Nvidia fell for an orchestrated pricing trap says AMD exec

Ready4Dis

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And u think another one will do differently..something about doing the same thing and expecting different results. :)
 

Ready4Dis

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Sub forum, so that's probably true. I don't know if I believe the hole trap thing, more likely it was a backup plan. If Nvidia releases the super series @ +$50 do you think AMD would have done this?
 

Snowdog

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Sub forum, so that's probably true. I don't know if I believe the hole trap thing, more likely it was a backup plan. If Nvidia releases the super series @ +$50 do you think AMD would have done this?
Even though the AMD exec throws around childish terms like "Jebaited ( Nothing like middle aged executives trying to be cool by using millennial slang) , what he actually described is having a contingency plan, not a "trap". If NVidia didn't introduce "Super" there would have been no price cut. The price was NOT fake.

AMD would be much happier to not have to invoke that contingency and sacrifice $30 to $50 per card in profit. Even less happy if NVidia cut more and and AMD also had to cut more.

AMD had absolutely no choice, but to drop prices, or their launch would have essentially been ruined.

But sure spin that as a "trap". I guess some people believing that spin is a marketing success.
 

reaper12

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Even though the AMD exec throws around childish terms like "Jebaited ( Nothing like middle aged executives trying to be cool by using millennial slang) , what he actually described is having a contingency plan, not a "trap". If NVidia didn't introduce "Super" there would have been no price cut. The price was NOT fake.

AMD would be much happier to not have to invoke that contingency and sacrifice $30 to $50 per card in profit. Even less happy if NVidia cut more and and AMD also had to cut more.

AMD had absolutely no choice, but to drop prices, or their launch would have essentially been ruined.

But sure spin that as a "trap". I guess some people believing that spin is a marketing success.
How do you know the price wasn't fake?

How do you know AMD had no choice?

The only source we have telling us this is from AMD and they are saying that the price was fake, so show some evidence that it wasn't?
 

Activate: AMD

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The only source we have telling us this is from AMD and they are saying that the price was fake, so show some evidence that it wasn't?
An AMD marketing slide had a price, Nvidia drops their price to play spoiler followed by AMD marketing saying "ha we got you, we actually meant $50 less than we said this whole time!" and you're demanding that the skeptic provide proof that they DIDN'T mean to do this the whole time? Sorry but short of some verifiable leaked internal documents proving otherwise, I think occam's razor would point toward AMD reacting to NV's move rather than some 4D chess move. If you want to drink the kool-aid, by all means, but AMD is 100% trying to control the narrative around the price change in a way that makes them look good, and you don't have proof one way or the other.
 

idiomatic

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It's not 4D chess. Its launching a card vs a massive incumbent who has piles of tech they are sitting on. You know your first move can't be your best.

4D chess would have been having a 5800 and 5800xt ready to pull forward Nvidia's new tech, then a 5900 and XT ready to go after that, with the entire 5700 line being a limited run mirage. It not that, AMD just stuck a branch in Nvidias Bear trap, which Nvidia probably expected but had to go through the motions.
 

Ready4Dis

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Even though the AMD exec throws around childish terms like "Jebaited ( Nothing like middle aged executives trying to be cool by using millennial slang) , what he actually described is having a contingency plan, not a "trap". If NVidia didn't introduce "Super" there would have been no price cut. The price was NOT fake.

AMD would be much happier to not have to invoke that contingency and sacrifice $30 to $50 per card in profit. Even less happy if NVidia cut more and and AMD also had to cut more.

AMD had absolutely no choice, but to drop prices, or their launch would have essentially been ruined.

But sure spin that as a "trap". I guess some people believing that spin is a marketing success.
You basically qouted me then completely agreed with what i said that it was probably a contingency plan more than a trap. If Nvidia didn't release the super or priced them higher, I was saying I doubt AMD would have dropped their prices (not blaming them, they are a company in second place were every $ counts).
 

