NSA Doesn’t Need To Spy On Your Calls To Learn Your Secrets

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by HardOCP News, Mar 26, 2015.

  1. HardOCP News

    HardOCP News [H] News

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    Hey, it's "only metadata," what could they possibly learn about you from that? ;)

     
  2. Pure-Platinum-190

    Pure-Platinum-190 Limp Gawd

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    "If you have nothing to hide, and we're sure of it, it's because we're spying on your every move". - NSA

    Big Corps - "Only we should use our spying products to spy on all of our customers for profit"

    US GOV - "All your dataz belong to us".

    Me - ┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
     
  3. Retronym

    Retronym Something big is coming.

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  4. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

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    When the article opens with a patently false statement, no reason to continue.

    But we have learned that it's not "every American" but instead "anyone in America engaged in an overseas call". There is a big difference between the two most notably that the collection is not indiscriminate or without reason, and secondly that there is a very high probably that at least one of the individuals involved is not a US Citizen.
     
  5. HAF72

    HAF72 1337 :)

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    Meh, my life would be too boring for them :D
     
  6. Pure-Platinum-190

    Pure-Platinum-190 Limp Gawd

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    How the fuck can we have learned that when everything they do is under 'National Security'? Answer: We didn't.

    How do we know they don't route calls overseas (or use some other lame ass loophole) just to then have the excuse (rationalization) to do it? Answer: we don't know.

    Why? National Security. We haven't learned shit, period. You just keep puking up the same exact rhetoric in every post I ever see from you about this issue. You keep yelling we got our answers when we're still fighting to try and get them.

    Honestly, I'm tired of your brainwashed uninformed opinion.
     
  7. CreepyUncleGoogle

    CreepyUncleGoogle [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm kinda curious if you've ever been like in trouble with law enforcement, thrown in jail, or have had something unjust happen to you. It's almost like the US Government has done some really terrible thing to you.
     
  8. Pure-Platinum-190

    Pure-Platinum-190 Limp Gawd

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    Reality is a thing, you should live it sometime.

    It's almost like you live in such a glorious bubble where they've done absolutely nothing to warrant any concern of any kind whatsoever.
     
  9. CreepyUncleGoogle

    CreepyUncleGoogle [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm glad we've managed to establish how very not horrible your life has been thus far. :D
     
  10. Pure-Platinum-190

    Pure-Platinum-190 Limp Gawd

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    My life wasn't the topic being discussed.
     
  11. CreepyUncleGoogle

    CreepyUncleGoogle [H]ardness Supreme

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    It's okay to be defensive about it. It means that at least a small part of you knows and regrets the position you've taken in the forum and causes you to feel guilt. That means that you're very, very likely one of the people that's caught up in and being influenced by the mob mind that presently is infatuated with being upset with their government. There's nothing shameful about that. It's hard not to give in to peer and media pressure and when the opinion of the public swings the other way, it'll carry you along because you're easy to influence with slightly more subtle message delivery than stuff like what everyone's favorite Icpiper does here.
     
  12. Pure-Platinum-190

    Pure-Platinum-190 Limp Gawd

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    No, it means you're completely off topic and a tro....

    [​IMG]
     
  13. CreepyUncleGoogle

    CreepyUncleGoogle [H]ardness Supreme

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    That's so an Olympic diving thing! Anyhow, you'd better get back to arguing with Icpiper about this stuff while there's still societal momentum to justify the anger. ;)
     
  14. Pure-Platinum-190

    Pure-Platinum-190 Limp Gawd

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    Will do and I'll let you get back to paradise land where everything is perfect and all the citizens are monitored 24/7/365 (except for the rich/government).
     
  15. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

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    Am I the only one who admires the NSA and their capabilities? I would abuse every ounce of power I had if I worked there. The first thing I would do is go into the phones of some hot girls.
     
  16. Aireoth

    Aireoth 2[H]4U

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    The potential for abuse far outweighs the benefit.

