NVIDIA NDA & HardOCP - POLL

HardOCP Signs the NVIDIA NDA for 2080 Launch Access?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

iamjanco

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 8, 2016
Messages
460
I voted no, don't sign it. While I use NVIDIA products, as far as their marketing tactics go, I think wang and crew have their heads so far up their rears that they're poking out the front.
 

DeathFromBelow

Supreme [H]ardness
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grumpy-cat-no-1-300x234.jpg
 
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Water under the bridge for both parties.

It'd be the cost of the 2080Ti, 2080, 2070, 2060 and maybe cards for SLI as well. I am sure some folks here would gladly kick in a few bucks, some of us are Patreons, but to pull out a couple of grand isn't quite that easy.

And then the next gen comes, and you'll need a couple of grand AGAIN. The people who will ACTUALLY open up their wallets every cycle is going to be small. Loyal and awesome, but small. I don't think that's a great plan.

It doesn't make sense to me just to shy from a very common practice (regarding the NDA.)
I'm sure [H] could use that money in more effective ways than to pay (IMHO!) fairly high prices for review samples.
 

Donald Bell

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 24, 2018
Messages
160
Simple fix...

Buy your own review samples.

Set up a GPU give away when your done with your testing. Make it a raffle where every $x amount of money donated Via Patreon gets you one entry. (ok first check what the rules are on such things where your company is located so you don't run into any potential issues there). I have no doubt your costs would be covered or close to covered anyway. Worse case if there are rules in Texas regarding the running of raffles or something... just sell your cards on the used market for 80% of their value. Paying 20-30% of the cost to pick up testing samples doesn't seem that crazy to me.

Having said that if you choose to sign, I think everyone still respects your opinion. Hey man its your lively hood. Choice is yours.
Can't do that as it would be considered gambling. That stuff only works with NPOs/Charities.
 
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clockdogg

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 12, 2007
Messages
1,157
Reviewer blocked and loaded by NDA = Free Video Cards

Last remaining independent review site = Priceless

Kyle, the value of [H] is all about you and your willingness to tell it like it is. No one says no to Nvidia. Except you.

If you decline this NDA, next time they'll have to sweeten the offer - not just free video cards, but free self driving cars, free AI server stack to addict your readers to [H] even more. Tough call.
 
Joined
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Messages
691
hardocp has best reviews, not first reviews. you could sell both those cards in the streets for a loss of only a couple hundred buck if you wanted to get rid of them immediately. OR you could stamp them as hardocp test copies and run an auction for all the mogolitos here
 

Eruden

n00b
Joined
Aug 12, 2006
Messages
17
I say yes, sign it. I work in the tech industry and I ask my clients to sign an NDA before revealing anything on our roadmap, it's common industry practice. I know there's some questionable language in the NVIDIA agreement, but it's in there, like some others have said, to prevent questionable reviewers from disclosing information publicly. It's not going to change the way professional journalists do business, and it shouldn't influence the reviews here. Yes, there is a matter of pride and politics to be considered, but ultimately this will give your fans a better experience in the long run. Let's be honest, NVIDIA isn't going anywhere soon, and having at least a "neutral" relationship with them is going to make everyone's life easier.
 
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Messages
691
or you could come up with a set of code phrases and give them to the forum before you sign the nda, then you could give us secret messages if you were bound by an nda for some info
 

ChadD

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
Messages
5,374
Can't do that as it would be considered gambling. That stuff only works with NPOs/Charities.

Perhaps Kyle can incorporate as a religious org ?

I joke... ya wasn't sure what the rules would be where he is but I'm sure your correct.

Really if he isn't going to sign the best option is to simply sell the review samples. Review samples sold 1-2 months after a card launch are not going to loose a ton of value. Obviously it would still cost more then free cards with strings. (or would it)

Which makes me think there may be even yet another option. Perhaps their is a third party such as Newegg that would be willing to trade discounts. 20% discount on ads on [H] for 20% discount on cards Kyle buys to review. (even just giving Kyle staff discount which is often cost +5% or something) This would also cut down on his costs... and if he sold them after he may be out nothing at all. Counting possible ad sales to a partner he could actually end up ahead.
 

[H]aggis

n00b
Joined
Jul 1, 2004
Messages
10
For more years than I care to remember, [H]ardOCP has been one of my daily visits. Whilst the NDA does seem excessive in its term of 5 years, I think that it'll be a really sad day to come to the site, only to have to click through to somewhere else to look at their review instead of one by Kyle and the team. The F**k Nvidia, stick it to the man posts are somewhat understandable, but a bit short-sighted in my opinion as NDAs are here to stay and probably not going to change anytime soon.

