NVIDIA Wants Retailers to Sell GeForce GPUs to Gamers, Not Miners

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Jan 20, 2018.

  1. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    They do not have control of that. It is entirely up to how much Global Foundry (for AMD) and TSCM (for Nvidia) can produce and get to them There is no way in hell that AMD and Nvidia don't have them producing as many chips as they're able to right now. And assumes that the AIBs can get a hold of enough memory chips.
     
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  2. 0neTwo

    0neTwo Limp Gawd

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    Cant wait for the 1180 to come out so there can be 14 million used 1080's on ebay.
     
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  3. griffinhart

    griffinhart [H]ard|Gawd

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    I know we live in an instant gratification society, but These prices are only temporary and have only been around for a couple of weeks. Looking at Keepa.com these pricing trends have only started this month. I don't think extreme measures need to be taken right now.
     
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  4. GNUse_the_force

    GNUse_the_force Limp Gawd

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    We need player 3 to enter the game.

    Valve .. ?
     
  5. Jagger100

    Jagger100 [H]ardness Supreme

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    That is what they don't want to do. If they scale up production and Bitcoin callapses, they're screwed. They should license in the short term more heavily but that risks creating competitors.
     
  6. -Strelok-

    -Strelok- [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It’s a free market, but this will hurt PC gaming. Memory prices going up were rough, these GPU prices will deter a lot of new gamers. Whether that’s good or bad is up to the individual. I personally don’t care either way anymore.
     
  7. JStamsek

    JStamsek [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Empty videocard shelves at Fry's Electronics in Phoenix last week.

    This was enough to prompt me to use Nicehash.com with my Nividia 970 GTX. I turn off the mining when I'm gaming though.


    emptyshelves.jpg
     
  8. viscountalpha

    viscountalpha 2[H]4U

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    It's really a shame Intel never made Larrabee into a mining card. It could have made them a small fortune.
     
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  9. Azphira

    Azphira [H]ard|Gawd

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    nvidia could always sell base cards with select your cooler type and kill off all third party cards and sales.
     
  10. ashram

    ashram n00b

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    So, when will steam id's be used as proof that you're a gamer in need of said video card at the store?

    But seriously... It was cheaper for me to buy an hp gaming pc for $265 (on clearance at walmart, i5-7400, 8gb ram, gtx 1060 3gb) than buy a 1060 3gb by itself 3weeks ago. In what world does that make sense?
     
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  11. jlbenedict

    jlbenedict [H]ard|Gawd

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    SHHH... don't let that slip out in the wild..
    Soon, there won't be any OEM PC's on the shelf
     
  12. Grimlaking

    Grimlaking 2[H]4U

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    Why not make a mining specific card for a better price. When I mine my GPU is process heavy memory light... why not make a mining edition of a 1080 ti, with 1 gig of ram and cut the price down to something reasonable for that price point then let the re sellers gouge the miners but keep it JUST cheaper than then MSRP in the full cards? Heck I would buy a full card and a miner card just to boost my mining hash.

    Thoughts?
     
  13. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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  14. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    They should do that. And limit two cards per CC Number.
     
  15. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

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    We don't know that. What I do know is that by producing more graphic cards it'll hurt AMD and Nvidia's pocket more than anything. Producing more cards means keep the retail price closer to MSRP, but at the same time it could really backfire on them. For one, if the cryptomarket crashes then you have a lot of used graphic cards on Ebay, which means suddenly you have a lot of graphic cards nobody will buy. If they release new graphic cards, the miners will buy those and sell the old ones. Either way, it's not good for them.

    By limiting how many they release can control prices in their favor. Don't be surprised if their next generation of graphic cards are going to be much higher in price compared to the current generation.
     
  16. Bootlooops

    Bootlooops n00b

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    Hey can someone make me a list of all the efforts nvidea programers have made to disable mining in at least a small percentage of cards... Ow that haven't hu strange
     
  17. Grimlaking

    Grimlaking 2[H]4U

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    To be honest as a gamer... I've started mining some just because. I would HATE a miner driver and a gamer driver. But I'm not in the market for a new card with these stupid prices.
     
  18. TFchris

    TFchris [H]ard|Gawd

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    Can't they just release crypto mining dedicated gpu's that have no ties to gaming so it will not effect the gaming market?
     
