NVIDIA Dictates Advertised Video Card Pricing

When shopping online I am always annoyed by minimum advertised pricing. Just show me the damn price; don't make me have to add it to my cart to do so! The system is nonsense from a customer's point of view.
 
Reaching all the way back to page 7...

joemama said:
This is similar to the strategy Pioneer uses for it's plasma displays....and a big reason that in spite of having a superior product, their sales lag behind Panasonic and Samsung and now they have been forced to stop producing their own panels.
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Threadjacking for just a moment. Pioneer is hardly the only company that does this. Just to prove a point, I went to bestbuy.com and checked every manufacturer of plasma displays. Out of 15 companies, nearly half (seven) didn't have any sets on display that required an "Add to Cart" click. What I found humorous about it is that both Panasonic and Samsung DID have sets that required it. Oh, and Pioneer happens to be one of the companies that didn't.

Pioneer's outsourcing of panel production has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether or not the consumer has to add their product to a cart to see the price, and has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that the cost of production is far higher than the cost of outsourcing. That, and Panasonic is one of the larger fabrication companies on the planet.

Just sayin'.

As for the topic at hand, ok, I'll cede the point that adding a dozen-plus cards to your cart to get the price, over multiple sites, is kind of a hassle. And I'm on board with the idea that a smarter naming convention would do wonders to let people in on which cards are "better." But to take it back to the TV analogy for a moment, if companies were out to do well for the consumer, and not just out there to make a buck, there wouldn't be such a thing as the "Vivid" setting on your TV. "Look, it's colorful, it's bright, ignore the fact that it's completely unnatural and has insane red-push! BUY OUR SHINY PRODUCT!" Until I know for a fact that ATI has a superior product to nVidia, I'll stick with them.
 
from a profit standpoint, its a hell of a lot better for newegg, and tiger direct, because it wards off people from price shopping because of the hassle involved. This is how commerce used to be, before the advent of the web. Although, i dont think they should have that much control over the prices of resellers, thats sounds like dangerous amount of power for a company that now seems motivated to suck every penny out of us.
 
hedron said:
I don't understand what people's problem with this is. Nvidia is just protecting their marketshare to stay competitive. All I noticed was cheaper products that are more uniformly priced.

Like, "Oh noes, nvidia sets prices for their own video cards!?" Do you guys even listen to yourselves?
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Not that you are alone because there are others' also who fail to realize that nvidia' s interest is the chip, and nothing but the chip, each vendor purchases xxx amount of chips, pcb, memory configs, spec etc are exclusive to each different vendor....the video cards are the intellectual property of evga, bfg, asus, msi etc......not nvidia, nvidia already got theirs' (money) and the vast majority of people think nvidia should keep their nose out of the Free' market place, technically what they(nvidia) are doing is illegal, price fixing.

Nvidia is getting pompous, now they are butting heads with intel.....get ready to say goodbye to being able to run sli with of the next gen intel cpu's.....
 
Tabasco69 said:
Not that you are alone because there are others' also who fail to realize that nvidia' s interest is the chip, and nothing but the chip, each vendor purchases xxx amount of chips, pcb, memory configs, spec etc are exclusive to each different vendor....the video cards are the intellectual property of evga, bfg, asus, msi etc......not nvidia, nvidia already got theirs' (money) and the vast majority of people think nvidia should keep their nose out of the Free' market place, technically what they(nvidia) are doing is illegal, price fixing.
Nvidia is getting pompous, now they are butting heads with intel.....get ready to say goodbye to being able to run sli with of the next gen intel cpu's.....
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blah blah blah you accuse others of failing to realize yet you fail to realize that nvidia has not done any price fixing because ... wait ... they're not fixing the fucking price. newegg etc. can sell it for whatever they want. they just can't show a lower price.

price fixing btw is an agreement between competitors setting an artificial high price. have any of you guys even studied business never mind been in it? going around accusing a company of price fixing ... by themselves! :rolleyes:
 
You don't need to have multiple competitors colluding in order to call it "price fixing"--it can be performed by a single company when that company has enough control on the market. This is definitely true here. And while there may be a legal distinction between a company dictating sales price and dictating advertised price, the result is the same: (artificially) higher prices for consumers than the market would naturally bear. After all, nobody is going to put a discount on a card when they can't tell anyone there's a discount, or if the customer has to jump through hoops to see the discount.

