NTSB: Tesla Autopilot Played a Role in 2016 Fatal Crash

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by Megalith, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

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    Yesterday, Bloomberg reported that the investigative staff of the US National Transportation Safety Board would recommend that Tesla’s Autopilot system be declared a contributing factor in the fatal Florida crash between a Model S and truck. The latest tweets from NTSB confirm this decision: the board is partly blaming Tesla’s Autopilot system for the accident, having determined that the Autopilot’s “operational limitations played a role” in the crash even though it “functioned as designed.”

    ...it allowed the driver to go for long periods without steering or apparently even looking at the road, according to a person briefed on the findings. The safety board’s findings and recommendations could have broad implications for how self-driving technology is phased in on vehicles and trucks, and it comes as Congress is debating legislation to spur autonomous vehicle systems. Tech and auto companies are pouring billions of dollars into a race to develop self-driving vehicles, which carmakers from Tesla to Volvo Cars say could be deployed in less than 10 years.
     
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  2. captaindiptoad

    captaindiptoad Limp Gawd

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    “operational limitations played a role” in the crash even though it “functioned as designed.”

    Shiut like this pisses me off to no end...
     
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  3. ianken

    ianken [H]ard|Gawd

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    Actual Tesla owner here.

    The car nags you to keep hands on wheel and to be ready to "take control at any time." Anyone who's used AP knows that it has limits.

    There are two main features: traffic aware cruise control, which is pretty great and "auto steer" which will try to fucking kill you if you don't understand its limits.

    It's great for a lot of things, but it's at best an assistant.

    Edit: holy crap. I can edit!
     
  4. gxp500

    gxp500 Limp Gawd

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    Could of swore before you could drive for like 5 minutes before it nagged you, then they updated it and nag nag nag.
     
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  5. bigdogchris

    bigdogchris Wii was a Novelty

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    I figured auto pilot was just a fancy cruise control that kept you going straight and used adaptive speed to adjust to flow of traffic. Hands still need to be on the wheel.
     
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  6. Croak

    Croak [H]ard|Gawd

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    That's about as stupid as blaming a performance (or any, really) auto maker for having ample acceleration capabilities when a driver wipes out when having the pedal to the floor.

    It was the driver's fault, not the Tesla's. Note the word "driver", and not "control seat occupant".
     
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  7. Jim Kim

    Jim Kim [H]ard|Gawd

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    This is a huge blow to Tesla.
    Expect the Civil trial to be announced any day now.
     
  8. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    This is like blaming basic cruise control for a crash because the drive decided to take a nap after engaging it.
     
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  9. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d [H]ardForum Junkie

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  10. M76

    M76 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I bet wheels also played a role in the crash. If it wasn't for those evil contraptions he would still be alive today!

     
  11. Kalabalana

    Kalabalana [H]ard|Gawd

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    This reeks of corporate influence.
    I wonder who did this, Ford, Honda, Mercedes?
    Who greased the pockets in this smear opportunity?
     
  12. Verge

    Verge [H]ardness Supreme

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    Definition of "cruise control" is different than definition of "auto pilot."

    "a device for keeping an aircraft on a set course without the intervention of the pilot."


    Tesla is the one's who insist on calling it auto pilot... they deserve to get sued for however much people choose.
     
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  13. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Probably would have ridden his horse off a cliff.
     
  14. RayderR6

    RayderR6 Limp Gawd

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  15. nysmo

    nysmo Gawd

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    It sucks because the Tesla under normal circumstances actually would have avoided this crash despite the owner disregarding proper usage. The Tesla t-boned an 18 wheeler trailer rig because it didnt see it. Normally it would see such a thing and have actually saved this idiots life. So I guess therein lies the blame? It didnt do something it was supposed to do, even though the driver did absolutely nothing he was supposed to do.
     
  16. jpm100

    jpm100 [H]ardness Supreme

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    You think that never happened? The 'blame the customer' thing would get any other automaker an automatic public relations disaster.
     
  17. krotch

    krotch [H]ardness Supreme

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    Didn't hear that much about Nissan, when they blamed GTR owners for breaking transmissions, using the built-in launch control. Oh, Nissan was definitely sued over it, but wasn't all big news or anything.
     