  19. Sycraft

    Sycraft [H]ardness Supreme

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    They do, they are called Teslas. If you want a card designed to do computation, to be run at high load all the time, that's what you want. They aren't made for crypto, of course, they are made for computation of any kind. However they are expensive, since they are, well, enterprise cards. That's not what miners want, they want to buy whatever is the cheapest, use it until it is used up, sell it to someone else, and move on.

    So to make something targeted for miners it would need to be cheaper than consumer cards, which would mean either less profit for nVidia (which they don't want) or cheaper hardware that will last a shorter time, which isn't likely to be popular. Also miners would probably shun them since if you look at the crypto advocates one way they convince themselves it is a good deal is the resale value of the hardware, which this wouldn't have.

    Plus I'm guessing nVidia sees this as a fad, as a bubble. They know that this rush is unsustainable and will pop. As such it would not make sense to tool up a new product for it. nVidia is all about getting in to new markets and will spend plenty of time and money working on them, even though they are presently less profitable than gaming. They are heavily invested in cars (both ICE systems and self driving tech), computation, AI research, mobility (for example they make the Nintendo Switch) and so on. However these are markets they see as having a future. This mining crazy is something they do not.
     
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  20. atp1916

    atp1916 [H]ard|DCoTM x1

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    QTFD

    I've been saying this since day one.

    Controlling supply to manipulate demand in these types of situations, and then telling who to sell what to - is just plan wrong.

    I am now adding the NVidia store to my daily stock check bot.
     
  21. Tiburon1186

    Tiburon1186 Gawd

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    Love nVidia. Those guys rock.
     
  22. schoolslave

    schoolslave Gawd

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    They're obviously in it for the money because well they're a business. However, they are selling cards at MSRP which by definition means they are not gouging like every other retailer.
    I haven't looked, but does EVGA gouge on their webstore?
     
  23. RPKYGK

    RPKYGK n00b

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    I wonder how games studios like all this. What's the point of developing AAA titles if nobody has a card that can play them? Sales are going to slump long term if this persists. I know all this sucks because I'm trying to replace an old desktop for my daughter (Phenom 965 and a GTX460) and although its easy to build a decently affordable computer, trying to get a card is a shit show. Even on Kijiji any deals that come up are gone unless you get to them in an hour.
     
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  24. Sycraft

    Sycraft [H]ardness Supreme

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    They aren't controlling supply to manipulate demand. First you have to realize that this spike is very sudden, and you can't just suddenly ramp up production. It is not as though nVidia could just toss 10 million new cards on the market tomorrow. If they decided they wanted to increase production drastically, they'd have to talk to their supplier (TSMC) to see if the capacity was there, if so they'd buy more production runs. Those take time to do, you don't fab a chip in a day. Once the chips got fabbed they have to go off for packaging and testing, and you might need to hire more people and build more space to ramp up production there. Once that is done the chips get shipped off, by boat usually, to AIB vendors who assemble and test the final boards. Those then get put on a boat and shipped to the stores. So it is real easy for it to be 6+ months from the time you say "let's make more of these" to them hitting the shelves. You don't just suddenly decide you need more cards and have them on the market in a couple days.

    The other thing is that they are in the process of changing over to a new architecture. Remember what I said about the time it takes for this stuff to reach retail? Ya when a change happens there's a good amount of time while the new manufacturing pipeline is filled. Well when you are getting ready for that, you don't want to make a ton of older models that will then be hard to sell once the new model is out.
     
  25. tetris42

    tetris42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I see what you did there.
     
  26. diehardman

    diehardman n00b

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    fun fact: Geforce cards are now not covered under warranty if used in a datacenter unless they are being using for block-chain. hmmmmm
     
  27. rgMekanic

    rgMekanic [H]ard|News Staff Member

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    Weather or not you think that the mining bubble will pop, the possibility of it popping is very real.

    Now, say you're AMD or Nvidia, Are you willing to sink a massive amount of money to produce GPUs for a market that may be gone in the next day/week/hour/year?

    Especially when TSMC is now producing more silicon for Bitmain than they are for Nvidia?
    TSMC Is All About Crypto Suddenly

    AMD or Nvidia will not risk ramping up production.
     
