No Penalty For Apple's Non-Compliance With Warranty Ruling

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Bah, we're Apple, we don't have to obey no stinking laws. Especially if you aren't going to enforce them.

Apple's warranty advertisements should be investigated after the company "failed to provide consumers clear, truthful, and complete information about what they are entitled under EU law." "Apple prominently advertised that its products come with a one-year manufacturer warranty but failed to clearly indicate the consumers' automatic and free-of-cost entitlement to a minimum two-year guarantee under EU law," she wrote.
 

Team Obi Juan

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consumers' automatic and free-of-cost entitlement to a minimum two-year guarantee under EU law
 

Absentee

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So every product in the EU is required to come with a two year warranty?

Sounds like the EU should be informing people of this, not putting it off to the companies to do so, then suing them when they don't.
 

faugusztin

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So every product in the EU is required to come with a two year warranty?

Yes, kinda :D. Depends on local legislation, some countries like Slovakia has 2 year minimum warranty with no exceptions. Then there are countries like UK or Hungary, where there is a difference between guarantee (in most cases 1 year) and manufacturer warranty (minimum 2 years).

Sounds like the EU should be informing people of this, not putting it off to the companies to do so, then suing them when they don't.

The issue with Apple is that they were telling people that they give one year guarantee, that is OK. But they were telling people that they need AppleCare if they want guarantee/warranty for more than 1 year, which is what they got punished for - the customer doesn't need to buy AppleCare for 2nd year, because they still got the minimal 2 year EU warranty.
 

Ducman69

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So every product in the EU is required to come with a two year warranty?

Sounds like the EU should be informing people of this, not putting it off to the companies to do so, then suing them when they don't.
It is confusing to the users if they have a two year warranty by law, and yet:
1) Have warranty information printed out with their product that says its a 1 year warranty
2) Have apple charging people for the extended two year warranties
3) From what I hear even denying two year warranty coverage in Italy in particular, for which they were sued.

Personally, I actually like the consumer protection mechanics that are in place in Europe, and this is coming from a laissez-faire economics guy in general. This rule benefits consumers, simplifies claims, leads to better products, reduces waste (cheap products designed to fail within a year that end up in the dump harming the environment), and doesn't interfere with free competition and the like.
 

-Dragon-

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Wait so apple violates EU law and tricks consumers into paying for what they already get for free, basically robbing people, and nothing happens, yet MS forgets to show a browser selection screen for a few months after an update which does shit all since anyone can still download and use their browser of choice anyway and gets fined a few hundred million dollars for it?

Da fuq?
 

dgz

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So every product in the EU is required to come with a two year warranty?

Sounds like the EU should be informing people of this, not putting it off to the companies to do so, then suing them when they don't.

All electronic devices have 2 year warranty here. Yet, a lot of Apple partners are actively lying to people about it, though. Fuck them, it's their (the retailers/distributors) problem Apple only gives them 1 year and they have to cover the rest out of their own pockets. That's what you get when dealing with this shit company.

I'd say most people are aware of the 2 year warranty. It's been like that for many years.
 

sixpac

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Wait so apple violates EU law and tricks consumers into paying for what they already get for free, basically robbing people, and nothing happens, yet MS forgets to show a browser selection screen for a few months after an update which does shit all since anyone can still download and use their browser of choice anyway and gets fined a few hundred million dollars for it?

Da fuq?

Pretty much..

Another reason not to purchase anything apple.
 

Ultima99

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Wait so apple violates EU law and tricks consumers into paying for what they already get for free, basically robbing people, and nothing happens, yet MS forgets to show a browser selection screen for a few months after an update which does shit all since anyone can still download and use their browser of choice anyway and gets fined a few hundred million dollars for it?

Da fuq?

Favoritism.

Too bad MS doesn't get all over this.
 

faugusztin

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Wait so apple violates EU law and tricks consumers into paying for what they already get for free, basically robbing people, and nothing happens,

This one is an ongoing investigation, where some regulators doesn't fine Apple yet. It could escalate to EU level over time.

yet MS forgets to show a browser selection screen for a few months after an update which does shit all since anyone can still download and use their browser of choice anyway and gets fined a few hundred million dollars for it?

They breached the settlement, it is a totally different level.
 

nutzo

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Wait so apple violates EU law and tricks consumers into paying for what they already get for free, basically robbing people, and nothing happens, yet MS forgets to show a browser selection screen for a few months after an update which does shit all since anyone can still download and use their browser of choice anyway and gets fined a few hundred million dollars for it?

Da fuq?

That's what happens when you have a bunch of ibots running things :)
 

Qinsp

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HAHAHA!!! The EU is comedy.

They really don't know how anything works in real life, do they?

Anybody but the EU think product warrantees are free?

"Let's pass a law that forces all consumers to buy a 2 year warranty!!"

"What if the product really doesn't have 2 year life expectancy when used harsely, like something with batteries? You can kill batteries pretty fast if you're an idiot."

"That's what Ebay is for. Have them buy from other countries."
 

faugusztin

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"What if the product really doesn't have 2 year life expectancy when used harsely, like something with batteries? You can kill batteries pretty fast if you're an idiot."

And here we go, talking without even minimal knowledge of the topic.

