Not impressed with my Audioengine A2's

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rc3ilynt

Limp Gawd
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Up until a month ago I owned a set of Klipsch Promedia 2.1's. While they were great for the occasional movie and to some degree music, they seemed muffled at times. With my brother starting college and without speakers, I gave them to him and picked up a pair of Audioengine A2's(not the A2+) as others whobhave had a chanve to compare these teo have said there is a "cleaner, richer sound" with the A2's. Personally I don't hear it and in a way these sound muddier. I haven't had a chance to A/B as I no longer own the Promedia's but from what I remember, even the satellite speakers exhibited a cleaner sound. Both were plugged into the same Asus Essence STX sound card on my computer at comparable volume levels. You could say its hard to compare a 2.0 and 2.1 system which may be true but maybe I'm missing something? With the exception of buying a new set of speakers, would adding a sub help? Any software tweaks I don't know about that may help? If not, any new speaker suggestions or advice would be appreciated. Looking for a solution under $200.
 
I'd look into active studio monitors in the price range. Ideally those you can test yourself at local pro audio shops and see what you like.
 
You get what you pay for in audio. What are you expecting for $200?
 
rc3ilynt said:
Up until a month ago I owned a set of Klipsch Promedia 2.1's. While they were great for the occasional movie and to some degree music, they seemed muffled at times. With my brother starting college and without speakers, I gave them to him and picked up a pair of Audioengine A2's(not the A2+) as others whobhave had a chanve to compare these teo have said there is a "cleaner, richer sound" with the A2's. Personally I don't hear it and in a way these sound muddier. I haven't had a chance to A/B as I no longer own the Promedia's but from what I remember, even the satellite speakers exhibited a cleaner sound. Both were plugged into the same Asus Essence STX sound card on my computer at comparable volume levels. You could say its hard to compare a 2.0 and 2.1 system which may be true but maybe I'm missing something? With the exception of buying a new set of speakers, would adding a sub help? Any software tweaks I don't know about that may help? If not, any new speaker suggestions or advice would be appreciated. Looking for a solution under $200.
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From what you are saying I think you are very sensitive to crossover frequency, as I am.

If that is the case, you want to avoid Logitech Speakers or anything else that crosses over above 80 hz.

I can tell you from experience that while the Corsair 2500's might be a slight improvement, they are no where near worth the money they cost and I think you would be disappointed in them. I sure am.

I think you need to either go the receiver, sub, bookshelf speaker route or the active monitor & sub route.

You are looking at $500 to $1000 either way to get stuff that's worth the money though.
 
I have the A2's as well. They are decent speakers for their size. However the design consideration was for that small size before anything else. They lack low bass and Audioengine chose to overemphasis mid-bass in them to compensate, which is why they sound muddy to you. The imaging on the A2's is quite good, and it's a decent speaker, however you'd probably have been better off with the A5's or a 2.1 system.

Given your budget maybe give the M-Audio AV40's a shot.
 
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Megalith said:
You get what you pay for in audio. What are you expecting for $200?
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Fair point.

TechLarry said:
From what you are saying I think you are very sensitive to crossover frequency, as I am.

If that is the case, you want to avoid Logitech Speakers or anything else that crosses over above 80 hz.

I can tell you from experience that while the Corsair 2500's might be a slight improvement, they are no where near worth the money they cost and I think you would be disappointed in them. I sure am.

I think you need to either go the receiver, sub, bookshelf speaker route or the active monitor & sub route.

You are looking at $500 to $1000 either way to get stuff that's worth the money though.
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I've never thought about it like that. It could very well be sensitivity to crossover frequency so I'll have to give that a test. I'd honestly love a setup like that but I'm not at the point of my life yet where I can spend on such nice things.

Ryom said:
I have the A2's as well. They are decent speakers for their size. However the design consideration was for that small size before anything else. They lack low bass and Audioengine chose to overemphasis mid-bass in them to compensate, which is why they sound muddy to you. The imaging on the A2's is quite good, and it's a decent speaker, however you'd probably have been better off with the A5's or a 2.1 system.

Given your budget maybe give the M-Audio AV40's a shot.
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They are incredibly small for what they can do. I'll play around with the mid-bass to see if it helps. I've seen great reviews of the AV40's. They're actually available locally for purchase so I'll definitely give it a try.

