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Then you should have said that straight up instead of the lame heat excuse. What you really want is to make money mining, and you don’t really care about the heat - if heat were the primary motivation then folding at home or gimped hash rate wouldn’t matter.I don't want to contribute to someone else on my dime. I want to contribute to me.
The amount of time I spend gaming is less than the amount of time I can leave the computer on, consequence-free, earning money, which I can then use to improve my gaming library, upgrade, or waste on beer.
While gaming is really my main concern when buying hardware, sometimes even work hardware, mining's going to be a factor. I don't want either company neutering what is otherwise multi-purpose hardware.
What if AMD or Nvidia said they were going to limit the video rendering capabilities of their video cards to prevent professional users from buying up their inventory? People would be furious. Even peoople who don't make and edit video. There's a double standard here.
If mining is so profitable that miners mining can afford new hardware seemingly regardless of cost, mine while you sleep. It will at least take the edge off the cost of gaming.
why hack any driver? just use an older one that doesnt limit the hash rate. duh!
What excuse? Why should I pay for heat and get nothing when I can pay for heat and get more money back than I spent?Then you should have said that straight up instead of the lame heat excuse.
What you really want is to make money mining, and you don’t really care about the heat - if heat were the primary motivation then folding at home or gimped hash rate wouldn’t matter.What excuse? Why should I pay for heat and get nothing when I can pay for heat and get more money back than I spent?
The only excuse I'm seeing is mining is bad, mining is a problem ... well it's not for me. I'm using my hardware to kill two birds with one stone.
Sure it would. I'd be upset that the compute performance I was donating my energy to was being artificially constrained there, too. What matters is that there's an artificial bottleneck in the first place. It shouldn't be there, this is a PR stunt at best, and hobby level mining is just fine.heat were the primary motivation then folding at home or gimped hash rate wouldn’t matter
they prob are and that's what's causing the shortage. prob jensens cousins and nephews have mining startups and sending "the big guy" his cut tax free in bitcoin!?Why don't the big companies like nVidia just mine the crypto themselves?
The fact that they don't, tells me it's clearly not worth the effort.
what dude, who do you think built that company to what it is today? who was it that kept them going when mining died down and bought their overpriced 1st gen rt cards? GAMERS. yeah i'd say they owe us a little something. besides it's not like they wouldn't sell them regardless if mining was now hot again or not. and eventually it will die down again too just like bitcoin to where the only people making anything worthwhile are people with warehouses full of miners. then what who's gonna want them then? especially when someone figures out how to build a new asic that can beat a gpu, like before.As a gamer myself, not a miner, and more specfically, a gamer who was prepared to upgrade as soon as the 3080 was launched, I'm as frustrated as everyone else, but objectively, what do you expect Nvidia to do? We're not entitled to anything, we're just another customer class. If I'm Jensen Huang and a mining operation calls me up trying to fill a 747 Jumbo Jet full of GPUs (as happened in 2017) to mine fake internet money, what do you think he's going to say? "Sorry bro, I only work for gamers"? Is that what you would say if you were the CEO of Nvidia with a duty to shareholders to maximize sales and profits? If I'm a shareholder of Nvidia and I find out they're walking away from millions of dollars in sales and letting AMD have it, I would be absolutely livid.
That said, this driver thing won't do anything. Miners are typically technical people, they'll modify it as seen fit and resume as normal. They'll buy up the mining cards, and then buy up GPUs when those mining cards are out of stock and modify the drivers. Rinse, repeat. The only things that will help here are an increase in supply, or a crash in the crypto market. That's basically it. This announcement from Nvidia is obviously marketing to gamers to make them think they have their back or whatever, but it's not going to do anything to address the issue as far as I can see.
i think basically they are letting everyone know they are splitting the stock between gamers and miners. so that way ALL the cards don't go to miners and hopefully we won't see the price doubling we did the last mining boom for gaming cards. hell they're already doubled as it is.I know... this isn't a super popular opinion around these parts.
