NVIDIA Looks to Gag Journalists with Multi-Year Blanket NDAs

techie81 said:
I don't think this is Kyle's first rodeo.
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No doubt, no doubt.

Its fuked up, but I have figured out why its happening, its because nvidia has turned into the village people and they are pissed off at the world because they were not allowed to change their gender on their passports and the cowboy got banned from the rodeo for trying to ride a bull.

Fuck Nvidia.
 
DPI said:
How does a review site agreeing not to publish confidential information about a GPU prior to an embargo date equate to being biased? Just curious.

You'd think Nvidia invented NDAs with some of the gamerchair lawyers in this thread.
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Many simply feel nVidia took their powers of NDA too far, and many being consumers, the exact consumers that buy (or are a target market) nVidia products.

Personally I don't see nVidia wanting to act like Intel at all, I see them making certain they don't end up like Intel if, or when (big if) AMD should ever pop a surprise with we're back in the game with our new graphics card X - or for that matter nVidia could be hoping to control their world more in consideration of what's coming from/with Intel.

If this trend continues or spreads it means to change the review world to be more like JayZ or Linus Tech Tips where its mostly about reading the release flyer provided by the manufacturer in a video to share just how great their products are (less about reviewing the product itself other than content provided to them and more about all ways to build with their product).
 
Stoly said:
Thanks man, but its closer to 30 years now in the hardware business, not just GPUs
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If you have such extensive experience with hardware reviews then why the F are you here? Shouldn't you be running your own site like [H]ardOCP? I guess since I'm 35, I have 35 years experience too right?
I think I'll leave my judgments and trust Kyle since I've been reading his reviews for the last 13 years......
 
1st rule of NVclub is don't talk about NVclub

Did a brief search on Nvidia NDA yesterday and it showed about a half dozen sites(Glad DSOG was one of 'em) reporting on this. I feel it's a fair guess that at least some of the ones not showing by now have probably signed.

Good news for those hoping for alternatives, I read somewhere a couple of days ago that Samsung is thinking of throwing their hat into the GPU ring. It might take a few more years but at some point there could be more than a two party system here again.

Saddest part of all this is that each time they flex their muscles and tweak this stuff a little more someone else is watching and waiting to copy the model. Sure it's nothing new but each time they're testing the boundaries to see what they can get away with.
 
ir0nw0lf said:
Not sure if it has been mentioned in here this morning but TPU (rolled over) and signed the NDA... A bit disappointed with them over that. I'll still frequent the site though.

https://www.techpowerup.com/245507/revised-nvidia-reviewers-nda-raises-eyebrows-our-thoughts
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"Public perception of NVIDIA has already taken a beating in the wake of the GPP controversy, and it's the duty of press to point out similar misadventures by the company, but maybe not based on misinterpretations of internal documents. We feel that Heise is overreacting and possibly looking to become a martyr, by just following the trend of bashing NVIDIA." - LOL. "Bashing NVIDIA."
 
Did you notice this from TPU?

"TechPowerUp did receive this NDA around the 20th, and promptly signed it, because we aren't reading too much into the controversial lines pointed out by Heise."

Hmm, why would you not take you time and give it some thought?
 
Amazing. they must very much believe they're in a position where they can take the heat regardless and press past this?

I'm also thinking that they must have had a collective "Doh!" moment when they realized they should have put out this NDA before they started on GPP. oops.
 
So.. maybe I'm connecting dots that shouldn't be connected, but it seems really fishy that this NDA comes out just a couple months before the launch of their next big line of cards..

NVIDIA’s new NDA basically says that any confidential information provided to the party must be used ‘solely for the benefit of NVIDIA‘. This could be understood in many ways, but for a journalist sharing confidential information does not always mean reporting in favor of the new product, sometimes it is the opposite. So does criticism break new NDA? Heise.de is worried this could prevent journalists from writing whatever they want.

Really makes me wonder if this isn't pre-emptive CYA for what will turn out to be an underwhelming card launch.
 
SomeoneElse said:
If you have such extensive experience with hardware reviews then why the F are you here? Shouldn't you be running your own site like [H]ardOCP? I guess since I'm 35, I have 35 years experience too right?
I think I'll leave my judgments and trust Kyle since I've been reading his reviews for the last 13 years......
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Didn't see stoly note they are in the review sector - I've been deep within the industry (hardware just as stoly) for 31+ years, seen lots of NDA's etc... Our (hardware/software companies/engineers) NDA's can be pretty rough as a result, however Kyle (and all review sites), by signing such an NDA restricts them from forming their own opinions, and/or even detailing out quality, perceptions on product use and/or direction, etc..
 
