NVIDIA - Anti-Competitive, Anti-Consumer, Anti-Technology

Meeho said:
View attachment 81831
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The only whataboutism they have so far seems to be a couple of shills in Anandtech.

"Well if AMD can make a competitive product, I would buy from them."

Just realize it has been alot to do with the practices of nVidia that has got us here. Physix, dx10.1, Hairworks, 3d Mark cheating and others have made it appear that Nvidia was making better and better products over the years. These actions have gained the the upper hand in the market and allowed for them to leverage support from game developers. It has been a snowball effect over the last 20 years or so.
 
SickBeast said:
No. You are enabling them. And I quoted a very credible source. It's not from a "random forum user". The allegations come from the owner of a tech website. But I'm done talking about it with you. I find it frustrating that people are willing to turn a blind eye to AMD's BS.
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This is a topic about Nvidia's BS. AMD's possible wrongdoings have no bearing on it. By bringing it up here, you are the shill you're trying to expose. Open a new topic about AMD's BS if you want to.
 
SickBeast said:
I do have evidence and I have shared it here. However Kyle shut it down and warned me, for whatever reason I don't know.
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Our definitions of "evidence" vary greatly. And we have some very specific rules about users sharing information on other users. That all said, you know I can be reached easily by PM or email should you have concerns.
 
Interesting video, watch the whole flick - good tie in/investigation of information readily available and showing a pattern of behavior which is very consistent. Still the bottom line is, are you going to buy what is best for you or look back 10 years or more to decide your buying decisions? As for Nvidia products one definitely need to do their research to ensure you get what you expect to get. Exposing their practices can help to get pressure on them to clean up their act. Kyle did that with that FU GPP program and help amass a number of groups on the internet to exposed the issue that would hurt us as consumers. Brave and Awesome! Nvidia also has some very cool stuff, great performing stuff and at times the best perf/$ - cannot leave that out of the scale as well. Now if AMD had the same perf/$ product, I would go AMD because they are a better company in general - no saints. Then again if Nvidia has a kick ass no brainer better to get - I will reward them for that.

Been playing Far Cry 5, with the two Vega FEs in Crossfire, great 4K, FreeSync game play. When I do, the 1080Tis (SLI) mine. The cost of GSync monitors make them pointless when I could buy a way better FreeSync monitor for less. The gaming differences at times are so trivial between AMD and Nvidia that the commotion on forums over which one is uber better seems more fanatical than practical.

One can get a $559 Vega 64 at Newegg and a great FreeSync monitor way cheaper than a 1080 and equivalent GSync monitor - Vega 56 cheaper. Both cards compete well for the same price bracket Nvidia has but FreeSync wins out. Unless you already have a GSync monitor of course.
 
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noko said:
Interesting video, watch the whole flick - good tie in/investigation of information readily available and showing a pattern of behavior which is very consistent. Still the bottom line is, are you going to buy what is best for you or look back 10 years or more to decide your buying decisions? As for Nvidia products one definitely need to do their research to ensure you get what you expect to get. Exposing their practices can help to get pressure on them to clean up their act. Kyle did that with that FU GPP program and help amass a number of groups on the internet to exposed the issue that would hurt us as consumers. Brave and Awesome! Nvidia also has some very cool stuff, great performing stuff and at times the best perf/$ - cannot leave that out of the scale as well. Now if AMD had the same perf/$ product, I would go AMD because they are a better company in general - no saints. Then again if Nvidia has a kick ass no brainer better to get - I will reward them for that.
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The problem is not the product it has never been(exception of a few hardware examples) it is how the corporate entity moves around consumers and their competitors
Been playing Far Cry 5, with the two Vega FEs in Crossfire, great 4K, FreeSync game play. When I do, the 1080Tis (SLI) mine. The cost of GSync monitors make them pointless when I could buy a way better FreeSync monitor for less. The gaming differences at times are so trivial between AMD and Nvidia that the commotion on forums over which one is uber better seems more fanatical than practical.