However;
if AMD really did on purpose cripple their RDNA2... they are retarded and deserve to loose money.
if Nvidia is going to firmware cripple 3060s so they can sell "mining" cards.... WTF is the point. If they don't cripple 3070s, and try and charge 3070 prices for 3060 chipped mining cards why would the miners not just buy 3070s and undervolt them or whatever tricks they employee. And if they are pulling the chips from the same pool WTF is the difference if there not trying to charge more for the mining cards. Which means the only point of this move is to make more MONEY for Nvidia.
If they do something like this is seems like PR for the gamerz and nothing more. This will not fix stock this will not ensure stock this will not effect how much money Nvidia makes. (cause try as they may miners will not pay more for the same card) Its PR, nothing more. And if as some have suggested AMD crippled RDNA2 in general... there fucking stupid only a company run by morons would turn down money.
I understand for long term sales security you want to keep gamers happy cause we will be around after the crypto hunters move on to ASICs or whatever. However the ASIC stuff seems to never be able to keep up with the rapid advancements in GPUs.... or the pricing of volume GPUs offer over custom ASICs that have zero resell when the hash leaves them behind. (not counting the massive mining companies making their own chips) There is a very good chance... that GPUs being used to mine is a thing that is NEVER going to end. Big companies are buying crypto currency in Billion dollar transactions. Crypto is not going away... and GPUs are going to be on the leading edge of mining them likely forever. Unless GPUs ever get to the fast enough for ever point.
Anyway Nice PR stunt Nvidia.... but I hope most people see it for exactly what it is, and don't fall for the Nvidia loves us its the evil crypto hunters line. Nvidia loves money and will sell to whoever pays cash.
EDIT... and thinking about AMD crippling RDNA2.... IF they had tons and tons of stock it would perhaps have been a stroke of genius. It would have ensured they sold more cards then Nvidia to gamers and perhaps start really eroding Nvidias mind share wins. I don't think they are playing 4D chess here though. Its very likely their cards are just not as good at crunching mining stuff cause that is the way it is.
i don't know, as a gamer, in this day and age and the way things are going, not sure i'd want to risk burning my shiny new price doubled gpu up mining and not be able to replace it and be stuck with a gtx 1030 or some sh**... guess depends on your priorites?I don't want to contribute to someone else on my dime. I want to contribute to me.
The amount of time I spend gaming is less than the amount of time I can leave the computer on, consequence-free, earning money, which I can then use to improve my gaming library, upgrade, or waste on beer.
While gaming is really my main concern when buying hardware, sometimes even work hardware, mining's going to be a factor. I don't want either company neutering what is otherwise multi-purpose hardware.
What if AMD or Nvidia said they were going to limit the video rendering capabilities of their video cards to prevent professional users from buying up their inventory? People would be furious. Even peoople who don't make and edit video. There's a double standard here.
If mining is so profitable that miners mining can afford new hardware seemingly regardless of cost, mine while you sleep. It will at least take the edge off the cost of gaming.
That would be too risky. Opens Nvidia up to lawsuits about intentional product performance reduction in order to promote the purchase of another product. They can likely get away with it for the 3060 because that GPU isn’t officially released yet and they have made a statement about the reduced performance before it is in anyone’s hands.But not the 3080?
Fuck you Nvidia.
Currently ETH mining is the most profitable by a large margin. ETH was specifically designed so that ASICs could not be used like they are with bitcoin. The mining algorithm is 100% random, and needs a large pool of memory that increases with time. It recently past 4GB (Which is why the 4GB cards are cheaper on ebay right now). Currently mining is more memory bound, than compute bound on most graphics cards. This is why the 5700 and 5700xt has the same hash rates.
The RDNA2 cards use a large cache system to utilize a slower memory bus to achive similar gaming performance with a smaller bus. I’m assuming this was done mainly for cost savings. The cache does very little to speed up the hash rate of ETH. This in turn makes it hash around 60mh/s only slightly faster than the 5700’s 50mh/s, even though the gaming performace is 2x as fast.
