NVIDIA Enters Retail with Direct Sales at Best Buy @ [H]

Ashbringer

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Zarathustra[H];1036261028 said:
Are you referrig to on-die GPU's?

More like a lack of interest. There are no new games that really take advantage of new graphic cards. On-die GPU's isn't a problem, so long as there's a demand for graphics processing power, but there isn't.

Xbox 360 and PS3 being the standard for graphics, is giving consumers no reason to upgrade.
 

sirmonkey1985

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Agreed 100%. I would LOVE EVGA Radeon Cards. I'm already loving having my XFX 5870.


wont happen any time soon.. EVGA is Nvidia's little b***h.. they will do anything Nvidia says.. on top of that i highly doubt AMD will bring EVGA in.. AMD's responsibility is still its long time AIB partners like Sapphire and diamond.. even XFX had to make a deal that it would not directly compete with Sapphire/diamond and undermine them to steal profits..

but now that XFX is leaving Nvidia we should see some interesting cards coming from XFX for AMD id guess since now XFX doesnt have to kiss Nvidia's ass anymore..
 
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Here's the reason nVidia is doing this.

It doesn't show up here and I'm reluctant to say anything because of the fanboi reaction, but in the investing community there are a lot of questions about the future of nVidia. They are on a big losing streak and the future actually looks worse. The chipset business is going away, their integrated graphics business is facing extinction as entry and mid-level mobile graphics move onto the CPU, and their SoC products haven't caught on.

That's the attitude around AMD right now. From the financial POV, eliminating the AIB's is just eliminating a middle man. It gives them more latitude on pricing against AMD and will increase their profit margins. Yes, they'll have the added cost of retail customer service, but it's going to be less expensive for them than it was for a dozen different AIB's. This is something they can show the investment bank analysts and the analysts are going to respond positively.

I think the big question is how do the AIB's respond? From a financial perspective it helps them if all of their video card AIB's move to AMD. But what about the chipset business? If nVidia squeezes Asus and Gigabyte out of the market for nVidia video cards, are they going to want to continue buying nVidia chipsets for their AMD motherboards?

This is going to get really interesting.
 

Major_A

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To add to what BaldHeadedDork is saying nVidia really screwed the pooch with SLI. It could have been a lot bigger than what it is if not for their greediness. You want to Crossfire 2 ATi cards, have 2 16x or 8x PCIe slots. Want to run SLI well you better be looking at paying a premium for your board. Then there aren't really that many options. If I could just add another card to my machine I probably would have already. But I'm not going to buy a new setup at inflated prices just to run another video card in SLI. And if anything they lost another sale on one of their video cards, that has to be more of a profit margin then their SLI license.
 

sd11

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#2 A lot of problems with AIBs, and quality. Video cards have high failure rates, mostly due to the cooling fans dying. That's a AIB problem.

nvidia has had more than it's share of product failures that be directly placed on their heads and creeped up down the road. People selling nforce/geforce products can't be blamed when nvidia jacked something up.

#3 AIBs cause customer confusion with labeling, not that it isn't Nvidia's fault either. Some consumers can end up buying an overpriced product, and find it to underperformed. Remember Geforce 4 MX doesn't equal Geforce 4 Ti?

While it could cause some, nvidias constant rebranding, see g92, causes it as well. They are the root cause here.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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More like a lack of interest. There are no new games that really take advantage of new graphic cards. On-die GPU's isn't a problem, so long as there's a demand for graphics processing power, but there isn't.

Xbox 360 and PS3 being the standard for graphics, is giving consumers no reason to upgrade.

I agree that consoles are cutting into the PC gaming market (which is too bad, cause console games tyically pale in comparison to PC games, but I disagree strongly that there are no games to task the new video cards.

You should see how many people are complainign on the 2k games forums that their 9800 GTs crawl in Civ 5, and this is a turn based strategy game for crying out loud.

Also, have you tried running Metro 2033 lately? I had to overclock my GTX470 just to get to a playable 30+ framerate at 1920x1200...