DuronBurgerMan

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No 4D chess here. Just standard marketing moves. You know it was funny, earlier on I was telling folks "AMD is going to have to cut prices by like $50" and folks were telling me I was crazy and/or hated AMD or something.

And here they are dropping prices by ~$50.

The market ain't magical sorcery, it's just prices. AMD and Nvidia aren't stupid. Things reach equilibrium. Nothing out of the ordinary for the parts market.
 

cybereality

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It's a bluff either way. Not sure why it's so controversial or that somehow AMD can't play ball.
 

Snowdog

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The market ain't magical sorcery, it's just prices. AMD and Nvidia aren't stupid. Things reach equilibrium. Nothing out of the ordinary for the parts market.
That is the key point. It's irrelevant who moved first. If AMD launched first at it's current pricing, absolutely nothing would have changed on the pricing front, because this is essentially the price differential that both AMD and NVidia are comfortable with.

Check nearly every release, it always reaches that point where AMD has a slight perf/$ advantage.
 

cybereality

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Yeah, I get it. I'm not sure the marketing story is true and does seem a little silly.

I guess my point is that it's not out of the realm of possiblity that AMD did the thing they claim to have done.
 

Gideon

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Inflating a launch price when you know your competitor is close to launching a product is a common thing to do. Gives you room to adjust if needed, however despite what AMD says they would not have lowered the price if Nvidia had crickets.
 

N4CR

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An AMD marketing slide had a price, Nvidia drops their price to play spoiler followed by AMD marketing saying "ha we got you, we actually meant $50 less than we said this whole time!" and you're demanding that the skeptic provide proof that they DIDN'T mean to do this the whole time? Sorry but short of some verifiable leaked internal documents proving otherwise, I think occam's razor would point toward AMD reacting to NV's move rather than some 4D chess move. If you want to drink the kool-aid, by all means, but AMD is 100% trying to control the narrative around the price change in a way that makes them look good, and you don't have proof one way or the other.
Lot of people said price was 50 to 100 too high including myself.
I said they only do this because nvidia pricing is high and amd wants to keep it high too.
So regardless of who reacted, consensus was pricing was too high.
Who reacted first?
After announcing navi launch super teasers came out. The rest is he says she says but I'm leaning on the side that amd shot for the pricing moon and corrected minimum needed. Rest is pr fluff.
 

{NG}Fidel

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Even though the AMD exec throws around childish terms like "Jebaited ( Nothing like middle aged executives trying to be cool by using millennial slang) , what he actually described is having a contingency plan, not a "trap". If NVidia didn't introduce "Super" there would have been no price cut. The price was NOT fake.

AMD would be much happier to not have to invoke that contingency and sacrifice $30 to $50 per card in profit. Even less happy if NVidia cut more and and AMD also had to cut more.

AMD had absolutely no choice, but to drop prices, or their launch would have essentially been ruined.

But sure spin that as a "trap". I guess some people believing that spin is a marketing success.
Nvidias move with super is nothing new. The idea that AMD can't foresee Nvidia doing something it always does is just pessimistic or biased.
 

N4CR

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Nvidias move with super is nothing new. The idea that AMD can't foresee Nvidia doing something it always does is just pessimistic or biased.
This. Not like they won't have a few insiders and vice versa. When it comes to stuff like TR with tiny, compartmentalized groups then you don't get any leaks.
 

Gamer X

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Even though the AMD exec throws around childish terms like "Jebaited ( Nothing like middle aged executives trying to be cool by using millennial slang) , what he actually described is having a contingency plan, not a "trap". If NVidia didn't introduce "Super" there would have been no price cut. The price was NOT fake.

AMD would be much happier to not have to invoke that contingency and sacrifice $30 to $50 per card in profit. Even less happy if NVidia cut more and and AMD also had to cut more.

AMD had absolutely no choice, but to drop prices, or their launch would have essentially been ruined.

But sure spin that as a "trap". I guess some people believing that spin is a marketing success.

The Radeon 500 Series price was planned, and so was their contingency pricing...