John721 said:
I'd look into active studio monitors in the price range. Ideally those you can test yourself at local pro audio shops and see what you like.
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I probably should've done this in the first place.


That said, appreciate the advice so far.
 
You may find this article interesting - it has measurements of the A2 & AV40. (An interesting article at about.com - I'm shocked too...) Single measurements like these are FAR from the whole story, but the AV40s definitely look better balanced than the A2s. And go a bit deeper in the bass, though neither are close to the Promedias' sub.

Your first choice for a higher-end set should be the JBL LSR305s. They're about $250/pair and much better quality.
 
There can be several reasons for 'muffled' sound.

Here's a few:

Incorrect speaker polarity: If you wired your stereo speakers so that their polarities are mixed you will get a very weird and muffled sound as a result. edit: This can not be your problem though as they're powered. Edit2: Although I have seen factory made cables cross polarity before.

Incorrect positioning of the speaker: You should place your spakers at least 2 feet from any walls and as far from the table surface as possible considering that the tweeter should be around at your ear level.

Bad room acoustics: If your room is small and has a lot of hard surfaces any speaker that amplifies bass or especially upper bass completely overwhelms the highs and mids.

Bad speaker design (as Ryom already pointed) will make room acoustic problems worse. What you could try to do is use your computer EQ to drop down 80 - 240 hz frequencies by 3-6 db. Boost 60 and 300hz by +1-2db if you do that.

And then the worst of all: You played the A2 with a low power amplifier loud and burned up the tweeters. Nothing short of tweeter replacement will fix that one. This is one of the reasons I never recommend a small speaker + small amp combo to anyone. One 'let's see how loud they are' moment easily equals to dead tweeters. Unlike you would think having a small amplifier is far more dangerous to your speakers than having a large one. Even though the A2 is powered, it's not afaik biamped and there for the tweeter doesn't have as effective protection as it would if it had it's own amp.
 
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rc3ilynt said:
Fair point.



I've never thought about it like that. It could very well be sensitivity to crossover frequency so I'll have to give that a test. I'd honestly love a setup like that but I'm not at the point of my life yet where I can spend on such nice things.



They are incredibly small for what they can do. I'll play around with the mid-bass to see if it helps. I've seen great reviews of the AV40's. They're actually available locally for purchase so I'll definitely give it a try.



I probably should've done this in the first place.


That said, appreciate the advice so far.
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Interestingly, you are usually the perfect candidate for the Klipsh ProMedia 2.1's :)
 
Another trick is the 125hz slider on a system with poor crossover design. This was the only thing that could help the otherwise horrible Logitech Z5500's for music. About 6db down on that slider would at least take the boom away and make it as tolerable as, say, a 1960's table radio.
 
TechLarry said:
Another trick is the 125hz slider on a system with poor crossover design. This was the only thing that could help the otherwise horrible Logitech Z5500's for music. About 6db down on that slider would at least take the boom away and make it as tolerable as, say, a 1960's table radio.
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The thing is that these small speakers are fighting an uphill battle.

They can't beat the physics, small size just doesn't allow a full range solution. They can't beat the fact that people are not prepared to pay much for a small speaker so they cut cost - and you can hear it.

My advice for anyone being strung on a budget is to do a DIY build. There is a plethora of instructions around and you can get a really high quality small speaker for reasonable cost if you build it yourself. Even better if you manage to break it, since you built it you can fix it.

If you can't afford a PROPER near field monitor and you can't or want to try building one yourself, the best advice anyone can give is to try to get speakers for test listening at home. The best bet is to try different models and then pick the one you like the most (in the price range).

The problem with speakers is that one speaker can sound decent in someone's room - but when placed to a small boomy room the same speaker may sound nasty. If you buy a speaker without the ability to test listen to it, you're playing lottery. That being said good luck to your hunt. Thanks to the internet you can find all sorts of reviews of speakers nowadays. If you can't listen yourself, look for the models that the reviews have found most neutral. You want as neutral as possible, perhaps even a bit subdued. This is the best way to go because your room WILL change the way a speaker sounds and the less the speaker emphasizes any frequency itself, the better chance you have to get a decent sound.