Inacurate said:
For those who may be confused or unsure of the implications of signing such a loose and vaguely worded NDA, the bold and underlined above are those implications. This NDA is not 'just about' product reviews, but includes other practices and decisions the company may hint at taking, or have taken.

NDA's are used for all sorts of purposes, usually to protect trade secrets and IP, sometimes too sensitive to even file a patent for.
In this case of Nvidia asking JOURNALISTS to sign this specific NDA, which covers the entirety of Nvidia as a company and not specific products or services, the implications are that ANYTHING Nvidia classifies as confidential information (CI), cannot be discussed at all, unless there's already a verified public release of said information.

To give an example, any person or entity who signs this NDA, would have been barred from discussing GPP, as it would have been marked as CI.
At least until it became public knowledge, which may or may not have happened, because divulging the existence of GPP, would have been against the terms of the NDA, and potentially bring financial liability down on the person or entity.

What I see happening, as devil's advocate, is this is a soft ball.
Any signees, will receive preferential treatment, giving them a warm and fuzzy feeling of how good this is for their interests.

Then will come the fast ball, a secondary NDA for journalists or wind of a GPP v2 agreement for vendors, that would be marked as CI.
Now that they're (journalists) under the first NDA, they're not even allowed to discuss the existence of any follow-up agreements of that nature they may hear from vendors.
They're already embedded with Nvidia, they're receiving good benefits and want to continue, plus according to the first NDA even if they don't want to continue, they wouldn't be able to discuss new agreements without breaking the first NDA.

This is not just about product reviews.
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Good points! I can most definitely see GPP v2 coming down the pike, hidden by the first NDA. I wonder if something similar has been sent to the vendors as well (not just the Journalists)??
 
What if I CALL myself a journalist an go to Nvidia just to score some sweet new cards for free by signing this NDA? I never ever intended to actually PUBLISH anything about them but I just wanted free product. I wonder how difficult that would be to do? If we could start a practice of that... that would be awesome. "Hi Nvidia I'm a independent writer for hardware sites like, xxx, xxxx, xxxxx, xxxxx, xxxxx, xxxxx." As such I would be helped in my abiltiy to deliver solid news by solidifying my relationship with you. Can you send me an NDA and any future review cards for the next 10 years please?

;)
 
I love this excerpt from TPU's rebuttal:

Whenever we've come across bad products from NVIDIA, such as the GeForce GTX 480, or bad implementations of NVIDIA cards by its AIC partners, we've never hesitated to bring them to the attention of our readers, and will never stop doing so. One could easily argue that the drama after the GTX 480 launch was for the benefit of NVIDIA, because it pushed them in the right direction, to improve their product, which has led to their market dominance today.
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"Even our criticism is beneficial to Nvidia because it will give them the feedback they need to improve their product. *groveling* Please don't stop sampling us."
 
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SPARTAN VI said:
I love this excerpt from TPU's rebuttal:



"Even our criticism is beneficial to Nvidia because it will give them the feedback they need to improve their product. *groveling* Please don't stop sampling us."
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Actually that was an accurate statement. If NVIDIA releases shit. And the reviewers call them for it. It is a driving force to do better. If they were never called on releasing shit (hi intel) then they would just keep doing minor iterations.
 
Inacurate said:
This is not just about product reviews.
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I would suggest this NDA has NOTHING to do with product reviews.

Grimlaking said:
Actually that was an accurate statement. If NVIDIA releases shit. And the reviewers call them for it. It is a driving force to do better. If they were never called on releasing shit (hi intel) then they would just keep doing minor iterations.
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I would suggest this NDA has NOTHING to do with product reviews.
 
ir0nw0lf said:
Not sure if it has been mentioned in here this morning but TPU (rolled over) and signed the NDA... A bit disappointed with them over that. I'll still frequent the site though.

https://www.techpowerup.com/245507/revised-nvidia-reviewers-nda-raises-eyebrows-our-thoughts
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How, less than smart can they be, I was just reading it a bit, this basically is open ended as legal document can be... we shall sue you anytime its what it says, and lets be honest, for anything they see fit ( nvidia just needs a good lawyer) .. shit TPU should break it right now... I am not a laywer but to me that is a fucking liability granade with the pin pulled. Any real lawyers here would agree?
 