One can get a $559 Vega 64 at Newegg and a great FreeSync monitor way cheaper than a 1080 and equivalent GSync monitor - Vega 56 cheaper. Both cards compete well for the same price bracket Nvidia has but FreeSync wins out. Unless you already have a GSync monitor of course.
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But does that matter if you are playing the game on X or Y as long as you enjoy yourself.
The only trouble is that when you are reviewing a product from Nvidia are you going to state this company practises. How many people will say sure I'll hand over my money and how many bad things corporate Nvidia does that are bad for the consumers does not matter.
And how many people will see that handing over money to Nvidia is the same as encouragement for them to continue their behaviour..
 
Pieter3dnow said:
And how many people will see that handing over money to Nvidia is the same as encouragement for them to continue their behaviour..
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Well, you have to remember that for end consumers (which includes [H] readers and the like, but we're a bit of an exception), end consumers are happy to reward Nvidia for building better, faster, cooler and cheaper products with historically better support and drivers.

When the local zealots start screaming about GPP and declaring their eternal support for AMD, it's hard not to laugh; AMD's products speak for themselves, as do Nvidias (and Intels...).
 
Pieter3dnow said:
The problem is not the product it has never been(exception of a few hardware examples) it is how the corporate entity moves around consumers and their competitors

But does that matter if you are playing the game on X or Y as long as you enjoy yourself.
The only trouble is that when you are reviewing a product from Nvidia are you going to state this company practises. How many people will say sure I'll hand over my money and how many bad things corporate Nvidia does that are bad for the consumers does not matter.
And how many people will see that handing over money to Nvidia is the same as encouragement for them to continue their behaviour..
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Well I had a laptop which failed due to Nvidia bump gate and the company basically went bankrupt while Nvidia for the most part glided through. Reputation and how Nvidia treats their partners and customers can haunt them big time if they continue down their somewhat dark path (so to speak). Also what did Nvidia know before releasing their products to use for self driving cars? While laptop with soldered on GPU's failing is one thing but people dying is another whole new level:
https://www.recode.net/2018/3/27/17168732/uber-fatal-crash-self-driving-nvidia-ducey-toyota
 
noko said:
Well I had a laptop which failed due to Nvidia bump gate and the company basically went bankrupt while Nvidia for the most part glided through. Reputation and how Nvidia treats their partners and customers can haunt them big time if they continue down their somewhat dark path (so to speak). Also what did Nvidia know before releasing their products to use for self driving cars? While laptop with soldered on GPU's failing is one thing but people dying is another whole new level:
https://www.recode.net/2018/3/27/17168732/uber-fatal-crash-self-driving-nvidia-ducey-toyota
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So a crash involving an autonomous car using Nvidia hardware is somehow evidence of Nvidia treating people badly?
 
wizzi01 said:
Why are you waiting for someone else to do the work? Go get the information you desire and make a video about it.
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That's like asking a Chef to perform open heart surgery on a dying patient. Ain't gonna happen.. Not my skill-set...
 
Ieldra said:
So a crash involving an autonomous car using Nvidia hardware is somehow evidence of Nvidia treating people badly?
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Not at all, history of Nvidia practices does lead one to doubt the sincerity of Nvidia product claims. Bump gate, 970 memory . . . . . . Don't read anything more into it other than Nvidia previous dealings can just haunt them justified or not.
 
Factum said:
You got evidence that someone is a paid shill?
Otherwise you are just "poisoning the well"...and trolling.

I look forward to seeing your evidence? :)
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Maybe you can tell me what "Ignore the bleating of sheep and you'll be better off." In reply to a reply to me??? Wait I should have directed that at Montu vice you. Also paid shrills or posters is part of the video and no I have no solid evidence other than previous suspected individuals. How would one determine if one is a paid or compensated Nvidia Shrill is beyond my limited resources here.
 
noko said:
Maybe you can tell me what "Ignore the bleating of sheep and you'll be better off." In reply to a reply to me??? Wait I should have directed that at Montu vice you. Also paid shrills or posters is part of the video and no I have no solid evidence other than previous suspected individuals. How would one determine if one is a paid or compensated Nvidia Shrill is beyond my limited resources here.
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So you have nothing, got it :)

Keep trolling then.
 
