NVIDIA Brings DLSS Support To Four New Games

erek

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Messages
6,988
"Powered by dedicated AI processors on GeForce RTX GPUs called Tensor Cores, DLSS has accelerated performance in more than 25 games to date, boosting frame rates significantly, ensuring GeForce RTX gamers receive high-performance gameplay at the highest resolutions and detail settings, and when using immersive ray-traced effects. And now, NVIDIA has delivered four new DLSS titles for gamers to enjoy."

https://www.techpowerup.com/274812/nvidia-brings-dlss-support-to-four-new-games
 

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
51,087
Thought this was interesting input from Hardware Unboxed.

For the (many) people wondering why we didn't place much emphasis on RT or DLSS performance in our RX 6800 XT review... this is why:

zzzz.png
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
4,498
Go figure, you review a product for today's market, not tomorrows. Who would have thunk?
 

-Strelok-

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Dec 2, 2010
Messages
10,548
DLSS is a nice extra, it’s not an essential feature. Although I find it a lot more useful than the current RT implementations.
 

DPI

Nitpick Police
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
11,079
Thought this was interesting input from Hardware Unboxed.

For the (many) people wondering why we didn't place much emphasis on RT or DLSS performance in our RX 6800 XT review... this is why:
Not focusing on RT/DLSS was the correct methodology for review sites. I'm a fan of both, I was super impressed by RT/DLSS in Control, as well as DLSS 2.0 in Death Stranding, and its notable that Cyberpunk will have RT/DLSS 2.0 -- however, it would be a bad faith argument to spend more than a footnote on it in reviews, and it would muddy the waters unfairly.

After today's 6800XT benches, I am sure /r/Nvidia right now is goalpost-moving to RT/DLSS suddenly being the most important factor in all of gaming, but that's bullshit because raster performance is still king at least for the next generation or two -- and AMD brought it, and destroyed my misconception of how many laps ahead I believed Nvidia to be.
 

Brackle

Old Timer
Joined
Jun 19, 2003
Messages
7,715
Even if you take which games are played more. The 2 COD games you wont even enable RT because you want the best framerate anyway. Probably in Dirt 5 as well, and maybe MHW. Now the other games sure I can see it since they are SP games.

But totally agree, review for today....not 2 years from now.
 

LukeTbk

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Messages
402
That a big of a misleading presentation, 8 games has RT, 9 has DLSS (and best selling maybe more relevant than review on open critics).

And if that list list was used:
https://opencritic.com/browse/pc/2020/num-reviews
One of the top title Doom eternal has ray tracing no ? and not featured, there seem to have at least a couple of entry missing.

Looking at best sellings game sound a more relevant approach but the point could maybe still stand with it as well, I would add looking at the list of best selling game for which being an very expensive new games would make sense (the list above is full of crusader kings and other title that are completely irrelevant to an 6800xt) I doubt it would still sound has convincing.
Specially considering how many people that are rushing for an upgrade could be doing so with Cyberpunk 2077 in mind (if it get out one day) and that seem to be a title that will massively use both, plus how common it is on new/announced release now that both consoles support RT, it could be a more important feature for readers that one could assume.
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
4,498
That a big of a misleading presentation, 8 games has RT, 9 has DLSS (and best selling maybe more relevant than review on open critics).

And if that list list was used:
https://opencritic.com/browse/pc/2020/num-reviews
One of the top title Doom eternal has ray tracing no ? and not featured, there seem to have at least a couple of entry missing.

Looking at best sellings game sound a more relevant approach but the point could maybe still stand with it as well, I would add looking at the list of best selling game for which being an very expensive new games would make sense (the list above is full of crusader kings and other title that are completely irrelevant to an 6800xt) I doubt it would still sound has convincing.
Specially considering how many people that are rushing for an upgrade could be doing so with Cyberpunk 2077 in mind (if it get out one day) and that seem to be a title that will massively use both, plus how common it is on new/announced release now that both consoles support RT, it could be a more important feature for readers that one could assume.

Naa its marketing slurry atm. Its a feature, but one that really won't go mainstream for years.

CP2077 will take most people, what, 80 hours if that (i'll be around 200 but most will never hit that number)? The multiplayer is a huge unknown.

Doom Eternal does not have Ray Tracing as of now.