  18. Wierdo

    Wierdo [H]ard|Gawd

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    A bit sensationalist there imho: The NTSB actually says it's the driver's fault, but that Tesla should technically share some of the blame for not making the system more idiot proof. There's a slight difference there.

    TL/DR: Make something idiot proof and someone will invent a better idiot.

    Tesla had to dumb down the feature so it nags drivers harder, even going as far as disabling auto-pilot features after a few strikes. Why? Because someone wanted to watch a Disney move for half an hour without looking at the road and while ignoring the constant warnings.


    That's exactly what the car did, there will still be scenarios where autopilot would not cut it. Those planes still crash into mountains every now and then, that's why they don't fly them without a pilot yet either.

    They still improve these systems all the time so at some point we may need neither driver nor pilot, but autopilot is not quite there yet.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  19. BigJayDogg3

    BigJayDogg3 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Because nobody died over it, and it wasn't as high profile a vehicle. My car ignorant GF knows Tesla and wants one. She couldn't give two fucks about a GTR. Assuming GTRs don't start catching fire, or unintentionally accelerating into stuff, nobody's going to care about a glass transmission.

    And enthusiasts absolutely lampooned Nissan over that.
     
  20. krotch

    krotch [H]ardness Supreme

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    Lots of people have died in a GTR R35. No one cares, cause it's driver mistake. The same thing as the idiot in the Tesla. It is a high profile vehicle, it's just not as high profile as a Tesla. It's simply the "everyone wants one, so I want one" factor. Why your car ignorant GF wants one, but ask her to tell you more about the cars, she'd probably be clueless. Just wants one, cause everyone else wants one.

    All cars catch fires. More so than Teslas. Including the GTR, which has caught fire plenty of times. Same with "unintentionally" accelerating into stuff. Not that it's ever the car actually doing it, just stupid drivers doing it.

    Enthusiasts of course were mad at Nissan over it, yet. Still continue buying them. Still continue ranting and raving about good the car is.
     
  21. Verge

    Verge [H]ardness Supreme

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    Show me the last instance of autopilot crashing into a mountain? You just pulled that out of your arse.
     
  22. jpm100

    jpm100 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Geez I wonder where people get the impression
    How'd the suit end? Nissan having to give warranty coverage for the transmissions. Not exactly sure its the same kind of problem but Nissan didn't just walk away either.
     
  23. Wierdo

    Wierdo [H]ard|Gawd

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    You could have just googled it you know.

    Examples:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Inter_Flight_148
    https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-strangest-airplane-accidents-incidents
    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn27238-germanwings-crash-why-did-jet-descend-into-ravine/

    The point is autopilot on planes is not a set it and forget it thing, at least not yet, you still need a reasonably responsible person behind the wheel.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  24. Lifelite

    Lifelite [H]ard|Gawd

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    Next step, if you don't grab the wheel, the car is just going to pull over and stop until you take over again.
     
  25. Wierdo

    Wierdo [H]ard|Gawd

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    That is actually close to one of the changes due to this incident yes, it's unfortunate but allowing personal responsibility vs getting bad PR is a losing battle these days.
     
  26. ianken

    ianken [H]ard|Gawd

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    That may be the case. I added AP post purchase.
     
  27. ianken

    ianken [H]ard|Gawd

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    LOL. Can you cite an instance of unintentional acceleration that was not, in reality, the newb owner blaming the car for their own stupidity?

    As to fire, the term car-b-q predates Tesla by decades. I've awoken plenty of times to the traffic news "I5 through Seattle is block in both directions due to a car fire in the right hand lane."
     
  28. BigJayDogg3

    BigJayDogg3 [H]ard|Gawd

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    This post isn't even worthy of a response. Good day, sir.
     
  29. Lifelite

    Lifelite [H]ard|Gawd

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    Because people are fucking stupid.
     
  30. SeaFoam

    SeaFoam [H]ardness Supreme

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    This is fucking retarded. Asshole wasn't paying attention.

    Fuck you NTSB.