Factum said:
So you have nothing, got it :)

Keep trolling then.
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Sadly personal attacks are the trademark of people that do not care what is being discussed nor want to talk about the video just attack people as you demonstrate here:
https://hardforum.com/threads/nvidi...nti-technology.1962524/page-3#post-1043682559
https://hardforum.com/threads/nvidi...nti-technology.1962524/page-3#post-1043682579
https://hardforum.com/threads/nvidi...nti-technology.1962524/page-3#post-1043682594
https://hardforum.com/threads/nvidi...nti-technology.1962524/page-3#post-1043682677
https://hardforum.com/threads/nvidi...nti-technology.1962524/page-4#post-1043682678

And you prove you are not here to debate anything:
https://hardforum.com/threads/nvidi...nti-technology.1962524/page-4#post-1043683354


So explain it again please either we are all here to troll you or the opposite is true. I linked the messages where you just don't care to discuss the Nvidia video you know tell us these are all lies you just smear Adoredtv well try to.
 
noko said:
Not at all, history of Nvidia practices does lead one to doubt the sincerity of Nvidia product claims. Bump gate, 970 memory . . . . . . Don't read anything more into it other than Nvidia previous dealings can just haunt them justified or not.
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I mean, 970 memory was technically correct, if anything the misrepresented cache and rop configuration was the issue but we can gloss over that. I don't see how this has had any bearing whatsoever on their other products ? When were false claims made ? This is often brought up by AdoredTV and the community he caters to, but I don't see them complaining about this for example
Zjd8kZF.jpg


Or that bullshit Dual Vega Prey demo that was run to obfuscate the performance and make it seem like it was competing at the top end, yes you can argue that marketing bullshit has pretty much taken center stage in the industry at this point but there is a concerted effort by a large group of users (here and elsewhere) that appears to be zealously pursuing portraying NV as Satan and AMD as Jesus and it's quite jarring to see people who subscribe to this view ramble on about paid shills and entrenched biases when they are about as reasonable as an ISIS member. Surely the problem is paid shills and not clickbait controversy-seeking drama queens like AdoredTV and his ilk.


Also worth mentioning AMD released a video card (the RX480) that failed to meet PCI-SIG's electrical specifications, denied this failure to comply with the standard, and purged all posts initially made about this from their own official forums, something that also happened on the "independent" r/AMD subreddit. It would not be unreasonable to assume they were involved in suppressing this information on reddit as well, but it is absolutely unreasonable for me to claim it is so because their past behavior points to it. These people are here to make money, they don't give a fuck about you, or ethics, or "gaming".
 
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Ieldra said:
I mean, 970 memory was technically correct, if anything the misrepresented cache and rop configuration was the issue but we can gloss over that. I don't see how this has had any bearing whatsoever on their other products ? When were false claims made ? This is often brought up by AdoredTV and the community he caters to, but I don't see them complaining about this for example
View attachment 82239

Or that bullshit Dual Vega Prey demo that was run to obfuscate the performance and make it seem like it was competing at the top end, yes you can argue that marketing bullshit has pretty much taken center stage in the industry at this point but there is a concerted effort by a large group of users (here and elsewhere) that appears to be zealously pursuing portraying NV as Satan and AMD as Jesus and it's quite jarring to see people who subscribe to this view ramble on about paid shills and entrenched biases when they are about as reasonable as an ISIS member. Surely the problem is paid shills and not clickbait controversy-seeking drama queens like AdoredTV and his ilk.


Also worth mentioning AMD released a video card (the RX480) that failed to meet PCI-SIG's electrical specifications, denied this failure to comply with the standard, and purged all posts initially made about this from their own official forums, something that also happened on the "independent" r/AMD subreddit. It would not be unreasonable to assume they were involved in suppressing this information on reddit as well, but it is absolutely unreasonable for me to claim it is so because their past behavior points to it. These people are here to make money, they don't give a fuck about you, or ethics, or "gaming".
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Still a bunch of whataboutism. I conclude you find the topical video factual.
 