When I see games like Civ 5 that run beautifully on most good DX 11 cards and run very slowly on DX10 and earlier cards that are otherwise pretty strong, I have this feeling that DX11 is going to explode onto the scene in the next few months, making anything older or lower speced than a Radeon 5830 or Geforce GTX 460 completely obsolete...
 

mrtanner69

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As has already been mentioned Nvidia is facing some fairly severe structural challenges to key elements of its business. As such, I would imagine some VP has been arguing they are leaving money on the table, and given the sticky patch, Jen-sun agreed to a "test".

A more interesting theory would be that Nvidia sees its brand as becoming more important in the future. A fundamental shift away from Wintel PCs to Arm powered mobile devices is playing out before our eyes. Nvida sees its chance to directly challenge Intel in this new SOC based world to an extent it has never been able to do before. The Nvidia brand will likely matter more in this world. To the extent that this is true, they might be desirous of strengthening the brand with average Joe consumers.
 

ragejg

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Fact: Best Buy ASKED NVIDIA for this, just for the holidays; a sales attractant if you will. This is no effort on NVIDIA's part to "become another Apple", to "shake up AIBs" or any other crap. This is also not replacing ANY partner SKUs.
 

Valset

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Fact: Best Buy ASKED NVIDIA for this, just for the holidays; a sales attractant if you will. This is no effort on NVIDIA's part to "become another Apple", to "shake up AIBs" or any other crap. This is also not replacing ANY partner SKUs.

um, where did you get this "fact"?
 

GoodBoy

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Here's the reason nVidia is doing this.

It doesn't show up here and I'm reluctant to say anything because of the fanboi reaction, but in the investing community there are a lot of questions about the future of nVidia. They are on a big losing streak and the future actually looks worse. The chipset business is going away, their integrated graphics business is facing extinction as entry and mid-level mobile graphics move onto the CPU, and their SoC products haven't caught on.

That's the attitude around AMD right now. From the financial POV, eliminating the AIB's is just eliminating a middle man. It gives them more latitude on pricing against AMD and will increase their profit margins. Yes, they'll have the added cost of retail customer service, but it's going to be less expensive for them than it was for a dozen different AIB's. This is something they can show the investment bank analysts and the analysts are going to respond positively.

I think the big question is how do the AIB's respond? From a financial perspective it helps them if all of their video card AIB's move to AMD. But what about the chipset business? If nVidia squeezes Asus and Gigabyte out of the market for nVidia video cards, are they going to want to continue buying nVidia chipsets for their AMD motherboards?

This is going to get really interesting.

This sounds like the best reasoning yet. Make the stockholders/board members happy. Something you gotta do during the tough times.

Fact: Best Buy ASKED NVIDIA for this, just for the holidays; a sales attractant if you will. This is no effort on NVIDIA's part to "become another Apple", to "shake up AIBs" or any other crap. This is also not replacing ANY partner SKUs.

This is certainly plausible, where does the information come from?
 
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Fact: Best Buy ASKED NVIDIA for this, just for the holidays; a sales attractant if you will. This is no effort on NVIDIA's part to "become another Apple", to "shake up AIBs" or any other crap. This is also not replacing ANY partner SKUs.

Wow. I was going to point out that nVidia should be more concerned about their global AIB partners than a retailer in one market. And I was going to say that even if BB asked they had no obligation to say yes. Or instead of saying yes they could have offered to put together an nVidia special endcap promotion for BB using their AIB partners.

But since you wrote in bold, I guess that gives you the last word.

nVidia's customers are the AIB's who buy their chips. Competing against them at retail - in the largest electronics retailer in the US - is most definitely shitting on them and trying to take money out of their pocket.

Saying they did this just to make BB happy doesn't pass the smell test. Check your calendar - it's not 1997 anymore. Video cards have gone from a full aisle at BB to a few feet on a couple of shelves. I know there's a lot of myopia about the role of PC gaming and video cards in forums like this, but discrete graphics are the pimple on a gnat's ass in the computer business - both at the manufacturing and retail levels. iPads are going to be a "sales attractant" at BB this holiday season. Video cards, even as a category, are going to be an afterthought if they're thought about at all.
 

Valset

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As has already been mentioned Nvidia is facing some fairly severe structural challenges to key elements of its business. As such, I would imagine some VP has been arguing they are leaving money on the table, and given the sticky patch, Jen-sun agreed to a "test".

