NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Super

sirmonkey1985

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Not really. NVidia is all in on RT as the future. Even AMD will be RT on the High End when the release their High end Navi. There is simply no going backwards on this.
having ray tracing is perfectly fine and i hope it gains traction when both sides are supporting it. i think what most people have a hard time with is the way nvidia implemented it in their gpu's.
 

Riccochet

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Not really. NVidia is all in on RT as the future. Even AMD will be RT on the High End when the release their High end Navi. There is simply no going backwards on this.
Then why do the 16xx series cards exist?

Nvidia may be all in, but there is still no solution from AMD and developers are most certainly not all in. Then we have the new benchmark from Crytek where RT cores aren't even needed. And the yet to be seen and tested M$ DXR.

At this point those RTX cores are pretty much useless.
 

DejaWiz

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A 1680Ti would make more sense. 2080Ti performance without the RTX for $750 and I'm a buyer.
This is my dream/desire. If a 1680Ti for around $700-750 existed, then I would promptly retire my 980Ti. As it sits now, I'm not feeding nVidia's greed so that they can try and justify slapping on a $1200+ price tag to their 2080Ti flagship because they want to push a worthless RTX tech that barely maintains 60FPS in a 22 year old game.
 

GoodBoy

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.. And the yet to be seen and tested M$ DXR.

At this point those RTX cores are pretty much useless.
That is not correct. DXR is part of DX12, that came out fall of 2018 around when the RTX cards were launched. VKray has also been out for some time, and is Vulkans' raytracing API.

RTX cores are utilized by the GPU driver to hook to DXR api calls, or VKray api calls and provide substantial speed boost vs those same functions running on non RTX cores.

That Crytek demo that does raytracing in software may or may not be using DirectX's DXR and/or Vulkans' VKray... if they didn't bring anything new to the table it's kind of pointless to reinvent the wheel. (You don't need RTX cores to raytrace, you just have to add support in your GPU drivers). I guess it does let people try a minimal raytraced effect on GPU's without DXR/VKray support in the drivers... (AMD's current stuff).
 

Eivind68

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Nvidia said this summer that a 2080Ti would never be made, and while there's no reason to totally trust a big company, they were very clear about this.
 

Snowdog

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Then why do the 16xx series cards exist?

Nvidia may be all in, but there is still no solution from AMD and developers are most certainly not all in. Then we have the new benchmark from Crytek where RT cores aren't even needed. And the yet to be seen and tested M$ DXR.

At this point those RTX cores are pretty much useless.
The 16xx card are BELOW the 2060. Even the 2060 is questionable performance level for doing RT. Below that RT isn't practical.

It doen't matter if AMD is late, and developers aren't all in yet.

RT is the future, and everyone knows it. There is no going back.

Arguing against it now, would be like arguing that after 3DFX came to market and AMD, NVidia only had only crappy 3D cards, that they should go back to making pure 2D cards because developers weren't all in yet.

After all back then there were only a handful of 3D games and everything else to was 2D.
 

Verado

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The 16xx card are BELOW the 2060. Even the 2060 is questionable performance level for doing RT. Below that RT isn't practical.

It doen't matter if AMD is late, and developers aren't all in yet.

RT is the future, and everyone knows it. There is no going back.

Arguing against it now, would be like arguing that after 3DFX came to market and AMD, NVidia only had only crappy 3D cards, that they should go back to making pure 2D cards because developers weren't all in yet.

After all back then there were only a handful of 3D games and everything else to was 2D.
Mandatory reminder that the only game my RTX card has raytraced is from the era you are talking about.
Edit: Forgot to mention that said game ran better on the hardware I owned at that time.
 

Riccochet

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The 16xx card are BELOW the 2060. Even the 2060 is questionable performance level for doing RT. Below that RT isn't practical.

It doen't matter if AMD is late, and developers aren't all in yet.

RT is the future, and everyone knows it. There is no going back.

Arguing against it now, would be like arguing that after 3DFX came to market and AMD, NVidia only had only crappy 3D cards, that they should go back to making pure 2D cards because developers weren't all in yet.

After all back then there were only a handful of 3D games and everything else to was 2D.
Current gen cards, and arguably whatever comes out for the next 3-5 years, just aren't and won't be up to snuff to drive acceptable frame rates for ray tracing. Who TF wants to play a 1080/60 when cheap high refresh rate 2K and 4K displays are becoming the norm? No one. As someone that likes high end I don't see the point in spending $1200 on a card for features I'll never use, and will become increasingly useless, at least for current gen cards.

A card that can put out 2080Ti raster performance without the RT cores makes sense. Nvidia can push RTX all they want, but until it performs on a level of current display resolutions with high frame rates it'll be nothing more than a gimmick.