Most games do not have ray tracing. People will put more time into a game like CoD, Vermintide, Fortnight or Deep Rock Galactic than CP 2077 over a year, and while CoD has ray tracing most will leave it off and prioritize frames (same with Fortnight) anything competitive multiplayer really doesn't need and most people won't use the latest graphical features due to frame chasing.

I like Ray Tracing, but to pretend its relevant TODAY beyond drinking some marketing coolaid is laughable. DLSS is by far more relevant today than ray tracing, and even that is niche atm.
 

Mega6

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
3,055
That a big of a misleading presentation, 8 games has RT, 9 has DLSS (and best selling maybe more relevant than review on open critics).

A couple out of thousands.. whatever. Same difference.

One of the top title Doom eternal has ray tracing no ? and not featured, there seem to have at least a couple of entry missing.

If you're going to mention a game, you should probably look it up yourself. no? And the answer is NO, not yet, maybe never. I mean it's been 7 months since release, who really cares anymore.
 

Lakados

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
3,029
Naa its marketing slurry atm. Its a feature, but one that really won't go mainstream for years.

CP2077 will take most people, what, 80 hours if that (i'll be around 200 but most will never hit that number)? The multiplayer is a huge unknown.

Doom Eternal does not have Ray Tracing as of now.

Most games do not have ray tracing. People will put more time into a game like CoD, Vermintide, Fortnight or Deep Rock Galactic than CP 2077 over a year, and while CoD has ray tracing most will leave it off and prioritize frames (same with Fortnight) anything competitive multiplayer really doesn't need and most people won't use the latest graphical features due to frame chasing.

I like Ray Tracing, but to pretend its relevant TODAY beyond drinking some marketing coolaid is laughable. DLSS is by far more relevant today than ray tracing, and even that is niche atm.
RT is far more relevant in single player titles, RPG games and the like where you actually interact with your environment and the only frame rate that matters is the one that you like. The hardware and maturity just isn’t there yet for competitive titles because it is a liability.
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
4,498
RT is far more relevant in single player titles, RPG games and the like where you actually interact with your environment and the only frame rate that matters is the one that you like. The hardware and maturity just isn’t there yet for competitive titles because it is a liability.

I don't know if it will ever be there for competitive titles, chasing those Hz puts a big demand on systems and IQ settings.
 

LukeTbk

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Messages
402
Naa its marketing slurry atm. Its a feature, but one that really won't go mainstream for years.
What percentage of the PS5-Xbox Series X games available has RT ? More than 50% no ?

Look at the PS5 big game launch
https://www.cnet.com/news/ps5-launch-games-all-the-playstation-5-titles-you-can-buy-now/
Demon souls: no
Miles Morales: Yes
Godfall:yes
dirt 5: yes
wrc 9: no
Assassin Creed: No
NBA 2k21: Yes
Devils may cry 5: yes
Boderlands 3: Yes
Fortnite: yes
No man's sky: no ?
Destiny 2: no
CoD: yes
Mortal Kombat: No
Watch Dogs: yes

That around 9 with RT vs 6 without, I feel anything not on console would always have a really hard time getting mainstream if they involve work and things console support can be, RT has the potential to remove a lot of work not add work.

I feel that was true until early 2021, now that $500 consoles has it, would not be surprised if most major 2021 release (the type of games for which talking about a 6800xt start to make sense) has some RT going on.


Doom Eternal does not have Ray Tracing as of now.
I got mix up by many youtube video called Doom eternal with RT on when I searched.
 

LukeTbk

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Messages
402
If you're going to mention a game, you should probably look it up yourself. no? And the answer is NO, not yet, maybe never. I mean it's been 7 months since release, who really cares anymore.
I did look before and got mix up by that many: that showed up
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
4,498
What percentage of the PS5-Xbox Series X games available has RT ? More than 50% no ?

Look at the PS5 big game launch
https://www.cnet.com/news/ps5-launch-games-all-the-playstation-5-titles-you-can-buy-now/
Demon souls: no
Miles Morales: Yes
Godfall:yes
dirt 5: yes
wrc 9: no
Assassin Creed: No
NBA 2k21: Yes
Devils may cry 5: yes
Boderlands 3: Yes
Fortnite: yes
No man's sky: no ?
Destiny 2: no
CoD: yes
Mortal Kombat: No
Watch Dogs: yes

That around 9 with RT vs 6 without, I feel anything not on console would always have a really hard time getting mainstream if they involve work and things console support can be, RT has the potential to remove a lot of work not add work.