Meeho said:
Still a bunch of whataboutism.
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Not at all, just pointing out the hypocrisy in your (collective) arguments. NV is evil and they price-gouged their customers with the 10 series, selling midrange chips for high end prices ! Wait for AMD to teach them how to do business... Two years later... Vega... 1080 performance... 1080 price. I find you people hilarious.
 
heatlesssun said:
If they are known issues it shouldn't be that hard to name one specifically, just curious. I drive my 1080 Tis pretty hard across 4k and VR gaming and for the money they've been fantastic. I'm not trying to sell a GPU either, it's simply a fact that the 1080 Ti is a kick ass gaming card and when it comes to VR especially AMD's got nothing close currently. Again, we need competition.
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My issues have nothing to do with speed, again, I don't need tech support mate. I have everything from multi monitor issues to power state issues to simply driver crash and hard freeze issues based on specific software or combinations. I have other GPU's in the house, used in this system, that do not suffer this problem. Yet all 3 of my 10 series do this. These cards and Nvidia is far from the perfect little angel everyone makes it out to be. I've used both companies for ages and Frankly have had more severe issues with Nvidia than AMD, though, admittedly, though more severe, typically not as often but not always the case, especially lately.
 
Ieldra said:
Not at all, just pointing out the hypocrisy in your (collective) arguments. NV is evil and they price-gouged their customers with the 10 series, selling midrange chips for high end prices ! Wait for AMD to teach them how to do business... Two years later... Vega... 1080 performance... 1080 price. I find you people hilarious.
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Where is the hypocrisy? Not mentioning companies that aren't featured in the video being discussed? Not excusing shady shit because "look over there, a three headed monkey did something too"? Your fanboyism is showing.
 
Pieter3dnow said:
Sadly personal attacks are the trademark of people that do not care what is being discussed nor want to talk about the video just attack people as you demonstrate here:
https://hardforum.com/threads/nvidi...nti-technology.1962524/page-3#post-1043682559
https://hardforum.com/threads/nvidi...nti-technology.1962524/page-3#post-1043682579
https://hardforum.com/threads/nvidi...nti-technology.1962524/page-3#post-1043682594
https://hardforum.com/threads/nvidi...nti-technology.1962524/page-3#post-1043682677
https://hardforum.com/threads/nvidi...nti-technology.1962524/page-4#post-1043682678

And you prove you are not here to debate anything:
https://hardforum.com/threads/nvidi...nti-technology.1962524/page-4#post-1043683354


So explain it again please either we are all here to troll you or the opposite is true. I linked the messages where you just don't care to discuss the Nvidia video you know tell us these are all lies you just smear Adoredtv well try to.
Click to expand...

Care to point out any evidence for paid shilling?
Because all I sense from you is anger+buthurt?
 
Vercinaigh said:
My issues have nothing to do with speed, again, I don't need tech support mate. I have everything from multi monitor issues to power state issues to simply driver crash and hard freeze issues based on specific software or combinations. I have other GPU's in the house, used in this system, that do not suffer this problem. Yet all 3 of my 10 series do this. These cards and Nvidia is far from the perfect little angel everyone makes it out to be. I've used both companies for ages and Frankly have had more severe issues with Nvidia than AMD, though, admittedly, though more severe, typically not as often but not always the case, especially lately.
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Thanks, like I said I was just curious. Obviously different folks will have different experiences even with the same parts depending on their setups. I'm not experiencing these issues with my multiple monitors and VR HMDs so I wouldn't have much personal insight into these issues anyway.

Stuff this complex is always going to have issues and I'm not claiming that nVidia is by any stretch perfect. But I've had my 1080 Ti FEs cards since launch last year and paid MSRP for them. At $700 AMD has nothing that really challenges the 1080 Ti for 4k and VR. And there are a number of reviews even on [H] that have made that point especially with 4k gaming.
 
