No Man's Sky - a procedurally generated sand box space exploration game

Discussion in 'PC Gaming & Hardware' started by Blade-Runner, Dec 8, 2013.

  1. vikingod

    vikingod [H]Lite

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    Thats what I did up to a ship with 30 slots. Can't do more, it's too boring.

    Funny you mentioned Elite: Dangerous. I too have had that game for many months and was motivated to play it. Yesterday I fired it up, got about 10 mins into it, and quit. It's an issue with the controls. I just can't get used to them. Maybe an xbox controller is better for me.
     
  2. damstr

    damstr [H]ard|Gawd

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    I thought this game couldn't get any worse but they seem to keep digging themselves deeper and deeper.
     
  3. Ocellaris

    Ocellaris Ginger @le, an alcoholic's best friend.

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  4. scojer

    scojer 2[H]4U

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    wtf? more than 40 hours and he got a refund? If I invest 40 hours in something, I really like it. 40 minutes, I get. 40 hours? Self-entitled prick, that one.
     
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  5. TaintedSquirrel

    TaintedSquirrel [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It's possible to play 40 hours before realizing (or the community realized) that Sean Murray lied about so many features. Gamers were not sold the advertised product, maybe less than HALF of the advertised product, and due to the nature of the game it can take a long time to figure that out.

    Besides, Hello Games needs to be a sent a strong message about this. Looking at the way Sean was answering questions immediately before and immediately after launch -- Like telling people not to look up the ending on YouTube because of spoilers -- he was trying to soak as many sales as possible before people realized he was a con artist. If people get duped into unrefundable $60 games over this nonsense then it means Sean's marketing strategy worked.

    I say open the flood gates, allow everyone to refund regardless of hours. Sean deserves it for being a pathological liar and everyone at Hello Games deserves it for letting it happen. This disaster of a game should be the end of Hello Games: close the studio and send them back to EA.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2016
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  6. DrLobotomy

    DrLobotomy [H]ardness Supreme

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    I finished COD: Black Ops 2 in 6.5 hours. I need a refund.
     
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  7. scojer

    scojer 2[H]4U

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    I thoroughly enjoy it
     
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  8. DrLobotomy

    DrLobotomy [H]ardness Supreme

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    I keep getting mad at it and then firing it back up to try something then getting re-engrossed into it then 3-4 hours are gone. Then get mad at it and then firing it back up.....

    I don't hate it...I don't love it....but I seem to keep playing it. I'm gonna have to play it for a few months before I decide if I want a refund. :rolleyes:
     
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  9. Ocellaris

    Ocellaris Ginger @le, an alcoholic's best friend.

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    This sounds like most relationships :)
     
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  10. DrLobotomy

    DrLobotomy [H]ardness Supreme

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    Wasn't even thinking about that, but damn, you are right.
     
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  11. exlink

    exlink [H]ardness Supreme

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    I got a refund for my digital PS4 version from Sony. I had about 12 hours into it and was really surprised Sony is processing these refunds since they're usually very strict about their "all sales final" policy for digital games.

    Sorry, this just isn't a $60 game in my opinion - it's $30 at best. Maybe a year down the road all the bugs will be ironed out and there will be enough content to make me interested again.
     
  12. Lmah2x

    Lmah2x Gawd

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    I put in for a refund on Steam with 60 hours played. I want to see if it is provided. This is my 2nd time refunding NMS (initially cancelled my preorder) so I'm not sure if it will happen. I actually like the game, but do think it is overpriced and poorly supported since the dev team is so small. I suggest you refund as well, maybe it will push HelloGames to add back their deleted features. Could always buy it again in the future.
     
  13. Streiw

    Streiw Bad Santa Gifter 2016

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    You bought it twice and played 60 hours? You should be stuck with the game -- because that's absolutely idiotic.
     
  14. Droc

    Droc 2[H]4U

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    he canceled a pre-order.
     