A more interesting theory would be that Nvidia sees its brand as becoming more important in the future. A fundamental shift away from Wintel PCs to Arm powered mobile devices is playing out before our eyes. Nvida sees its chance to directly challenge Intel in this new SOC based world to an extent it has never been able to do before. The Nvidia brand will likely matter more in this world. To the extent that this is true, they might be desirous of strengthening the brand with average Joe consumers.

I see your point but to Joe Consumer the Nvidia brand isn't at all well known. going against their AIB isn't really going to change that (or I can't see how). If they are trying to establish a brand name I think it would have been better served to have done so in a new product. reinforcing their name in the video card market seems pointless given that there are only two real players left in the market now.
 
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I have a friend who works in the video card industry. He says this is just due to excessive stock.

I wouldn't be surprised if they have excess capacity problems. But how do they get from that to competing against their AIB customers at retail? If it's just excessive stock, discount the prices to your wholesale customers and let them undercut AMD. If it's excess capacity, measure the cost/benefit of breaking your contract with the fab or look at extended price cuts.

Going into retail doesn't solve a capacity problem unless you're either getting into a brand new market, or you're cutting your retail prices. Neither is true here. nVidia was in BB before and their prices are in line with existing nVidia cards from other makers.
 

Jeffredo

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That box and packaging is hecka better than the one my PNY GTX 460 came in. At least I have blue PCB for what its worth (which is nothing).
 

Bladestar

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Nvidia has been selling cards at the best buy in tyler texas for at least a month now.Seen them when I was buying a laptop.

I also seen the nvidia boxes/cards last week, I thought anyone who would buy those cards at those prices must be nuts.

Come to find out that Kyle not only bought one card, but bought two, so that must make him Mr. Peanut.

Congrats on the new title Kyle! :D

The local BB had a ton of XFX AMD/ATI cards, and 4-5 PNY, and some Galaxy cards as well.
I also noticed they started to sell Corsair's water cooler, and a Corsair branded heatsink for the CPU, never knew they even did anything but water cooling.
 

Exavior

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Exactly my point, Kyle is not an average consumer, yet he got the card inspite of the "false statement". Now if it bothers him so much, why not return the card?

§kynet;1036260699 said:
Do you really need it spelled out for you? Have you ever run a business?

Exactly. What type of hardware site can ONLY buy the greatest of stuff for review? Every now and then they have to buy some random thing that they think is going to be shit just to say if it is shit or not. Same here, doesn't matter if you don't exactly like their wording or that they dont' follow their own rules, you buy the product anyway to test it and let your readers know if they should consider buying it or not.
 

weebling1

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muahahha!

an evil thought just came to mind...

Perhaps nVidia is positioning themselves to be a plan to store shelf video card maker so they become REALLY attractive for Intel to BUY!

:D

are their executives getting ready to retire?
 

§kynet

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Fact: Best Buy ASKED NVIDIA for this, just for the holidays; a sales attractant if you will. This is no effort on NVIDIA's part to "become another Apple", to "shake up AIBs" or any other crap. This is also not replacing ANY partner SKUs.
Where is this "fact" coming from?

weebling, that's crazy talk. :p
 

Arvig

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Exactly my point, Kyle is not an average consumer, yet he got the card inspite of the "false statement". Now if it bothers him so much, why not return the card?

Well, someone else may have already mentioned this. And I'm obvioulsy not Kyle Bennett so all I can do is assume. But gee, could it be he ONLY bought them for the article? I'd have to read it again but I think he's going to do a follow up with regards to the "Platinum service", and Nvidia is also going to post more information next week according to the article, so he's keeping them for now due to that? Again, just assumptions but they seem like logical reasons to me to keep these cards when he otherwise dislikes how they are marketed as "built by Nvidia".

Or to put it another way, they are for research for his articles on his site. When he's done with such, I'd assume he'll return the cards. His next article might even be his experience with trying to RMA them via their Platinum support, he did mention it enough in the article.

Oh well, I suspect I'm feeding a troll here, and again this thread is six pages and your post is only on page two or three so someone may have already said something similar to you. But do enjoy. :p
 

Stoly

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§kynet;1036260699 said:
Do you really need it spelled out for you? Have you ever run a business?

Yes I've been running several business for more than 25 years, Married to a lovely wife, have a kid, have my own house, car and I pay my bills.