JFC, I am now reminded again (sadly) why I don't like to post over there, just got asked if I was an idiot over all this (not by the site admins/owners BTW). All I said was that I was saddened/disappointed that the site signed the NDA. The fact they promptly did that meant there was little/no deep thinking on whether or not it was fishy, I would guess. Never called the site idiots or anything LOL. Guess they don't take kindly to people disagreeing with their (Borg) collective thinking or something. :meh:
 
nEo717 said:
, by signing such an NDA restricts them from forming their own opinions, and/or even detailing out quality, perceptions on product use and/or direction, etc..
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How specifically does the NDA prevent or discourage any of that? I'm genuinely curious how you came to the conclusion that it "restricts them from forming their own opinions".
 
nEo717 said:
Didn't see stoly note they are in the review sector - I've been deep within the industry (hardware just as stoly) for 31+ years, seen lots of NDA's etc... Our (hardware/software companies/engineers) NDA's can be pretty rough as a result, however Kyle (and all review sites), by signing such an NDA restricts them from forming their own opinions, and/or even detailing out quality, perceptions on product use and/or direction, etc..
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He didn't, that was the whole point.....it was sarcasm aimed at his comments basically challenging Kyle's view on the NDA....sorry i should have used the " /s " after my statement about it, but I thought it was implied pretty clearly.
 
DPI said:
How specifically does the NDA prevent or discourage any of that? I'm genuinely curious how you came to the conclusion that it "restricts them from forming their own opinions".
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How can you form opinions when somebody else decides what you speak about, .. what , your articles would turn into poetry and suppositions or something.. .. never mind what you are saying, that document is poison just on the basis of how much it can make you liable for.
So there is a problem with yields with volta, Nvidia discloses this to you in a simple release saying its a trade secret all worded nicely..
Now you are gagged, at least until the rumor comes fron elsewhere, in a solid manner, could be months, could be never... But not only you are gagged, you are liable, and the liability remains after, even if you break it. .. its remains becuase you got the info already.. it might not for new stuff after you break it, but for stuff/info you get during you being under this document it remains...
If you signed this shit, break it now.
 
ir0nw0lf said:
Guru3D also signed the NDA, here is their article/explanation:

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/new_nvidia_press_embargo_stirs_things_up.html

Sounds like quite a few sites signed the NDA and are finally posting up their articles to explain/justify their signing. I am sure there are more to come in the next few days. I'm just digging around through forums on sites I tend to check out.
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Oh Jesus, I am a lay person and that NDA reads like a poison pill... Shit Jesus sign in 2 days.. that alone is bullshit. Wow!
 
Uvaman2 said:
Oh Jesus, I am a lay person and that NDA reads like a poison pill... Shit Jesus sign in 2 days.. that alone is bullshit. Wow!
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That's very apparent. You don't understand the true purpose of these NDAs then.

NDAs exist so that the company providing the product is protected should something unfavorable happen due to the release of the Confidential Information they are providing. Should they give out unreleased tech (as they always do), and someone leaks info, and that leak affects the stock price, the company is protected from accusations of trying to manipulate the market. It also lets them control that information release to a specific date, again, so as to prevent market manipulations.

Once you get into actually doing business with bleeding-edge technology in any industry, such NDAs are common and expected. The kicker here is that English words and legal words do not always have the same meanings as well, so you cannot just take the words in the NDA at face value unless you are reading it in "legalese". When you do, you'd realize that NDAs don't really do much at all.
 
DPI said:
That's very apparent. You don't understand the true purpose of these NDAs then.

NDAs exist so that the company providing the product is protected should something unfavorable happen due to the release of the Confidential Information they are providing. Should they give out unreleased tech (as they always do), and someone leaks info, and that leak affects the stock price, the company is protected from accusations of trying to manipulate the market. It also lets them control that information release to a specific date, again, so as to prevent market manipulations.

Once you get into actually doing business with bleeding-edge technology in any industry, such NDAs are common and expected. The kicker here is that English words and legal words do not always have the same meanings as well, so you cannot just take the words in the NDA at face value unless you are reading it in "legalese". When you do, you'd realize that NDAs don't really do much at all.
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Yes, and i am sure all these tech websites have the army of laywers needed to fend of the massive years long liability you just signed and Nvidia can enforce with their real actual army of lawyers. I understand what you say, but doesn't change my understanding that you are just giving nvidia a knife to your neck.
 
DPI said:
Once you get into actually doing business with bleeding-edge technology in any industry, such NDAs are common and expected. The kicker here is that English words and legal words do not always have the same meanings as well, so you cannot just take the words in the NDA at face value unless you are reading it in "legalese". When you do, you'd realize that NDAs don't really do much at all.
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Yes, NDA are commonplace, if you work with that company in a business capacity. Information embargoes on specific products are commonplace NDAs when it comes to tech reviewers This NDA is far reaching, open ended, and is being applied to "journalists." Quite frankly any company or site that signs this is not concerned with journalism in any respect. They are video card reviewers. And I am fine with that. Just keep that in mind when you are reading about anything other than objective performance results of an NVIDIA card.