Warranty (in EU) doesn't cover tear and wear from normal use. Your shoes won't be repaired for free if you run 30km with them every day and you will wear out the bottom of the shoe. But if your shoe fells appart due bad glue being used at manufacturing, then yes, they must honor the warranty in full 2 years.

Same applies to batteries - if you buy a battery, put it away and try to use it 1,5 years later and it won't have any voltage, then it is covered by warranty. If you recharged your rechargable battery 1000 times and the battery is damaged due normal wear, then you cannot RMA the battery.
 

Qinsp

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Drain a battery and store it for 18 months and let know what you think.

Everyone seems to think that "consumer protection" is free. No, it is a constant parasitic loss that escalates every year.

It doesn't affect the rich, only the poor. Why do you think a car is so expensive now?

Walk into a hardware store and look at tools. "Lifetime Guarantee!!" whether it's a $5 POS that breaks the first time you use it, or a $100 wrench set that your grandkids will use.

It's become a joke, and all it does it raise prices. Just a little. Then a little, then a little, then a little ...
 

dgz

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We pay way more for electronics than you do so 2 years warranty is more than justified AND the least companies can do. Why is ensuring certain quality levels of goods a problem for you?
 

Qinsp

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We pay way more for electronics than you do so 2 years warranty is more than justified AND the least companies can do. Why is ensuring certain quality levels of goods a problem for you?

Because it removes your freedom to choose, and hurts the poor more than the rich.

And? For 40 years now, everything has been solid state. If not abused, it either breaks shortly after purchase, or it lasts forever.

The dumps are not filled with BROKEN electronics anymore. They are filled with obsolete electronics. You can't even give away CRT monitors and TV's anymore. Windows Disease kills more computers than true failure.

So you have your quality already, so if you are truly concerned about the environment, don't discard working electronics. RIIIGGGHHHTTT.

Personally, I've got electronics more than 20 years old still in use.
 

[Tripod]MajorPayne

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We pay way more for electronics than you do so 2 years warranty is more than justified AND the least companies can do. Why is ensuring certain quality levels of goods a problem for you?

Why do you pay more for electronics? Could it be a 25% VAT or stringent government regulations that require manufacturers to charge more to keep up with all the inane requirements and red tape? Presumably an equivalent value of Euro is the same as Dollars, so why would suppliers arbitrarily charge EU residents more?
 

faugusztin

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Because it removes your freedom to choose, and hurts the poor more than the rich.

So you are arguing about a sub-5% price increase which is the result of the increased warranty time, and happily ignore the 20-25% VAT in Europe :rolleyes:.
 

dgz

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[Tripod]MajorPayne;1039720731 said:
Why do you pay more for electronics? Could it be a 25% VAT or stringent government regulations that require manufacturers to charge more to keep up with all the inane requirements and red tape? Presumably an equivalent value of Euro is the same as Dollars, so why would suppliers arbitrarily charge EU residents more?

Because they can. It may be hard to believe, but you enjoy low prices on everything. Why? I am not willing to enter such debate. It just is. No need to point fingers.
 

[Tripod]MajorPayne

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Because they can. It may be hard to believe, but you enjoy low prices on everything. Why? I am not willing to enter such debate. It just is. No need to point fingers.

So your argument is that electronics manufacturers simply choose to charge EU residents more because they can, and that the higher prices have nothing to do with the VAT and the higher cost of doing business in the EU due to the government's intense meddling and regulations?

Economics demands that there be a reason for the price hike, and any company that could charge less would secure more of the marketplace, yet all companies merely decide to charge more?

I understand that shipping and retailing in the EU may carry higher costs, but government regulation (in my opinion, over-regulation and arbitrary over-regulation at that) definitely has something to do with your higher retail prices.
 

faugusztin

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95% of the higher price is VAT. You won't see US prices with sales tax online. You will see EU prices without VAT only as a side information. If you see price increase in EU, then it is usually for products which have only 90 day warranty in USA, which is actually other extreme. For example when there is no difference in warranty, US and EU prices are very similar, often even lower than the prices in US - ZR2740w has a price of $680 vs €600 in Germany (= $776 with VAT, $647 without VAT). Because we should compare the correct numbers right ? US price without sales tax versus EU price without VAT.
 

dgz

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[Tripod]MajorPayne;1039721316 said:
So your argument is that electronics manufacturers simply choose to charge EU residents more because they can, and that the higher prices have nothing to do with the VAT and the higher cost of doing business in the EU due to the government's intense meddling and regulations?

Economics demands that there be a reason for the price hike, and any company that could charge less would secure more of the marketplace, yet all companies merely decide to charge more?

I understand that shipping and retailing in the EU may carry higher costs, but government regulation (in my opinion, over-regulation and arbitrary over-regulation at that) definitely has something to do with your higher retail prices.

I agree - that should be it. Yet, there is more to it. Otherwise we wouldn't see Australians being furious with prices of software and other goods that should not cost as much.

And we wouldn't see Valve charging 60 euro for 60 dollar games. How is that VAT? EU made cars costing way less in the US, etc. It's not just electronics.

Was it last month when US ISPs said data caps have nothing to do with network congestion and everything to do with maximizing profits? We don't have caps here and we generally pay less for better internet services. So yes, companies are doing things just because they can. With government help or not.
 
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