Nvidia : Market Manipulation

[kirbyrj]

Well written reviews are something I miss terribly. Between the forums and the reviews I got most of my information from the [H] back in the day and... god do I miss that... There's too much shit in most of the videos where people drone on and on endlessly about their opinions (Moores Law Is Dead.... I almost can't stand watching his stuff anymore regardless of how accurate he is) and such. Then there is the banter between people on livestreams that destroys my immersion into why I watch Youtubers. Some I watch, most I turn off less than half way through.

Skipping around in well written articles is an awesome luxury and almost a thing of the past.

That's not unique to hardware sites. That's journalism as a whole in the past 30 years. It's amazing how many typos make it into website articles and what's left of local newspapers not to mention the content that seems like it was written by a 5th grader.

 

[noko]

Well written reviews are something I miss terribly. Between the forums and the reviews I got most of my information from the [H] back in the day and... god do I miss that... There's too much shit in most of the videos where people drone on and on endlessly about their opinions (Moores Law Is Dead.... I almost can't stand watching his stuff anymore regardless of how accurate he is) and such. Then there is the banter between people on livestreams that destroys my immersion into why I watch Youtubers. Some I watch, most I turn off less than half way through.

Skipping around in well written articles is an awesome luxury and almost a thing of the past.

Yep, you see 95% talking heads at times and not much else and then it becomes what is the point of that video, show off their makeup?

 

[sjaxkingpin]

Seems sleazy for sure, but nothing illegal going on. If you don't like what Nvidia is doing, you can just not buy the new cards. Nothing you do will speak louder than hanging onto your dollars.

 

[Lakados]

Seems sleazy for sure, but nothing illegal going on. If you don't like what Nvidia is doing, you can just not buy the new cards. Nothing you do will speak louder than hanging onto your dollars.

It's not even that sleazy, it's simple inventory control, the thing that landed them in a lawsuit a few years back when they failed to do it and were forced to buy back all those unused 1xxx series chips from their AIB partners after the last crypto crash. I mean jokes on them though they just turned those into the CMP lineup and sold them at a substantial markup, because yes the CMP cards sold.

 

[Bankie]

HWUB posts their reviews to Techspot. TPU is pretty good for written reviews and I believe we have a resident [H] member that writes for them.

 

[PC-Only]

On the original topic, people are all jumping on Jayz in this thread without watching the video, yelling "Murica! Free Market!." He specifically says Nvidia is doing nothing illegal and that other big tech companies do the same. The video is just a warning that Nvidia is likely trying to create a continuing artificial supply shortage and keep prices high. All the while they will likely continue to blame legitimate general supply shortages that no longer actually affect them and inflation (which will only account for a portion of the continuing price hikes).

He never said any of this was illegal or unique to Nvidia. He is just saying "be prepared" and make your purchasing decisions based on common sense and not just give Nvidia whatever they want because they are backed into a corner due to supply shortages and inflation. Because if there are any shortages, they will be intentional ones to artificially inflate prices. I guess informed consumers is bad too now in America's "free market" ?

This is just anti-consumer and exploitative behavior, using a dominant market position to extend a supply shortage and extremely inflated prices that was originally caused by a deadly global health crisis. But nothing illegal, nothing abnormal in the industry, and Jayz stated that.

 

[Lakados]

On the original topic, people are all jumping on Jayz in this thread without watching the video, yelling "Murica! Free Market!." He specifically says Nvidia is doing nothing illegal and that other big tech companies do the same. The video is just a warning that Nvidia is likely trying to create a continuing artificial supply shortage and keep prices high. All the while they will likely continue to blame legitimate general supply shortages that no longer actually affect them and inflation (which will only account for a portion of the continuing price hikes).

He never said any of this was illegal or unique to Nvidia. He is just saying "be prepared" and make your purchasing decisions based on common sense and not just give Nvidia whatever they want because they are backed into a corner due to supply shortages and inflation. Because if there are any shortages, they will be intentional ones to artificially inflate prices. I guess informed consumers is bad too now in America's "free market" ?

This is just anti-consumer and exploitative behavior, using a dominant market position to extend a supply shortage and extremely inflated prices that was originally caused by a deadly global health crisis. But nothing illegal, nothing abnormal in the industry, and Jayz stated that.