What makes it even worse is that nVidia aren't just dictating the price of the product they produce themselves. They are dictating the price of products of which their chip is only a component. Would the market tolerate it if Intel were to do something similar? "Dell, you must sell all your computers for at least $600."

Fortunately, although nVidia apparently wields all control over nV cards, they aren't the only player in the market, and the market will respond. While AMD don't have the capacity to eat them alive, I think they stand to take significant market share on this issue and on the "31 flavors of 8800" circus. After owning nVidia cards for some years, my last purchase was a Radeon HD3850. Looking back, it is now clear to my that my purchase was influenced in large part by the fact that 1) the AMD/ATi range of cards was simpler and easier to understand, and 2) they represented pretty good price/performance.

And yes, I understand price fixing, collusion, monopoly abuse, etc. I work in an industry that's had plenty of experience either dealing with it or being accused of doing it.
 
Mohonri said:
You don't need to have multiple competitors colluding in order to call it "price fixing"
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Umm, yes you do. Don't believe me? Ask the DOJ:
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/guidelines/pfbrprimer.pdf

--it can be performed by a single company when that company has enough control on the market. This is definitely true here.
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No it cannot. What you describe is just a company setting it's own price. Absolutely positively nothing wrong with that. A company can be a monopoly if it won the competition outright. Then it is free to set it's prices. Now, if they cheated and abused their way to win it, or once they've won it, they're abusing that monopoly power, then yes, it may become illegal. But up until that, it is not. MS had an essential monopoly on desktop OS. They didn't really come into the jurisdiction of the DOJ until they tried to abuse that power by giving away IE free, bundling it into there OS etc.

And while there may be a legal distinction between a company dictating sales price and dictating advertised price, the result is the same: (artificially) higher prices for consumers than the market would naturally bear. After all, nobody is going to put a discount on a card when they can't tell anyone there's a discount, or if the customer has to jump through hoops to see the discount.
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What? They do this all the time. "Click here, prices so low, we can't even advertise it!" This is not groundbreaking. Look above you, amazon does it for TVs all the time. Go try and buy B&W speakers online, or Definitive Technology speakers. They can't usually advertise a minimum price or else DT/B&W pulls their incentives. The retailer is still free to sell for whatever they wish.

What makes it even worse is that nVidia aren't just dictating the price of the product they produce themselves. They are dictating the price of products of which their chip is only a component. Would the market tolerate it if Intel were to do something similar? "Dell, you must sell all your computers for at least $600."
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, you were arguing about price minimum, which Nvidia is not doing. Irrelevant.

Fortunately, although nVidia apparently wields all control over nV cards, they aren't the only player in the market, and the market will respond. While AMD don't have the capacity to eat them alive, I think they stand to take significant market share on this issue and on the "31 flavors of 8800" circus. After owning nVidia cards for some years, my last purchase was a Radeon HD3850. Looking back, it is now clear to my that my purchase was influenced in large part by the fact that 1) the AMD/ATi range of cards was simpler and easier to understand, and 2) they represented pretty good price/performance.
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This is true, and the whole point. There is still competition. ATI cards are going to sell really well, but it's price and performance.Either company should win on merits, nothing else. Minimum advertised pricing (not minimium price period) does not affect this. Lots of very successful companies and market leaders do this minimum advertised pricing. They have had no problems with it.

And yes, I understand price fixing, collusion, monopoly abuse, etc. I work in an industry that's had plenty of experience either dealing with it or being accused of doing it.
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Eh, I think you need to brush up slightly with your info, or stop by your in-house legal department to chit chat.
 
I wonder if nvidia is responsible for the messed up uk pricing then.

eg. in usa 9600gt is cheaper than 8800gt so reviewers say 9600gt better ban for buck whilst here in uk they both the same price making 8800gt a better bang for buck. Here the 4850 is about 30% more expensive than a 8800gt and a 9800gt is double the price of a 8800gt. A 4850 here costs the same as a 280 in usa.
 
