NSA’s Top Talent Is Leaving: Low Pay, Slumping Morale, Unpopular Reorganization

Megalith

Megalith

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The NSA’s most skilled personnel, which include people responsible for protecting classified networks and collecting and analyzing intelligence that goes into the president’s daily briefing, are leaving for higher-paying, more flexible jobs in the private sector. Some groups within the agency have already lost almost half of their staffs.

“Some synonym of the word ‘epidemic’ is the best way to describe it,” said Ellison Anne Williams, a former senior researcher at the NSA who left in 2016 to start her own data-security firm, Enveil. More than 10 of her employees also came from the NSA, she said. “The agency is losing an amazing amount of its strongest technical talent, and to lose your best and brightest staff is a huge hit.”
 
Having been a member of a couple national labs since the early 1970s so this isn't surprising at all. Days when Nobel laureates worked at our government institutes is long gone. Congress has cut funding to the point that top graduates don't even bother to look. FAR better salaries and chances of professional growth are in industry. Of course congressional salaries might not be sky high but most seem to be millionaires after awhile.....wonder how that happens?
 
deeppow said:
spintroniX,
Replacements aren't prevented. They'll just be less capable folks and national capabilities will slowly go downhill.
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You won’t be able to talk sense into some people, they really need to take off thier tin foil hat and stop thinking big brother is out to get them.
 
It's to be expected, the pay for top tech talent in government is laughable and yet the right wing thinks every government worker is useless and overpaid. Yet they work in the highest cost of living areas (DC Metro in this case) have PHDs and yet quote median income from nowhere Alabama as justification.
 
Unpopular reorganization? I thought it was just an unpopular organization in general after national hero/patriot Edward Snowden leaked the truth to American citizens, and later again Reality Winner leaking suppressed evidence of 2016's election hacks. Must be hard for good Americans to want to work for such an organization that betrays the constitution, Americans rights, and it's democracy.
 
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Design1stcode2nd said:
It's to be expected, the pay for top tech talent in government is laughable and yet the right wing thinks every government worker is useless and overpaid. Yet they work in the highest cost of living areas (DC Metro in this case) have PHDs and yet quote median income from nowhere Alabama as justification.
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Do you always start making things up from the moment you start speaking , or did you reserve this load of bullshit and exaggerations for this post?

" the right wing thinks every government worker is useless and overpaid"

The CBO reported that all federal government employees with a Bachelors (the most common degree in the Federal workforce) or less are paid more, in some cases approaching 40%, than their private sector counterparts. With extensive benefits and second to none job security, wages should be less than they are in the riskier private sector. People with advanced degrees make slightly less than their private sector counterparts, thanks largely to the exploding salaries in academia.

Meanwhile, you, a believer in government-as-daddy, like most socialists, believe all resources belong to the omnipotent and benevolent government incapable of being wasteful, and any earnings citizens and private are permitted to keep is a gift.

The government is bloated, inefficient, and the worst part of all, insulated from their mistakes. Unlike a business or individual that pays a price for their errors and is forced to change course, the government does not.
 
All part of the dissolving plan of world governments to turn everything into a corporate world with private enterprise controls over the people. Therefore, the people will not be able to vote for leaders, they're too stupid and fall for the bullshit propaganda anyway.

Remember people, "governments" are supposed to be us, they have been taken over by corporations and made to fail in favor of private enterprise running the show (GlowingGhoul's comment has his opinion on this perfectly positioned as to what they want).
 
GlowingGhoul said:
Do you always start making things up from the moment you start speaking , or did you reserve this load of bullshit and exaggerations for this post?

" the right wing thinks every government worker is useless and overpaid"

The CBO reported that all federal government employees with a Bachelors (the most common degree in the Federal workforce) or less are paid more, in some cases approaching 40%, than their private sector counterparts. With extensive benefits and second to none job security, wages should be less than they are in the riskier private sector. People with advanced degrees make slightly less than their private sector counterparts, thanks largely to the exploding salaries in academia.

Meanwhile, you, a believer in government-as-daddy, like most socialists, believe all resources belong to the omnipotent and benevolent government incapable of being wasteful, and any earnings citizens and private are permitted to keep is a gift.