On the shill thing. I can see how that could be dangerous in some more mainstream public medium. You know, where people have no idea about the products they might buy. Personally I see those "Articles" that are really paid advertisements (printed in tiny letters) as more dangerous than shills.

It's a shitty, stupid practice of course, and I'm not excusing any company for doing it. However:

Is ANYONE on a site like [H] REALLY afraid of shills? Seriously, the people here are some of the most informed users of technology around, and quite capable of informing themselves beyond what a random 5-post shill might say on a forum like this. I don't wish misfortune on anyone, but if you can't do a little bit of research before buying a product, and be reasonably sure it's the product for you, you ALMOST deserve for it not to be. This doesn't apply to grandma and grandpa, this applies to reasonably up-to-date, intelligent consumers of specialized technology. Meaning someone that would visit this site. Is some shill going to change your opinion on a product that you'd be interested in? Really?

If anyone on this site has made a purchasing error due specifically to a paid shill, I double-dog-dare you to come forward.

:p
 
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Vercinaigh said:
My issues have nothing to do with speed, again, I don't need tech support mate. I have everything from multi monitor issues to power state issues to simply driver crash and hard freeze issues based on specific software or combinations. I have other GPU's in the house, used in this system, that do not suffer this problem. Yet all 3 of my 10 series do this. These cards and Nvidia is far from the perfect little angel everyone makes it out to be. I've used both companies for ages and Frankly have had more severe issues with Nvidia than AMD, though, admittedly, though more severe, typically not as often but not always the case, especially lately.
Click to expand...

I recommend sorting your issues out before broad-brushing a vendor with them. There are whole forums for this that would be a better use of your time, which would get you closer to actually using your equipment instead of complaining about how you're having trouble that you cannot pin down ;).
 
IdiotInCharge said:
I recommend sorting your issues out before broad-brushing a vendor with them. There are whole forums for this that would be a better use of your time, which would get you closer to actually using your equipment instead of complaining about how you're having trouble that you cannot pin down ;).
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In this type of discussion where we're talking about everything from product quality to shilling I think it's important to be specific when questioning a product's quality. Not in the context of looking for technical assistance, he wasn't asking and I wasn't offering and that's fine. And there's just going to be those times where maybe both sides are correct. If he's having issues with the 1080 Ti then that's what it is. I've have mine for 15 months and again at $700 what comes close to these things for my use cases? The performance of these cards has been well documented for 15 months they have always been better at 4k and VR than anything from AMD. And that too is what it is.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
I recommend sorting your issues out before broad-brushing a vendor with them. There are whole forums for this that would be a better use of your time, which would get you closer to actually using your equipment instead of complaining about how you're having trouble that you cannot pin down ;).
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Pretty sure I have enough GPU history to broad stroke whatever I like based on my experience like anyone else, thanks for your concern and suggestion, I'll place that in the bin of "who the f cares" and continue to participate as I please. Especially since the conversation was started legitimately and didn't actually have anything to do with you.
 
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Vercinaigh said:
My issues have nothing to do with speed, again, I don't need tech support mate. I have everything from multi monitor issues to power state issues to simply driver crash and hard freeze issues based on specific software or combinations. I have other GPU's in the house, used in this system, that do not suffer this problem. Yet all 3 of my 10 series do this. These cards and Nvidia is far from the perfect little angel everyone makes it out to be. I've used both companies for ages and Frankly have had more severe issues with Nvidia than AMD, though, admittedly, though more severe, typically not as often but not always the case, especially lately.
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Try the 385.41 drivers. I had GPU crashing on some applications that was driving me crazy. I saw a reddit post of the same thing, some guy tested it and that said that was the last version without the problem. Cleared up my situation at least.
 
tetris42 said:
Try the 385.41 drivers. I had GPU crashing on some applications that was driving me crazy. I saw a reddit post of the same thing, some guy tested it and that said that was the last version without the problem. Cleared up my situation at least.
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I think I did, but could always try again.
 