I feel that was true until early 2021, now that $500 consoles has it, would not be surprised if most major 2021 release (the type of games for which talking about a 6800xt start to make sense) has some RT going on.



I got mix up by many youtube video called Doom eternal with RT on when I searched.

You understand what the term TODAY means right? As in today, not tomorrow, not eventually, not incoming or announced, but today.

If you had your head out from under that rock, you'd realize that announced titles featuring RTX/DLSS is a joke given how many titles actually appeared with those features vs how many just silently dropped it over the last two years.

Hence why you review, buy and plan for today, not something that might happen tomorrow (which btw, there will be better hardware tomorrow too which makes todays purchase for tomorrow also a joke).

Also, those titles will be built around AMD's ray tracing solution, given the console penetration.

* also as of today, BL 3 does not have ray tracing.
 
Last edited:

LukeTbk

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Messages
402
You understand what the term TODAY means right? As in today, not tomorrow, not eventually, not incoming or announced, but today.
PS5 launch is as much today than when we would be able to get those cards no ?

You can buy Miles Morales and most of the listed (all?) today no ?

If you had your head out from under that rock, you'd realize that announced titles featuring RTX/DLSS is a joke given how many titles actually appeared with those features vs how many just silently dropped it over the last two years.
Isn't most of the listed title already released and already using RT ?

Also, those titles will be built around AMD's ray tracing solution, given the console penetration.
yes and that exactly the point given the console penetration, we will be today (has today a moment I can enter a store or go to amazon buy the card) in a world completely different in RT supported hardware, we will go from in early 2020 where about no one has RT in the gaming base to most people for the AAA games in late 2021.
 
Last edited:

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
4,498
PS5 launch is as much today than when we would be able to get those cards no ?

You can buy Miles Morales and most of the listed (all?) today no ?


Isn't most of the listed title already released and already using RT ?


yes and that exactly the point given the console penetration, we will be today (has today a moment I can enter a store or go to amazon buy the card) in a world completely different in RT supported hardware, we will go from in early 2020 where about no one has RT in the gaming base to most people for the AAA games in late 2021.

Again Today, and again, you haven't paid any historical attention, until those games release with the feature, it doesn't exist.
Fortnite is a competitive game where frames matter, same with CoD, most users won't be using Ray Tracing to get the highest FPS (why is this so hard to understand?).

BL3 no ray tracing at this time. DMC5 Only on PS5 (maybe) xbox no.

You have a handful of titles, most of them are hardly the biggest titles of the year too (dirt 5 lol). The VAST majority of games do not have it, it has proven to be harder to implement than 'it just works' and it is very, very, frame intensive, so that takes out every Competitive FPS.


OK.

Am I the only one who thinks DLSS looks kind of shit?
DLSS absolutely looks like shit most of the time, and you are not the only one. It has convinced me that most people are blind.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
3,634
DLSS 1.x, yes. DLSS 2.0 has been shown to look as good or even better in some cases as native res from the comparisons I've seen.

I have played with the latest DLSS in a couple of games, both looked like absolute garbage.

As someone who very, very seldom plays AAA titles that get the attention from nVidia there really is nothing in it for me.
 

T4rd

Fully [H]
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
18,102
I have played with the latest DLSS in a couple of games, both looked like absolute garbage.

Same here and had the opposite observation, most recently with Control. DLSS look the same to me and ran ~30% faster. I toggled it several times in different scenes trying to spot differences as well.
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
4,498
Same here and had the opposite observation, most recently with Control. DLSS look the same to me and ran ~30% faster. I toggled it several times in different scenes trying to spot differences as well.

Control looks ok with DLSS 2, but 1 was terrible. Native is better in my opinion but the frames suffer making DLSS a must if you want max ray tracing.

DLSS looks fine when you stand still, its in motion that it starts to suffer, distance objects too (Legion) get artifacting, and effect details (rain) get lost. I can absolutely see that it is upscaling things, everything gets that slightly smudged vasoline look similar to the early 2000s.
 

T4rd

Fully [H]
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
18,102
Control looks ok with DLSS 2, but 1 was terrible. Native is better in my opinion but the frames suffer making DLSS a must if you want max ray tracing.

