Now BMW is Recalling 12,000 Diesel Cars Over Emissions

DooKey

DooKey

[H]F Junkie
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Evidently BMW has a problem with software in some of their cars that could mislead regulatory tests for pollutants. They say it's all just a big mistake that some software like that was loaded into some 5 and 7-series vehicles. This is kinda funny since BMW loves to talk about how clean their diesel cars are. Mistake or not this isn't a good look for them. I bet Volkswagen starts screaming for an investigation.

But BMW has so far been able to trumpet clean diesel credentials. After the KBA recently found no issues with a 3-series car that environmental activists had suggested might include a defeat device, development chief Klaus Froehlich stated baldly that "vehicles from the BMW group were not manipulated. Our diesel engines are clean."
 
Every car maker out there lies about their emissions especially with diesel engines. Every single diesel engine made has software that will make it run clean while its in the stationary test. It's basically a cheat device though because when the car is driving or in some cases even simply turning the steering wheel, the software adjusts and it will dump tons of pollutants into the air.
 
Well, what do you expect? Diesel engines operate like this. Or at least they have in the past unless something has recently changed.

100% open throttle all the time.
To increase RPMS, they just up the fuel amount being sprayed into the engine.

The air/fuel ratio has to be absolutely horrendous because of this.
 
braamer said:
If every car manufacturer has to "cheat" to pass emissions requirements, then the emissions requirements are too onerous.
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LA-smog.jpg
 
So if BMW is telling the truth, this was all just a quality assurance/control booboo? Tsk tsk. :p
 
Not to go too far off topic, but does anyone else seem to notice that whenever you see somebody zipping through traffic at unsafe speeds and lane switching without turn signals whilst doing the aforementioned, 90% of the time it's in a BMW?
 
VW, BMW. German conspiracy to dump their shit on us. But, I like BMW's. VW's have always been shit.
 
Netflix has a documentary series called dirty money, one of them has to do with this... Its very interesting.. basically in Europe is okay to do this trickery.
 
Uvaman2 said:
Netflix has a documentary series called dirty money, one of them has to do with this... Its very interesting.. basically in Europe is okay to do this trickery.
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Yeah I just watched it last week and it was pretty good. Our company was using the Volkswagen turbo diesels that got recalled so it made it all the more interesting. I would never own a Volkswagen again anyway due to all the nightmare maintenance issues we had with them. Two of the cars I was driving literally broke down on me as the gas pedal completely quit responding. I nearly had an accident the first time it happened because I just pulled out onto a highway and several cars behind me had to slam on brakes but there was nothing I could do. Never had any issues like that with any other cars in my 30 something years of driving.
 
cyclone3d said:
Well, what do you expect? Diesel engines operate like this. Or at least they have in the past unless something has recently changed.

100% open throttle all the time.
To increase RPMS, they just up the fuel amount being sprayed into the engine.

The air/fuel ratio has to be absolutely horrendous because of this.
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That’s how throttle works yes, on gasoline as well. Push the accelerator and get a greater amount of fuel being combusted which in turn creates more RPMs and power.


misterbobby said:
Yeah I just watched it last week and it was pretty good. Our company was using the Volkswagen turbo diesels that got recalled so it made it all the more interesting. I would never own a Volkswagen again anyway due to all the nightmare maintenance issues we had with them. Two of the cars I was driving literally broke down on me as the gas pedal completely quit responding. I nearly had an accident the first time it happened because I just pulled out onto a highway and several cars behind me had to slam on brakes but there was nothing I could do. Never had any issues like that with any other cars in my 30 something years of driving.
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I’m sorry but what? Why would you pull out and attempt to merge at a speed that would cause others to slam on their brakes the moment your accelerator quit responding?

Those VWs must have had a helluva engine brake on them to cause that without being able to perhaps get to the shoulder in some capacity.
 
braamer said:
If every car manufacturer has to "cheat" to pass emissions requirements, then the emissions requirements are too onerous.
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Maybe the technology is too old for the modern age, time to move to EVs if car companies can't cut it with their aging dinosaur fuel tech.

