides to build and licence things in China. Take care Elon Musk. Don't be stupid about Tesla in China. You can do it without being there.
 
Your mistake is thinking that nVidia would continue to run ARM the way it has been run. nVidia is not going to do that and nVidia is not going to care what anyone else thinks or wants. nVidia is going to do whatever nVidia thinks it can get away with. This is nVidia's business practice: screw everyone else over no matter the cost in order to have exclusivity for nVidia's proprietary tech.

nVidia is stupid. Thanks to what they pulled with Intel with the original Xbox, Intel still won't have anything to do with nVidia. You think that wasn't stupid? You think that didn't have long term consequences?

nVidia's way of doing business is the exact opposite of the way ARM operates. What direction do you think ARM's business is going to move if nVidia buys it? It sure as hell isn't going to be "open" the way it has been.

nVidia's is all about control and exclusivity for nVidia. If you don't believe me, make a list of open standards nVidia has pushed and a list of proprietary standards pushed by nVidia which only works on nVidia hardware.
Proprietary:
G-Sync+

Open:
RTX
VKRay (Raytracing on Vulkan)
Physx

I can't find any others that are proprietary. In regards to G-Sync, this was a brand new tech that was a huge benefit to the gaming experience, as well as something that set them apart. Companies do not generally make a tech that will give them an edge over the competition and then proceed to give it to those competitors. AMD came up with Freesync because otherwise they would have been left in the dust. It's only free because it was second, and for a hope of speedy adoption/success it had to be. The only crappy thing about G-Sync was the proprietary module it required. Back then though, that may have been the only real way to get it reliably into LCD's. It took 3 to 4 years before Freesync 2 + LCD manufacturers had quality adaptive sync that didn't require the module. So it made sense for multiple reasons. If you want proof just look at the amount of shit freesync monitors there were when that adaptive sync came out. But I think we are getting sidetracked. Note: It's entirely possible that since the time of G-Sync, they have decided against doing more of those types of proprietary tech. See RTX.

https://semiengineering.com/open-source-processors-fact-or-fiction/
Article said:
Arm is not fully closed, either. “While not open source, the Arm architecture is an open architecture,” says Arm’s Whitfield. “NVIDIA recently announced it was making its full stack of AI and HPC software available to the Arm ecosystem, citing Arm’s ability to offer an open architecture for supercomputing.”

In big datacenters/cloud, the big pieces are more and more based on open-source.. containers comes to mind as 1 example (google kubernetes) , and that's not even part of supercomputing. This is the direction of the market.

Just remember, GPP was blatantly illegal and yet nVidia pushed that for all it was worth.
As far as I know, it was an agreement you could choose to join, or not join. You will have to prove it was "blatantly illegal". I don't think there were any lawsuits over it either... so sounds like you are talking from a biased and misinformed perspective, or are you a lawyer?

The whole stink was that nVidia GPU oem 'brands' had to only consist of nVidia GPU offerings. So ASUS ROG brand would have to stop being used for ASUS video cards that used AMD GPU's. Which means ASUS would just have to come up with another name besides ROG and put that on those products. It seems smart to ensure products are differentiated, and could have worked for the benefit of AMD if GPP had continued. Hypothetical marketing: "ASUS FirePro video card lineup powered by AMD GPU's are a hit with reviewers...". It isn't so nefarious as the noise surrounding it was. And ASUS could have left AMD video cards in the ROG brand, and came up with something new for the nVidia powered parts.. either path would have satisfied GPP.
nVidia doesn't care about anything but nVidia and will remake ARM into something only nVidia can control.
Speculation.
GPP was an attempt by nVidia to gain exclusive control over property owned by other companies by using it's dominant position in the GPU market.
What? That's not what GPP was, see above.
You have not once shown any proof that nVidia has moved away from this business practice nor has anyone else. nVidia ownership of ARM will mean exclusive control of ARM by nVidia and nVidia will do whatever it can in order to benefit nVidia with no regard for anyone else.