AMD had to set the price high, so Jensen could come in with SUPER and flop all over the place, while Dr Su drops a royal flush on the table. (It is called a bluff)



Nvidia got jabaited..! And angry cheerleaders didn't like it, but everyone else watching the card game, was laughing. As SUPER has become a dude and doesn't provide as much raw performance needed to combat Navi. Nvidia is going to have to lower their prices soon to compete with the more powerful Navi. Specially when Navi AIB graphic cards hit the shelves next month.

Now there is rumor than Jensen doesn't want to release the RTX2080 SUPER.... it is a pointless card with AMD's Radeon 5800 series incoming.
 

DuronBurgerMan

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That is the key point. It's irrelevant who moved first. If AMD launched first at it's current pricing, absolutely nothing would have changed on the pricing front, because this is essentially the price differential that both AMD and NVidia are comfortable with.

Check nearly every release, it always reaches that point where AMD has a slight perf/$ advantage.
Some folks think Intel and Nvidia want to destroy AMD or something. They don't. They will defend their turf, sure. But if AMD went under, you might get anti-trust attention on Intel and Nvidia - something neither company wants. When AMD gets uppity on occasion, you might see some price wars and crazy marketing moves, but otherwise it's business as usual. Nvidia isn't going to go out of business because AMD moves some Radeons in the low-to-mid range markets.
 

Gamer X

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Duron,
Then I guess you are missing the bigger picture.

Little-Navi uses RDNA architecture and is matching the 2080 in certain games. That is because RDNA is more powerful than Turing in modern games. Transistor per transistor, AMD wins. It is not because of 7nm, it is because of it's architecture. 2070 Super scaled down, is still bigger chip than Navi 10 @ 251mm^2.



If that doesn't sink in, then let this: What happens when Navi scales up just 8 or 16 more CUs and use GDDR6's 16 Gbps memory @ is close to 335mm^2 and it replaces the $499 market @ 2080 Super levels of performance...? With the understand that when bigger Navi hits, it will still be so small that by economy of scale, the Radeon 5800 Series will be mainstream GPU size and pushing the 5700 series down the price scale. (jabaited x2)

Thus, boxing out anything Nvidia has to offer. Or until they release their 7nm GPU in 12 months time.



Additionally, many believe AMD is waiting for Jensen to release the RTX2080 SUPER, before they announce the Radeon 5800 Series, perhaps being released around xmas time. Time will tell, but Lisa Su is holding all the cards.
 

Activate: AMD

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Lot of people said price was 50 to 100 too high including myself.
I said they only do this because nvidia pricing is high and amd wants to keep it high too.
So regardless of who reacted, consensus was pricing was too high.
Who reacted first?
After announcing navi launch super teasers came out. The rest is he says she says but I'm leaning on the side that amd shot for the pricing moon and corrected minimum needed. Rest is pr fluff.
Yes, I agree. My point was that the narrative of AMD "baiting" nvidia with some pre-planned gotcha move is stupid and all PR fluff. Did AMD have this price in their back pocket? Yea, almost definitely. Would they have liked to launch at $50 higher? Absolutely. The game of cat and mouse isn't new, but AMD marketers pretending like they just dunked on NV with their pricing is just pandering to fanboys
 

DuronBurgerMan

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Duron,
Then I guess you are missing the bigger picture.

Little-Navi uses RDNA architecture and is matching the 2080 in certain games. That is because RDNA is more powerful than Turing in modern games. Transistor per transistor, AMD wins. It is not because of 7nm, it is because of it's architecture. 2070 Super scaled down, is still bigger chip than Navi 10 @ 251mm^2.



If that doesn't sink in, then let this: What happens when Navi scales up just 8 or 16 more CUs and use GDDR6's 16 Gbps memory @ is close to 335mm^2 and it replaces the $499 market @ 2080 Super levels of performance...? With the understand that when bigger Navi hits, it will still be so small that by economy of scale, the Radeon 5800 Series will be mainstream GPU size and pushing the 5700 series down the price scale. (jabaited x2)

Thus, boxing out anything Nvidia has to offer. Or until they release their 7nm GPU in 12 months time.