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  28. Burticus

    Burticus 2[H]4U

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    If AMD / Nvidia really cared, they would sell cards themselves to consumers directly, limit 1 per household, at MSRP. Yeah they would be founders editions / stock cards but at least you could buy one.

    I also wonder if they could build in usage detection into the drivers and auto-throttle down when mining is detected. Or multi GPU detected.

    Between the mining craze and the RAM pricing bullshit going on right now, these are dark days for PC building.
     
  29. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

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    i don't think it'll pop.

    i have no evidence to back that up.

    but if it does it's gonna fucking hilarious when all those cards hit ebay.
     
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  30. Grimlaking

    Grimlaking 2[H]4U

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    I think to have dark days it really needs to last more than a couple weeks or even months. I hope card prices die down.
     
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  31. bugleyman

    bugleyman [H]ard|Gawd

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    Except they really don't, because neither one has their own wafer fabs.
     
  32. DPI

    DPI Nitpick Police

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    What would possibly be the point of them arbitrarily gimping certain workloads? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

    People need to grasp that times have changed, and GPUs are no longer just toys for teenagers to play gay videogames with space aliens every night. They're general computing devices, and they're not immune to the laws of supply and demand.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
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  33. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    And they also aren't printing presses of cash. Buy a bunch or GPUs, press a button, consume a lot of power and become rich. That's teenager 101.
     
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  34. Burticus

    Burticus 2[H]4U

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    I was thinking along the lines of throttling workload to prevent card damage / RMA's etc. I mean if you took your brand new car to the track every day and just ran it flat out, would <insert car company here> honor any kind of damage caused if they knew what happened?

    Oh and FYI, Nvidia is in business because of gamers. Any other means of use for their gaming cards are secondary. They have professional cards marketed towards professionals. They should make stripped down (I mean like, no or limited output, basic cooling, etc) cards geared for mining if that was their target.

    Also, I would assume most "teenagers" wanting to "play videogames with space aliens every night" are doing it on consoles. Enthusiasts build gaming PC's and buy expensive video cards, not teens (well, can't count out rich kids but I'm talking about average people here)

    edit - my point was really that if I *WANT* to buy an expensive video card to blow up space aliens, I should be *ABLE* to purchase one. Right now, we can't. Because people are using them for unintended purposes and buying them by the truckload to try to make money.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
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  35. Spidey329

    Spidey329 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Unintended? Not necessarily, graphics processing is one application it can do. But any computational task that is better over multiple compute cores is going to work well on a GPU. The only difference between a compute card and a GPU card is the branding, memory quantity, drivers, and price. A little trick years ago was you could flash the GeForce cards with Quattro firmware to use those drivers to get the same workstation support those cards offered (e.g. Autodesk). That's moot now, since Autodesk (and others) have become more agnostic in support.

    The compute based cards (like the Tesla series) are grossly overpriced, so even AI engineers are buying GPU's for compute since you can get them with so much VRAM now.

    Nvidia won't disable mining capability at the firmware level because they don't actually care. The only way they'd do that is if they had a compute card that was available in massive quantities. Instead, they'll play nice and say these things .. try to raise prices by doing more forced bundles, but at the end of the day, they love this. They're just glad that their cards finally work as good as AMD for it.
     
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  36. Nallexi

    Nallexi Limp Gawd

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    Isn't this basically the definition of virtue signalling?
     
  37. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    While I do get and overall agree with his argument, teenagers typically don't build $5k gaming rigs. Powerful and fast PCs are enormously beneficial for play and actual work.
     
  38. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    Nope. It's easy to spot economic speculation. Hyper-inflated prices based on people thinking they're going to make bank doing nothing. It always ends badly.
     
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  39. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You might be a bit behind the times- Nvidia has been cultivating their compute prowess for quite a long time; DX10 was built around the idea, and they built the reference GPU for it. And that was a long time ago.
     
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  40. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    And I'll address this too- you absolutely can buy one. Right now!

    You just have to be willing to pay market prices.

    And if you think that there's some way to get around that, you're absurdly wrong, and need to go back to your economics lessons. Any market distortion, by Nvidia, their retail partners, or even the government, would result in even more scarcity and even higher prices.
     
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