There's a reason people have been saying the purchase of ARM by nVidia would be the death of ARM. ARM as it is cannot survive under nVidia control and ownership. The very things which make ARM attractive to use will be destroyed by nVidia.
ARM loses money right now. nVidia can SAVE ARM. If anyone has the brains and capital to improve the product, and support for the product, it's nVidia. They are driving big into datacenters, that's why they want ARM.

You should be more objective, you are coming across as a hater/AMD fanboi.
 
Gigabyte motherboards are known for having lots of faulty components. Same thing with their power supplies and graphics cards. Try an Asus brand board or an Aquacomputer Aquero fan controller.

Proprietary:
G-Sync+

Open:
RTX
VKRay (Raytracing on Vulkan)
Physx

I can't find any others that are proprietary. In regards to G-Sync, this was a brand new tech that was a huge benefit to the gaming experience, as well as something that set them apart. Companies do not generally make a tech that will give them an edge over the competition and then proceed to give it to those competitors. AMD came up with Freesync because otherwise they would have been left in the dust. It's only free because it was second, and for a hope of speedy adoption/success it had to be. The only crappy thing about G-Sync was the proprietary module it required. Back then though, that may have been the only real way to get it reliably into LCD's. It took 3 to 4 years before Freesync 2 + LCD manufacturers had quality adaptive sync that didn't require the module. So it made sense for multiple reasons. If you want proof just look at the amount of shit freesync monitors there were when that adaptive sync came out. But I think we are getting sidetracked. Note: It's entirely possible that since the time of G-Sync, they have decided against doing more of those types of proprietary tech. See RTX.

https://semiengineering.com/open-source-processors-fact-or-fiction/


In big datacenters/cloud, the big pieces are more and more based on open-source.. containers comes to mind as 1 example (google kubernetes) , and that's not even part of supercomputing. This is the direction of the market.


As far as I know, it was an agreement you could choose to join, or not join. You will have to prove it was "blatantly illegal". I don't think there were any lawsuits over it either... so sounds like you are talking from a biased and misinformed perspective, or are you a lawyer?

The whole stink was that nVidia GPU oem 'brands' had to only consist of nVidia GPU offerings. So ASUS ROG brand would have to stop being used for ASUS video cards that used AMD GPU's. Which means ASUS would just have to come up with another name besides ROG and put that on those products. It seems smart to ensure products are differentiated, and could have worked for the benefit of AMD if GPP had continued. Hypothetical marketing: "ASUS FirePro video card lineup powered by AMD GPU's are a hit with reviewers...". It isn't so nefarious as the noise surrounding it was. And ASUS could have left AMD video cards in the ROG brand, and came up with something new for the nVidia powered parts.. either path would have satisfied GPP.

Speculation.

What? That's not what GPP was, see above.

ARM loses money right now. nVidia can SAVE ARM. If anyone has the brains and capital to improve the product, and support for the product, it's nVidia. They are driving big into datacenters, that's why they want ARM.

You should be more objective, you are coming across as a hater/AMD fanboi.
It looks like your strong nVidia bias is showing.

Gsync is a proprietary implementation of an open standard. Freesync is an open implementation of that standard. Gsync also made monitors in the range of $100-$300 more expensive for practically no reason and more importantly locked you into using nVidia hardware only if you wanted to make use of VRR with the monitor. There are very good reasons Gsync died.

Physx was a company nVidia bought and made it exclusive to nVidia hardware even going so far as to disable any use of Physx in a system with a non-nVidia card in it. The only reason it was "opened up" is because companies refused to use it unless nVidia paid them a lot to use it. It came to the point where no one was using it and finally nVidia opened it up.

RTX is not open. It's the nVidia path to use raytracing built into DX. VKRay is likely the same thing but not something I have bothered to look at.

Your attempt to put the GPP is some sort of positive light is amusing. Anyone following the GPP coverage on the main site when it was still up knows everything you're trying to put forth is wrong. nVidia was trying to take over branding and lines that companies had built up over years for their own. There was even more in there which was even worse that wasn't even reported on. In case you didn't know the GPP was literally found to be illegal and thrown out.

Do better research and bring some facts to the table before putting up an argument because you haven't done so yet.
 
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