DLSS looks fine when you stand still, its in motion that it starts to suffer, distance objects too (Legion) get artifacting, and effect details (rain) get lost. I can absolutely see that it is upscaling things, everything gets that slightly smudged vasoline look similar to the early 2000s.

I noticed lots of artifacting and effects issues with DLSS 1 in Metro Exodus and preferred to leave it off along with RT, but I didn't see any of that in Control except for on some specific edges of objects like the tiles when you warp to that other realm with the moving blocks everywhere. So the performance benefit of it more than compensated for any negligible IQ loss to my eyes in that game at least. Seemed to the same case on any DF reviews I've seen on other DLSS 2.0 titles as well. Wolfenstein YB still seems to have the best implementation of it so far, so I was excited to get it on Doom Eternal but for some reason it seems Bethesda just forgot about it despite announcing it would be coming to the game at some point.
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
4,498
I noticed lots of artifacting and effects issues with DLSS 1 in Metro Exodus and preferred to leave it off along with RT, but I didn't see any of that in Control except for on some specific edges of objects like the tiles when you warp to that other realm with the moving blocks everywhere. So the performance benefit of it more than compensated for any negligible IQ loss to my eyes in that game at least. Seemed to the same case on any DF reviews I've seen on other DLSS 2.0 titles as well.
That's kinda the point, this idea that dlss somehow looks better than native, or adds detail, is a fallacy. It works and give fps as needed, it looks good, but it isn't better than native (if you could get the fps needed).
 

NKD

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
8,286
Even if you take which games are played more. The 2 COD games you wont even enable RT because you want the best framerate anyway. Probably in Dirt 5 as well, and maybe MHW. Now the other games sure I can see it since they are SP games.

But totally agree, review for today....not 2 years from now.
fast paced games like racing or shooters there is no reason to enable RT. Because you can't really sit there enjoy the beauty lol. Its hard to tell for me. Games with more of a story line and character building is different. Like AC Valhalla others.
 

Lakados

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
3,029
I have 2 titles that I play that has DLSS, and in both cases, I prefer it on. The only times I see a decrease in quality is when I am standing still and really focusing on a specific edge or texture but when I am moving around and there are explosions or lasers blasting all around me all I see is an improvement in FPS, general fluidity of the gameplay, and lighting effects.
 

T4rd

Fully [H]
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
18,102
That's kinda the point, this idea that dlss somehow looks better than native, or adds detail, is a fallacy. It works and give fps as needed, it looks good, but it isn't better than native (if you could get the fps needed).

It's not a fallacy. I've seen several instances of it, such as in DF's tech analysis of Wolfenstein YB, you can see additional detail gained on distant objects and textures with DLSS over native resolution.


Time coded for your convenience.
 

Sycraft

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
4,793
Go figure, you review a product for today's market, not tomorrows. Who would have thunk?

I mean I think you should do both. For sure you want plenty of today's market stuff but the question of "how will this perform in a year or two" is a valid one that people can well be interested in. I am still running a 1080Ti, and I bought it at launch. So while DX12 and Vulkan were nearly non-existent in games then, it IS relevant to me since I still use it now and we are seeing more and more of those.

Same deal with RT. I won't buy a card because of good RT performance. I currently play 0 games that support it... However there are two games that do support it (Control and Cyberpunk) that I want to play soon and there will probably be more in the future. So RT performance is going to be a consideration.
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
4,498
I mean I think you should do both. For sure you want plenty of today's market stuff but the question of "how will this perform in a year or two" is a valid one that people can well be interested in. I am still running a 1080Ti, and I bought it at launch. So while DX12 and Vulkan were nearly non-existent in games then, it IS relevant to me since I still use it now and we are seeing more and more of those.

Same deal with RT. I won't buy a card because of good RT performance. I currently play 0 games that support it... However there are two games that do support it (Control and Cyberpunk) that I want to play soon and there will probably be more in the future. So RT performance is going to be a consideration.
There are plenty of RT reviews.

It's not a fallacy. I've seen several instances of it, such as in DF's tech analysis of Wolfenstein YB, you can see additional detail gained on distant objects and textures with DLSS over native resolution.


Time coded for your convenience.