The government is bloated, inefficient, and the worst part of all, insulated from their mistakes. Unlike a business or individual that pays a price for their errors and is forced to change course, the government does not.
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I'm not going to waste my breath trying to correct all of the fallacies in your argument, so let's pick the low hanging fruit. Businesses aren't insulated from their mistakes? Did you miss the great recession and the whole "too big to fail" incident? Also, since when is any major industry with near monopolistic powers (airlines, cable companies, etc.) responsive to their customers any longer?
 
GlowingGhoul said:
Do you always start making things up from the moment you start speaking , or did you reserve this load of bullshit and exaggerations for this post?

" the right wing thinks every government worker is useless and overpaid"

The CBO reported that all federal government employees with a Bachelors (the most common degree in the Federal workforce) or less are paid more, in some cases approaching 40%, than their private sector counterparts. With extensive benefits and second to none job security, wages should be less than they are in the riskier private sector. People with advanced degrees make slightly less than their private sector counterparts, thanks largely to the exploding salaries in academia.

Meanwhile, you, a believer in government-as-daddy, like most socialists, believe all resources belong to the omnipotent and benevolent government incapable of being wasteful, and any earnings citizens and private are permitted to keep is a gift.

The government is bloated, inefficient, and the worst part of all, insulated from their mistakes. Unlike a business or individual that pays a price for their errors and is forced to change course, the government does not.
Click to expand...

You're the last person who should claim anyone "always start making things up from the moment you start speaking , or did you reserve this load of bullshit and exaggerations for this post".

Trump Wants Postal Service to Charge “Much More” for Amazon Shipments


Something something kettles, glasshouses, and stones...
 
GlowingGhoul said:
Do you always start making things up from the moment you start speaking , or did you reserve this load of bullshit and exaggerations for this post?

" the right wing thinks every government worker is useless and overpaid"

The CBO reported that all federal government employees with a Bachelors (the most common degree in the Federal workforce) or less are paid more, in some cases approaching 40%, than their private sector counterparts. With extensive benefits and second to none job security, wages should be less than they are in the riskier private sector. People with advanced degrees make slightly less than their private sector counterparts, thanks largely to the exploding salaries in academia.

Meanwhile, you, a believer in government-as-daddy, like most socialists, believe all resources belong to the omnipotent and benevolent government incapable of being wasteful, and any earnings citizens and private are permitted to keep is a gift.

The government is bloated, inefficient, and the worst part of all, insulated from their mistakes. Unlike a business or individual that pays a price for their errors and is forced to change course, the government does not.
Click to expand...

I assume this is the data you are referring to: https://www.cbo.gov/publication/42921

46% number is only benefits for bachelor degrees, total compensation is 15% higher. 36% higher total for highschool education though...

While I understand you were "triggered" by his right wing comment, that impression is a common understanding whether true or not. Sorta like how foreign cars STILL are considered more reliable when companies like Ford have caught up in the reliability area (for a while now)

IMO a link and just a correction would have been the proper response, instead you responded no better with a socialist comment, that funny enough is practically the same as Design1stcode2nd's, and then continue to reinforce his belief. ... (now we just need a Nazi response for a full on absurd window into our failure to be practical with different points of view).


Now I work in local government, I personally SEE how it works. In some cases you are very right, inefficient. I have also worked in inefficient private companies as well. Most of government issues are 2 fold in my view...

1. They are just HUGE, even if it was slimmed down to "conservative" standards, it would still be huge. Not only that but also very complex. Efficiency by specialization AND resource sharing is near impossible due to the vast array of functions it has to cover. From medical, to law enforcement, geo mapping, construction, elections etc. Very few other private companies deal with such varied fields/functions.

2. Elected officials and fear of the public. Private companies have to fear public backlashes but the government is waaay more on edge. Causing inefficiencies trying to prevent the critical eye of BOTH sides political hawks. This increases process and procedure which then reduce efficiency. I even see processes to ensure we are not wasting money, that actually COST MORE than just wasting money.


IMO size and services the government provides is a preference value thing, sorta like choosing between Spirit or Delta airlines. I see merit to both ideologies, obviously is changes based on the specific service. Though at the end of the day not everyone's preferences will be held...
 
