NVIDIA Geforce GTX 590 Video Card Blows Up on Video - Forceware Drivers Blamed

happymedium said:
Did you actually read those BS links?
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Well, if nVidia sent them samples, they must be very important for their countries and for nVidia. Otherwise nVidia would had sent us a GTX 590 sample, :D

CMD said:
The second time their drivers killed cards? LOL wow! Now tell us how long will the RMA be when they sell out of the chips for these beasts.
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That isn't a bug, it is a feature! Ala Microsoft.

But in reality, the GTX 590 is supposed to be an enthusiast SKU, which means that only enthusiast will buy it and extract every once of performance (Overclocking, overvolting, etc). So if 6 GTX 590 died on the hands of experts, what may happen to the consumers in general? The GTX 590 seems to be already pushed to the limits, for me, it isn't an enthusiast part as you can't even overclock the card without worries. It barely matches the stock HD 6990 which also has more overclocking headroom and better performance. I think that the 40nm process affected both GPU vendors, but thanks to AMD's small die strategy, it paid well.
 
CrayMan said:
This is serious. I can just imagine plenty of novice mums and dads installing those drivers without second thought.
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If they are novice mums and dads, then they probably won't be overclocking/overvolting the cards either.
 
Forceman said:
If they are novice mums and dads, then they probably won't be overclocking/overvolting the cards either.
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If they are 'novice mums and dads' they won't be buying $700 video cards. Rather they'll be buying low end $100 and under video cards. In reality that is where the mainstream market is. For Nvidia, in this round, I think the 'halo' effect they were hoping to get from the 590 will be tarnished due to low performance out of the box and the danger of burnout when overclocked.
 
Is just me or has the attitude towards "ocing" really changed? Before it was accepted you took the increased risk as well as performance, with no guarantee of success.

Now you have people actually RMAing products as defective that do not "oc" to a level they feel it should or from bricking their hardware through ocing.
 
CrayMan said:
This is serious. I can just imagine plenty of novice mums and dads installing those drivers without second thought.
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Are you serious? Novice moms and dads buying a $700 GPU then overvolt/overclocking it?

Are you insane? Did you think before you typed?
 
limitedaccess said:
Is just me or has the attitude towards "ocing" really changed? Before it was accepted you took the increased risk as well as performance, with no guarantee of success.

Now you have people actually RMAing products as defective that do not "oc" to a level they feel it should or from bricking their hardware through ocing.
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It's the age of entitlement, and it's a sad, sad age indeed.
 
TweakTown did some investigation into this. They say it's directly related to overvolting the cards and is not a driver issue. Programs are allowing you to OV past what the card is physically capable of handling.

Source
 
bigdogchris said:
TweakTown did some investigation into this. They say it's directly related to overvolting the cards and is not a driver issue. Programs are allowing you to OV past what the card is physically capable of handling.

Source
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b.d.c. I'm too lazy to read that right now and a bit burnt out to be honest from researching what I can about this issue, but the driver issue is specifically blowing the card up. It's already known the card can't handle overvolting beyond a certain range. The asus review kit stated the following points

1. Use the newer driver
2. You can overvolt between ranges x and y
a) if you are going to overvolt you have to change your fan profile
b) in the event you will exceed voltage y you need to do 2 things to keep the card from eventually dying
b1) disable the power limiter feature
b2) get a completely new cooler for the card that can handle the extra heat generated from the voltage.

The fact that the card can't handle the heat from the voltage is nothing anyone including nvidia, asus and other partners are hiding. The driver issue is supposedly the blowing up as seen in the video specifically.

So without reading and with the information I just provided you I ask you one simple question. Have they been able to get the card to blow up with the supposed good driver.?
 
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CrayMan said:
This is serious. I can just imagine plenty of novice mums and dads installing those drivers without second thought.
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He was over clocking the hell out of the card. Novices who don't screw with their stuff are absolutely fine.
 
Haha.. Sweclockers sacrificed another card just to verify the issue.

Now that's Hard.
 
Looks like the 590 has been pulled off Newegg and is no longer for sale. Interesting...
 
wow ive had that happen to me in the past but with voltage mods ln2 on the card and at extreme limits where i kinda expected that to happen, but not on a stock retail card playing crysis with a minus oc :(
 
This is why 'software' voltage and thermal control on cards these days really scares the hell out of me. There is too much that can go wrong... I mean what's to happen if you're system is unstable, locks up while you're away running a benchmark or game or whatever, and because of the lockup the driver can't adjust fan speed, voltage, or throttle the GPU?

These kinds of adjustments should be statically controlled by hardware on the card, or at the very worst at the BIOS level.