When 3DFX hit the market it actually performed. AMD has already admitted they weren't putting out a RT card until it was capable of putting out a level of performance that would be acceptable to gamers.
 

Snowdog

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Current gen cards, and arguably whatever comes out for the next 3-5 years, just aren't and won't be up to snuff to drive acceptable frame rates for ray tracing. Who TF wants to play a 1080/60 when cheap high refresh rate 2K and 4K displays are becoming the norm? No one. As someone that likes high end I don't see the point in spending $1200 on a card for features I'll never use, and will become increasingly useless, at least for current gen cards.

A card that can put out 2080Ti raster performance without the RT cores makes sense. Nvidia can push RTX all they want, but until it performs on a level of current display resolutions with high frame rates it'll be nothing more than a gimmick.

When 3DFX hit the market it actually performed. AMD has already admitted they weren't putting out a RT card until it was capable of putting out a level of performance that would be acceptable to gamers.
You mean won't be up to snuff, for people who want to sit on the sidelines and cry "sour grapes". Lot of people have enjoyed RT games on their cards.

AMD is just blowing smoke because they were late to the party. What do you expect them to say? "We were caught with our pants down and won't have RT HW for 2 or 3 years."
 

Gideon

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You mean won't be up to snuff, for people who want to sit on the sidelines and cry "sour grapes". Lot of people have enjoyed RT games on their cards.

AMD is just blowing smoke because they were late to the party. What do you expect them to say? "We were caught with our pants down and won't have RT HW for 2 or 3 years."
Only one that seems to have sour grapes is you my friend. Hardly anyone has a card that has RT as they are priced way out of the mainstream price range, next year consoles will be the first chance for most of them to try it out. AMD has played it smart to wait it out as development on RT effects for games has been at a glacial pace. Will see how AMD does when the release Big Navi.
 

Snowdog

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Only one that seems to have sour grapes is you my friend. Hardly anyone has a card that has RT as they are priced way out of the mainstream price range, next year consoles will be the first chance for most of them to try it out. AMD has played it smart to wait it out as development on RT effects for games has been at a glacial pace. Will see how AMD does when the release Big Navi.
You don't seem to understand what sour grapes are.

Also as far as hardly anyone having an RT card:

There are already 3 RTX cards in the top 20 of Steams GPU Survey, vs only 1 AMD card of any type. If hardly anyone has an RT card what does that say about how many people have AMD cards?
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/


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Derangel

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Current gen cards, and arguably whatever comes out for the next 3-5 years, just aren't and won't be up to snuff to drive acceptable frame rates for ray tracing. Who TF wants to play a 1080/60 when cheap high refresh rate 2K and 4K displays are becoming the norm? No one. As someone that likes high end I don't see the point in spending $1200 on a card for features I'll never use, and will become increasingly useless, at least for current gen cards.
Good "2K" and 4K monitors might be getting cheaper, but 1080p is still what the majority of people are using for PC gaming. People don't really upgrade monitors very often. Much like TVs, they tend to wait until their current monitor dies. That said, next gen cards should be able to handle RT at 1440p just fine. The 2080 ti can (for the most part) so give the entire lineup another 30-40% raw performance jump and make whatever improvements needed to the RT cores and I wouldn't be surprised if a 3070 approaches being viable for 1440p RT, maybe even managing it with setting tweaks. Depending on what Nvidia does with its product stack, of course.
 

Riccochet

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The 2080 is really the only one capable of doing ray tracing without providing a complete crap experience. And that's pretty limited on what titles it can do it. So, I don't see your point. You think someone with a 2060 or 2070 is turning on ray tracing? 2080Ti struggles in a lot of titles. Basically, they over paid for a raster performance.
 

Snowdog

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Someone posted that in the 3xxx series thread. A 2080ti super is a very boring card... maybe 6% faster than a 2080ti.
BTW, latest incarnation of this rumor says it's fully enabled TU102 and 16 Gbps RAM. Thats a 20% or better improvement in Memory bandwidth. Which should help it flex extra muscle.
 

Gideon

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You don't seem to understand what sour grapes are.

Also as far as hardly anyone having an RT card:

There are already 3 RTX cards in the top 20 of Steams GPU Survey, vs only 1 AMD card of any type. If hardly anyone has an RT card what does that say about how many people have AMD cards?
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/


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Wow what a shock you left off the % because it doesn't support your agenda.

2060= 1.60%
2070= 1.47%
2080= .92%
2080TI= .56%
Total = 4.55% ownership

Yeah huge numbers enjoying ray tracing there and even at that only the 2080 and TI are capable of actually using it. Over a year on the market and the numbers have looked to have peaked.
 

GoodBoy

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Current gen cards, and arguably whatever comes out for the next 3-5 years, just aren't and won't be up to snuff to drive acceptable frame rates for ray tracing. Who TF wants to play a 1080/60 when cheap high refresh rate 2K and 4K displays are becoming the norm? No one.
You just described the majority of the PC gaming base. See a steam hardware survey.