GlowingGhoul said:
Do you always start making things up from the moment you start speaking , or did you reserve this load of bullshit and exaggerations for this post?

" the right wing thinks every government worker is useless and overpaid"

The CBO reported that all federal government employees with a Bachelors (the most common degree in the Federal workforce) or less are paid more, in some cases approaching 40%, than their private sector counterparts. With extensive benefits and second to none job security, wages should be less than they are in the riskier private sector. People with advanced degrees make slightly less than their private sector counterparts, thanks largely to the exploding salaries in academia.

Meanwhile, you, a believer in government-as-daddy, like most socialists, believe all resources belong to the omnipotent and benevolent government incapable of being wasteful, and any earnings citizens and private are permitted to keep is a gift.

The government is bloated, inefficient, and the worst part of all, insulated from their mistakes. Unlike a business or individual that pays a price for their errors and is forced to change course, the government does not.
Click to expand...

Do you always display such a lack of understanding? TFA was talking about TECHNICAL talent not just employees that happen to have bachelors degrees (i.e. office assistants, front desk staff, security guards et al). In other words STEM fields. Do you assume that every government employee with a bachelors degree is in STEM? I can asure you the majority of STEM fields are not making what they could in the private area. Its not unheard of for a STEM employee in the government to double his or her salary upon leaving.

Yes there is inefficiency in some areas, and its lean (perhaps too lean in some cases) in other areas. That needs to be fixed - nobody disputes that government is inefficient. But what would you rather we have? Anarchy?

I think you completely missed the point when you said government is insulated from its mistakes...Nixon would vehemently disagree with you on that pint where he still alive...
 
To operate in the NSA means you have to live under very strict standards and rules to prevent potential information leak. Given the pay, recent leaks, and surrender of privacy to ensure security, is it any wonder?

Not that I agree with NSA's approach of collecting data on everyone and hiding hacks. (You see where that got us once the hacks escaped. Goodness help us if the data escapes too.) They are in an unenviable position. Between a rock and a hard place I would say.
 
Then riddle me this why can most technical individuals make more in the private sector than in government if government is overpaid? Why are a lot of the technical employees in government contractors? GS 15's and SES that run these organizations would be paid triple if not more in the private sector as well.

I'm sure there are a lot of 8's - 13's that are not worth what they are paid but it is not as wide spread as you may think.
 
I guess nobody here read the article, because its talking about shit from 2015 and 2016. It even makes a point to mention the trend spanned through the Obama administration, for those of you who immediately want to blame the orange guy.

The fact is, the private sector pays better for this kind of work and that's enough incentive to get out form under the ridiculous government structure. Even getting stuff like office supplies can be a pain in the ass.
 
LigTasm said:
The fact is, the private sector pays better for this kind of work and that's enough incentive to get out form under the ridiculous government structure. Even getting stuff like office supplies can be a pain in the ass.
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"Besides - someone named Vladdy just gave me a better offer. He doubled my salary, will contribute 10% of my wage to a 401K, and a free 2-week vacation once a year - in Russia".
 
Design1stcode2nd said:
Then riddle me this why can most technical individuals make more in the private sector than in government if government is overpaid? Why are a lot of the technical employees in government contractors? GS 15's and SES that run these organizations would be paid triple if not more in the private sector as well.

I'm sure there are a lot of 8's - 13's that are not worth what they are paid but it is not as wide spread as you may think.
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8-13s not worth their pay is a lot more wide spread than you think. I don't know if you've run into the useless GS positions yet. Many places have made GS positions, solely to be cut, when the government calls for cuts. That way, they don't have to cut a positions they find more useful or want to keep. So some organizations have created these useless GS positions.

LigTasm said:
I guess nobody here read the article, because its talking about shit from 2015 and 2016. It even makes a point to mention the trend spanned through the Obama administration, for those of you who immediately want to blame the orange guy.

The fact is, the private sector pays better for this kind of work and that's enough incentive to get out form under the ridiculous government structure. Even getting stuff like office supplies can be a pain in the ass.
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I bet a lot of those flooding out, went GS to get the retirement. Once they were there long enough to get it, they left and went private. The only benefit I see of being a GS civilian is the retirement.
 
