Norway Banning New Sales Of Gas-Powered Cars By 2025

Megalith

Megalith

24-bit/48kHz
Staff member
Joined
Aug 20, 2006
Messages
13,000
Political parties in Norway have agreed on a new energy policy that will include a ban on new gasoline-powered car sales as soon as 2025. Norway already has the highest percentage of electric vehicle market share of any country.

What’s probably most remarkable here is that Norway is currently one of the world’s largest Oil exporters. India confirmed that it is evaluating a scheme for all its fleet to be electric by 2030 and the Dutch government is discussing the possibility to ban gas-powered car sales and only allow electric vehicle sales starting also by 2025, but the idea divides the parliament. Norway’s initiative looks like it could be the first made into law and would only allow zero-emission vehicles to be sold in the country starting in less than a decade.
 
"Zero emission" required by law? That'll be interesting. I prefer the term "remote emission", since it's more accurate and less biased.

I wonder how they consider strip-mining, acid washing, and other techniques for getting solar panel minerals to be zero emission? And how wind power is a joke which kills birds and causes massive headaches to humans and is unsuited for any type of grid power? Or what they think will happen with hydro-power since every dammable waterway is already dammed...and damn the fish. That leaves coal...which would make their heads explode, or nuclear (okay for dictators in Iran and N. Korea, but not for peace loving democracies) or the evil petrofuels turning gas or oil turbines.

Let's not mention lithium production for the batteries...

Time for me to invest in Norwegian reindeer futures.
 
Hydrogen...

Already 10 filling stations in LA and growing. One car available to the public and growing...

I hate electric cars, but everything is a stepping stone into the future.
 
c3k said:
"Zero emission" required by law? That'll be interesting. I prefer the term "remote emission", since it's more accurate and less biased.

I wonder how they consider strip-mining, acid washing, and other techniques for getting solar panel minerals to be zero emission? And how wind power is a joke which kills birds and causes massive headaches to humans and is unsuited for any type of grid power? Or what they think will happen with hydro-power since every dammable waterway is already dammed...and damn the fish. That leaves coal...which would make their heads explode, or nuclear (okay for dictators in Iran and N. Korea, but not for peace loving democracies) or the evil petrofuels turning gas or oil turbines.

Let's not mention lithium production for the batteries...

Time for me to invest in Norwegian reindeer futures.
Click to expand...


A fossil fuel power plant is much, much more efficient than a combustion engine. Also you have the advantage of having the emissions in a centralized place.

Plus, Norway has a lot of Hydropower already.
 
Probleminfected said:
Hydrogen...

Already 10 filling stations in LA and growing. One car available to the public and growing...

I hate electric cars, but everything is a stepping stone into the future.
Click to expand...
Why do you hate electric cars? The battery explosion? the battery is worst than gas? any specific reason?
 
Probleminfected said:
Hydrogen...

Already 10 filling stations in LA and growing. One car available to the public and growing...

I hate electric cars, but everything is a stepping stone into the future.
Click to expand...

So you want to trade fueling up on gasoline to fueling up on hydrogen, why?
Do you realize how much waste it is to transport and generate hydrogen, hydrogen is just another fuel mode, but an expensive one compared to batteries.
Hydrogen is difficult to contain because it literally leaks through everything, it needs to be super cold to be stored efficiently.
Hydrogen is no better than gasoline, it requires infrastructure, transportation of hydrogen. With electricity, you could charge anywhere there is an outlet, it's more efficient, convenient and already available worldwide.
 
I don't think the technical challenges involved with hydrogen fuel will be solved in 100 more years of work on it. That includes the economic realities and environmental impacts, not just the varied problems with safely handling the universe's smallest molecule. Electric has won the right to be the future.

Oh and as for the "remote emission" rather than zero emission, that's just fossil fuel FUD talking. Yes, the emissions come at the power plant, or in the production of the solar panels, geothermal energy plant, or what have you. But no, that is not an argument against electric vehicles, because even the dirtiest electric power made at a power plant used to fuel electric vehicles is cleaner than the equivalent gasoline and diesel vehicles. The simple fact is that its a lot easier and effective to reduce the pollution of a single source, like a power plant, than many small sources, like all the internal combustion engines in vehicles.

This argument is old and tired, I wish I would stop having to make it. But there's always someone who feels threatened by electrics in every thread.
 
Derkspector said:
I think the reason the left loves wind turbines so much is because of infrasound, which would prob cause brain damage in children and produce more liberals. ;p
Click to expand...

OMG you just figured it all out...

Life will be perfect when everyone is a true conservative american like this guy:

redneck1.jpg


He is pro business! No matter the form!
 
pothb said:
Why do you hate electric cars? The battery explosion? the battery is worst than gas? any specific reason?
Click to expand...

