Nvidia SUPER Refresh: Faster 2060, 2070, 2080, Faster GDDR6 and $100 Off

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by odditory, Jun 2, 2019.

  1. SIS

    SIS [H]Lite

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    Real competition involves more than duopoly. Unfortunately, in tech, duopoly is generally erroneously seen as quality competition. Search. Phones. Operating systems. GPUs. CPUs. Consoles. Et cetera.

    Cartels are the worst. Monopolies are second. Duopolies are third. None qualify as high-quality competition.

    This is perhaps a symptom of Economics not being a required part of the K-12 curriculum.
     
  2. gigatexal

    gigatexal [H]ardness Supreme

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    Classically trained economist here: you’re right. But — some competition is better than one vendor clearly running away in all aspects of performance while the other player lags behind time after time. And this is the case if you look at market share numbers. In every metric I’ve seen Nvidia has something like 85% of the pie IIRC and the same goes for Intel’s dominance of x86 — it’s a lot.

    All I was getting at was that it’s good to see the market go from seemingly monopoly domination by NVIDIA to at least an duopoly that will at least move for them to compete on performance even though it won’t move the needle on prices like a market with more participants.
     
  3. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    The problem with tech is the massive outlay of capital to finance R&D.... and the patent systen perhaps somewhat as well. Trying to develop a compatible yet unique tech solution is extremely expensive both at the R&D stage and then at the sales point with the litigious tech market eating smaller fish.

    On the software side everyone can thank the FOSS movement for spurring at least some competition on the software end. Its easier fund high end custom software solutions today then it ever has been.

    When it comes to something like GPUs and CPUs the investment required to develop the hardware is massive, 100s of people for years to get off the ground. A dance of patent licencing and clean room work... and even if a company navigates that, they then have to deal with a market that views them as the little third place player. As the third wheel good luck commanding anything but bottom of the barrel pricing.

    Just look at what happened to both Cyrix and Transmeta. BOTH had superior tech, both where lean and mean... both where on the right side of legal issues. Yet they are both gone. What is left.... Cryix patents now belong to AMD with Intel having forever licences. (AMD up to just a few years ago was still manufacturing Cryrix developed chips for industrial use). Intels current Float Point design is in fact a Cyrix design. Transmeta likewise long gone... but we can thank them for dynamic cloaks and extreme low power chips, likewise all their tech now belongs to Intel.

    Bottom line is the market didn't support the third place guys... even when they had the clearly superior tech. (By market I mean both consumers and software developers) Cyrix and Transmeta when consumers saw their products they where in bottom of the barrel low spec products with next to no margin. Its not shocking that investors in both companies took the exits when the opportunity presented itself, then likely put their money in coffee companies or something with big margins and low risk. Tech is all high risk for next to no margin.

    With GPUs... at least Intel is entering the game again for real. So perhaps we will have a real 3 way race. Lets just hope AMD doesn't stumble with the generation after Navi and just call it quits. That would suck. The days of companies like ArtX BitBoys 3Dlabs 3DFX GigaPixle and all the other little upstarts with a novel idea are long gone. Investors aren't going to sink any real money into those types of super long shots again I don't think.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2019
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  4. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Would be annoyed if true because it would hurt the resale value of my RX 2070 when I upgrade next year. :p
     
  5. ZodaEX

    ZodaEX 2[H]4U

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    How much does a dynamic cloak cost? I've always wanted one.
     
  6. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well now that they are using metamaterials to build more efficient antennas no doubt the economics of scale will bring at least inferred cloaking down to earth. I'm sure its just a matter of time. lol

    https://www.ft.com/content/c6864c76-de7d-11e7-a0d4-0944c5f49e46
     
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  7. HAL_404

    HAL_404 Limp Gawd

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    I bought a used EVGA GTX 1060 6 GB SCC on ebay a few weeks ago for $125 shipped. I was using a GTX 1070 Ti prior (a few months back) I have the same hardware except of coarse for the vid card and believe it or not it runs all my games (from Tomb Taider series up to Andromeda, Crysis 3, etc) with LESS pausing than when I used the 1070 Ti @ 1080p ... go figure so no, I don't need a 2060 right now
     
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  8. Auburn_Tigers

    Auburn_Tigers Limp Gawd

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    If putting the blame on Crypto works best for you, then go right ahead. Now that Crypto is not a
    factor, and does not reflect the current business model of nvidia, then they don't have to lower
    their price at all, since they are doing so well. So, tell me why they are putting out faster cards at a
    cheaper price now, since they are not hurting, and it does not reflect their business practice?
     