Vercinaigh said:
Pretty sure I have enough GPU history to broad stroke whatever I like based on my experience like anyone else, thanks for your concern and suggestion, I'll place that in the bin of "who the f cares" and continue to participate as I please. Especially since the conversation was started legitimately and didn't actually have anything to do with you.
Click to expand...

This was addressed to the topic, and what I responded to:

Vercinaigh said:
These cards and Nvidia is far from the perfect little angel everyone makes it out to be. I've used both companies for ages and Frankly have had more severe issues with Nvidia than AMD, though, admittedly, though more severe, typically not as often but not always the case, especially lately.
Click to expand...

'Nvidia is far from the perfect little angel everyone makes it out to be'

First, who is making Nvidia out to be a perfect little angel?

Second, you're talking about a personal problem and then applying it broadly. I'm not saying that you're not having an issue, but it doesn't really apply to the topic if you cannot show that it is pervasive.
 
AdoredTV has a specific market. That market are his Patreon supporters at /r/AMD and in the ATI/AMD *enthusiast* echo chamber. This video is heavily slanted - the events happened, the reasons and actors may not be those indicated. I'm not gonna watch the video again, the once last week was enough to hurt my brain. It's funny to see so many of the same characters from the last Nvidia is eeevil and must be punished thread...

Nvidia didn't kill 3dfx. 3dfx killed themselves by merging with STB and releasing nothing more than promises and fairy farts while ATI and Nvidia had new product on the shelf. The sad part about the bankruptcy is that they had A1 silicon for Rampage in house and running before the layoffs. Fun tidbit - STB had been Nvidia's largest customer. The STB acquisition was an attempt to strangle Nvidia. Not only did the new 3dfx fail to produce their own cards, it had the side effect of pushing 3dfx's former board partners into the arms of Nvidia.

Almost everything in this thing is like that. Yes, 3dfx went bankrupt. Yes, Nvidia ended up with their IP and a lot of their engineers. No, Nvidia didn't kill them. It's all close, but slightly off... pernicious. If I ever run for office I should hire this guy to run adds against the competition.

Nvidia didn't kill the Kyro and Imagination Technologies. Imagination just failed to compete. 3dfx, ATI and NVIDIA were all using rudimentary occlusion culling and z-buffer compression by the time the Kyro II dropped, without a T&L engine. Even the S3 Savage 2000 had a T&L engine. Yet, Kyro lives on, the root Kyro tech is great in low power applications - if you've an Intel Atom, Apple or MediaTek cpu, you're probably running a Kyro descendant. AdoredTV didn't even mention the missing geometry and textures you regularly ran into running something other than the standard benchmark games. (Source - my own personal Kyro II.)

S3 fizzled after their merger with Diamond. It's almost like merging two companies is hard. Look at the hit AMD and the RTG took. Last time they beat Nvidia to market was what, the 7970? S3's demise had nothing to do with the cross licensing deal with Nvidia and everything to do with the product they brought to market. (I had a Savage2000 too, another card that had issues once you got away from Quake3 and the like.)

I miss the graphics war of the late 90s/early 2000s. Bloody nasty business.

3dfx (All the good bits were acquired by Nvidia)
Matrox (Still independent, what do they even do? Capture cards and stuff based on the g400? Still?)
S3 (Graphics group picked up by Via, then eventually HTC)
ArtX (Acquired by ATI)
Rendition (Acquired by Micron)
SiS (They make SSDs and touchscreens now)
3DLabs (Acquired by Creative, sold to Intel as ZiiLABS)
#9 (Acquired by S3)
Bitboys Oy (Acquired by ATI. Sold by AMD to Qualcomm. Not that they ever really competed in the space, but the Glaze3d press releases were SO good. Right?)

It's all so boring now...
 
Vercinaigh three Pascal systems with stability issues? Do you have shit power in your neighborhood? I've (luckily?) not had such issues. I mainly play VR, lately a bunch of Far Cry 5 and Shadow of War too.