Yea, I'd be interested as well. I have a Hybrid and love it. I'm nearly set on making my next vehicle fully electric.
 
Musk tweeted the magazine cover and didn't even mention the huge vagina on the front page.
 
If elecrics are so good, why must the government use the threat of force to make citizens use them?

Edited to add: using ad hominem attacks as a support for your position shows how flawed the economic and ecological argument for mandated electric car use really is.
 
Last edited:
Electrics aren't perfect. And gas companies do have an agenda to delay it. And some people are just retarded. I wouldn't have thought so, but the ones I'm specifically talking about are the idiots who go out of their way to get their cars to pollute more.
 
I find it a little funny for a country that requires you to have you heater going 9 months of the year. That will shorten the range.
 
When electric cars match internal combustion in range and refuelling there will be absolutely no justifiable reason to buy any kind of combustion engine.

I'd still love to see a cleaner, better battery though. Fortunately this tech isn't mired in the foul stench of obstructive lobbying (yet) like combustion is, it will come. Ideally we'd have a little on board reactor...
 
This is my conclusion that, after reading arguments for and against some of the popular controversial subjects (such as, for example, alleged conspiracy theories about how scientists are making all kids in the world autistic, or how when a plane is proven to be bombed, but the public likes the debunked missile theory better), I am convinced that the word "truth" no longer has ANY connection to the word "facts". When they say they want "truth", what they really want is 'truth' that conforms their belief as to what happened, not facts. If facts don't agree with what happened? Label it "cover-up".

This is how I came to the conclusion, it's not people are uneducated, or don't know better to believe in it, but they reject facts because it doesn't conform with their beliefs (which includes religions, ideological, scientific/pseudo-scientific, etc), and thus voluntarily stay ignorant.

But I digress, I strayed WAY off topic.

This would work in Norway if the energy they use are primarily clean and renewable, and it would makes sense to replace gas powered cars even it means less efficiency overall (EG power loss due to electricity transmission between the plant and the car).

The same policy would not work in say China, where they still remain heavily fossil fuel dependent on their electricity.
 
Why Norway, of all places? Aren't batteries shit in cold climate? The cost drain for time spent charging these vehicles is seriously underestimated. It is going backwards.

Also, I wouldn't drive my family in an electric vehicle. I don't care what you tell me, that shit isn't as safe.
 
MRAB54 said:
Why Norway, of all places? Aren't batteries shit in cold climate? The cost drain for time spent charging these vehicles is seriously underestimated. It is going backwards.

Also, I wouldn't drive my family in an electric vehicle. I don't care what you tell me, that shit isn't as safe.
Click to expand...
What about it isn't safe for you? Only thing I can really think of is if the battery explodes into fire or something, but chances of that is way slimmer than gasoline, from what I've heard. Though, if it did, it's a much more dangerous fire.
 
So the country that has massive oil reserves, but not resource rich in electric auto batteries, and also has a massively cold climate requiring quickly depleting electric heaters, is going to fuck their own populous to make a point that they are ultimately under control by a higher power, or they are a retarded leftest coup that will ultimately garnish all media headlines in-spite of the realities that will shortly follow!
If I had a vote, which I do not, it would be used to request all town people to ascend upon the obviously corrupted left-wing elite to a BBQ in their honor.
They can choose their own glaze.

Bonus points awarded for most ignorant reply. (only one winner awarded, regardless of replies)
 
ymer said:
A fossil fuel power plant is much, much more efficient than a combustion engine. Also you have the advantage of having the emissions in a centralized place.

Plus, Norway has a lot of Hydropower already.
Click to expand...
Yes, but no battery has close to the energy density of fossil fuels, and while you can refill 300 miles worth of range in a matter of 90 seconds at a gas station, it can take many hours to recharge a battery.

And in five years the ICE will lose only a small amount of efficiency, so it will still have that 300 mile range. Just like your laptop and cellphone though, your car battery in five years is likely to only have 60% or so of its capacity, particularly in hot climates and with a lot of short trips meaning lots of recharge cycles. So you may have bought a 300 mile range electric car, figuring that was more than you needed, but now you have a 180 mile range and find the batteries are very expensive.

There's also concern with how much strip mining is required to produce enough batteries to really replace the fleets of entire nations.

We've learned time and time again that its best to allow the market to dictate a transition organically, and you can do so by slowly increasing fossil fuel taxes if need be. This way as gasoline becomes more expensive, the market will naturally switch to alternatives... an alternative that may have NOTHING to do with traditional NIMH or Lithium batteries, and perhaps nothing to do with cars AT ALL, which is the beauty of allowing consumer choice as perhaps this will encourage more work at home programs or mass transit adoption or other lifestyle changes that drastically reduce fossil fuel consumption in unanticipated ways.