I certainly am not interested in giving my daughter asthma or grandmother cancer if I had the choice in this regard, but maybe those family priorities matter less in some areas.
 
Nolan7689 said:
That’s how throttle works yes, on gasoline as well. Push the accelerator and get a greater amount of fuel being combusted which in turn creates more RPMs and power.



I’m sorry but what? Why would you pull out and attempt to merge at a speed that would cause others to slam on their brakes the moment your accelerator quit responding?

Those VWs must have had a helluva engine brake on them to cause that without being able to perhaps get to the shoulder in some capacity.
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Do you think I'm an idiot that doesn't know how to drive? I drive for a living. When I pulled out onto the road I had plenty of time to accelerate if the car would have been acting normal but as soon as I pulled out when I got to about 10 or 15 miles an hour the car basically just shut off and quit accelerating so yes traffic rapidly flew up on me causing people to hit their brakes extremely hard.
 
misterbobby said:
Do you think I'm an idiot that doesn't know how to drive? I drive for a living. When I pulled out onto the road I had plenty of time to accelerate if the car would have been acting normal but as soon as I pulled out when I got to about 10 or 15 miles an hour the car basically just shut off and quit accelerating so yes traffic rapidly flew up on me causing people to hit their brakes extremely hard.
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No I don’t think you’re an idiot, I just misinterpreted what you meant by highway.

I unfortunately use highway semi interchangeably with the interstate and was assuming you meant merged at speed from an on ramp.

Now though, yes I do think you’re an idiot that doesn’t know how to drive. You pulled out in front of traffic that you probably shouldn’t have if they had to hit their brakes “extremely hard”. Unless this highway somehow didn’t have shoulders and instead had curbs. You should have had time to coast the fuck out of their way same as you planned on getting up to speed.
 
misterbobby said:
I had plenty of goddamn room to pull out in the road but again the car stopped accelerating at around 10 or 15 miles an hour and there is no shoulder on that area of Road and it's Rolling Hills so yes people were not expecting to fly up on a car doing 10 or 15 miles an hour in a 45 Zone. Seriously f*** off if you have nothing worthwhile to add.
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That’s a lot of anger there buddy, sorry to have assumed so much about your driving. I’ll just go fuck off now.

Honestly though no I didn’t figure you an idiot but your original bit was light enough on information it didn’t sound right to me. I guess I asked in the wrong way for clarification. Your second post was just annoying enough that I admittedly I baited you. (And got more clarification.)

I apologize, most I can do. (Also to the mods for this small derailment.)
 
They weren't testing them right.

Sorry, so much Apple stuff lately, couldn't help it.
 
Wierdo said:
Maybe the technology is too old for the modern age, time to move to EVs if car companies can't cut it with their aging dinosaur fuel tech.

I certainly am not interested in giving my daughter asthma or grandmother cancer if I had the choice in this regard, but maybe those family priorities matter less in some areas.
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I highly doubt EVs are the solution either, they've just managed to move their pollution generation out of sight. The mining of precious metals for batteries has a major environmental impact, and then the upcoming issue of what to do with all the old batteries when they are no longer feasible.
 
I seem to recall that the more torquier diesel engines have strong engine braking, although I have no experience with that.

Yes, torquier. That word now exists thanks to this discussion.
 
glutto said:
I seem to recall that the more torquier diesel engines have strong engine braking, although I have no experience with that.

Yes, torquier. That word now exists thanks to this discussion.
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Yes, modern diesels do engine brake better than old ones, that's for sure. Not heaps but enough to keep the load on your brakes low during steep ascension.
Two stroke motorcycles though.. damn lol. May as well drag your shoes on the road.
 
I hope it's a small matter. We need more diesels in the US, from a fuel efficient viewpoint.

theplaidfad said:
Not to go too far off topic, but does anyone else seem to notice that whenever you see somebody zipping through traffic at unsafe speeds and lane switching without turn signals whilst doing the aforementioned, 90% of the time it's in a BMW?
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No. I see mostly Toyota and Lexus drivers doing that where I am (middle of the country Midwest). And, as a former car salesman, 90% of Toyota and Lexus buyers carry a "my shit don't stink and I own the road" kind of an attitude.
 