I haven't seen a crash this year other than a 10Gb NIC I was trying to run on Win10 with Server 2008 drivers. (Remember kids - Mellanox for Windows, Chelsio for BSD.)
 
Decibel said:
AdoredTV has a specific market. That market are his Patreon supporters at /r/AMD and in the ATI/AMD *enthusiast* echo chamber. This video is heavily slanted - the events happened, the reasons and actors may not be those indicated. I'm not gonna watch the video again, the once last week was enough to hurt my brain. It's funny to see so many of the same characters from the last Nvidia is eeevil and must be punished thread...

Nvidia didn't kill 3dfx. 3dfx killed themselves by merging with STB and releasing nothing more than promises and fairy farts while ATI and Nvidia had new product on the shelf. The sad part about the bankruptcy is that they had A1 silicon for Rampage in house and running before the layoffs. Fun tidbit - STB had been Nvidia's largest customer. The STB acquisition was an attempt to strangle Nvidia. Not only did the new 3dfx fail to produce their own cards, it had the side effect of pushing 3dfx's former board partners into the arms of Nvidia.

Almost everything in this thing is like that. Yes, 3dfx went bankrupt. Yes, Nvidia ended up with their IP and a lot of their engineers. No, Nvidia didn't kill them. It's all close, but slightly off... pernicious. If I ever run for office I should hire this guy to run adds against the competition.

Nvidia didn't kill the Kyro and Imagination Technologies. Imagination just failed to compete. 3dfx, ATI and NVIDIA were all using rudimentary occlusion culling and z-buffer compression by the time the Kyro II dropped, without a T&L engine. Even the S3 Savage 2000 had a T&L engine. Yet, Kyro lives on, the root Kyro tech is great in low power applications - if you've an Intel Atom, Apple or MediaTek cpu, you're probably running a Kyro descendant. AdoredTV didn't even mention the missing geometry and textures you regularly ran into running something other than the standard benchmark games. (Source - my own personal Kyro II.)

S3 fizzled after their merger with Diamond. It's almost like merging two companies is hard. Look at the hit AMD and the RTG took. Last time they beat Nvidia to market was what, the 7970? S3's demise had nothing to do with the cross licensing deal with Nvidia and everything to do with the product they brought to market. (I had a Savage2000 too, another card that had issues once you got away from Quake3 and the like.)

I miss the graphics war of the late 90s/early 2000s. Bloody nasty business.

3dfx (All the good bits were acquired by Nvidia)
Matrox (Still independent, what do they even do? Capture cards and stuff based on the g400? Still?)
S3 (Graphics group picked up by Via, then eventually HTC)
ArtX (Acquired by ATI)
Rendition (Acquired by Micron)
SiS (They make SSDs and touchscreens now)
3DLabs (Acquired by Creative, sold to Intel as ZiiLABS)
#9 (Acquired by S3)
Bitboys Oy (Acquired by ATI. Sold by AMD to Qualcomm. Not that they ever really competed in the space, but the Glaze3d press releases were SO good. Right?)

It's all so boring now...
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Nice post and very accurate as I remember things. I worked in a hardware compatibility lab through those years, and had my hands on all of it. Like pretty much every card that was out between 96 and 2001.

I had forgotten about the STB merger. I remember the results of it, but had forgotten that was how it played out. I just remember how all of the cards were basically faster versions or more chips on a card than the previous, but with nearly identical rendering features as they had since V1 and V2. The Banshee, pretty much paled next to a Riva+V2 setup. The 3000 series was decent, but compared to the TNT series, paled a bit again. The performance was there, but not features. By the time the GeForce series came out it was like 3DF-who?
 
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Decibel said:
Vercinaigh three Pascal systems with stability issues? Do you have shit power in your neighborhood? I've (luckily?) not had such issues. I mainly play VR, lately a bunch of Far Cry 5 and Shadow of War too.