So, I think this is very ill advised, and frankly Norway has far more immediate threats to their quality of life than gas powered cars, as they approach cultural, ethnic, and economic genocide. Their environment will suffer if the average education level and per capita GDP declines from $100K to $50K, as they continue to import poverty.
 
Spidey329 said:
Seems like Norway has a government that functions without corporate lobbyists. These bastards! How dare they govern without corruption.
Click to expand...

Norway is cold, cold decreases the efficiency of the battery, and heating the car reduces range even further. If it gets cold enough, it can even damage the battery.
I'm sure this will turn out great.

Don't worry, I'm sure all the government cars will be exempt from this requirement.
 
Electric is far safer then gasoline power. Its funny people are so convinced electric isn't safe somehow. There are anywhere from 60-75% fewer moving parts, and if you get in an accident at any sort of speed I think you would be crazy to want to be flying around with the huge tank of explosive liquid instead.

I'm going to bet the same folks that believe the bats in electric cars are more dangerous then a tank full of gas... have a phone pressed to their faces half the day. If I told you I was going to sell you a gas powered phone that you wouldn't have to worry about filling for a month at a time... would you be in cause it sounds safer ?
 
Last edited:
nutzo said:
Norway is cold, cold decreases the efficiency of the battery, and heating the car reduces range even further. If it gets cold enough, it can even damage the battery.
I'm sure this will turn out great.

Don't worry, I'm sure all the government cars will be exempt from this requirement.
Click to expand...

As someone who lives in a place in Canada with almost identical weather. I can tell you that Gasoline is less efficient in cold weather as well. I burn a good 30-40% more fuel in the winter. We best stop driving I guess. Here our local transit has converted a large portion of the cities bus fleet with no more issues then anyone would expect anywhere else. Where we are if you leave your gasoline powered car outside in the dead of winter and are stupid enough to not plug in your block heater, the car won't be starting. Different tech same issue... same solution. Easy peasy, park it in a garage and when you can't plug in the block heater if its a hybrid... if its an electric just plug it in. Every place like Norway and Canada have no shortage of outside plugs in every parking lot exactly for that purpose.
 
Ducman69 said:
Yes, but no battery has close to the energy density of fossil fuels, and while you can refill 300 miles worth of range in a matter of 90 seconds at a gas station, it can take many hours to recharge a battery.

And in five years the ICE will lose only a small amount of efficiency, so it will still have that 300 mile range. Just like your laptop and cellphone though, your car battery in five years is likely to only have 60% or so of its capacity, particularly in hot climates and with a lot of short trips meaning lots of recharge cycles. So you may have bought a 300 mile range electric car, figuring that was more than you needed, but now you have a 180 mile range and find the batteries are very expensive.
Click to expand...

Don't confuse them with facts... They know what's best for everyone.

Only electric car that could come close to providing the range I need would be a Tesla, and that's way more than I would pay for a car.
It's going to be interesting in a few more years when people have to start replacing the batteries in these cars.

Much better solution for me is a Hybrid. Cost was about 10% more than the non Hybrid, but I get almost twice the mileage in town.
Good mileage on my short commute, plus I can take longer trips without worrying about the range or how long it's going to take to charge.
I usually manage around 500 miles between fill ups, so I save even more by filling up when I'm at Costco.
A plugin Hybrid would work even better for me (for the short commute), but the much higher cost (and the lack of a spare tire and smaller truck space), doesn't make sense for me.
 
ChadD said:
Electric is far safer then gasoline power. Its funny people are so convinced electric isn't safe somehow. There are anywhere from 60-75% fewer moving parts, and if you get in an accident at any sort of speed I think you would be crazy to want to be flying around with the huge tank of explosive liquid instead.

I'm going to bet the same folks that believe the bats in electric cars are more dangerous then a tank full of gas... have a phone pressed to their faces half the day. If I told you I was going to sell you a gas powered phone that you wouldn't have to worry about filling for a month at a time... would you be in cause it sounds safer ?
Click to expand...

Have you ever seen a video of an battery fire? Harder to put out than a gasoline fire.
Just look for the video of the Tesla that caught fire after the battery was damaged by something the driver ran over.
 
ChadD said:
Electric is far safer the gasoline power. Its funny people are so convinced electric isn't safe somehow. There are anywhere from 60-75% fewer moving parts, and if you get in an accident at any sort of speed I think you would be crazy to want to be flying around with the huge tank of explosive liquid instead.

I'm going to bet the same folks that believe the bats in electric cars are more dangerous then a tank full of gas... have one of those things pressed to their faces half the day. If I told you I was going to sell you a gas powered phone that you wouldn't have to worry about filling for a month at a time... would you be in cause it sounds safer ?
Click to expand...