  15. LurkerLito

    LurkerLito 2[H]4U

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    Wow seriously? People played the game for 40 hours or more and want a refund? I agree Sean promised way more than what is in the game, I'd even say he lied fully knowing he couldn't deliver all that he promised, but that still doesn't give you the right to get a refund after you played it for so dam long. If you enjoyed the game enough to spend 40 or more hours you shouldn't get to say I am sick of the game and return it. Sony and the other distributors should strictly enforce the no refunds after 2 hours of playtime. Personally they really should change it to a sliding scale, for each hour of gameplay the refunded amount should be reduced by 1/2 the price paid. That would be more fair to the developer than the current one sided system. They give you a pretty overly dam generous 2 hour window to figure out if it's working for you, if you couldn't figure it out in that time frame that the game wasn't what you were expecting then that is your problem. You BOUGHT the game, you didn't RENT it.

    For the record, I haven't played the game since Deus Ex MD was released. The last time I was kind of sick of it but there was not a moment of that time that I said, dam that Sean guy I didn't see half the crap he promised in the 10-20 hours I played the game so I want a refund. I knew the first hour that some of the stuff I was doing would get old and I knew that I hated some other parts like the horrid inventory system of not stacking everything, but I still felt I liked the game enough that I could actually spend a good amount of time in it exploring. Even if I never played it again I still got at least 10 hours of entertainment, so that's $6 an hour, a very high rate for a game IMHO, but it was my decision to buy the game at $60. Sean might have enticed me with promises that will never get fulfilled, but I read the reviews, I watched the let's play videos, I bought the game and played it long enough to say I don't deserve a refund because I enjoyed it for the time I had played it ( FYI, since I bought it from GoG I am still entitled to get one as of today since their refund policy is actually kind of insane 30days lol).
     
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  16. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    Agreed. I understand that it took more then a couple of hours to realize the game didn't have a lot of things people thought it would have.. But if you sat around in the first solar system enjoying yourself for that long.. You still got value out of the game. I got 24 hours out of no man's sky and that's still more then I got out of Battlefront 3.
     
  17. TaintedSquirrel

    TaintedSquirrel [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You're all missing the point.
    It's not about enjoyment hours but the fact that they didn't deliver the product they promised. What if someone spent 40 hours flying around looking for another player? Even after release, Sean was confronted on Twitter about that specific issue and he still dodged.

    Here's my favorite quote from Sean's blog:
     
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  18. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    I 100% completely agree.

    But once you start pegging over 20+ hours played - give me a break. You still had some level of enjoyment. All the lack of features were known before the PC release as well since the PS4 release had been out.
     
  19. TaintedSquirrel

    TaintedSquirrel [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Is the line drawn at 10 hours, 20 hours, 40 hours? And remember when you submit the refund request, it has to be manually approved by a person, so it all depends on convincing the CS rep that you were misled. So it just depends on whether or not they think you deserve a refund.

    If Sony is issuing refunds at 40 hours, then it either means people are preying on generous/incompetent CS reps or Sony has decided that NMS is a steaming pile.
     
  20. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    I only have 24 hours and I won't submit a refund request as i'm adult enough to realize that I still enjoyed the game for that period of time. It's not as if I spent 24 hours not having fun / fixing technical issues / etc.

    I'm sure there are some people who may have spent a decent amount of time trying to fix technical issues / etc, but you know for a fact there are numerous people requesting refunds just because they are now bored with the game. That's BS.
     
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  21. Dahkoht

    Dahkoht Limp Gawd

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    Sean brought this upon himself. First with the dodgy answers and lies leading all the way up to and POST launch.

    Worse though is how he's handling it afterwards. Silence. Dead silence other than a couple stupid "amazing" tweets that he's now made fun of even more for.

    Daily there are multiple posts of huge fanboy defenders on Steam and reddit saying "I'm sorry I defended this piece of shit , he lied" types.

    Sony and Steam aren't in a vacuum , they see Sean has gone into hiding , and that basically points to confirmation of lying.

    His choice to not answer questions and defend it , (probably because there's no way to do it with all the video evidence).