  9. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You haven't seen the latest rumors?
     
  10. Grimlaking

    Grimlaking 2[H]4U

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    AMD can compete with Nvidia in markets that matter. Custom chip fab. The fact that AMD is in all of the consoles and Nvidia is left to make their own or get zero % of that market is telling.

    Also since Nvidia so heavily invested into the RX line of Graphics cards for both next gen business and consumer use. It means that if RTX cards don't sell hard and fast at a price point that is profitable we may see the king waver. Reduce sales staff, double down on development, and fabrication. Also branch out into other lines.

    AI cards are a big deal. But for that to really take hold in large numbers people need to want AI in their cars and Manufacturers have to be able to do it at a price point consumers will swallow.

    60k AI car's will be the entry level at first when they become real. As economies of scale take hold they will get cheaper.

    Nvidia wants to own a market other than PC. They want to own Compute market in areas that they don't have reasonable competition, they have that for another year... MAYBE 2. But the R&D to cost of the cards is so expensive they may not make their full R&D budget back. And super smart AI card's are hard to market. So they add that R&D Tech into Graphics cards and hope consumers will keep paying the high price to make their R&D on AI cores make sense.

    Will be interesting to see how they do for this second quarter. Nvidia doesn't have the market breadth that AMD does. If this quarter doesn't look good we are going to see some Layoff's at Nvidia.

    I can't claim to know how they are actually doing. But considering the markets they have thrown themselves into, what is on their current generation of cards, and now this play to get 'loyal' customers to buy into it... AGAIN. I think they are in a hard spot and not likely to do great.

    AMD on the other hand has a big product refresh, and their CPU's are exciting the market in a way that they haven't done since the Athalon x 64.. Which I ran in a pure 64 bit Windows Vista for a long while.
     
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  11. Nightfire

    Nightfire [H]ard|Gawd

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    Looks like a nice refresh. The 2080 will probably get the biggest performance boost from the faster GDDR6, followed by the 2060. I think the 2070 will benefit most from the price cut.

    I would be very surprised if the 2060 drops to $250. $300 seems likely.
     
  12. YeuEmMaiMai

    YeuEmMaiMai [H]ardForum Junkie

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    exactly

    There used to be Voodo, Rendition, S3, SIS, CIrrus Logic, etc and now we are down 3 with Intel, Nvidia, and AMD...
     
  13. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    I wouldn't take anything you read on Tweaktown seriously. Every time there is a conference or convention of some type they make up shit about new video card releases for those sweet clicks.
     
  14. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yeah, NVidia can't build SoCs with x86 CPUs. How valuable that market is, remains questionable. NVidia was in Xbox before and I remember them claiming it was low margin and not worth pursuing.

    I think this is a vast over-reaction. As I posted earlier in response to another NVidia doomed post. The recent "bad" Q1, was still their second best everyQ1, beaten only by the Q1 that was inflated by crypto-mining bubble.

    Also if you check Steam, the supposedly terrible selling RTX cards are climbing the charts. The RTX 2070 already has bigger Steam install base than every AMD card but 1 (The RX 580).


    Yeah, you really don't know how they are doing. How about you check the financials for both companies and re-evaluate. Check Steam GPU reports to see how those "poor selling" RTX cards are doing.
     
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  15. Nolan7689

    Nolan7689 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Steam gives a general idea, and I wouldn’t dispute the 2070 doing well, but don’t take steam surveys as gospel.
     
  16. singe_101

    singe_101 2[H]4U

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    5870 was the best card and $379. GTX 480 for $499 did have more power, but not a big upgrade and at the cost of heat. The basic 267 mm cooler with one fan was overwhelmed. 305 mm dual fan at least made it more reasonable, but that cost more. 137W additional power consumption. Though the 5870 was also hot. https://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/10/26/msi_n480gtx_lightning_video_card_review/9
     
  17. SvenBent

    SvenBent 2[H]4U

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    Nothing is better than completion. Hate getting only half complete products:p


    OK I should probably be the last to point out typo's...
     
