cannondale06
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lol, just because something is sold out does not mean its in high demand. it could simply mean there was very little supply in the first place.
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NVIDIA GK104 Coming Soon?
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SonDa5
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That is the way that I look at it. There can only be X amount of people that are willing to pay such a high price for the 7970 so to be safe I think they limit the amount of them made in order to ensure a safe sale.
Why do you keep stating this "opinion" as a fact? The HD 7970 is ~ 25% faster and cheaper than the GTX 580 3GB. The HD 7950 3GB is ~10% faster, has twice the VRAM and is similarly priced to the GTX 580 1.5GB. The HD 7970 1.5GB will be cheaper and ~10% faster than the GTX 580 1.5GB. So you precious price/perf ratio is actually in favour of the HD 7900 series. Overpriced, I agree totally but poor price/perf ratio? Not compared to GTX 580 it isn't, no matter how many times you try to make that "opinion" fact, it never will be.
Here, let me break the FACTS down for you using USD prices comparing 3GB cards at stock speeds.
HD 7970 3GB - $550
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161399
HD 7950 3GB - $460
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150590
GTX 580 3GB - $550
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130655
7970 is the same price with ~25% higher performance = better price/perf ratio
7950 is $90 cheaper with ~10% higher performance = way better price/perf ratio
When HD 7950 1.5GB is released at $400 it will be cheaper than the cheapest stock GTX 580 and will be faster. So once again it will have superior price/perf ratio. But hey, go ahead convincing yourself that HD 7900 series has poor price/perf compared to GTX 580.
I do think ALL high end single GPUs are overpriced in general, GTX 480, GTX 580, HD 7970, HD 7950 etc, ALL of them. Though at least I don't ignore or deny actual facts when I compare price/perf.
cannondale06
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yeah at 1920x1080 and with 4x AA, a 7950 is no faster than the gtx580. heck the 7950 is only 18% faster overall than the 6970 but costs 28% more. lol, how is that progress when you are getting LESS card for the money than the previous AMD generation?
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It actually IS around 10% faster on average according to [H] review.
Here is the pertinent quote from Brent's review.
"If you are gaming with a GeForce GTX 580, especially if it is overclocked or the 3GB variety, we think you should just stick with it for now. The Radeon HD 7950 may give you 10% better performance, but it isn't worth the price if you are already sporting a GTX 580. If you have a lesser GTX variant, such as the GeForce GTX 570 then the Radeon HD 7950 will be more meaningful and provide a tangible upgrade. Who would have thought we would have been here comparing AMD’s second tier card and the GTX 580 with NVIDIA’s next generation GPU still not in sight?
Now if you are making a bigger leap in your upgrade path, you would be hard pressed to buy a single GeForce GTX 580 today. The AMD Radeon HD 7950 is kicking the GTX 580’s ass and taking names."
Take from this review.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/01/30/amd_radeon_hd_7950_video_card_review/1
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I will go ahead and use the review from [H] thanks, the one where HD 7950 is 30% on average faster than HD 6970 and 10% faster than GTX 580. Afterall we are on their forum
cannondale06
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well yes in the 5 games they tested it came out to be 10% faster than the gtx580. that's mainly because in 1 of those 5 games it was 26% faster. that same game is also the one that makes the average over the 6950 look great too because it had a 56% advantage. if you test more games like other sites do then you get a much lower increase overall.I will go ahead and use the review from [H] thanks, the one where HD 7950 is 30% on average faster than HD 6970 and 10% faster than GTX 580. Afterall we are on their forum
Wow, as much as faster 26% in some cases, that 7950 is some improvement. Regardless, you are only taking one single aspect of my argument re perf/price ratio. How abouth the rest of the argument, I showed pricing for 3GB cards and the price/perf is in favour of the HD 7900 series. I also showed that when HD 7950 1.5GB is released it will be cheaper than the GTX 580 with better performance.
Those are the pertinent points, my agenda was to show that price/perf of the 7900 seires is actually better than that of the equivelant GTX 580s. Now the fact that ALL of these cards have IMHO poor price/perf compared to HD 6970 or GTX 570 is not the point
Considering they're sold out everywhere, enough people want them, which is all AMD cares about really.