The Billions of cars on the roads for DECADES have proven that a combustion engine is a very safe environment. Now please prove your opinion that Billions of cars will be how much better with a battery? I mean we all know that not a single electronic consumer device has never exploded, right!
Let us worry about the Metropolitan environment before we start talking extreme environmental residence where environmentally, economocally or intellectually the argument is ridiculous in every metric. Please.
 
Afaik, electric car are still safer n that the less likely to explode. Its been ears but i do remember reading it a while back when everyone was freaked out at the first explosion.
 
nutzo said:
Have you ever seen a video of an battery fire? Harder to put out than a gasoline fire.
Just look for the video of the Tesla that caught fire after the battery was damaged by something the driver ran over.
Click to expand...

I can find you 1001 pictures of people melted to seats after gasoline fires as well, one offs prove exactly nothing. If we really want to be morbid I can find you another 101 videos of morons smoking while there pumping. Its a newer tech and the safety will continue to improve just like it continues to do with gasoline powered vehicles. Saying electric is any more unsafe then gasoline powered anything is just wrong. Gasoline cars have had over 100 years to get it right.

A Tesla burned when it hit the wrong thing... ya freak accidents happen. Some of the horror shows of the automobile industry in the past 50 years make that look pretty tame.
 
funkydmunky said:
The Billions of cars on the roads for DECADES have proven that a combustion engine is a very safe environment. Now please prove your opinion that Billions of cars will be how much better with a battery? I mean we all know that not a single electronic consumer device has never exploded, right!
Let us worry about the Metropolitan environment before we start talking extreme environmental residence where environmentally, economocally or intellectually the argument is ridiculous in every metric. Please.
Click to expand...

One Statistic Shows Why Everyone Needs To Relax About The Recent Tesla Fires

So yes some electric cars have caught fire... which shouldn't be all that shocking. Making drive trains capable of moving that much weight takes energy... and we all remember who ever our version of the geeky high school teacher was. Potential energy needs to be stored... and storing that much energy isn't ever going to be perfectly safe. If you really think the one that is created on purpose to explode is safer that is your right I guess.
 
ChadD said:
As someone who lives in a place in Canada with almost identical weather. I can tell you that Gasoline is less efficient in cold weather as well. I burn a good 30-40% more fuel in the winter. We best stop driving I guess. Here our local transit has converted a large portion of the cities bus fleet with no more issues then anyone would expect anywhere else. Where we are if you leave your gasoline powered car outside in the dead of winter and are stupid enough to not plug in your block heater, the car won't be starting. Different tech same issue... same solution. Easy peasy, park it in a garage and when you can't plug in the block heater if its a hybrid... if its an electric just plug it in. Every place like Norway and Canada have no shortage of outside plugs in every parking lot exactly for that purpose.
Click to expand...

If you think batteries in cars are safer you must not know what power dense batteries have a tendency to do: Thermal runaway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The batteries that drive electric cars are not like the lead acid batteries that ICE use. They can go into thermal runaway. I have seen a NiCad (which is not nearly as power dense as electric car batteries) burn through an engine nacelle like a hot knife through butter. Try putting that next to your face. The fumes are incredibly toxic therefore you may die from the smoke before the heat bothers you much.

That being said, electric cars can be every bit as fun to drive as ICE. Tesla cars are wonderful but I don't think the government should interfere with the car market by forcing a change of fuel sources. Isn't it enough that they tax the hell out of gas as it is?

If you want to lower the carbon footprint just as much, with less effort, then require cleaner emissions on tractor trailers that belch a constant flow of unfiltered partially burned diesel fuel into our air. The Dems look the other way on that one thanks to lobbyist money. If you are going to establish an ideology you should at the very least be consistent.
 
ChadD said:
One Statistic Shows Why Everyone Needs To Relax About The Recent Tesla Fires

So yes some electric cars have caught fire... which shouldn't be all that shocking. Making drive trains capable of moving that much weight takes energy... and we all remember who ever our version of the geeky high school teacher was. Potential energy needs to be stored... and storing that much energy isn't ever going to be perfectly safe. If you really think the one that is created on purpose to explode is safer that is your right I guess.
Click to expand...


In ICE it is not an explosion but a controlled burn. An explosion within an ICE is called detonation which does damage to an engine and is a rare malfunction. I am not an engineer with a strong background in ICE but I know enough to discuss the basics.

Look at ratio of miles driven to incident rates of electric cars and how many are on the road compared to tradition ICE cars that have had those issues. You will see that yes, electric cars are more dangerous, but one could argue that is simply because the technology is in earlier stages (related to electric cars at least).
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top