Nolan7689 said:
That’s a lot of anger there buddy, sorry to have assumed so much about your driving. I’ll just go fuck off now.

Honestly though no I didn’t figure you an idiot but your original bit was light enough on information it didn’t sound right to me. I guess I asked in the wrong way for clarification. Your second post was just annoying enough that I admittedly I baited you. (And got more clarification.)

I apologize, most I can do. (Also to the mods for this small derailment.)
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You were calling him names and trolling him multiple times.
 
braamer said:
If every car manufacturer has to "cheat" to pass emissions requirements, then the emissions requirements are too onerous.
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They don't actually need to cheat to pass the NOx tests they just need more AdBlue®, but that would require bigger tanks for that and more frequent refills which would drive up costs too much.

Most "professional" models like the Crafter for example tend to be fine but they gobble up more urea (the reason why diesels smell like piss btw) but the added costs are less of a factor in these segments.
 
Nolan7689 said:
That’s how throttle works yes, on gasoline as well. Push the accelerator and get a greater amount of fuel being combusted which in turn creates more RPMs and power.
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Ummm, just NO!

On a gasoline engine, the air supply is also regulated. You get a much finer control on air/fuel mixture on a gasoline engine.

Diesel engines have no throttle plate to regulate air intake. The only thing that happens when you press the "throttle" on a diesel is it keeps the injectors open longer to feed more diesel directly into the combustion chambers.
The lack of air regulation on a diesel is also the reason why there is the term "run away diesel".
This generally happens when the turbo blows a seal and the engine sucks the oil into the combustion chambers and burns it. With nothing to stop the airflow, the engine just keeps revving higher and higher until either it runs out of oil
or it self destructs from too high of rpms.. or both.

Shutting off the "ignition" does nothing in this type of situation because all that does is shut off the supply of diesel fuel. If the engine is sucking in oil, the engine will keep running.

So if your turbo blows a seal on a diesel, you are screwed 7 ways till Sunday.
 
N4CR said:
Yes, modern diesels do engine brake better than old ones, that's for sure. Not heaps but enough to keep the load on your brakes low during steep ascension.
Two stroke motorcycles though.. damn lol. May as well drag your shoes on the road.
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That is what shifting to a lower gear, most likely more than just a single downshift is for, even on a two-stroke motorcycle. Note: I only have experience with dirt bikes, so I guess larger street bikes could be different but I don't see why they would be.
 
Cars have had AIR pumps since the 70s oil crisis. Those just pumped fresh air into the exhaust system to essentially skew the results at the tailpipe.
 
cyclone3d said:
That is what shifting to a lower gear, most likely more than just a single downshift is for, even on a two-stroke motorcycle. Note: I only have experience with dirt bikes, so I guess larger street bikes could be different but I don't see why they would be.
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I'm talking sportsbikes, RG125, NSR250 modded to shit as a 300 with no powervalves etc. Depends on how they are configured really. Big singles might do better in this regard.
 
Where I live, people purposely modify their trucks to emit more exhaust. I think it might be called coking or stacking? All I know, these dudes are asshole. They also have truck nuts on their bumpers. I'm sad I didn't think of that - who would have thought there would be a market to buy testicles for your truck?
 
IcePickFreak said:
Cars have had AIR pumps since the 70s oil crisis. Those just pumped fresh air into the exhaust system to essentially skew the results at the tailpipe.
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Even worse, many of the pre-cat and early cat cars had their timing retarded to cause MORE unburned hydrocarbons in the exhaust so the AIR system would burn hotter, giving a cleaner exhaust.

steakman1971 said:
I think it might be called coking or stacking?
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Around here, they call it 'Coaling' Agree with your term for them.