Bottom line, when you can kill the card that easily with flaky drivers something is way wrong.
 
happymedium said:
Did you actually read those BS links?
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Are you seriously trying to discredit w1zzard from TechPowerup? and when did Tbreak become BS reviewers? Why are you so seriously defending Nvidia? Are you a shareholder or part of their focus team or something? You probably won't even buy this card so why do you care so much?

You're doing the same thing you did at Atech that got you banned...
 
Vittra said:
It's the age of entitlement, and it's a sad, sad age indeed.
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I guess that must be it, because everyone seems to be ignoring the question of why the hardware manufacturer should be responsible for issues when the user runs outside of factory settings?

Has the GTX 590 proven to be defective when running stock? it seems like none of the articles even hint at that as the case. It would only be fair and honest to criticize the card for its OCing features/capabilities, nothing more.

I don't see why any user should be guaranteed to even be able to OC by 1mhz. And this is not specific to this issue. You have people actually RMAing 6950s that don't unlock, X3s that don't unlock, and Sandybridge's that don't OC to 5ghz as defective hardware... :rolleyes:
 
You don't see that a lot (the dirty RMA cheating). Since this site is indeed [H]ardware OverClocking Potential, knowing how far we can push our HW, and how far we cannot, is almost integral to at least some of us. Yes, there are always freeloaders, however, if a company is going to design a 700usd GPU, then considering the target market (the same one that actually has a group of crazy users putting water in their computers in the name of cooling, and the same one with an ever smaller group of crazy suckers who will put massive blocks of metal and LN2 in the name of pushing chip architectures to the max), and not even target market... how many people in the world, are likely to buy a 700usd GPU? Just a cursorary glance a Best Buys tells me enough. Not that many. Even a glance at NPD stats so rarely published already tells me enough. So nVidia and AMD KNOW who their target market is with these cards. Screw that, who even reads decent video card reviews before buying?

To say nVidia never guarenteed overclocking is correct. However, they knew their target market would include overclock, so much that most decent reviews will include a short outtake on overclocking (hence the issue). Yes, they don't "entitle" people to overclocking. However, those same people will likely not "entitle" nVidia with their money in that case. I know I will NOT be buying twin GTX590 cards. Not even one (which would of let me use a really nice PCIe sound card to replace my failing uDAC2). I'm not going to give money to a GPU that has failed in at least 8 overclocking tests done by different reviewers (admittedly, one of the 8 deaths was rather unusual).
 
This is from the tbreak review that posted about OCing -

On idle the GTX 590 hovered around 40°C, while under full load it went up to 82°C. I managed to overclock the Zotac GTX 590 up to 684Mhz on Core clock, up from 607Mhz stock, while memory speeds remained the same. At these speeds, the GTX 590 reported temperatures of 85°C.

That’s a good amount of scaling with a 77MHz overclock. Now given that the GTX 590 has the ability for voltage tweaking, I got really brave and decided to over-voltage the card as well as the speeds and see how far I can go. Using MSI Afterburner I increased the voltage by 75mV and bumping up the Core speeds to 753Mhz which resulted in an incredible score of 9816 on 3DMark 11 (p). Hoping to hit the 10k mark, I decided to bump the voltage to 125mV with Core speeds of 804Mhz. As 3DMark 11 was coming to a close, the whole system shutdown and I could see smoke coming out of the power cable connectors.
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So what is the warning to be had here exactly? If you overvolt and OC you can cause problems. Well if you did not know that about OCing without this warning, I would say that is a lack of user knowledge.

However you will notice how many people are putting a spin on things, including the title of this thread, to suggest that that the driver by itself is causing problems. This is no way similar to the previous driver issue that would cause the fan to stop working. Would it be fair to blame AMD for the the 6950->6970 bios flash overvolting the vram causing premature failure? No that would not be a fair accusation at all.

Like I said, it is completely fair to be critical of the GTX 590s OCing capability/features, which is what the issue is. The driver is not offering protection against OCing. This is should not be anywhere near the same situation as the Detonator 196 issue or the "Bump gate" issue, which people are suggesting.
 
That's why we have reviewers to at least know the safe area of OC. The title was made when much less info was known, and word just got out reviewers were supposed to use a newer driver set than the supplied CD driver set. Why they used the CD driver set? Maybe the "newer" ones were not avalible to them at the time of the review, lol.

