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NSA Leaker Outed by Modern Printer Technology
- Thread starter Megalith
- Start date
This we can agree on.
flashoverride
Limp Gawd
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Oh it's better than that. He's suggesting that the military occupy the military
Like that's never happened.
Not entirely correct.
Because she has a clearance, she isn't supposed to support anything "anti-US", anti-government etc. Any statements that would be understood as supporting or advocating the overthrow of the US Government would probably be grounds for revocation of her clearance and access to classified information. Without the clearance she would no long be qualified for her job so she would be out the door. All cleared workers must keep the clearance guys happy and if the investigation into this woman shows others knew about her feelings, and I bet some did, they are going to have some bad days ahead as well because they are required to report such things. just because someone is a contractor it doesn't mean they get to run amok.
Bandalo
2[H]4U
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Step one - find a more reliable source, Sarge. Or preferably, 2-3 of them that match. Given that site's history and entanglements, I wouldn't consider them a worthy source of unbaised news.
Step two, lets just jump to "questioning my cognitive abilities" quite yet. I'm just trying to have a conversation here.
And you need to consider a few things about employment. When you're on active duty, you can have whatever political views or beliefs you'd like. You just can't advertise them in public when representing the military. No political rallies in uniform, etc. Certain political or anti-US sentiments can also be reported to the SSO, and your clearance can be revoked. Nearly the same rules apply when you're a GS. But when you're working for a contractor, it's up to the contractor to ensure your clearance is maintained and you're behaving according to that contractor's rules.
Given some of her statements, I'm surprised her clearance wasn't being reviews and she wasn't being investigated. Part of the problem her seems to be she wasn't out shouting "death to America", she was more protesting a single person. Now given how overloaded the OPM is, I'm not surprised her comments slipped under the radar, especially if she kept them quiet while at work.
Can you elaborate on the last time the US military occupied a federal agency or other military agency?
Get some control of yourself Sarge...you're making the normally professional Marines look bad.
Bandalo
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Very true, and that's researched when she's initially cleared and during her re-investigation. I'm guessing her last renewal of clearance was probably her last year of AF service, so it was probably still active when she started at the new job. Now if she spouted these comments and sentiments at work, that might get her reported to the SSO and investigated. If she kept it to social media, and never gave anyone at work the accounts, or any other reason to suspect her, she could fly under the radar for a long time. Or at least until her next investigation renewal.
Regardless, her posts were clearly unprofessional, regardless of her personal feelings. Especially stupid to post that stuff to social media these days, when all this stuff can and will pop up during your investigations.
flashoverride
Limp Gawd
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Fucking call me "Sarge" again, asshole. Shows how much you know about Marines. You know what a Staff Sergeant is called in the Marine Corps? Staff Sergeant. So we can start there, dickbag. And no, I won't show you my DD-214 without you showing your SSN as well.
If her clearance wasn't being investigated, then I blame Trump for once again being an utterly ineffective piece of shit.
That dumbass got elected on Nov. 8th, and didn't take office until Jan. 20th. The fact that he didn't shred all these assholes and appoint new folks on day one just proves what kind of idiots are in charge.
God damn it.
You wana beat on a 57 year old man retired Army NCO?
I am NOT Covering for her.
I am pointing out that the media lies to us, and some people believe them, Some people, some young people, they get caught up in these lies and become motivated to do stupid things.
Are you sure you can look at both and find room to see both as true?
What I did not say is that she should not be held responsible for her actions or that her actions were justified in any way.
I'm not defending her.
Now if you want to know who I am ask me. Kyle isn't my babysitter and any excuse for a beer is good.
I'm not that picky with who I drink with. I'll even drink with Naval Infantry.
Bandalo
2[H]4U
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Well, if you'd like to behave that way, Staff Sargent, you can call me Lieutenant Commander. Still on active duty by the way.
Her clearance probably was renewed before she left the AF, since it would have expired 5 years after her entry, and she was in for 6 years. So it was very likely still active from her last investigation. So her new employer would have verified she was still in JPAS, changed her employer from "USAF" to "Contractor" and moved on, all perfectly legal and normal for anyone.