I can't take youtube videos images seriously, compression gets in the way. I'm more than happy to check it out, but YB was boring and I dropped it after a few sessions.
 

serpretetsky

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 24, 2008
Messages
1,792
That a big of a misleading presentation, 8 games has RT, 9 has DLSS (and best selling maybe more relevant than review on open critics).
Not sure I understand, you don't like that they are separted into 3 groups in the table? A, B, (A and B) ?
 

T4rd

Fully [H]
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
18,102
I can't take youtube videos images seriously, compression gets in the way. I'm more than happy to check it out, but YB was boring and I dropped it after a few sessions.
That's funny. You can clearly see the difference there regardless of YouTube's compression. It's not a small enough difference that whatever arbitrary bit-rate/resolution video you pick will make the difference any less apparent. Plus you're even disregarding Alex's own observations and commentary on it after playing it himself. But if you really prefer to be wilfully ignorant about it too hold your stance, go ahead.

The game is irrelevant for DLSS tech discussion too; it's virtually the same implementation and effect in other DLSS 2.0 titles.
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
4,498
That's funny. You can clearly see the difference there regardless of YouTube's compression. It's not a small enough difference that whatever arbitrary bit-rate/resolution video you pick will make the difference any less apparent. Plus you're even disregarding Alex's own observations and commentary on it after playing it himself. But if you really prefer to be wilfully ignorant about it too hold your stance, go ahead.

The game is irrelevant for DLSS tech discussion too; it's virtually the same implementation and effect in other DLSS 2.0 titles.

fine, your right I am wrong but don't care to watch a video about it and when/if I experiece it in a game I'll beleive it. happy?

Doesn't add detail in Death Stranding, in fact it removes it, Legion seems to as well.
 

TurboGLH

Gawd
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
663
It's not a fallacy. I've seen several instances of it, such as in DF's tech analysis of Wolfenstein YB, you can see additional detail gained on distant objects and textures with DLSS over native resolution.


Time coded for your convenience.

It's absolutely a fallacy. It compares native resolution with TAA enabled versus DLSS.

DF has done so much harm on this topic by claiming that dlss can have better image quality than native. It's the comparison vs smeary TAA that fools people

There's no situation where upsampling, no matter how well done we'll look better or have more detail than the actual native resolution.

Only when you degrade that native image, can you then give a leg up to DLSS
 

Lakados

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
3,029
It's absolutely a fallacy. It compares native resolution with TAA enabled versus DLSS.

DF has done so much harm on this topic by claiming that dlss can have better image quality than native. It's the comparison vs smeary TAA that fools people

There's no situation where upsampling, no matter how well done we'll look better or have more detail than the actual native resolution.

Only when you degrade that native image, can you then give a leg up to DLSS
In a static image or slow-paced game I 100% agree, but I personally find that in higher FPS or action titles where you don't really get the opportunity to take a detailed look at the surroundings, the game on a cursory glance (not sure if that is the best way of putting it) looks and feels better. But if you stop and smell the roses as it were you can certainly make out the differences but its one of those things that when you are in the thick of it you don't or can't notice so the good tends to outweigh the bad in my experiences. But it is a 100% subjective thing so things I don't see another person might not be able to not see and just drive them batty in the process.
 

TurboGLH

Gawd
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
663
In a static image or slow-paced game I 100% agree, but I personally find that in higher FPS or action titles where you don't really get the opportunity to take a detailed look at the surroundings, the game on a cursory glance (not sure if that is the best way of putting it) looks and feels better. But if you stop and smell the roses as it were you can certainly make out the differences but its one of those things that when you are in the thick of it you don't or can't notice so the good tends to outweigh the bad in my experiences. But it is a 100% subjective thing so things I don't see another person might not be able to not see and just drive them batty in the process.

I 100% believe that. There's a lot of subjectivity to what looks good while stuff is rushing around vs peering at static images.

My biggest issue is the often repeated claim that dlss is better than native. It's just not possible. Is it good enough? Maybe. Is it better than the fps hit to run RT? Almost certainly. But it's taken on this mythical ability to generate detail that wouldn't be there at full res, and it's thanks to DF.
 

LukeTbk

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Messages
402
Not sure I understand, you don't like that they are separted into 3 groups in the table? A, B, (A and B) ?
They can separated and like you say if you seperate it in A, B, and A^B, all the title in A^B should be logically in the A line.

The way the line are actually separated is:
A and not B:
B and not A:
A and B:

But the title are
A:
B:
A and B:
 
Top