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  18. Flexion

    Flexion [H]ard|Gawd

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    OMG... Transmeta... I bought their stock back in the day. (A little of it.) I'm going to go cry in a corner now. XD
     
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  19. Flexion

    Flexion [H]ard|Gawd

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    It's good entertainment though.
     
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  20. Bankie

    Bankie [H]ard|Gawd

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    AMD is not in all of the consoles; the Switch uses a custom NV Tegra SOC. I don't know how it affects NV's bottom line but the statement "AMD is in ALL of the consoles", is false.
     
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  21. honegod

    honegod [H]ardness Supreme

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    Don't try to muddy matters by dragging Micro$oft into the puddle :)
     
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  22. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    I also lost a little scratch on that one.

    If your feeling lucky you can always keep tabs on Ditzels next big thing.... he has secured 100s of millions in funding again to build RiscV powered AI chips. All joking aside this play may have better odds then the hardware+software transmeta chips did. lol
    https://www.esperanto.ai/

    He struck out again with Thruchip but most people don't know that one as well. In that case they just got beat out by better more secure methods of 3D chip stacking. Although I think their TCI tech did get used on some flash memory.

    Anyway... watch out for that esperanto. ;)
     
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  23. Grimlaking

    Grimlaking 2[H]4U

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    I'm sorry you are absolutely correct. Nvidia put it's shield tech in Nintendo's hand held/console system. You are 100% correct.

    I have a buddy who has that system too it's pretty sweet for what it lets you do.

    Mobile Processing and gaming will get better and better and Nviida want's a solid part of that pie I don't blame them.
     
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  24. illli

    illli [H]ard|Gawd

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    sure we all know nv is notoriously greedy... oh, i'm sorry obligated to whatever whatever. maybe i should have said "should have been those prices if it were to convince me to buy one" because the price/performance just was not there vs yesteryear offerings.
     
  25. KD5ZXG

    KD5ZXG Limp Gawd

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    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  26. JayteeBates

    JayteeBates [H]ard|Poof

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    Honestly my MSI 980TI Seahawk does everything I ask it to at 1440. I like my monitor and until I go up in res with a new monitor it seems icky to say but I am good with what I have for now. I hope newer better faster comes out in the next gen or so. Until this card I haven't skipped a Video card update since the 3Dfx days.

    And frankly - my i7-6700K @ 4.2 still pairs fine with it
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
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  27. VIC-20

    VIC-20 Gawd

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    Well there is no real supply of 1070Ti/1080/1080Ti anymore for new prebuilt systems. Kind of hard to argue that RTX isn't selling well when every single brand name high end gaming machine is going to contain one at the moment.

    EDIT: I suppose there is some Radeon VII builds for sale right now, but insignificant compared to the number of HP and Dell machines with RTX cards for sale.
     
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  28. GoodBoy

    GoodBoy [H]ard|Gawd

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    Call me back when it's a 2080Ti refresh on 7nm.. so 3080Ti or whatever it will be called.
     
  29. wantapple

    wantapple Gawd

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    screw intel and nvidia, ill be buying amd stuff from now on.
     
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  30. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    :ROFLMAO:
     
  31. auntjemima

    auntjemima [H]ardness Supreme

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    I, too, like to spend my money on hotter and slower hardware.
     
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  32. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Well, better than hardware with nerfed "features". Of course, the hardware I buy is not slower in it's price range and is not all that much hotter but hey.......

    Oh well, thankfully, we have a choice as opposed to one company dictating terms.......
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
  33. Auer

    Auer Gawd

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    Cmon, youre not interested in choices.
     
  34. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    That is the point, we have choices right now. If we only had green cards, terms would be dictated to us and we would like it, because we are told to. :) :D
     
  35. Parja

    Parja Whineologist

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  36. Auer

    Auer Gawd

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    Life is not fair.
     
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  37. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    You've got some serious anger issues over what other people do with their own money.
     
  38. wantapple

    wantapple Gawd

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    WTF are you talking about? 9900K runs hotter than any amd CPU and RTX is Useless... seems like someone cant stand other ppl choises whitout getting triggered...
     
  39. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    What are you talking about?

    We're talking about video cards here.

    Works great and is the standard going forward.

    Well, someone is triggered enough to start whining off topic :ROFLMAO:
     
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  40. Gideon

    Gideon 2[H]4U

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    RTX is less used then VR and VR was way over hyped as the next big thing. What they will find out will be the same thing, no one is itching to drop a grand to have a sub par experience.