The president is not to blame for her clearance. Exactly which "assholes" was he supposed to shred on day one? Everyone at the NSA? The entire staff of the OPM? His own National Security Advisor?
I never served in any branch of the armed forces. I thank you and the other veterans for your service. You fought for my freedom to live in our great country and for my freedom to say that you are acting like a child.
Bandalo
2[H]4U
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No I'm sure no one called you one either. But you are acting in an extremely unprofessional manner, which is not something I'd expect out of a typical career Marine. My dad was a CWO4 in the Marines. I've worked with dozens of Marines during my time (been in since '95). You're in an online forum, words are all you have to fight with here, so use them properly and wisely.
Threatening and/or suggesting that we call the forum owner, and lets all get together in one place and beat on each other seems a bit immature. Another option would be to either drop it and move to another thread. OR, you could read what was written, and try to construct a defense of your position.
Hitler believed he was right. Is it right to selectively leak information out of context to a hostile press. Especially when she has ties to said press. I wonder who wouldn't look bad from selective leaking parts of their conversations. Although none of it has gone anywhere, it feeds the politically motivated gristmill.
She wasn't revealing a large scale spying operation on the public, she is working for a political objective. Another Snoden - no, partisan apparatchik - yes.
You know. I think I have given you all the rope I'll allow. I think I've been rather polite as you've said "Fuck You" to me, challenged me to a fight, and now you want to call me a "Bitch" after I said I'd drink with you.
So I don't want you to mistaken my sentiment when I tell you to Go Fuck Yourself.
If you were on fire I wouldn't piss on you.
Something's not right with this "story". Never mind the boneheaded printer issue. What kind of NSA facility did she work in again? Ever heard of a stig check? Let me get this straight, she communicated with The Intercept (whose reporters are very well versed in tradecraft) through her workstation in this facility, twice? Literally practiced no tradecraft at all. This is a linguist trained in Dari, Pashto, and Farsi with a Top Secret Clearance; she knows how this shit works. Then she gets caught because the reporter showed the NSA contractor the doc's she printed and the city it came from. As a bonus Matt Cole, one of the reporters covering this "story" was involved in outing John Kiriakou over the CIA torture claims.
Something just stinks to high heaven with this one.
Something just stinks to high heaven with this one.
It said in Georgia but was unspecific as to exactly where.
The deal with Intel people that are language trained is that it's only for a few special jobs. I didn't see specific languages listed in the linked report, only "Languages common to Afghanistan" or something to that effect.
I am not sure how you are implying the STIG check to this. If she did communicate with the Intercept from a work computer then it had to have been on an Unclassified network because the classified ones can't touch the internet. That being said, I can't say if the network she was on has the Intercept blocked or not. I can say that it appears I am unable to connect for this reason from my work computer. Now that's the way it is if I try to hit their public facing website, but I am pretty sure this wouldn't stop an email to their domain although it might.
I am sure you would understand if I tell you I don't want to test that one out right at this time.
I'm not sure if the reporter told the NSA where the doc came from or showed it to them. It was my understanding that a copy of the .pdf was uploaded to their site and linked within the story so it would have been their plain for anyone to see. That's what happens when a reporter takes a document that is physically mailed to them, and just scans it to .pdf and links to it.
It outs his source.
As for this story stinking, I can't say. I look at such stories pretty hard looking for claims that are unrealistic and yes, don't smell right. From a technical aspect, nothing about this story has triggered my bullshit flag.
Of course a story like this is going to mean different things to different people and they will each focus on what they see as important or relevant. Take my earlier comments which were focused more on comments made by the NSA source regarding how or why these younger people are "misbehaving".
You need to do your research. See below:
Peter Van Buren Posted onJune 7, 2017
An NSA document purporting to show Russian military hacker attempts to access a Florida company which makes voter registration software is sent anonymously to The Intercept. A low-level NSA contractor, Reality Winner, above, is arrested almost immediately. What’s wrong with this picture? A lot.