Even a crappy speaker can be 'helped' with the proper positioning. Worst thing you can do is place a small speaker to the floor in the corner of the room. It will be a mess.
 
steal said:
They're worth about $30, that's the problem. You can get a great set of speakers for $200, but the A2's aren't it.
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Exactly. I tried a pair of the A2+ for my MBP. Not bad, but certainly not worth the $250 I paid. Returned them in less than a week. Picked up a pair of Swan D1080-IV active monitors for $150 which sound so much better.
 
Tyler-Durden said:
Exactly. I tried a pair of the A2+ for my MBP. Not bad, but certainly not worth the $250 I paid. Returned them in less than a week. Picked up a pair of Swan D1080-IV active monitors for $150 which sound so much better.
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The A2s has an exaggerated midbass but at least has the excuse of a small form factor. The A5s are rubbish from an audio quality/price standpoint that nobody should even consider them by this point in time.
 
Personally I thought the Audioengine A2 were a decent upgrade over the Promedia 2.1.

To me the A2 had a cleaner and more clear sound.

From the frequency plot I took, the A2 did have a rise in output between 100-200 Hz, but it was still better than the frequency plot of the promedia. (Also, the tweeters of the promedias would cut out when trying to take a frequency plot at any decent volume.)

I also preferred the Audioengine A2 over the speakers I bought to replace them (Kef HTS3001, which were okay as TV speakers but I didn't like them as nearfield monitors).

Again, personally, I liked the Audioengine A2.

But currently I am using some Kef home theater speakers (Kef HTS6001) as my computer monitors. I have both the Kef HTS5001 and HTS6001 which I quite like as computer monitors (much better than the Kef HTS3001).

If you don't like the sound of Audioengine, then maybe try the Emotiva Airmotiv 4s (regular price of $299, but go on sale now and then). Quite a few people say the Airmotiv 4s and 5s have better sound than the audioengine speakers.
 
bleagh said:
(Also, the tweeters of the promedias would cut out when trying to take a frequency plot at any decent volume.)
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Heh, a high volume frequency sweep often kills your tweeters on the first try. The promedias have a surprisingly smart protection circuit if the tweeters did cut out. Your A2 tweeters are probably damaged now.

A typical tweeter can handle only 1-2 watts of RMS power. The overall speaker can handle 100-200 watts typically only because the crossover cuts lower frequencies and lets only sound above 4-5khz to the tweeter and music has very little energy on high frequencies.

A sine sweep is a different story. If you push 20 watts past the frecuency range above 5khz you can kiss most tweeters goodbye. Especially if you play 20khz sine sound and 'try to hear' the frequency despite your hearing not going that high in the first place lol.
 
The A2's have a reasonably flat response with the expected shortcomings of its form factor. My personal caveats for a speaker that resulted in an A2 purchase were in order: Absolutely no LEDs, Small size, Good sound, Look goods (they were bedroom speakers). The A2s are very hard to top when the user understands their niche :)

I can't speak to the A5's quality as I don't have direct experience with them. I do recall reading about a pair of several hundred watt RMS active monitors that had useful output down to 40hz without a sub however. Also 4 figures for the pair, but hey :)
 
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B00nie said:
Heh, a high volume frequency sweep often kills your tweeters on the first try. The promedias have a surprisingly smart protection circuit if the tweeters did cut out. Your A2 tweeters are probably damaged now.
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I said reasonable volume, not high volume. The promedias cut out at 90 dB so I had to drop it lower. The A2 had no problems doing a 90 dB sweep.
 
bleagh said:
I said reasonable volume, not high volume. The promedias cut out at 90 dB so I had to drop it lower. The A2 had no problems doing a 90 dB sweep.
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You said decent volume which may mean a lot of different things. The fact that the promedias triggered the protection circuit means that your input voltage was high enough for the designer to deem it dangerous.

90db should mean 2-3 volts usually or 1 watts on an 8 ohm speaker. Perhaps the promedias detect sine sound and realise bad things are about to happen who knows :)
 
Kanto Yu5/Yumi, i picked them up and honestly are the most versatile bookshelf's i have ever used. Check them out. Much better than the A5s
 
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