Part of the reason I come here to [H]ardOCP is for some of the best, unbiased reviews, by gamers, for gamers of the cutting-edge hardware I want to hear about. Without seeing the NDA it's impossible to say, but I don't think that it is strangling the journalistic integrity of the review process - if the cards are a steaming pile, I trust that the guys here are going to tell us that. I understand that there would have been significant issues in raising GPP had the NDA been in place, but it would be with heavy heart I come here on the day the NDA lifts not to find a review. Voted yes but would understand if you didn’t sign.
 

SixFootDuo

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 5, 2004
Messages
5,789
Ignore the no's on the vote.

You accomplished your goal, to inform people. Job well done.

Maybe nVidia realizes what they were doing / attempting to do was not really the best course of action. This gesture could be their amends.

Staying sour about anything is never good.

Let's get the review sample, turn a new page and start fresh.

To anyone that want's to hold on to this, you're only hurting yourself.

Companies make bad bad business decisions daily world-wide. We are just lucky that HardOCP fought the good fight.

Also, I personally do not like when HardOCP takes a swipes at nVidia.

What an excellent out-come.

Take the card, do the review and lets build a new relationship with nVidia for the benefit of this community.

And, if at anytime in the future something goes sideways then we can deal with that issue then.
 
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griff30

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 15, 2000
Messages
6,571
On my phone can't read the NDA.

If they gave you access and early sample it's a go, as long as the review isn't crippled by some rules. Like they have to okay the review.

It's their review product and it's been a long time since far as the tech world is concerned.

Give them an olive branch.
 

spintroniX

Gawd
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
974
Here's another perspective:

[H] is a business. A business has an obligation to make money, to take care of its founder and employees. Not signing the NDA means shelling out money that could be better leveraged producing other content, thus reducing the work for your people and content for your viewers.

Nothing I've seen indicates you have to compromise your integrity. The reviews and content will continue to be unbiased.

There's also no down side to signing, as far as I can see. You save money, get to create more content, and we still get quality reviews.

GPP is dead. You won. No point in continuing to fight when you've won.
 

Nauseous

Gawd
Joined
Jun 5, 2004
Messages
890
while i appreciate leaving it up to the community, i think you need to decide this for yourself as it affects your business and traffic on the site. so either way you choose im good with it.
 

Gideon

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 13, 2006
Messages
2,898
Ignore the no's on the vote.

You accomplished your goal, to inform people. Job well done.

Maybe nVidia realizes what they were doing / attempting to do was not really the best course of action. This gesture could be their amends.

Staying sour about anything is never good.

Let's get the review sample, turn a new page and start fresh.

To anyone that want's to hold on to this, you're only hurting yourself.

Companies make bad bad business decisions daily world-wide. We are just lucky that HardOCP fought the good fight.

Also, I personally do not like when HardOCP takes a swipes at nVidia.

What an excellent out-come.

Take the card, do the review and lets build a new relationship with nVidia for the benefit of this community.

And, if at anytime in the future something goes sideways then we can deal with that issue then.


After he signs they will feel free to launch GPP 2, didnt see other sites with the balls to post it until he did. If he signs he will be restrained by the NDA or it maybe not but it may allow Nvidia the excuse to sue him and tie it up in court and I dont think Kyle is going for another round in court costs. A few days later is just fine with me on a hardware review, having a review ready the day of a launch is just not a big of a deal. I always waited for a few trusted review sites before I made a decision on a card.
 

Zarathustra[H]

Extremely [H]
Joined
Oct 29, 2000
Messages
32,825
Wow, I'll have to think about this one before voting.

It's a tough choice. On the one hand, it's probably much better for HardOCP to have first day coverage and not have to spend big money on GPU's.

That said, Nvidias new non-disclosure agreement is an overt affront to all things free journalism and hurts the community.

I guess I'd ask a question right back. Kyle, if you - during your reviews, or during the period after covered by this NDA - came across something big (like GPP or 3.5GB issue, etc. etc.) that was blocked by the NDA, what would you do? Report it anyway because the people deserve to know, or be cowed by the NDA? And what would the consequences be for violating the NDA if necessary?

If you signed the NDA and did the latter, I couldn't hold it against you, no one needs that kind of legal trouble with a multi-billion dollar corporation. (Let's be clear, this is no Infineum Labs. Nvidia has by far the deepest pockets for courtroom adventures) but then there is a risk that important stories Nvidia doesn't like won't be covered.

We also don't want a major lawsuit resulting in the end of HardOCP.

Given how big control freaks and anti-competition Nvidia has become, it would be awful to lose the lone voice currently holding them to account.

Having talked it through with myself in this post, due to the "greater good" I think my vote would have to be for "don't sign". It really sucks to have to make this choice though.

Seriously, fuck Nvidia. They are becoming as bad or worse than Intel was during the height of their illegal business practices and compiler cheating during the Athlon era.