Who Benefits?
Start with the question of who benefits – cui bono – same as detectives do when assessing a crime.
- Trump looks bad as another trickle of information comes out connecting something Russian to something 2016 election. Intelligence community (IC) looks like they are onto something, a day or so before ousted FBI Director James Comey testifies before Congress on related matters.
- The Intercept looks like it contributed to burning a source. Which potential leaker is going to them in the future? If potential leakers are made to think twice, another win for the IC.
- The FBI made an arrest right away, nearly simultaneous to the publication, with the formal charges coming barely an hour after The Intercept published. The bust is sure thing according to the very publicly released information. No Ed Snowden hiding out in Russia this time. IC looks good here.
- More evidence is now in the public domain that the Russians are after our election process. Seems as if the IC has been right all along.
Now let’s look at what we know so far about how this happened.
A 25-year-old improbably-named Reality Winner leaves behind a trail long and wide on social media of anti-Trump stuff, including proclaiming herself a member of The Resistance. Never mind, she takes her Top Secret clearance with her out of the Air Force (she had been stationed with the military’s 94th Intelligence Squadron out of Fort Meade, Maryland, co-located with the NSA’s headquarters) and scores a job with an NSA contractor. Despite the lessons of too-much-access the Snowden episode should have taught the NSA, Winner apparently enjoys all sorts of classified documents – her Air Force expertise was in Afghan matters, so it is unclear why she would have access to info on Russia hacking of U.S. domestic companies.
Within only about 90 days of starting her new job, she prints out the one (and only one apparently, why not more?) document in question and mails it to The Intercept. She also uses her work computer inside an NSA facility to write to the Intercept twice about this same time.
Winner has a clearance. She was trained as a Dari, Pashto, and Farsi linguist by the Air Force. She knows how classified stuff works. She has been told repeatedly, as all persons with a clearance are, that her computer, email, printing, and phone are monitored. She mailed the document from Augusta, Georgia, the city where she lives and where the NSA facility is located. She practiced no tradecraft, did nothing to hide her actions and many things to call attention to them. It is very, very unclear why she took the actions she did under those circumstances.
The Document
The Intercept meanwhile drops by their friendly neighborhood NSA contact and shows them the document. NSA very publicly confirms the veracity of the document (unusual in itself, officially the Snowden and Manning documents remain unconfirmed) and then makes sure the open-courtdocument filed is not sealed and includes the information on how the spooks know the leaked doc was printed inside the NSA facility. Winner went on to make a full confession to the FBI. The upshot? This document is not a plant. The NSA wants you to very much know it is real. The Russians certainly are messing with our election.
But funny thing. While the leaked NSA document seems to be a big deal, at least to the general public, it sort of isn’t. It shows one piece of analysis suggesting but not confirming the GRU, Russian military intelligence, tried to steal some credentials and gain access to a private company. No US sources and methods, or raw technical intel, are revealed, the crown jewel stuff. There is no evidence the hack accomplished anything at all, never mind anything nefarious. The hack took place months ago and ran its course, meaning the Russian operation was already dead. The Russians were running a run-of-the-mill spearfishing attack, potentially effective, but nothing especially sophisticated. You get similar stuff all the time trying to harvest your credit card information. The leaked document looks like a big deal but isn’t.
Another issue. The Intercept has a lot of very smart people working for it, people with real-world intelligence and tradecraft experience. People who know about microdot encoding on printed documents, one of the tells here, and people who know they don’t show their whole hand when asking the NSA for a comment. The Intercept journalist volunteered to an NSA contracting company that the envelope received was postmarked to Augusta, where Winner lived and worked. Like Reality Winner and her own security training, it is very, very unclear why the Intercept took the actions it did under those circumstances.
So For Now…
So, look, what we know about this story may represent .01% of the whole picture, and that tiny sliver of visible information is only what the government has chosen to reveal. And sometimes a coincidence is just a coincidence. Sometimes smart people make dumb mistakes.