The only people who can fight this are us the consumer by not purchasing the cards that we don't believe offer us the "value" we are looking for, and potentially AMD. IF (big if here) AMD comes out swinging with better price/performance metrics and supply to match Nvidia would be forced to come down or release more stock. Chances are though AMD is just going to chase the larger margins as well because their bonuses are just as reliant on the Investors being happy as Nvidia's are and nobody is forcing them to come back down.

 

[PC-Only]

The only people who can fight this are us the consumer by not purchasing the cards that we don't believe offer us the "value" we are looking for, and potentially AMD. IF (big if here) AMD comes out swinging with better price/performance metrics and supply to match Nvidia would be forced to come down or release more stock. Chances are though AMD is just going to chase the larger margins as well because their bonuses are just as reliant on the Investors being happy as Nvidia's are and nobody is forcing them to come back down.

Yep I completely agree, and unfortunately you are probably right about AMD's plans. In 2019 I needed a new GPU to do some things on my four year old computer that my four year old GPU could not do. Was not ready to build a new PC yet due to Intel still on 14nm and I wanted to wait until both Intel and AMD had good offerings to compare. Prices were already going up due to mining, but bought a 2070 Super (previously had always bought ATI/AMD cards due to value).

My six year old computer was getting really sluggish by the end of last year when I built a new one. I bought high-end, quality parts for everything except GPU. With those prices, I just moved the 2070 Super and switched to onboard Intel graphics with the old PC. Definitely keeping this 2070 Super for multiple more years unless prices from either AMD or Nvidia come way back down. It's ridiculous that Nvidia is charging what they are charging for the 3000 series and yet still squeezing out every penny they can by not even including 16GB of VRAM on their cards like AMD does.

 

[GoodBoy]

Jayz is a dipshit..

So many Techtuber reviewers are shit... when they change from being a real reviewer to an Influencer. He wasn't so bad years ago but now.. not going to give him the view. LTT is mostly annoying to listen to as well, save for a few videos where there was useful information (like the refresh rate comparison vs players, across multiple refresh rates). I think GN is one of the better ones but even them I haven't watched anything from in awhile.

Reviewer turned Influencer, just becomes worthless.
Lately I just rely on Amazon reviews but even those can be spammed with positive reviews.. you gotta be wary and read between the lines.

 

[bonehead123]

I've said it before, but it bears repeating...

A) Supply & Demand
B) Demand & Supply

Capitalism 101 at it's finest, although most folks here would probably say this has a (rather large) dose of steroids added in, you know, just in case, hehehe

 

[Sir Beregond]

I checked them out when I heard people recommending them, but I found their channel "odd." They posted a performance comparison video between I believe the 5800X3D and "Intel" for Stellaris, a real-time 4x strategy game that is notorious for poor performance as the game progresses. Single thread performance is king in it. Modern reviewers (even the technical YouTuber ones like Gamers Nexus and Hardware Unboxed) do a really bad job at reviewing CPU performance on games, since they typically don't include CPU-intensive games in their tests. So this was a unique video. But as I already mentioned, the comparison was "5800X3D" vs "Intel".

All through the video they kept referencing exact performance numbers and differences between the 5800X3D and "Intel" (5800X3D was winning). By the end of the several minute video, they still had not stated what "Intel" model they tested against - could have been multiple generations old for all viewers know. I have no idea what the point was of a performance comparison that did not identify the second of two models tested - there was not a single comment on the video that called them out on it either. Maybe it was intentionally trying to generate controversy for publicity, but it failed? I just assumed it was an AMD fanboy channel instead of an impartial fact-based one, so I did not continue watching any others.

They were a split from Ten Syndicate back in the day when that channel was relevant. I agree, they come off as odd sometimes.

Interesting topic turned to YouTuber Content, MSI was caught or exposed through Hardware Unbox trying to manipulate. Anyways the standards for GPU reviews have fallen way down on these video reviews. Their reliance for support from companies seems to be increasing as ad revenues shrink. I like how Hardware Unbox buys many of their review samples from the support they get from their patreon support. Still I find their video reviews lacking, while running a bunch of canned benchmarks, the quality or checks to make sure stutter, anomalies, real game performance (game benchmarks can be very much different then actual game play and optimized for in the drivers) is totally missing.

The masters of the written reviews of the past has virtually disappeared, too bad, where you can analyze quickly by going back and forth through the article much easier than a video plus much more streamline and faster to obtain the information, I can read a hell a lot faster than video pace, pause as needed to reread and take in what was being said.