I haven't seen a crash this year other than a 10Gb NIC I was trying to run on Win10 with Server 2008 drivers. (Remember kids - Mellanox for Windows, Chelsio for BSD.)
Click to expand...
These are not hardware stability issues, it's driver.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
This was addressed to the topic, and what I responded to:



'Nvidia is far from the perfect little angel everyone makes it out to be'

First, who is making Nvidia out to be a perfect little angel?

Second, you're talking about a personal problem and then applying it broadly. I'm not saying that you're not having an issue, but it doesn't really apply to the topic if you cannot show that it is pervasive.
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Whatever makes you feel better mate, standing firm.
 
oh and the FuryX having a bad time...no. Things blow of proportion and I for one can attest for the furyX but maybe I play games too old for this crowd

all the fud is bullshit. My experience is it gets hot but living in a seasonal country it doesn't matter.
 
Decibel said:
AdoredTV has a specific market. That market are his Patreon supporters at /r/AMD and in the ATI/AMD *enthusiast* echo chamber. This video is heavily slanted - the events happened, the reasons and actors may not be those indicated. I'm not gonna watch the video again, the once last week was enough to hurt my brain. It's funny to see so many of the same characters from the last Nvidia is eeevil and must be punished thread...

Nvidia didn't kill 3dfx. 3dfx killed themselves by merging with STB and releasing nothing more than promises and fairy farts while ATI and Nvidia had new product on the shelf. The sad part about the bankruptcy is that they had A1 silicon for Rampage in house and running before the layoffs. Fun tidbit - STB had been Nvidia's largest customer. The STB acquisition was an attempt to strangle Nvidia. Not only did the new 3dfx fail to produce their own cards, it had the side effect of pushing 3dfx's former board partners into the arms of Nvidia.

Almost everything in this thing is like that. Yes, 3dfx went bankrupt. Yes, Nvidia ended up with their IP and a lot of their engineers. No, Nvidia didn't kill them. It's all close, but slightly off... pernicious. If I ever run for office I should hire this guy to run adds against the competition.

Nvidia didn't kill the Kyro and Imagination Technologies. Imagination just failed to compete. 3dfx, ATI and NVIDIA were all using rudimentary occlusion culling and z-buffer compression by the time the Kyro II dropped, without a T&L engine. Even the S3 Savage 2000 had a T&L engine. Yet, Kyro lives on, the root Kyro tech is great in low power applications - if you've an Intel Atom, Apple or MediaTek cpu, you're probably running a Kyro descendant. AdoredTV didn't even mention the missing geometry and textures you regularly ran into running something other than the standard benchmark games. (Source - my own personal Kyro II.)

S3 fizzled after their merger with Diamond. It's almost like merging two companies is hard. Look at the hit AMD and the RTG took. Last time they beat Nvidia to market was what, the 7970? S3's demise had nothing to do with the cross licensing deal with Nvidia and everything to do with the product they brought to market. (I had a Savage2000 too, another card that had issues once you got away from Quake3 and the like.)

I miss the graphics war of the late 90s/early 2000s. Bloody nasty business.

3dfx (All the good bits were acquired by Nvidia)
Matrox (Still independent, what do they even do? Capture cards and stuff based on the g400? Still?)
S3 (Graphics group picked up by Via, then eventually HTC)
ArtX (Acquired by ATI)
Rendition (Acquired by Micron)
SiS (They make SSDs and touchscreens now)
3DLabs (Acquired by Creative, sold to Intel as ZiiLABS)
#9 (Acquired by S3)
Bitboys Oy (Acquired by ATI. Sold by AMD to Qualcomm. Not that they ever really competed in the space, but the Glaze3d press releases were SO good. Right?)

It's all so boring now...
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While Rampage was pretty much done, I don't think it would have saved 3dfx. And apparently it wasn't even good enough for nvidia to use any of its technololy into their own cards. In fact AFAIK about the only thing nvidia used from 3dfx was the SLI name and the engineering team.

I missed the oportunity to go to STBs Juarez factory while on a business trip, soon after, 3dfx died.

BTW intel is missing from the list. I had an i740 and it was quite capable, and I think there's someone else I can't remember the name.
 
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