These tech companies need to learn that they can't control the narrative, and trying to use lawyers and the courts to do so only makes them look like the bad guys.

Based on this, if AMD ever returns to being anywhere near Nvidias halo product performance level, I'm guaranteed to drop Nvidia for AMD.
 
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borealnw

n00b
Joined
Apr 23, 2005
Messages
46
Hi Kyle

Long time bud. All these years this is my first site to look at every night after work. I respect you and your integrity over the years.

I voted no for many reasons.

1. It costs to have morals, conscience and integrity. The truth these days is expensive.
2. I've followed the dark days with [H] and NV. What you did was best and right, what they did was underhanded and low.
3. I like the idea of signing and selling the reviewed cards. If I am going to pay retail for a card why not pay for a tested and signed card for the same price. Even if you loose a hundred on each card it is cheaper then your values.
4. The only way I would say yes is if NV signs a formal apology to you and [H] for all to see. I mean a humble and groveling apology.
5. IMHO who in there right mind wants a stock from NV card? I never have and never will buy one. So why is it that important? Yes I read the reviews but the only reviews that count in "my" purchase experience will be from after market vendors.

Regardless of your decision I got your back bro.

Jeff M.
 

Icon_Charlie

Weaksauce
Joined
Aug 3, 2018
Messages
100
This is my first posting on this site though I am not a newbie in this field. I've been building rigs for over 28 years and been involved with the entertainment industry for over 40. I even was a reporter on a tech site during the late 90's early 2000's then I wised up a bit :) . From a professional aspect you can always write off the cost of the video cards as a business expense. I often do when I build rigs for review on a private forum.

So my answer is no. We all know what kinds of games Nvidia does and I am not happy with the launch. It was incredibly poor in quality as it had recycled video from a previous show. It is deceptive in its approach of its measurements. Which has lead to several of us being rather concerned that the cost of the new video cards are because of the impact of the overstock of the 1100 series of chipsets (over 1 million of them rumored to be 3 million floating around). This is what happens when you run a monopoly. Nvidia is a monopoly as they continue to artificially inflate their entire video card line up. This is why this Launch was laid out as it is. This is why 2 year old chipsets floating around their launch prices as of this writing. This is utter BS Nvidia is doing. And then they want you to sign a NDA agreement???? Yea.... Sure... They think I have an Idiot Tattooed on my Forehead.

So my answer again is no. I can write this off and an expense and so you should be able to do so as well.
 

ChadD

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
Messages
5,374
After being reminded by Zarathustra how litigious Nvidia tends to be....

Don't sign shit Kyle. Its a trap. lol

Really though I have zero doubt that if you sign... and step even a Toe over the line ever. They will fully engage their hell spawn... I mean legal team, to kill [H], with maximum effort.

Just say no... find a good online card retailer willing to be listed as a [H] sponsor... for cost deals on cards, or better if you can swing it. Put your salesman pants on. Use what you have to spend as a tax deduction... and be free.

Your reviews may be a week or two behind. So what. Perhaps its time for the sheep to stop pre ordering hardware, and buying day one after reading one paid for marketing spew review, that has been replicated on 20 different sites.
 

Aenra

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 15, 2017
Messages
191
You should have already signed it; if still time, do so now and never mind your already having samples for this generation.

There's being 'on the edge' of the news/reviews section and then there's 'crying wolf'.
(which deserved or not, is attributed to people complaining/protesting very often)
Stay inside the ever expanding circle of vultures (read: media satellites), stay involved, stay prominent, stay credible; then fight your battles as and where you see fit. Or beneficial..

This NDA has an effect on certain things; but it can be circumvented. Most importantly, it does not prohibit result publication.
Ergo? i) Major news a-la GPP can still be addressed, albeit in a bit more creative manner, ii) faulty cards or misleading aspects can be shown whenever an embargo is lifted, nothing holds you back there.

Don't be the hard ass; be the smart one. They tend to outlast the former.
Best regards :)
 

ecuador

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
207
I would say no, but only if it does not pose a threat (financial etc) to the site. You can still "fight them" from within if they pull crap if you have to sign the NDA to survive.
 

DPI

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
11,915
How does honesty benefit Nvidia if the card is a disappointment for the money?
Backwards question. Sounds like you're misinterpreting "for the benefit of Nvidia" on the NDA as literal, rather than the bog standard legal-speak that it is. Suddenly everyone thinks they're a lawyer.

Again there's nothing in the NDA that prevents negativity in a review. Or "morals". Or "conscience".

And based on the pricepoints Nv has set for the new cards, they seem pretty confident in what third party benchmarks are going to reveal. So the only real disappointment will be for those hoping this was going to be some big stumble for Nvidia.
 