Additionally, many believe AMD is waiting for Jensen to release the RTX2080 SUPER, before they announce the Radeon 5800 Series, perhaps being released around xmas time. Time will tell, but Lisa Su is holding all the cards.
I believe it when I see it. I doubt AMD is going to win on outright performance anytime soon. Of course, they don't have to! A mid-range product at the right price is absolutely fine mang. Don't need to make more of it than it is.
 

Gamer X

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I believe it when I see it. I doubt AMD is going to win on outright performance anytime soon. Of course, they don't have to! A mid-range product at the right price is absolutely fine mang. Don't need to make more of it than it is.

Here watch this. Kinda of annoying, but I am not the only person who thinks AMD's CEO is up to some sneaky stuff.

 

spine

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I'm inclined to believe AMD this time.

My logic being that nvidia's super cards expected performance would have been very easy to predict for AMD. Navi, however, is completely unknown to nvidia which allows AMD to better judge things.

They'd be fully aware of how their cards performs and thus how much they can get away to charge for it.

It's more that they wanted to protect their target price point, rather than be forced lower than that. Guess they're basically just chuffed that they managed to get that 'target' price point. Makes them feel like they're in control.
 

amenx

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Any talk of falling into a trap is silly at best. Nvidia know AMD is not bound by fixed pricing and can change it any moment. Same goes for Nvidia, they can change their price at any moment just as well.
 

techguymaxc

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Only fanboys could possibly look at this situation and believe the marketing FUD. Lower prices are great for consumers, not for profit margin. No business person thinks this was a "clever trap" by AMD. This is a response to RTX Super. AMD had to lower pricing.
 

crazycrave

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Only fanboys could possibly look at this situation and believe the marketing FUD. Lower prices are great for consumers, not for profit margin. No business person thinks this was a "clever trap" by AMD. This is a response to RTX Super. AMD had to lower pricing.
You have to have buyers and last time I checked AMD had a market for those not wanting RTX's over priced tech in a Super kind of Way .

7nm was the selling point = cpu or gpu and Nvidia with the high priced help of Intel managed to live to high in there own reality that we will take only there point of view about what really matters = my money
 
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Gamer X

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Only fanboys could possibly look at this situation and believe the marketing FUD. Lower prices are great for consumers, not for profit margin. No business person thinks this was a "clever trap" by AMD. This is a response to RTX Super. AMD had to lower pricing.
Except that is not what happened.

AMD already knew their actual pricing, but showed off their RDNA in games and at Nvidia's pricing levels. w/ RDNA being better/faster than the competition and cheaper.... (knowing Jensen already released month ago viral videos of SUPER). Knowing that Jensen wasn't doing any keynote speeches this year, and knowing they have no 7nm product this year and knowing what Turing is and what full Turing is... so AMD knew what SUPER was and knew what it was going to be priced at.



So they jebaited Jensen... and it is about to happen again!
 

GoldenTiger

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Except that is not what happened.

AMD already knew their actual pricing, but showed off their RDNA in games and at Nvidia's pricing levels. w/ RDNA being better/faster than the competition and cheaper.... (knowing Jensen already released month ago viral videos of SUPER). Knowing that Jensen wasn't doing any keynote speeches this year, and knowing they have no 7nm product this year and knowing what Turing is and what full Turing is... so AMD knew what SUPER was and knew what it was going to be priced at.



So they jebaited Jensen... and it is about to happen again!
Please spare us your viral marketing drivel.
 

Gamer X

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Please spare us your viral marketing drivel.
Please spare us your opinion of me.

Your blanket "shoot the messenger" is a clear sign your reality bubble is breaking and you are lashing out at me. I am not marketing AMD, I am buying it... along with everyone else on the other forums here. In folds.

Just because they are not here trying to keep people discussing facts... doesn't mean I am in the wrong. You can not discus Navi on any level because you prompt cards don't defend against it... do they?
 
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