Wrong. By definition that means they're in high demand.
GoldenTiger
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No, it doesn't. And, no it doesn't to point two.
They could make more but the demand isn't there at this poor pricing. Value for the money SUCKS on 79xx. Hope kepler brings it to Earth.
I agree to the poor value for money point. I couldn't care less about the economics argument though.
No, they can't make more. Believe it or not, AMD does not price its cards according to what goldentiger thinks. They're sold out everywhere, and that's all any company could ask for.
What's the / your definition of an incorrect price?
MavericK
Zero Cool
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What if there was ONE item in stock and ONE person bought it. Does that mean it's in "high demand"?
Sold out does NOT equal high demand. For all your talk about economics that seems like a no-brainer.
They are not close to sold out everywhere. Who are you trying to kidd here?
Go to newegg.com, ncix, or bestbuy and you can get them.
Compared to a real sold out product like the HP touchpad or something that is in much higher demand like a pair of Nike foamposites and the 79xx series is as easy to get as fortune cookie at a chinese restaurant.
Sold out means not being able to buy one and their are plenty of places where you can buy them.
In canada, ncix has the 7950 on sale even. I can buy them at bestbuy as well, at retail price.
This sold out thing is ridiculous and a complete exaggeration, especially for the 7950 series.
Brackle
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Saw this in another forum....not sure if serious but BOY this might make kepler launch a dud..
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-.../AAAAAAAAAAw/QXnzkXshEqc/s800/Tenerife_B3.png
I do remember seeing a Sapphire list of cards....one of them was a 2300 stream processor card.
Let the Speculation begin!!
"Disclaimer" This is not from any one of my sources
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-.../AAAAAAAAAAw/QXnzkXshEqc/s800/Tenerife_B3.png
I do remember seeing a Sapphire list of cards....one of them was a 2300 stream processor card.
Let the Speculation begin!!
"Disclaimer" This is not from any one of my sources
Brackle
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But it says March 2012...
Makes me wonder if they need to release a new 2300 stream card to compete with 104GK.
Which could also mean the 104GK really is that fast...
Yeh the slide was made/presented in march? Anyway someone with inside AMD info on another forum already said more than likely the refresh later in the year, because we all jumped to the same conclusion, but that would be pretty good if it does come out in March, as I dont find the 7 series so far to be a worthy upgrade.
It says the slide was as of March 2012, and that the teraflops were calculated "as of" March 2012. Nothing about release.
Plus, Tenerife, the island, is in the wrong ocean. Tahiti and Pitcairn are both Pacific, why would they switch to the Atlantic? Goes against their naming scheme.
Edit: I guess Tenerife could be part of Sea Islands, which would make this the 8xxx card. Presumably to battle the GK110 later this year.
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SonDa5
Supreme [H]ardness
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QFTW.
Based on all the recent information leaks i believe NVIDIA is going to redeem themselves in a big way with the GK104.
The only way that NVIDIA could possibly screw up a huge chance at getting some momentum with GK104 is over pricing it.
I stand firm with my idea of pricing for the GTX 660 ti at $299.99. That is the price that is going to do the most damage to AMD's video card efforts.
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WorldExclusive
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Unless someone has shares in AMD, the consumer can careless how much money they make.
All the average consumer cares about is availability, affordability and performance. Everything else is mental masturbation.
Seems like you parsed the quote he made. You agree it's "not" a worthy upgrade?
FearTheCow
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You say the value for the money sucks, but there are plenty of people buying them at the current price point, so it cant suck that much now can it?
If a product is priced "too high" and it still sells a ton, I would say that product has a high demand. The 7970/7950 are selling like hot cakes, how is that not a high demand?
SolidSnakeUS
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I can't believe how far this thread has gone lol.
Yes, it does. This is basic microeconomics. The fact that Newegg is already gouging on some models shows that.
They get shipments weekly. Many models are out of stock and the few that are in stock have <10 units. Considering the size of the market, the churn rate is quite high. Newegg has three 7970 models in stock right now, two have single digit stocks, while there are nine models out of stock, as in, sold out. On top of that, Newegg is already posting some models, especially 7950's, above MSRP. Maybe they're in stock in Canada, I don't know, I shop in the U.S. and my comments will reflect that.