The new diesels may burn cleaner but most require DEF. So we have marginally cleaner air and roadways littered with empty DEF bottles and boxes.
 
misterbobby said:
I had plenty of goddamn room to pull out in the road but again the car stopped accelerating at around 10 or 15 miles an hour and there is no shoulder on that area of Road and it's Rolling Hills so yes people were not expecting to fly up on a car doing 10 or 15 miles an hour in a 45 Zone. Seriously f*** off if you have nothing worthwhile to add.
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Shoulda had a V8 :)
 
braamer said:
I highly doubt EVs are the solution either, they've just managed to move their pollution generation out of sight. The mining of precious metals for batteries has a major environmental impact, and then the upcoming issue of what to do with all the old batteries when they are no longer feasible.
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Sure, but the idea is you initially produce comparable pollution levels at production stage, things gotta get made, then within around the very first year you pay it back relative to an ICE alternative, it's free sailing from there.

Add to that the fact that 95 percent of the product can potentially be reused/re-purposed/recycled and it's quite an attractive direction.

Then you add to that the benefit of dependency on an ever improving power grid system, embracing renewables rapidly each passing day, and every EV on the road improves in environmental efficiency every year - as opposed to an aging ICE vehicle that just degrades and obsoletes with time and mileage in this regard.

People don't often look at the pollution cost from start - ex. oil refining, transport tankers etc - to finish, so at first glance it may look like a small change, but the bigger picture is a drastic improvement.
 
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IcePickFreak said:
Cars have had AIR pumps since the 70s oil crisis. Those just pumped fresh air into the exhaust system to essentially skew the results at the tailpipe.
Click to expand...

Dead Parrot said:
Even worse, many of the pre-cat and early cat cars had their timing retarded to cause MORE unburned hydrocarbons in the exhaust so the AIR system would burn hotter, giving a cleaner exhaust.
Click to expand...

Yep, just two examples of CRAP "emissions" equipment and crap emissions requirements actually causing harm rather than good.

Retarding the timing so the restrictive CAT works better not only hurts fuel mileage but also reduces power.

That is one "great" piece of equipment right there.
 
Aren't petrol and lpg cleaner fuels, compared to diesel? Why don't we leave diesels for trucks, tractors and other heavy machinery, where diesel engines work very well? Is it just the price of fuel that people look at? I've driven petrol cars all my life - can't see how some increase in fuel consumption can make or break a decision, when diesels have a bunch of cons (but most of those are the way it "feels" to drive a car, maybe most people don't care...).
 
steakman1971 said:
Where I live, people purposely modify their trucks to emit more exhaust. I think it might be called coking or stacking? All I know, these dudes are asshole. They also have truck nuts on their bumpers. I'm sad I didn't think of that - who would have thought there would be a market to buy testicles for your truck?
Click to expand...

Ah, but we have a few of those here on [H]. I clearly remember one of the hardcore ones rambling about sticking it to the liberals by using some kind of lead additive.
 
Koween said:
Aren't petrol and lpg cleaner fuels, compared to diesel? Why don't we leave diesels for trucks, tractors and other heavy machinery, where diesel engines work very well? Is it just the price of fuel that people look at? I've driven petrol cars all my life - can't see how some increase in fuel consumption can make or break a decision, when diesels have a bunch of cons (but most of those are the way it "feels" to drive a car, maybe most people don't care...).
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I actually like diesels better than gas burners except on muscle cars. My lawn mower and my wife's car are both diesel and my next truck will be a diesel.
 
dgz said:
Ah, but we have a few of those here on [H]. I clearly remember one of the hardcore ones rambling about sticking it to the liberals by using some kind of lead additive.
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I never got the point of "rolling coal". It is up there with putting a spark plug in the tailpipe of an older car and then running it rich to make it shoot flame out of the ass end.

Diesel is harder to get the emmissions down on, but is more efficient in terms of MPG than gasoline. More therms in a given amount of diesel than in gasoline, hence you go further on the same amount of fuel with diesel.
There is a reason trains, ships, heavy trucks predominantly use diesel.
 
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