The drop in US $ value hasnt settled here yet (in the UK), a lot of things cost substantially more here.
Prices for different items settle at their own pace so discrepancies will exist.
Couple that with competitive pricing policies and reduced pricing to allow for newer models thus making the prices vary further from best price : performance ratio.
You just gotta be careful buying PC stuff, make sure to get good advice on product and pricing if not in the know.
 
deeznuts said:
Umm, yes you do. Don't believe me? Ask the DOJ:
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/guidelines/pfbrprimer.pdf
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I actually read through the entire article you posted and would just show you some of the quotes from your own article:

Quote 1:
"Price fixing can take many forms, and any agreement that restricts price competition violates the law." (Page 2 column 1)

Well lets see, "you can have a lower price, but you can't advertise it" says nvidia...
Definitely not prohibiting price compeition... but restricting it by preventing any form of price competition to be advertised... that seems pretty clear.


Quote 2:
"Other examples of price-fixing agreements include those to:
(1) establish or adhere to price discounts;
(2) hold prices firm;
(3) eliminate or reduce discounts;
(4) adopt a standard formula for
computing prices;
(5) maintain certain price differentials
between different types, sizes,
or quantities of products;
(6) adhere to a minimum fee or
price schedule;
(7) fix credit terms; or
(8) not advertise prices."

well... thats hard to interpret... lets see... nVidia is bullying reseller into... NOT ADVERTISING lower prices... seems clear enough by your own document that they are in fact "Price Fixing" according to the DOJ :)
 
Can someone help me with some question I have about have 2 screens, I have a 19" right now but woundering to buy a secend one. I have GeForce 8600 GS and it have one DVI contact and one VGA (I use the DVI), I'm undring if I can get 1440 x 900 with VGA contact. Or will it be eny difference at all?
 
Pzych0 said:
Can someone help me with some question I have about have 2 screens, I have a 19" right now but woundering to buy a secend one. I have GeForce 8600 GS and it have one DVI contact and one VGA (I use the DVI), I'm undring if I can get 1440 x 900 with VGA contact. Or will it be eny difference at all?
Click to expand...

Yeah it will work no problem but you need to make sure one of your monitors has a VGA port.
 
Zero82z said:
Seems like a silly policy that pisses off both retailers and consumers and doesn't accomplish anything in the end. Limiting the ability of retailers to control their own pricing removes their ability to effectively compete and goes against the fundamental concept of a free market. Hopefully nVidia will see how ridiculous this system is and will kill it within a few months.

Kudos to you guys for bringing this out into the open. Now that nVidia will probably be receiving tons of backlash from this, they'll be all the more likely to end this quickly(hopefully).
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I recently created my own video card policy....... I PURCHASED AN ATI CARD INSTEAD OF NVIDIA. WAY TO GO NVIDIA. No question about the prices on ATI CARDS :D
Cant Wait to install my new 4870. :D
Im sure someone at nvidia thinks this pricing crap is way cool.......too bad consumers dont agree huh!!:D:D:D:D
 
I just got 2 eVGA 9800 gx2 for $285 each at Newegg. Quad core, here I come! Now to buy the koolance waterblocks...
 
2 x GTX260, 2x 4850/4870 or 4870x2 are a better buy, Quad SLI scales badly except in Crysis.
Can you return them?
 
Do you must have 2 of the same card or can you have 2 different craphic card as long both have SLI?
 
I'm pretty sure that you have to have 2 of the same cards. They can be different brands, but they have to be the same reference design
 
Cards from two separate retail companies will work together in SLI mode, but they must be the same GPU model (e.g. G70, G73, G80, etc). The cards may have different BIOS revisions, different default clock speeds, or even different memory sizes. However, the fastest card – or the card with more memory - will run at the speed of the slower card or disable its additional memory
 
chuch said:
Cards from two separate retail companies will work together in SLI mode, but they must be the same GPU model (e.g. G70, G73, G80, etc). The cards may have different BIOS revisions, different default clock speeds, or even different memory sizes. However, the fastest card – or the card with more memory - will run at the speed of the slower card or disable its additional memory
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You sure about the memory? So a 8800gt 256MB will run SLI with a 8800gt 512MB?
 
i think nvidia would win the video card war regardless this fact. they just got more user friendly products imo
 
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