    If he was at least trying though, the refund policy by Steam and Sony to give the money back for anyone who puts in a polite ticket probably wouldn't have been put into place.

    Lied pre launch , and hides post launch ?

    Geting what he deserves.

    He's an adult , all the "socially awkward indi developer" excuses are laughable. He managed to do all those videos and TV performances for years , he can get on reddit/boards/twitter and actually DIRECTLY answer some questions.

    But he's smart enough to know he's caught , so he's just hiding. And Sony and Steam see the inside player hours likely dropping off a cliff more than any other game in years on either platform , and thus chose their customers over him.

    They see whats up.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016
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  22. krakerman

    krakerman Limp Gawd

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    Pretty much this. Sony (and Steam etc.) wouldn't be issuing these refunds in violation of their stated policy if customers didn't have some legitimate reasons behind their requests. If the released game matched the marketing, I guarantee you they wouldn't be approving these late refunds - that they are indicates they know the advertising and lead-up to this game's release amounted to false advertising. Customers are legitimately making the argument that promised features weren't present in the game and that the advertising on Steam's product page doesn't match the in-game experience. This is legit, and I am not sure why people are defending the game saying this practice is wrong.

    It blows my mind that the apologists in here can't just admit at this point that Sean Murray lied through his teeth, and that Sony and Steam taking returns on this game at this point is confirmation of that (news flash: they wouldn't be giving people their money back unless they had to).

    For the folks saying 20 hours is too much play time to refund blah blah - seriously? You are suggesting that as long as Sean Murray and Hello Games can fool their customers for a set number of hours before the facade falls away then their customers should have no recourse. If this game shipped in a boring but complete state per Sean Murray's promises I would agree, but time and time again it has been shown that Sean Murray intentionally lied to potential customers to get them to buy the game. How can some of you not see that? How do you not understand that lies and misinformation give customers a right to recourse after your precious little two hour limit? Fucking hell people.
     
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  23. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    Because I had fun that entire 24 hours. Yes - he lied. It's not Elite; But I still used the product and had fun doing it.
     
  24. Dahkoht

    Dahkoht Limp Gawd

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    Steam pulled the title completely off the Best Sellers list.

    As in not on it through the thousand or so games on it. It didn't drop off the list , it got pulled.

    You can search "No Man's Sky" on the Steam Best Sellers list and find zero results.

    They don't do that unless they have decided the game is a special case of fraudulent/bad/incomplete whatever , and I think I'll trust Steam's judgment on that.
     
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  25. scojer

    scojer 2[H]4U

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    So If I log a lot of hours in call of duty 27 and realize That it is the same stinking pile as the other 26 before it, I can get a refund? Even If I played for a full work week? Just because I got bored?

    No. If I wanted a refund for his lies then I would of either not bought it or got a refund within 30 minutes.

    Just to be clear, I am not defending the game. I'm Just saying it is ridiculous That it is being refunded after That time frame.
     
  26. krakerman

    krakerman Limp Gawd

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    Good, I am glad you had fun playing for 24 hours. That's really great. But just because you don't mind being lied to or not having features of the game present that you based your purchasing decision on doesn't mean that other people feel the same way. This isn't about you and whether or not you feel fine with your purchase. It is about other people who feel pissed they were lied to and didn't receive the game they paid good money but instead a game lacking content and features that were advertised. You are more than welcome to feel great about your purchase (and I am glad you do), but just because you are fine with your purchase doesn't mean everyone else has to be happy as well.
     
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  27. krakerman

    krakerman Limp Gawd

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    And when those lies become apparent after 30 minutes? Or after 2 hours? Or after 20 hours?

    Does some of the blame here lie with consumers? Yes, they swallowed Sean Murray's shit hook, line, and sinker. But at the end of the day Sean Murray built this game's sales on a foundation of lies, and now people are becoming aware of the full scope of the issue. This isn't a normal "I don't like this game, it's boring" situation - it is fraud and false advertising. That is what makes it different and why companies are willing to give refunds this late in the game. If the game worked as advertised but was boring, I guarantee you this wouldn't be happening.
     