At any rate, it cannot OC well (relative to it's direct competitor, which hasn't heard of 8 reviewers killing it on launch day), so it won't be getting any of my money. Heck, I'm the guy who bought two GTX570 cards even though I knew they couldn't OC as well as their GTX580 counterparts. Perhaps you do have a point, though. Normally, the GPU becomes unstable before the power circuitry dies, so we have become used to OCing the balls off of stuff. Now, the power circuitry was designed with only stock clocks in mind, so we're seeing something we haven't seen in a while. However, as it is, nVidia knew their market (the ones likely to buy a 700usd GPU), and they have lost at least two sales from me. I don't know about others, however, I'm rather sure the lack of a capable enough board design to handle the GPU being pushed to it's limits has already deterred others, too. Sure, nVidia saved an inch vs the HD6990. Not worth that inch, IMO.
 
happymedium said:
Did you actually read those BS links?
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Cool Vibrations said:
Are you seriously trying to discredit w1zzard from TechPowerup? and when did Tbreak become BS reviewers? Why are you so seriously defending Nvidia? Are you a shareholder or part of their focus team or something? You probably won't even buy this card so why do you care so much?

You're doing the same thing you did at Atech that got you banned...
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This is Happy's thing. As you already know what happened at Atech, this should be no news to you.

Happy, GET REAL. TechPowerup is a legit site. Calling them BS reviewers is crazy. If you would like, I can pull up times in the past that you referenced them in your arguments. Do you really want to call them BS reviewers after you specifically used their reviews for shilling purposes? You constantly promote their products and are always by their side, thick and thin. Anything nVidia does is golden and genius, ATI constantly "disappoints" you. Take the sunglasses off and lay off the Kool-Aid. Seeing things in a non-biased, critical manner is much healthier. As it stands, if anything is BS it's your posts. TPU is solid.
 
Blue Falcon said:
This is why 'software' voltage and thermal control on cards these days really scares the hell out of me. There is too much that can go wrong... I mean what's to happen if you're system is unstable, locks up while you're away running a benchmark or game or whatever, and because of the lockup the driver can't adjust fan speed, voltage, or throttle the GPU?

These kinds of adjustments should be statically controlled by hardware on the card, or at the very worst at the BIOS level.

Bottom line, when you can kill the card that easily with flaky drivers something is way wrong.
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Very well said. Some things should not be left to software. BTW, I love one of the reviews over at Newegg.com. It could not be more obvious it was posted by an Nvidia apologist, or even an Nvidia employee.
 
Cool Vibrations said:
Are you seriously trying to discredit w1zzard from TechPowerup? and when did Tbreak become BS reviewers? Why are you so seriously defending Nvidia? Are you a shareholder or part of their focus team or something? You probably won't even buy this card so why do you care so much?

You're doing the same thing you did at Atech that got you banned...
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I got vacationed from Anandtech for calling out a mod just like I called out W1izzard.
I'm not banned. I call it like I see it and thats the way I'll keep posting.

I explain why I called him irresponsible right here. And yes he made a mistake and I'm sure he knows it.

quote from my other post .

" Do you know the stock voltage of a 6970? They use up to 1.4v when overclocked, so I would say 1.2v is fine. Now to put the shoe on the other foot. If the 6990 was released today and this Wizzard guy pumped 1.5v in the card and blew it up within hours,I would still call him a retard, especially when the 6970 would not handle that voltage (1.5v), just as we all know a gtx580 would not handle 1.2volts. There is a reason Msi afterburner puts a cap of about 1.087 on all Nvidia cards, because they run at lower voltages at stock, and we all know this.
On any Nvidia card you must hack the bios to overvolt to 1.2v.
I'm sure if Wizzard is the genious that everyone thinks he, is HE KNEW THAT.
Are you saying he did it on purpose?,because if he did he would be called alot worse things then retard.

Dum, stupid, irresponsible, mabe retard is the wrong word, but I think you get my point."

and another quote......

".No you missed my point totally.
Have you EVER seen a 1.2v air overclock with a gtx580 without a modded bios and hopefully on water? I hope not, or someone has a extra special chip or a fried card. So why on earth would you try it with a dual gtx580 card?

Have you ever seen a 6970 at 1.55 volts, I hope not, because they also have a fried card or a card that I would never buy used off them.

It's not about the % of the increase, its why if a gtx580 can't do it how would you expect a dual gtx580 to do it?
Same goes for the 6990.

See what I'm getting at? "


and another good point.....

"You misread my post. I said modded bios, and a modded bios would allow for 1.2volts, and should always be done under water..

But, you are getting away from the real question. If you are a knowledgable reviewer, why would you even try to use more the the allowed voltage of a gtx580 in a gtx590.

You can come up with 3 answers
1. irresponsible
2. lack of knowledge
3. on purpose

You pick one.

Would you pump 1.6volts into your brand new 2600k cpu because you could? "

"
 
happymedium said:
You can come up with 3 answers
1. irresponsible
2. lack of knowledge
3. on purpose

You pick one.

Would you pump 1.6volts into your brand new 2600k cpu because you could?
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I'd say number 1 and 2. He didn't read the short instructions which explained to use the 270 drivers, then pumped 1.2 V into it. Neither one would have individually killed the card, both together had fatal results.