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Schmave

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 2, 2001
Messages
1,720
I voted NO. That said, if you feel it is in your best interest to sign it, then go ahead and do so. But I wanted to throw a few things out there:

  1. As a long time [H] reader, I will always read [H] GPU reviews, even if they were to come out a couple of weeks after launch. I think most regular [H] readers would do the same. What you would be missing out on would be the traffic that comes from casual google searches for GPU X review on release day.
  2. Look at the percentage of revenue the site gets from day 1 Nvidia related reviews/articles that you would not be able to publish on day 1 without signing the NDA. I'm guessing release day Nvidia GPU reviews may be a small percentage of overall site revenues since GPU releases don't happen that often (of course I could be wrong, so you should look at your own numbers). But since [H] does so many other types of reviews (motherboards, CPUs, coolers, chairs, etc.) it may not be that big of a hit.
  3. As others have said, you can likely re-sell your GPUs on the forums at close to cost. However, since [H] often does many follow-up reviews on a particular card, or compares cards of different generations, you might have to keep that cash tied up in a card for a while. That will become a cash flow issue even if it isn't a drain long term.
  4. As a tech journalist, you are a reporter. [H] is my go to tech website because you aren't afraid to write what you actually think, consequences be damned. I really admire that. But also think about reporters in any other "industry". Would a political reporter sign an NDA like this? Doubtful. I do believe signing the NDA would prevent you from publishing articles like the GPP or AMD to ATI Futility type articles, even if you obtained information outside of official channels. Nvidia could always come after you, even if you are in the right, and you'd then be spending a bunch of time and money on legal issues.
  5. Presumably if you don't sign the NDA today you could sign it sometime in the future. You may try getting by without signing but if it really starts hurting the site you could change your mind. If you sign it today it's probably harder to get out of the deal. You don't want to be in Lando's shoes with a deal that keeps getting worse all the time.
  6. Your lawyer says the NDA smells fishy.
Thanks for all your hard work Kyle.
 

Seelenlos

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 27, 2005
Messages
1,156
I'm not voting because there are pros and cons to both and I don't feel qualified to chime in.
It looks like most people here will back you no matter which way you go.

Since I'm not voting anyone care to tell me what the poll results are so far? :)
 

dgz

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
Messages
5,838
I think I would sign the motherfucking NDA. I mean if it means the difference between a healthy [H] and downward spiral, then yeah, I'd take a bit tamer [H] over not having it at all.

On the other hand, are you telling me you'd be contractually obliged to run your stories with nvidia first? Don't want that.
 

Gasaraki_

Gawd
Joined
Oct 27, 2016
Messages
617
Man, this site is a joke now. All the analysis from the other sites are saying that the NDA is a fairly standard NDA. HardOCP has to make a big deal out of it to generate controversy. Just don't sign it. Go buy the card when it comes out.
 

ianken

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
1,953
That NDA is pretty vanilla. It in no way prevents honest reporting. So, yes.
 

azuza001

Gawd
Joined
Apr 4, 2012
Messages
697
I understand why you would want to sign it for the benefit of not having to drop thousands of dollars on new cards to review them for us, the consumers who come here for reviews. If this nda was simply about this one product i would say sure. But multi year? No, your journalistic integrity is worth more than that. Even if it ment i didnt read the review until a month or two later i would still wait because your opinions at hard ocp matter more to me. So i vote no.
 

pendragon1

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
32,526
Man, this site is a joke now. All the analysis from the other sites are saying that the NDA is a fairly standard NDA. HardOCP has to make a big deal out of it to generate controversy. Just don't sign it. Go buy the card when it comes out.
kyle already paid for 2x 2080 and 2x 2080ti. so hes not joking around...
 
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ianken

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
1,953
Man, this site is a joke now. All the analysis from the other sites are saying that the NDA is a fairly standard NDA. HardOCP has to make a big deal out of it to generate controversy. Just don't sign it. Go buy the card when it comes out.

LOL. They already ordered the cards. It's right at the top of the post. :rolleyes:
 

Schwartz

n00b
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
40
I voted no. Maybe you can find an alternate way to get ahold of one sooner. If not it doesn't matter. I am going to go increase my patreon amount right now.
 

DPI

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
11,915
Fun fact: Guess where all the "No, Kyle dont give up your morulz!" screamers are going to be on launch day? Off reading the reviews and benches at all the other sites that signed the NDA.

No one is actually going to change their own behavior to be congruent with their posturing here, they're simply declaring that they're fine with Kyle missing out.
 
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mvmiller12

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 7, 2011
Messages
1,107
Like many here, I agree that you should field your concerns with a lawyer before deciding. If the lawyer sees complications with future coverage or potential compromise to your journalistic integrity, then definitely NO, otherwise sign it.
 
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