How anyone can make money now with a well reviewed/edited/thought about written review would be very challenging. AIBs, OEMs etc. just has more presence on the easy to click on video showcasing their products plus finding a wishy washy youtuber willing to take your money to speak nicely about your product appears to be just too easy. The utterly narrow minded approach and lack of testing copycatted across virtually all the channels is very disappointing. Personally I would like to see well researched, professionally written/edited (nailing the points) back by video to enhance what was found since video can show and point out specifics on things harder to express via just text. Plus real exploration, dig deep into the details, peel that onion so to speak which is totally absent today on the amatuer or elementary school level content.

If Actually Hardcore Overclocking (Buildzoid) put to text his many very informative videos, that would be a Goldmine for real Overclockers and builders to improve their skills. Going through his videos and remembering etc. and putting to use is a total different problem.

Problem with these Tech-Tubers is that they want to claim to be independent reviewers, but in reality most of them are all just influences, sponsored and paid by all the companies whose products they are reviewing. I just find them to be marketing channels at this stage. And I agree, you do get some that buy their own products, but often time the methods of testing or weird things seen are just not dealt with.

I miss old school written reviews.

Jayz is a dipshit..

So many Techtuber reviewers are shit... when they change from being a real reviewer to an Influencer. He wasn't so bad years ago but now.. not going to give him the view. LTT is mostly annoying to listen to as well, save for a few videos where there was useful information (like the refresh rate comparison vs players, across multiple refresh rates). I think GN is one of the better ones but even them I haven't watched anything from in awhile.

Reviewer turned Influencer, just becomes worthless.
Lately I just rely on Amazon reviews but even those can be spammed with positive reviews.. you gotta be wary and read between the lines.

The only problem with GN is Steve drones on and on in his monotone manner and his videos end up way longer than they need to be. I'm guessing that's to maximize something with revenue/YouTube algorithm. Still, it's annoying.

 

[bluestang]

EVGA cutting ties with NVIDIA:
https://hardforum.com/threads/evga-no-longer-making-gpus.2021961/

So, I go back to my original statements of NVIDIA's tactics of "forcing" AIB to buy quantities at prices that are not sustainable for profit for anyone but NVIDIA:

My question would be if the AIBs having huge inventories is because of the Purchase contracts they had to sign in order to get needed parts. Were the AIBs "forced" to order quantities that were unrealistic in delivery by NVIDIA let alone unrealistic in the ability to actually sell that quantity of inventory? It's not like the AIBs cam come out and say it w/o getting sent to the back of waiting list the next time parts are actually needed.

That's why I used 'forced" in quotes. As someone who does procurement for parts myself, I have seen 1st hand what happens when there is only 1 company (in this case 2) in the world who makes a certain part. MOQ are put in place along with the higher prices to match to force you to buy way more than you will ever need for a product cycle. I wouldn't called that "discounting based on quantities".

We had one supplier who tried this with a certain type of RF product we needed by starting to require a $5000 min line qty per PO. Luckily, one phone call to the company that was our customer (big player in the RF and Defense world) of the final product that we build for them and that was no longer an issue. We are a small company, but our customer was the suppliers largest customer by far. They were told in no uncertain words to not fuck with the little guy. We got lucky, most other companies are not that lucky.

So I quess my point/question was is that we don't know what NVIDIA may have in place for MOQs or shipment releases or any of that. Nor would the AIBs be able to disclose that without future repercussions IMO.

Imagine of other AIB do this as well.

 

[DukenukemX]

LTT is generally pretty anti-Apple.

I would agree until the Apple M1's were released two years ago where they've been praising it with nothing but admiration. Since then they've been doing shit battery tests and didn't even bother to compare the M2 to AMD's Rembrandt. Linus has complained about piracy when nobody watches his ads and how he doesn't offer warranty for the overpriced crap on their store. Linus is a shrewd businessman who will do anything to make a dollar, and that includes siding with AIB's by telling viewers to go out and buy graphic cards.

Jay's builds mostly have not been high budget builds except for a 1x/yr dual GPU showcase PC (which I think he stopped when Ampere was released in 2019). He's been paid to do a handful of 3090 builds, but those are the exception not the norm. But since those are shill builds, even those had at most 64GB RAM and a single 1TB NVMe drive.

Jay doesn't have any content worth watching. I stayed subscribed just because I was hoping he'd make something informative. After that video with him telling everyone to buy graphic cards or you're idiots, I'm staying unsubscribed.