Now, what was your point?
 

Savoy

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Interesting read to say the least nice job as usual Kyle. Alot of interesting theories as to why Nvidia would be doing this but I suspect it's a 2 fold reason. One being they want to test the waters in case down the road they will need to be the major seller of their video cards in the retail space due to costs associated with having the middlemen(aib's) out of the picture. Means more profit for them. Second I suspect nvidia wants a much much better brand image with the general public. I mean shit outside of hardware circles like ours and other hardware geeks, noone really knows who or what nvidia is. I have mentioned nvidia many times over the years to people who are into computers/electronics and they look at me like I have 6 heads, they never heard the name. They are not even close to an apple, microsoft,ibm, dell, or intel etc. They want to have a brand presence going foward since the landscape of their business is changing for many reasons as we all know who follow the industry. It sort of makes sense to me.

As far as pissing off their aib's...well for 1 thing the likes of EVGA aren't going anywhere unless nvidia ever goes out of business heh. You can bank ont hat one. You guys can call evga nvidia's lil bitch all youw ant but they have a very good relationship with them, they make plenty of money being nvidia's bitch and they nor nvidia will fuck that up any time soon. Nvidia isn't stupid they aren't going to ruin that relationship, guaranteed. I doubt this is a move nvidia will stick with. I agree with Kyle I think this is postering or testing the waters at best for now.
 
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I never understood how someone could drop $300 on a GPU or any other DIY PC component at Best Buy and not do any research beforehand. You can literally pick up two GTX 460 768mb cards for less than the price you'd pay for the single 460 at Best Buy.

Because people have no idea that these websites exist, nor do they have any interest in dealing with "shady online retailers".
 

tpfaff

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Did ATI do this in the past? I think I remember buying an ATI branded x800xl
 

jamesrb

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Them charging so much over MSRP is insulting. Who sets this price, Nvidia or Best Buy?

This packaging looks ok, but not as good as some Asus cards I have got. It seems that all of my Sapphire cards have just been loose in the box (wrapped in anti static bag).
 

tejas

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Interesting development. Echoes of 3dfx methinks. We need Nvidia around for competition though.

On another note, does anyone see the resemblence of Kyle to Jim Raynor of Starcraft 2?? Just been bugging me thats all!
 

ragejg

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§kynet;1036261601 said:
Where is this "fact" coming from?

weebling, that's crazy talk. :p

No, not at all. :p It's straight from A horse's mouth, and is off the record yet duly credible.
 

[Spectre]

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No, not at all. :p It's straight from A horse's mouth, and is off the record yet duly credible.

Yes well Mr. Ed is a A horse too, but that doesn't mean he knows anything about the situation.
 

§kynet

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No, not at all. :p It's straight from A horse's mouth, and is off the record yet duly credible.
You seem to have made it your mission to post this is a temp deal, have seen it on 3 or 4 forums at least. (slow day). Why do you feel the need to emphasize that this is only for a short time?

It's almost like you are trying to fight the perception that this is not a good move.
 

sirmonkey1985

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Them charging so much over MSRP is insulting. Who sets this price, Nvidia or Best Buy?

This packaging looks ok, but not as good as some Asus cards I have got. It seems that all of my Sapphire cards have just been loose in the box (wrapped in anti static bag).


bestbuy sets the pricing.. odds are nvidia sold them the cards at msrp and there ya get the insane mark up..
 

ragejg

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§kynet;1036262135 said:
You seem to have made it your mission to post this is a temp deal, have seen it on 3 or 4 forums at least. (slow day). Why do you feel the need to emphasize that this is only for a short time?

It's almost like you are trying to fight the perception that this is not a good move.

No, I'm tempering the vilification and assumptions a bit with some facts.

And did you see me posting this on several forums? That may be because I'm the news poster/tech writer at NV News, and I participate in sharing new news stories at rage3d as well. No ill intent, I just frequent a few places. :D

And so I'll clear it up here first... regarding:

Fact: Best Buy ASKED NVIDIA for this, just for the holidays. This is no effort on NVIDIA's part to "become another Apple", to "shake up AIBs" or any other crap. This is also not replacing ANY partner SKUs.