As someone that likes high end I don't see the point in spending $1200 on a card for features I'll never use, and will become increasingly useless, at least for current gen cards.

A card that can put out 2080Ti raster performance without the RT cores makes sense.
I do think there would be a market for such a card for the next few years while game dev's transition over to engines with raytracing. At the same time, high-end means high-end, not middle-end. From nVidia's perspective, such a card likely doesn't make sense if it could be seen as undermining implementation of DXR features in future games. The Maxwell based Titan can probably (come close to) fullfill this demand if you are in the market.

Nvidia can push RTX all they want, but until it performs on a level of current display resolutions with high frame rates it'll be nothing more than a gimmick.
Disagree there.

When 3DFX hit the market it actually performed. AMD has already admitted they weren't putting out a RT card until it was capable of putting out a level of performance that would be acceptable to gamers.
Except that AMD is putting one out. Someone look up when Lisa Su said AMD would do raytracing...
 

GoodBoy

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Wow what a shock you left off the % because it doesn't support your agenda.

2060= 1.60%
2070= 1.47%
2080= .92%
2080TI= .56%
Total = 4.55% ownership

Yeah huge numbers enjoying ray tracing there and even at that only the 2080 and TI are capable of actually using it. Over a year on the market and the numbers have looked to have peaked.
You seemed to have missed the point of "if hardly anyone has Raytracing cards, what's that say about AMD?"

So top 20 vid cards in use, 4.55% support Raytracing, and 1.32% are AMD cards. Your original point was "hardly anyone has RTX". 4.55% could probably be argued either way, but with 90 million monthly active users, 4.55% = 4 million people. Definitely not "hardly anyone". In fact that's a pretty big win for nVidia. Pretty sure that number will just keep increasing too. Not like the majority are replacing their GPU every year.
 
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Snowdog

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Wow what a shock you left off the % because it doesn't support your agenda.

2060= 1.60%
2070= 1.47%
2080= .92%
2080TI= .56%
Total = 4.55% ownership

Yeah huge numbers enjoying ray tracing there and even at that only the 2080 and TI are capable of actually using it. Over a year on the market and the numbers have looked to have peaked.
I left off the percentages, because I was including the whole top 20 and it was a cluttered mess I wasn't going to edit. I provided a link so you could read them.

Now compare that 4.55% RTX in the top 20, Vs the lone AMD card in the top 20 at 1.60%.

RTX ownership alone is ~3X higher than general AMD ownership. :p

The reality is that many people keep cards for AGES, so it takes time to displace all the old cards. There are still 7 series cards in the top 20.

Another bit of perspective GTX
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti = 1.62%.
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 = 1.60%.

The much maligned RTX 2060 is near overtaking the much loved GTX 1080Ti.

If you believe the comments here, GTX 1080 Ti outsold RTX cards 10:1, but the reality is that RTX cards are clearly selling well enough to move up the charts.
 

Riccochet

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4.55% own RTX cards, while only 1.46% can actually use RT. Plenty of reviews of 2060's and 2070's showing they simply don't have the power to do ray tracing at any acceptable level. So those people paid $500-600 for cards that can't even do what they are marketed to do. So what good are those RT cores to those people? Wouldn't they have been better off buying a $500-600 GTX card with better raster performance?
 

5150Joker

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IMO RT won't be viable until PS 5 does it at 60 fps using hardware acceleration. If it can pull that off, we will see a lot more games supporting it. But right now RT is just as big of a fad as 3D was or even VR. Fun to look at but only possible on very expensive hardware which puts it out of reach of most gamers. While RTX cards are selling, the comparison Snowdog made between 1080 Ti and 2060 is misleading because 1080 Ti was a top of the line card where the 2060 is not and should be compared in sales to its predecessor the 1060.

My personal opinion is that RT won't take off in a meaningful way for another 3-5 years minimum if ever. Just because it's a part of DirectX and Vulkan doesn't mean it will be used.

A 2080 Ti Super if released in 2020 tells me no Ampere till late 2020 or early 2021 which is terrible news if true. Hopefully this is just nVidia blowing smoke up AMDs ass to fool them into showing their hand with big Navi.
 

Gideon

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You know it's funny they keep trying to drag AMD into it, which has no relevance in a RT conversation at this time. For a year + into a launch of a card those are pretty weak numbers especially to a actual hit like the Pascal cards were. If we actually see a super 2080Ti then it would only be out of desperation by Nvidia and the next gen is in trouble.
 

Nightfire

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You seemed to have missed the point of "if hardly anyone has Raytracing cards, what's that say about AMD?"