  28. krakerman

    krakerman Limp Gawd

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    Wow, that is pretty telling.

    Edit: just looked at the Steam product page and the rating has dropped down to 43%, with tons of negative reviews coming in from people who have sunk considerable time into the game.

    If this had been $30 or less and was offered as early access, I think it would be okay and the response completely different. Sean Murray's lies aside, I wonder if Hello Games are regretting their decision to get in bed with Sony on this. They sold a ton of copies, but their reputation is utterly trashed at this point.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016
  29. LurkerLito

    LurkerLito 2[H]4U

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    Sean lied about the multiplayer capabilities, sure, but as far as I remember the game was always said be first and foremost a single player game. To get 40 hours out of any game then request a refund is just as scummy as Sean for lying. Even if all the networking code was actually there and the multiplayer features were in place, the fact that it could take you 40 hours of single player game play to get to that point means you played a majority of the game willingly and got some entertainment value from it. You are not entitled to a refund cause that was the main portion of the game. The game was never billed as a MMO it was always said that player encounters would be extremely rare so you should have known that you might never actually ever meet another live person in game.

    Just to be fair Sean did post this on the 8th of August 2 days before the PS4 launch and 4 days before the PC launch on twitter:
    And at launch of the game on PS4, the PS4 incident took place that should have clued you in that multiplayer was at best completely broken.

    It is not being an apologist but even steam shows the game as being only single player. Not sure if that was changed recently cause multiplayer was covered up by a sticker as a feature on the NMS PS4 box, but it is clearly marked as such now. No Man's Sky on Steam

    Regardless of what the dev says in interviews, you should always check the specs of the game at launch. I do and if they took off single player the day it was released and it was multiplayer only I'd have gotten a refund the same day I found out. I do get the outrage, I am still pissed off about some other games that have "single player" listed when clearly was put in as an after thought like Ark Survival. Do I get a refund for that because I bought it for the single player even after 16 hours of play before I figured out that their definition of "single player" means you can play the "multi player" balanced game without other people? The single player experience is terrible because you have to do the work of a clan of people so you can't get enough experience points for skills you need without enabling cheats because it was never balanced for a solo player. This incident is exactly the same except as far as I can see the specs don't mislead you as it is listed now unlike other games like Ark Survival that do mislead you on the actual specs.
     
  30. krakerman

    krakerman Limp Gawd

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    Sean Murray has not once clarified whether the game is multiplayer or not. Sean Murray even leaves the vague possibility open in that quote with the bit about the chances being pretty much zero. He didn't have to say that but he chose to, likely to not fully commit to multiplayer being absent. Yes, Steam's page says no multiplayer and has for a while, but this contradicts the vague statements and lack of clarity provided by Sean Murray who is not just a company employee but the owner and lead on this project. His words do matter and as a consumer my inclination would be to trust him over a potential mistake on the Steam page.

    You are completely right that the game wasn't billed as an MMO, but Sean Murray intentionally left open the possibility for players to run across each other. If he would have slammed that door shut pre-launch he would have avoided probably half the shitstorm that has been brewing around this game.

    As far as being entitled to a refund or not - you are most certainly entitled to a refund if the advertising for a product does not match the product's functionality. This isn't just about multiplayer with No Man's Sky, and everywhere you look there are missing features and evidence of Sean Murray's outright lies (portals? atomic physics? functionally different ship classes? etc.). Are some people taking advantage of the situation to get a refund - of course. But given the circumstances of so many features missing and broken promises made, I'd rather see that happen than have huge numbers of people screwed out of their money by a liar.

    I am truly baffled by why so many people seem to want to defend Sean Murray and Hello Games on this. Is it because they are indie studio? That excuse went out the window when they charged $60 for the game and got a massive company to back them. Is it because they are a small team? Again, that goes out the window when you start charging big kid prices. Is it buyer's remorse? What is it that makes people want to defend Sean Murray and Hello Games like this?
     