Whether AMD did this on purpose to nerf mining is anyone guess. I’ll go with cost savings, with nerfed mining performance as a side effect. Just my 2 cents.
If that's the reason why then I have zero problems with it. It's baked into the architecture to make the cards do cool stuff from a gaming perspective, and cost less (hah!). It's not nerfed, it's not artificial, it just is.The RDNA2 cards use a large cache system to utilize a slower memory bus to achive similar gaming performance with a smaller bus. I’m assuming this was done mainly for cost savings. The cache does very little to speed up the hash rate of ETH.
what dude, who do you think built that company to what it is today? who was it that kept them going when mining died down and bought their overpriced 1st gen rt cards? GAMERS. yeah i'd say they owe us a little something. besides it's not like they wouldn't sell them regardless if mining was now hot again or not. and eventually it will die down again too just like bitcoin to where the only people making anything worthwhile are people with warehouses full of miners. then what who's gonna want them then? especially when someone figures out how to build a new asic that can beat a gpu, like before.
Then you should have said that straight up instead of the lame heat excuse. What you really want is to make money mining, and you don’t really care about the heat - if heat were the primary motivation then folding at home or gimped hash rate wouldn’t matter.
Currently ETH mining is the most profitable by a large margin. ETH was specifically designed so that ASICs could not be used like they are with bitcoin. The mining algorithm is 100% random, and needs a large pool of memory that increases with time. It recently past 4GB (Which is why the 4GB cards are cheaper on ebay right now). Currently mining is more memory bandwidth bound, than compute bound on most graphics cards. This is why the 5700 and 5700xt has the same hash rates.
The RDNA2 cards use a large cache system with a smaller memory bus to achive similar gaming performance as a wide memory bus. I’m assuming this was done mainly for cost savings. The cache does very little to speed up the hash rate of ETH because of the inherent design of the software to combat small cache sizes for mining. This in turn makes it hash around 60mh/s only slightly faster than the 5700’s 50mh/s. Even though the gaming performace is 2x as fast, ETH hash rates are memory limited.
Whether AMD did this on purpose to nerf mining is anyone guess. I’ll go with cost savings, with nerfed mining performance as a side effect. Just my 2 cents.
That would be indeed strange, but if Sony/Microsoft was forking R&D, fear that console would be used to mine could have existed (I am going with a giant if here), unlike video card console bought for mining would matter I could imagine has all the money come from people using the product normally and not from the sales.I have no doubt cost savings was exactly the reason they did that. I'm quite sure that there have been zero board meetings at AMD where executives are like "OMG you guys, we're selling way too many cards to miners, we really need to do something to protect our 20% or so gaming market share!". Gimped mining performance was a consequence of that decision, but I'm sure AMD's marketing team will be happy to tell you they did that to do gamers a solid, 80% of whom are Nvidia customers and are totally pissed off at them for selling cards to miners.
Not sure how they could even remotely entertaining having any chance at doing thatbut it has confirmed to us that it is "not limiting the performance of GPUs already sold."
Currently ETH mining is the most profitable by a large margin. ETH was specifically designed so that ASICs could not be used like they are with bitcoin. The mining algorithm is 100% random, and needs a large pool of memory that increases with time. It recently past 4GB (Which is why the 4GB cards are cheaper on ebay right now). Currently mining is more memory bandwidth bound, than compute bound on most graphics cards. This is why the 5700 and 5700xt has the same hash rates.
The RDNA2 cards use a large cache system with a smaller memory bus to achive similar gaming performance as a wide memory bus. I’m assuming this was done mainly for cost savings. The cache does very little to speed up the hash rate of ETH because of the inherent design of the software to combat small cache sizes for mining. This in turn makes it hash around 60mh/s only slightly faster than the 5700’s 50mh/s. Even though the gaming performace is 2x as fast, ETH hash rates are memory limited.
Whether AMD did this on purpose to nerf mining is anyone guess. I’ll go with cost savings, with nerfed mining performance as a side effect. Just my 2 cents.