... this is based on information straight from NVIDIA, albeit not in a prepared statement. I'm sharing this in hopes that at least some of the assumptions are put to rest about what's going on regarding this... NVIDIA doesn't view this move as any sort of big deal, and it's really not.

Put down your pitchforks. :p
 
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nobody_here

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note grammar error:

The Bottom Line
....... I think NVIDIA will get a taste of the discreet video card business and not like it at all. Not because NVIDIA is worried about destroying relationships with its partners, but rather because it is about to learn that the AIBs are better equipped to handle the dirty business of graphics card sales in North America.

and on the topic....the only thing i took exception to in this article is that you spent WAAAYYY too long going on and on about how it says "built by Nvidia" when it technically is not.

i would offer to you that everyone i know buying video cards in Best Buy has a complete skewed perception of brands, manufacturers and distributors....they dont even recognize the supply chain bro....i was online playing Battlefield Bad Company 2 with two friends online the other night. they are avid online PC gamers, but not technology geeks....they think you can argue a PNY card is better than a Gigabyte card. they did not even once in the argument use the word "Nvidia" or "GPU"....not once....when i asked what kind of GPU it had they responded with "Intel" and when i explained that i asked GPU on the video card, not CPU......the response was "it's the 512Mb one"........and when i was experiencing some high pings in game one of them told me it was "most likely my graphics card"

these guys are not dumb, they have decent rigs and play online a lot.....but they ARE exactly who shops at Best Buy for video cards and let me tell you expressly without a doubt and with no exception....they give a F-ALL who made it, who it says made it, or who actually made it.....they wouldn't even commit it to memory if you explained it all to them that a bunch of suicidal people at Foxxconn built them along side iPhones.....they immediately throw the box away and would never even call tech support.......

people simply dont give a F these days. you feel pointing out; nay.....putting it up on the marquee, that Nvidia didn't actually build these cards is a noble cause, but to be honest, the only people paying attention are the ones that know better anyways...

i think this article was pretty pointless honestly and a big to-do about nothing

Nvidia is trying to break into other markets like media streaming Boxees and mobile devices. they are trying to create a larger brand name presence. it is working obviously because what would have gone passed on as a nothing occurrence is now on the front page more than once in 24 hours....no doubt driving page hits and in turn ad revenue, but to learn what? Nvidia is marketing their own product? really?
 
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ragejg

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note grammar error:



and on the topic....the only thing i took exception to in this article is that you spent WAAAYYY too long going on and on about how it says "built by Nvidia" when it technically is not.

i would offer to you that everyone i know buying video cards in Best Buy has a complete skewed perception of brands, manufacturers and distributors....they dont even recognize the supply chain bro....i was online playing Battlefield Bad Company 2 with two friends online the other night. they are avid online PC gamers, but not technology geeks....they think you can argue a PNY card is better than a Gigabyte card. they did not even once in the argument use the word "Nvidia" or "GPU"....not once....when i asked what kind of GPU it had they responded with "Intel" and when i explained that i asked GPU on the video card, not CPU......the response was "it's the 512Mb one"........and when i was experiencing some high pings in game one of them told me it was "most likely my graphics card"

these guys are not dumb, they have decent rigs and play online a lot.....but they ARE exactly who shops at Best Buy for video cards and let me tell you expressly without a doubt and with no exception....they give a F-ALL who made it, who it says made it, or who actually made it.....they wouldn't even commit it to memory if you explained it all to them that a bunch of suicidal people at Foxxconn built them along side iPhones.....they immediately throw the box away and would never even call tech support.......

people simply dont give a F these days. you feel pointing out; nay.....putting it up on the marquee, that Nvidia didn't actually build these cards is a noble cause, but to be honest, the only people paying attention are the ones that know better anyways...

i think this article was pretty pointless honestly and a big to-do about nothing

Nvidia is trying to break into other markets like media streaming Boxees and mobile devices. they are trying to create a larger brand name presence. it is working obviously because what would have gone passed on as a nothing occurrence is now on the front page more than once in 24 hours....no doubt driving page hits and turn ad revenue, but to learn what? Nvidia is marketing their own product? really?


Post of the effing thread. :cool:
 

JFL1969

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You can now buy the latest Nvidia video cards at Best Buy. And for the low cost of $29.99, they'll include the latest drivers available for free on the internet.
 
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