    Only the blind can't see that America is moving towards a heirachical, police nation.

    The scariest part of all this, we debate what has already been done, rather than looking at what will be done. Everytime i read my science news I can see us getting closer and closer to true terrifying technology.

    Have the tinfoil hats been right all along?
     
  17. Pure-Platinum-190

    Pure-Platinum-190 Limp Gawd

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  18. Kueller

    Kueller [H]ardness Supreme

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    *Within [strike=]3 hops[/s] 2 hops of someone making an overseas call. Only 2 hops now! Progress, right?
     
  19. Kueller

    Kueller [H]ardness Supreme

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    Ever tried living while black?
     
  20. pothb

    pothb [H]ardness Supreme

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    You'd be surprised what people can fap to.
     
  21. OlIv0rIolI

    OlIv0rIolI Gawd

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    no need for that, just come down to the great police state of NJ. We oppress everyone equally.
     
  22. Retronym

    Retronym Something big is coming.

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    You're wasting your time.

    He's trying to set up a conditional scenario where you are only allowed to be angry from personal experience, while he simultaneously can prefer societal conditions that favor precautions that he has never demonstrated an identical personal experience with that necessitates their existence.
     
  23. lilbabycat

    lilbabycat 2[H]4U

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    Sometimes I think that people like CreepyUncleGoogle are actually paid ( or just tricked into doing for free) by these government entities to troll / deflect / satirize legitimate complaints/issues in forums like this, such that people never actually focus on said issues.

    If you take this stuff seriously you should probably understand that he purposely makes statements like he does to be funny/witty/devil's advocate; so either ignore him or respond with the understanding that he's doing that on purpose.

    In relation to the article, I think the most easily understandable variation of this (for the general public) are the license plate readers. Getting people to understand the more complex web-surfing meta-analysis (which reveals far more at a certain threshold of data) is difficult task.
     
  24. CreepyUncleGoogle

    CreepyUncleGoogle [H]ardness Supreme

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    Nope, but I've tried living in a different group of disadvantaged sorts of people and it's equally lame. Still, I don't blame my genetic soup combination and the treatment I get from other people as a result on the government or government monitoring programs. Being miffed about individuals doing dumb stuff, sure that's fine. Calling out anarchists, libertarians, and tea party people for touting silly ideals without thinking things through sensibly is also a good thing. The government though...meh, they're just the popular item to dislike right now in sorta the same way it was popular to be upset with veterans after the Vietnam War. It'll pass sooner or later, the outrage will be for naught, and nothing will have come of it because the outrage-ees (?) are way too comfortable with their incomes and couches to do anything but bellyache to everyone who wanders by to read a soapboxy political post in a tech forum.

    Actually...you're like a few post behind because I already did set up a conditional scenario and it proved the point pretty well given the silly-head evasion responses. :D

    Pretty much everyone here is wasting their time anyhow so I dunno why you'd discourage that when you're doing it. Sorta hippo-critical of you.
     
  25. CreepyUncleGoogle

    CreepyUncleGoogle [H]ardness Supreme

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    You just never know who's watching and documenting things, do you? :D *cue spooky music*
     
  26. Retronym

    Retronym Something big is coming.

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    I sometimes think he actually agrees with people like me and deliberately tries to provide the worst possible counterpoints he can think of, and actually serve as the worst example of that he can be.
     
  27. Jagger100

    Jagger100 [H]ardness Supreme

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    You may be right in your accusations. But

    Accusations are not proof.

    Denials are not proof.

    The lack of a Denial of an Accusation is not proof.


    The idea they are spying on everyone is about as proven as the idea they aren't.
     
  28. HardUp4HardWare

    HardUp4HardWare [H]ardness Supreme

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    Here's an experiment for you all.
    With a PC or tablet and your TV on walk around your house talking about a product that you never hear about or see in ads. Like say, blenders or something. But maybe something with a definitive brand name.