Self-Dismantled by ethics and low pay, LMAO. All stories have an end.. no exception.
 
Since this is the rough equivalent of America's IT department, how long before we backfill with contractors from India?
 
RayderR6 said:
All part of the dissolving plan of world governments to turn everything into a corporate world with private enterprise controls over the people. Therefore, the people will not be able to vote for leaders, they're too stupid and fall for the bullshit propaganda anyway.

Remember people, "governments" are supposed to be us, they have been taken over by corporations and made to fail in favor of private enterprise running the show (GlowingGhoul's comment has his opinion on this perfectly positioned as to what they want).
Click to expand...
Sorry but big government bureaucracy is not "us". Entrenched, unelected, partisans are a threat to the republic. I will not shed a single tear or lose a minute of sleep if all the progressive SJW's in the NSA resign their positions in protest over the current administration. Out with the old and in with the new. There were many qualified IT people who would never have been considered for positions in the previous administration because they did not fit the "diverse" profile.
 
thejokker said:
Sorry but big government bureaucracy is not "us". Entrenched, unelected, partisans are a threat to the republic. I will not shed a single tear or lose a minute of sleep if all the progressive SJW's in the NSA resign their positions in protest over the current administration. Out with the old and in with the new. There were many qualified IT people who would never have been considered for positions in the previous administration because they did not fit the "diverse" profile.
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Sorry, maybe you didn't see the word "supposed". Maybe seeing that word and understanding what I'm saying with the rest of the line it was in, you wouldn't have replied with the rest of your comment.
 
erexx said:
Science, technology and math are not very popular with this administration. When idiots get put in charge the intellectuals leave.
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Silly liberals...thinking that everyone who is "intellectual" must think like they do.
 
Hakaba said:
You won’t be able to talk sense into some people, they really need to take off thier tin foil hat and stop thinking big brother is out to get them.
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They are only out to get you if you are a threat to the Establishment.
 
It's clear the intel and FBI have been turned into political instruments loyal to Party over Country. I wouldn't mind seeing them all fired and banned from re-hire. Only way to be sure.
 
I would love to work for the NSA. Im just not willing to move to DC. I think it would be a fun job. I don't think they use SAP which is my main knowledge base. 75-85 grand a year and fed government benefits, sign me up.
 
krotch said:
8-13s not worth their pay is a lot more wide spread than you think. I don't know if you've run into the useless GS positions yet. Many places have made GS positions, solely to be cut, when the government calls for cuts. That way, they don't have to cut a positions they find more useful or want to keep. So some organizations have created these useless GS positions.
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Do you have some proof of this? I certainly dont see anyone with spare billets.

Jarod888 said:
I would love to work for the NSA. Im just not willing to move to DC. I think it would be a fun job. I don't think they use SAP which is my main knowledge base. 75-85 grand a year and fed government benefits, sign me up.
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You know they have other places you can work right? Also they arent in DC - Fort Meade is east of DC and west of Baltimore. Basically right smack in the middle of the two.
 
krotch said:
They can't. They'd need clearances and polygraphs done.
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I never understood the polygraph requirement as test after test after test shows they are at best 50% accurate. Basically a guess.

You are more likely to react if you think the machine can guess your thoughts. It can't. An AI program would be more accurate by judging your facial reactions.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
I never understood the polygraph requirement as test after test after test shows they are at best 50% accurate. Basically a guess.

You are more likely to react if you think the machine can guess your thoughts. It can't. An AI program would be more accurate by judging your facial reactions.
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Highly dependent on the individual being tested.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
I never understood the polygraph requirement as test after test after test shows they are at best 50% accurate. Basically a guess.

You are more likely to react if you think the machine can guess your thoughts. It can't. An AI program would be more accurate by judging your facial reactions.
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50% is better than 0%
 
kju1 said:
50% is better than 0%
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50% is the same as tossing a coin. Heads = the truth. Tails = lie.

0% is the exact opposite of every answer. Statistically nearly impossible to do with enough questions.
 
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