Now I wonder how many industry "analysts" this was rolled out to? Those are the guys that make the big bucks for being paid mouthpieces.
 
DPI said:
That's very apparent. You don't understand the true purpose of these NDAs then.

NDAs exist so that the company providing the product is protected should something unfavorable happen due to the release of the Confidential Information they are providing. Should they give out unreleased tech (as they always do), and someone leaks info, and that leak affects the stock price, the company is protected from accusations of trying to manipulate the market. It also lets them control that information release to a specific date, again, so as to prevent market manipulations.

Once you get into actually doing business with bleeding-edge technology in any industry, such NDAs are common and expected. The kicker here is that English words and legal words do not always have the same meanings as well, so you cannot just take the words in the NDA at face value unless you are reading it in "legalese". When you do, you'd realize that NDAs don't really do much at all.
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So you think NDA's mean nothing and no harm befalls those that break them. Yeah if they were like that people would break them all the time for a breaking story. However they do in fact have teeth and they have a team of lawyers that can bankrupt the average tech site with just attorney fees. You think these sites would touch a story like GPP with this current NDA from Nvidia?
 
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As an open source developer, I loathe NDAs (and don't sign them). Recently I developed some software around a "closed" product. They changed their previously exposed APIs and tried to force every developer to sign an NDA to get API access. I refused because you can't expose their API under NDA, and guess what open source is/does? Later on, they exposed their closed API in some open source they developed (grin), so I was back in business. What I'm saying is that companies in general don't realize the doors they are closing.... all out of fear. I wouldn't want to work for a company that lives in fear all the time. Nvidia is very afraid right now. This next year or two could be very interesting.
 
cjcox said:
As an open source developer, I loathe NDAs (and don't sign them). Recently I developed some software around a "closed" product. They changed their previously exposed APIs and tried to force every developer to sign an NDA to get API access. I refused because you can't expose their API under NDA, and guess what open source is/does? Later on, they exposed their closed API in some open source they developed (grin), so I was back in business. What I'm saying is that companies in general don't realize the doors they are closing.... all out of fear. I wouldn't want to work for a company that lives in fear all the time. Nvidia is very afraid right now. This next year or two could be very interesting.
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Thats the thing.. wtf is nvidia afraid of.. titan v is a fucking monster.. i mean i guess the cut down versions are shit or something... They have become a successful company on merit and hardwork, i still don't get them... Oh well.
 
N4CR said:
Clause 3 bud.

Shall only use confidential information solely for the benefit of nvidia corporation
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That's legalese, bud. Or do you believe that line literally means that only positive things can be said about Nvidia?

Context matters, and just cutting out that line standalone ignores the explanation of it that follows immediately after. Nowhere does it state "write positive stuff about our product or else". It just states you're not suppose to abuse the given confidential info before they allow it.
 
I think the biggest fear is Ampere specs. will be so close to Pascal that reviewers will give it a bad image. They just want to put out card like how Intel puts out chips with marginal gains and still have them sell.
 
Uvaman2 said:
Thats the thing.. wtf is nvidia afraid of.. titan v is a fucking monster.. i mean i guess the cut down versions are shit or something... They have become a successful company on merit and hardwork, i still don't get them... Oh well.
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Losing market shares, plain an simple. If word gets out early that the new product is bad it will significantly hurt sales and they lose truck loads of money. That's what they fear.
As do all other companies that serve NDAs. NDAs in the gaming industry operate the same way. They let people test their beta's and serve NDAs because its not a completed product and they don't want people out there bashing the unfinished product. Face it 90% of the community who just "casually" look at the initial reviews base what they want to do on that first experience.
 
Armenius said:
Computer Base and PC Games Hardware also bent the knee. The latter is extremely disappointing.

https://www.computerbase.de/2018-06/stellungnahme-nvidia-nda/
http://extreme.pcgameshardware.de/u...it-zweifelhaften-passagen-11.html#post9403217

I read German very slowly, so I have not yet gone through the entirety of PCGH's post. I can say that CB is similar to others posted so far, including the accusation of Heise stirring up controversy for clicks.
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Bent the knee? This is standard practice... There's nothing abnormal here, it's just groupthink making all kinds of people jump the gun and start screaming about nvidia censorship and whatnot.

Heise is clickbaiting because anti-nv sentiment is popular, Kyle is creaming at the opportunity to shit on nvidia and every single one of who went up in arms over just another NDA are feeding the clickbait machine.

It's absurd that you jump to the conclusion that basically all of the tech media has bent the knee instead of maybe wondering if Heise is just trying to stir up shit with another nvidia controversy. Information given to the media by nvidia is confidential, news at 11.
 
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