  31. Dahkoht

    Dahkoht Limp Gawd

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    At no point has Sean every said "no you cannot see another player in game".

    It's always , always , "chances rare , almost zero , etc etc"

    He for some reason can't just tell the truth about it and say "No you cannot see other players in game ,period. There are no player models , there is no chance of players seeing each other. End of story" Instead he has to spew his own shit.

    Steam , Sony , and toss in Amazon now (live chat gets your refunds on Amazon now ) , have decided this is a product into that fraudulent category.

    If that isn't where's there's smoke there's fire , I'm not sure what is.
     
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  32. evilsofa

    evilsofa [H]ardForum Junkie

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    "I want a refund for my hamburger!"
    "Why?"
    "It was cold and tasted awful!"
    "Okay, where's the hamburger?"
    "I ate it."
     
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  33. Dahkoht

    Dahkoht Limp Gawd

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    Said hamburger was said to be beef , turns out it was horsemeat.

    Refund deserved.

    Again , Steam , Sony and Amazon all seem to be siding with the ones who aren't happy over the apologists , and it's their $$$ they are losing on sales.

    I think there might be something to that.
     
  34. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders 2[H]4U

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    The rumors about the retailers giving out refunds willy nilly are unfounded. In fact there is even a blurb on the Steam store page about "no special exemptions from the refund policy": No Man's Sky on Steam
     
  35. TaintedSquirrel

    TaintedSquirrel [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Oh I'm sure that's going to do wonders for the game's sales, a big orange box that says "NO SPECIAL REFUNDS!" Also the fact that they completely pulled it off the Best Seller list.
    I think the next step after this is for Steam to completely take it off the store, lmao.
     
  36. Dahkoht

    Dahkoht Limp Gawd

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    How is it that many players can show their profile with far more than two hours played but the game is now unowned ?

    Of course they dont give out automatic refunds and dont want anyone thinking that , but there are tons of folks who have far more than 2 hours played but the game gone now.

    Again , submit a polite ticket , and they'll refund the money.

    So why again did Steam completely nuke it from the top sellers list ? The list that goes back years and far less sales than No Mans Sky ?

    That policy statement lets anyone who buys it from now on they are buying a potentially shitty game and no refunds on it will be coming past two hours. They don't want to have to keep giving refunds forever for new buyers now that the cat is out of the bag on tons of others getting refunds.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016
  37. krakerman

    krakerman Limp Gawd

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    A quote directly from Steam's stated refund policy: "There are more details below, but even if you fall outside of the refund rules we’ve described, you can ask for a refund anyway and we’ll take a look." I assume you just didn't bother to read it?
     
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  38. polonyc2

    polonyc2 [H]ard as it Gets

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    sounds a bit like the Arkham Knight fiasco where the game was pulled from Steam altogether and re-released months later...No Man's Sky isn't that bad but it definitely deserves the criticism it is receiving from the majority of people...I keep hearing people say the game is worth $30 etc...to me if a game does not interest me then I don't care what the price is...I had my eye on the game since it was first announced but knowing what the game is now I have little to no desire to play at any price

    the fact that even Sony is giving refunds says a lot...they never give refunds...ever
     
  39. LurkerLito

    LurkerLito 2[H]4U

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    I am the exact opposite on this particular issue I can't believe people support letting people play a game for 40+ hours and still be allowed a refund. It's not supporting of Sean or Hello Games, their next offering will be extremely scrutinized after this fiasco and Sean going into hiding rather than making a clear statement is a major cluster fuck if I have ever seen one. While I usually side with consumer complaints this one just reeks of abuse. People played it for many hours then got bored, now they are going after what Sean said in his PR statements rather than what was written on the actual steam page as the game being single player only, then complaining the game has no multiplayer so they can get a refund. This is going to just be abused by many for illegitimate reasons. I am sure the majority of the refunders are exactly what polonyc2 said "I keep hearing people say the game is worth $30 etc..." but they can't say that to get a refund so they are all going to say the same thing that maybe a few people who actually legitimately thought the game had multiplayer capabilities.