LEVESQUE said:
Buy 6990. Noisy. Buy a waterblock, check. Raise voltage, OC it like crazy. WIN.

Buy 590. Nicer, cuter, quieter, cost MORE. Buy a waterblock. Try to raise voltage a little tiny winy bit, bad/cheap VRMs, black smoke coming out, Nvidia says it's your fault. FAIL.
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  • The 590 and 6990 cost the same.
  • The 590's voltage regulators are not the main problem.
  • It is the reviewer and end user's fault to not use the most recent drivers then modify the BIOS to up the voltage significantly without reading the directions.
  • nVIDIA hasn't laid blame on anyone except the drivers.
  • Your fanboy is showing.
 
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Buy 6990. Noisy. Buy a waterblock, check. Raise voltage, OC it like crazy. WIN.

Buy 590. Nicer, cuter, quieter, cost MORE. Buy a waterblock. Try to raise voltage a little tiny winy bit, bad/cheap VRMs, black smoke coming out, Nvidia says it's your fault. FAIL.

BETA Nvidia drivers... people say it's normal. BETA drivers will improve much. So can't judge the 590 potential because of those beta drivers.

BUT! BETA AMD drivers for 6990, rock-stable, smooth sailing on day 1, but people are saying that comparisons and benchmarks with BETA drivers for the 6990 are fair and honest..

Sigh.

BETA drivers are BETA drivers.
 
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Don't worry they slap nice warranties and always give something extra with the cards. Gigabyte give the mouse normally but you will get a fire extinguisher or a smoke alarm free with it. So its fine nothing to worry about. Just check the benchmarks. After it blew up it still manage to compete neck on neck with the 6990.
 
ahhh the smell of fail in the morning.....lol driver issues that cook cards twice from the same company?
 
So a guy pumps too much voltage into a card, it breaks, and the fanbois go wild with "LOL nVidia!"

This place is really going downhill....I'd expect more intelligence from the [H]...
 
Appa said:
So a guy pumps too much voltage into a card, it breaks, and the fanbois go wild with "LOL nVidia!"

This place is really going downhill....I'd expect more intelligence from the [H]...
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If you post a legitimate thread, you most likely get one answer or maybe 2 which half the time are useless. But when you post something like this you get pages of useless flaming, trolling and fanboism. Succes! :rolleyes:
 
Appa said:
So a guy pumps too much voltage into a card, it breaks, and the fanbois go wild with "LOL nVidia!"

This place is really going downhill....I'd expect more intelligence from the [H]...
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I willing to bet that Nvidia will correct the driver to detect if the proper conditions have been meet before one is allowed to proceede with said overclock.......
 
Appa said:
So a guy pumps too much voltage into a card, it breaks, and the fanbois go wild with "LOL nVidia!"

This place is really going downhill....I'd expect more intelligence from the [H]...
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I like both companies. This is just fail in general. Release a card and even with reviewers it can just fry. A card that can barely overclock or when it does is very much in danger of frying. The reviewers do their normal thing on pushing the cards to where they are stable, but it doesn't mean that the hardware and drivers together are considered peachy. Also, this is not the first time this has happened. A driver a bit ago also started frying cards, and not just this one.
 
Best conclusion ever in a review.

btajsjbc874d.jpg
 
Appa said:
So a guy pumps too much voltage into a card, it breaks, and the fanbois go wild with "LOL nVidia!"
.
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Dude. Read around bit. Some reviewers 590s blew out in black smoke WITHOUT even trying to OC it, on STOCK voltage! A reviewer got 3 590 in the lab producing black smoke on stock voltage. STOCK VOLTAGE.

I'm sorry, but that's pretty EPIC FAIL.
 
SWE reviewers wrote and published whole GTX 590 review, without revealing on what voltage they destroyed the card.

They released the video showing how they busted ASUS GTX 590.

Later they added this in the video description:

"Benchmark running was 3DMark 11. Settings used during card failure:
GPU Clock @ 772 MHz
GPU VCore @ 1,025 V"

Sure, I believe them.
 
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damn it nV...i had more faith in you guys.

maybe when my 570 gets dated ATI will be in its 9800 days again, seems like they're headed there right now :cool:
 
Cool Vibrations said:
Are you seriously trying to discredit w1zzard from TechPowerup? and when did Tbreak become BS reviewers? Why are you so seriously defending Nvidia? Are you a shareholder or part of their focus team or something? You probably won't even buy this card so why do you care so much?

You're doing the same thing you did at Atech that got you banned...
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TechPowerUp ROCKS,some on [H] are narrow minded and have tunnel vision..
 
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