And that's why the 79xx series is out of stock in most places. The group of you complaining about the price should either make more money or acquire tastes appropriate to your income level. Until then vote with your wallet and don't buy one.
I wonder why there was never a valid explanation as to why the hd6970 was consistently out of stock and/or had low stock consistently during the past year. Certainly it wasn't because of supply and demand... http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/ And when was the last time a ~350mm^2 GPU sold on a reference video card for msrp $550? But meh, it's off topic.
A lot of 5000 and 6000 went to BitCoin distribution.....
No clue about 7000 yet, but I would imagine its even better..
phrozenfayte
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Come on decent nVidia video card. Come on decent nVidia video card.
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MavericK
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It seems pointless to talk about demand if you don't know the actual supply numbers. As I pointed out, if there is a low supply and they sell out that does not necessarily imply high demand, as you have no idea how many would have been sold overall without more supply. For instance, if only 12 people were going to buy an item and the supply was 10, the item has sold out, but if 10 more units are supplied and only 2 of them sell, would you really say overall demand is high?
Except they were gouging from release, so that particular "evidence" does not necessarily support the demand argument.
Tell me you didn't just link to TPU for proof? Ahahahahah, techpowerup.
They use canned benchmarks within the games to acheive their results. HardOCP have stated on many occasions that canned game benchmarks prove nothing. It is the actual gameplay that counts.
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So what are you saying? That both TPU and HC's results, across a much larger range of games and settings, with actual averages across all those tests are wrong? and are basing your 10% claims from one random line in the H review, where he says "may", not even with solid averages across all games? Ok.
MavericK
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Tell me you didn't just link to TPU for proof? Ahahahahah, techpowerup.
They use canned benchmarks within the games to acheive their results. HardOCP have stated on many occasions that canned game benchmarks prove nothing. It is the actual gameplay that counts.
What does that mean, exactly? If they are using a the in-game engine to produce an in-game benchmark, how is that bad? I agree that synthetic benchmarks like 3DMark are not the best indicator of performance, but honestly the benchmark needs to be the same every time to produce effective and accurate results. Simply playing the game for a half hour or whatever and then replaying the same part (invariably in a different way) does not make a good benchmark.
I guess maybe I'm not understanding the definition of "canned" in this context.
Sorry guys, try all you want. Any site that tests games a t 1024x768 cannot be taken seriously.
It's [H] or nothing for me, and [H] said 10%, so ~10% it is. Either way, my argument was that the HD 7950 is similarly priced to the GTX 580 with twice the VRAM. So it is slightly faster, has more VRAM, and is similarly priced. So compared to the GTX 580, HD 7950 has better price/perf ratio, especially the GTX 580 3GB.
This was in response to some people here who keep insisting that the 7900 series have poor price/perf ratio compared to GTX 580.
It's [H] or nothing for me, and [H] said 10%, so ~10% it is. Either way, my argument was that the HD 7950 is similarly priced to the GTX 580 with twice the VRAM. So it is slightly faster, has more VRAM, and is similarly priced. So compared to the GTX 580, HD 7950 has better price/perf ratio, especially the GTX 580 3GB.
This was in response to some people here who keep insisting that the 7900 series have poor price/perf ratio compared to GTX 580.
Well I dont agree with your conclusions of the results, but I do agree 580 isnt exactly good on price/perf either, and the fact that 7950 is 14 months newer and performs similarly for the same money means it isnt so good in the price/perf department itself.. if you look at AMDs 2 previous gen 2nd tier products, the 6950 and 5850, they had 40-50% better price/perf.
Florin22xxl
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Hm people still dont see it?its obvious what nvidia prices will be. The same prices as AMD 7.... line(or even a bit more)the only difference will be they will offer more power. Nvidia has never had a generation price/perf. ratio,why would they star now ?especialy when kepler will be at least 20% faster than amd. Ofc
Amd will lower prices and gain price/perf. ratio once again.
Amd will lower prices and gain price/perf. ratio once again.
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