Miners aren't stupid... that tends to be why they don't buy mining cards.i think basically they are letting everyone know they are splitting the stock between gamers and miners. so that way ALL the cards don't go to miners and hopefully we won't see the price doubling we did the last mining boom for gaming cards. hell they're already doubled as it is.
Interesting.
GPU production is constrained by the availability of high end substrates.
Making a Mining ASIC instead of a GPU makes it look like you're doing product segmentation to "save" the gaming GPU market, but it's obfuscating the fact that you're still diverting your very limited production capacity to fulfill the mining market.
Something else that should be a factor here. ETH 2.0 is here, and staking will eventually take over mining. Lots of people are speculating when that will happen, but I’m sure nobody will want to be stuck with a bunch of useless mining cards when that happens. GPUs can be sold if mining stops being profitable, mining cards cannot.Miners aren't stupid... that tends to be why they don't buy mining cards.
That is the problem. Nvidia will make a token number of these.... and miners will continue to buy cards they can resell. (even the people buying them in lots of 100)
This is a PR stunt. Don't be taken by it. Its intended to make gamers think Nvidia hates those dastardly miners.... who BUY cards in lots of 100. lol Its also intended to make skittish investors who see Nvidias ARM thing perhaps dying that Nvidia is all over the making of cash... and Crypto is where its at. I mean their money people are telling them to park in the Crypto pool.... good thing Nvidia is on that too. lol
The entire idea of "mining" GPUs is silly.... the real big mining companies are using ASICs, the medium size guys are buying cards in stupid large lots and selling them out of the Farm after they do their 6 months is built into the costs of acquisition. (no one that currently has a 100 card farm where they turn the cards over every 6 months for a new pool is going to go for cards that they can't resell) The hobbyists are even less likely to buy a mining card... as they are often just mining to pay for their stupid gaming card. Mining cards are a product with zero need. PR STUNT.
That's ridiculous!That would be too risky. Opens Nvidia up to lawsuits about intentional product performance reduction in order to promote the purchase of another product.
Doesn’t matter. If they didn’t release the CMPs at the same time as halving the hash rate performance then it would be easier for Nvidia to defend.That's ridiculous!
Its a graphics card designed for 3D Acceleration NOT Bitcoin mining.
Of course it matters, its not intended for cryptocurrency mining. Period. They can do whatever they want with the drivers, they own it.Doesn’t matter. If they didn’t release the CMPs at the same time as halving the hash rate performance then it would be easier for Nvidia to defend.
But trying to defend an intentional, significant performance decrease for a product already on the market to steer those customers towards another product where they have to spend more money to get something they already had is going to be hard.
Where does it say it’s not intended for cryptocurrency mining? It may not be its primary purpose but no where did the product description say it’s not supposed to be used for mining.Of course it matters, its not intended for cryptocurrency mining. Period. They can do whatever they want with the drivers, they own it.
Have you ever seen a 3D Accelerator offically marketed for cryptocurrency mining? I haven't.Where does it say it’s not intended for cryptocurrency mining? It may not be its primary purpose but no where did the product description say it’s not supposed to be used for mining.
It's not ridiculous at all.That's ridiculous!
Its a piece of hardware designed for 3D Acceleration NOT Bitcoin mining. Anything done on it such as bitcoin mining is secondary and not intended for its original purpose & promotion.
That would be my defense and I would win.
Yes. Indeed it is.It's not ridiculous at all.
I also haven’t seen it marketed as it could only be used as a 3D Accelerator either.Have you ever seen a 3D Accelerator offically marketed for cryptocurrency mining? I haven't.
Cmon now...don't play games. You know that's all they are advertised for.I also haven’t seen it marketed as it could only be used as a 3D Accelerator either.
Just because they’re advertised for one thing doesn’t mean they don’t have uses for other things. Many people use them for machine learning as well.Cmon now...don't play games. You know that's all they are advertised for.