So top 20 vid cards in use, 4.55% support Raytracing, and 1.32% are AMD cards. Your original point was "hardly anyone has RTX". 4.55% could probably be argued either way, but with 90 million monthly active users, 4.55% = 4 million people. Definitely not "hardly anyone". In fact that's a pretty big win for nVidia. Pretty sure that number will just keep increasing too. Not like the majority are replacing their GPU every year.
Wouldn't the point be RTX vs non-RTX? Nvidia has always took AMD to the cleaners on Steam sales. If the 2070, 2080, etc didnt have RTX, the sales would be just as bad for AMD, especially if nvidia sold them at non-RTX prices.
 

Snowdog

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If we actually see a super 2080Ti then it would only be out of desperation by Nvidia and the next gen is in trouble.
It could be a sign that Big Navi is imminent. Or releasing 2080Ti Super may be a sign that Ampere is going to be a bigger perf jump than I expected.

I figured they would not release 2080Ti Super, because that would be another performance hump that Ampere has to clear.

Now the latest rumor is 2080TiS is fully enabled TU 102 with 16 GBit/s RAM. If they squeeze 15% perf bump out of it, then they can't release 3080Ti Ampere with only 25% over regular 2080Ti as it will only be 10% over 2080TiS.
 

Marees

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Lakados

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The 2080TI super will be pretty dull, they are doing this because the new slightly faster memory is cheaper than the stuff they are using currently so upgrading the cards cuts their costs and any clock speed increases should be a natural result of 2 years of fine tuning the manufacturing process. as the delay for the Ampere delay is concerned they are pushing it back so they can meet demand for their higher end Tesla's and AI components, supposedly the speed increases for those work loads is significant enough that everybody and their dog is buying them as fast as they can and they will have a hard time just meeting that demand in a timely fassion.
 
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Despite the presumably LSD-fueled delusions on [H], the oft-repeated statement that Nvidia builds their business around enterprises uses and then tosses a few leftover scraps to gamers is demonstrably false. According to their own registered financial statements, the majority of their revenues come from gaming. Nvidia isn't going to snub the market that pays for everything else. Nvidia isn't "pushing back" anything in gaming because they're prioritizing whatever niche market the idiot internet poster du jour happens to assert in his latest post.

BTW, this lie is usually pushed by AMD fanboys. For comparison, AMD's gaming division has historically operated for a net loss and 100% of the company profits came from enterprise. So which company do you guys think would prioritize gaming over enterprise?
 

zamardii12

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Someone posted that in the 3xxx series thread. A 2080ti super is a very boring card... maybe 6% faster than a 2080ti.

If that happens it makes you wonder if nVidia misstepped with Ampere or if it’s an aggressive design.

Personally I’d be happy with RT add in cards. My 2080ti has more than enough rasterized performance.
I don't understand the point of even releasing it. Nvidia should just use the time and money and improve Ampere. 2019 was absolutely flooded with cards and we don't need a 2080ti Super.
 

Lakados

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Despite the presumably LSD-fueled delusions on [H], the oft-repeated statement that Nvidia builds their business around enterprises uses and then tosses a few leftover scraps to gamers is demonstrably false. According to their own registered financial statements, the majority of their revenues come from gaming. Nvidia isn't going to snub the market that pays for everything else. Nvidia isn't "pushing back" anything in gaming because they're prioritizing whatever niche market the idiot internet poster du jour happens to assert in his latest post.

BTW, this lie is usually pushed by AMD fanboys. For comparison, AMD's gaming division has historically operated for a net loss and 100% of the company profits came from enterprise. So which company do you guys think would prioritize gaming over enterprise?
In 2017 it was a 50/50 split, since then the enterprise side of things has gained ground but it is by no means an overwhelming majority.
 

mls1995

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A 2080TI super release won't lead me to sell the 2080 super I picked up 2 months ago. A 3080TI would though.
 
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In 2017 it was a 50/50 split, since then the enterprise side of things has gained ground but it is by no means an overwhelming majority.
In 2017, 58% of Nvidia's revenue came from gaming.

Please stop making things up. It isn't a good look for you.
 

Lakados

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In 2017, 58% of Nvidia's revenue came from gaming.

Please stop making things up. It isn't a good look for you.
53% actually..
Datacenter 21.1%
Professional Visualization 10.6%
Auto 7.2%
OEM and IP licensing 8.1%

So sure 50/50 split was a little off, so 53/47 happier now?

But for the record I was agreeing with you their gaming market is far too large for them to push back, hold off, or otherwise slow their releases for any reason other than pre agreed contractual sales or lidigimate technical/logistical issues. They have shown on more than one occasion that they will gladly embarass their competition with a release that they were not prepared to counter.
 

Grimlaking

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It's WCCF Tech guys... we are as likely to have a blue sun tomorrow as them to get a rumor bang on.
 
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