    After talking about it for a while sit down at your computer and go to a couple ad-heavy sites and see what pops up. I have done this and while it doesn't seem to work every time I have been freaked out by the fact that it worked even once.

    Tin foil hat on standby
     
  29. fixedmy7970

    fixedmy7970 Gawd

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    uhh right. your phone providers store this data already. the nsa may not store it, but they will access it ie. tapping directly into google's fiber lines
     
  30. Pure-Platinum-190

    Pure-Platinum-190 Limp Gawd

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    1. These aren't my personal accusations, period. It's the understanding of the intellectual collective.

    2. I never said any of this was the case. We do have whistle blowers and the proof they provided us with though. 'National Security' is what the gov hides the rest of the 'proof' behind. Everything!

    3. It's the government. You'd have to be brain dead to assume they aren't doing something evil. If they had nothing to hide, they'd have nothing to fear.

    The idea that they're spying on everyone is (currently) improbable but that idea that they want to and are actively building up that capability is inevitable. That's common sense.
     
  31. flashoverride

    flashoverride Limp Gawd

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    It's always been en vogue to dislike the government in America. Always. From day freaking 1.

    I served this nation in uniform, including a tour to "Mideast Spring Break 2003" and later a trip to Afghanistan. I can tell you first hand through my dealings with almost every alphabet soup government bureaucracy imaginable that the ridiculous notion that these folks are somehow infallible or that their orgs hold them in check or that they think they are there to serve the American people is by and large just plain silly.

    People are as bad as they think they can get away with, be it private business (which you seem to understand) or government (which you seem oddly Pollyanna about). It's just that the government wields so much more power - not only with statutory law but also with control over your limited recourse - that it is only prudent to be more skeptical of its motives.

    Trust but verify, I suppose... I would just stick with plain old verify. I want a limited government that concerns itself with maintaining the greatest amount of freedom for all of its citizens, not in wielding the apparatus of State to enforce highly selective societal policies.
     
  32. CreepyUncleGoogle

    CreepyUncleGoogle [H]ardness Supreme

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    You have a point. Before people even had an American government, they were busy flipping out totally over the nice people on the other side of the Atlantic that helped them get off to a really good start by giving them tax incentives to ease the transition. :(

    Anyhow, I'm not at all claiming that absolute power won't be totally and completely abused. That's one of the anarch-i-libre-tea arguments, but it isn't at all how I feel about things. I guess in the end, I just don't think there's any alternative to it that's better. There are too many crazy people that need to be monitored and if a few other people feel oppressed (or actually are oppressed) along the way, well whatever. It's completely worth it so that we can hangout in a safe home at night with a yummy cup of tea and a snuggly cute kitty, not worrying about whether or not some irresponsible redneck who can't pronounce English words properly is going to take the corner at the intersection unsafely and crash into your living room where you're busy writing a story or reading a book.

    Sure, we should keep an eye on what our government is doing. Personally, I don't care, but other people obviously take this super-duper seriously so they can if they want already. There's that FOIA thingy where they can ask for information and in a few years they'll get whatever thing they're after in a redacted form to wave around angrily if they want.
     
  33. flashoverride

    flashoverride Limp Gawd

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    9/10. Pretty good run of trolling over the past couple days, I would say. Congrats.
     
  34. Pure-Platinum-190

    Pure-Platinum-190 Limp Gawd

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    LOL....:D:rolleyes::D
     
  35. Retronym

    Retronym Something big is coming.

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    for the love of god, stop quoting him. please. lol.

    There is a previous thread somewhere where he tried to nullify any wrong doing any government did in the 20th century since that was "in the past" and no longer 'counted'.
     
  36. CreepyUncleGoogle

    CreepyUncleGoogle [H]ardness Supreme

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    Sometimes I wonder if certain people quote me on purpose just to upset the people that pretend not to read my posts. :)