But that’s not the way you place your bets, especially when dealing with the IC who are good at these kinds of games. At this very early stage I’m going to say there are too many coincidences and too many mistakes to simple shrug it all off. Too many of the benefits in this have accrued on the side of the IC than is typical when a real whistleblower shares classified documents with a journalist.
If it frightens you that I invoke the question of the Deep State using journalists to smear the President, just forget I said anything. But if we’re willing to believe the Russians somehow successfully manipulated our entire society to elect their favored candidate, then we can at least ask a few questions.
Otherwise, if anyone hears Winner’s lawyer use the word “patsy,” let me know, OK?
BONUS: Matt Cole, one of The Intercept journalists credited to this story, was also involved in the outing of source CIA officer John Kiriakou in connection with CIA torture claims. Small world!
Peter Van Buren blew the whistle on State Department waste and mismanagement during Iraqi reconstruction in his first book, We Meant Well: How I Helped Lose the Battle for the Hearts and Minds of the Iraqi People. His latest book is Ghosts of Tom Joad: A Story of the #99 Percent. Reprinted from the his blog with permission.
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Bandalo
2[H]4U
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Occam's Razor applies here....either this was a really big conspiracy, masterminded by the highest levels...Or a young former AF linguist in a new job was a little too sucked in to the anti-Trump hate, and decided to "get back" at them with the first relevant thing she could find. And was bad at covering her tracks. I know which is more likely.
And I've met a lot of young linguists and such in the military. Yes, we're all TRAINED on things being monitored and all the rules and regulations about security. But anyone who's worked with these 1st-tour folks knows that training doesn't always stick. Some of them don't listen, some don't believe it, some just think they can get away with this stuff. And her AF expertise was languages, not any particular geo-political area or analysis. Linguists translate raw intel, they don't perform analysis. Linguists also don't have any "tradecraft" and aren't ever trained on hiding their tracks, or anything of the sort. They're paid to translate. Period.
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Regardless of what you think of this ridiculous document, the whole episode serves to try and distract from and discourage real whistleblowers like Dennis Montgomery
DoubleTap
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Maybe Aliens told them it was her
That would actually be constitutional.
So I was typing this and had to run cause they were closing the doors, I failed to hit submit. So the Occam's Razor statement, well Bandalo beat me to it and I agree.
Looks like a duck .... Quacks like a duck
Occam's Razor FTW
You know, when Pvt. Manning did his gig for WikiLeaks it was stunning that a soldier, a fellow MI soldier, would do such a thing. He copied classified files to removable media and went to an internet cafe, on post, one run by foreign nationals ffs, and sent it to Wikileaks over a foreign operated ISP.
And if you are going to say that people like her know better, and wouldn't do such a thing, read up on what Pvt. White did and know that there are many others who did things just like them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_T._White
I know of another guy that took a laptop full of classified and defected to the East Germans. The East Germans took the stuff and make him go back to his unit to see if he could get away with it and become a long term mole. The Army arrested him at the gate, he was so boned.
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How? I just read that article you linked and I don't see this at all.
The article claims that Montgomery took a massive amount of data, didn't give it to anyone, filed a law suite, and then allowed the FBI to "take control" or recover the data so that it wouldn't get actually leaked. And now the court case is in play.
The story about this girl is no more distracting then any other world event that makes a splash and grabs people's attention.
And when you say "serves to try and", you make it sound like it's a plant, that it was constructed on purpose.
I don't see it man.
Now I have been doing more reading and it's very hard to get a picture of who Dennis Montgomery is and how it is that he came to possess all this data.
See here is something that bothers me. If I ran a classified work environment in today's age, a few things would be in place. The first, is that all storage is SAN or NAS, no data is on local storage on desktops. Even Home directories would be located on NAS so a worker's "My Documents" etc., it's not on the local computer.
Now since the data is on a storage system, and encrypted as data at rest, and it's RAID'd and such. And you know access to server rooms is controlled. All I am saying is that I am trying to imagine the scenario where an employee has access and can amass a large number of physical hard drives and be able to retrieve the information from them once removed from the facility.
It boggles.
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