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No Man's Sky - a procedurally generated sand box space exploration game
- Thread starter Blade-Runner
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Hopefully not, would rather not have a bunch of whiny hold-outs buy the game at a cheap price then flood the internet with how they "knew they would be disappointed" and will still complain about the price they paid for it.
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That's exactly what would happen. It's obvious these "hold-outs" A) wouldn't like the game anyway and B) don't have any intention of buying it either. More fun for them to hate it I think. If you don't like "boring exploring games" then why the fuck come into a thread for one, and bitch about it? Oh well... Whenever this is brought up, they shift the focus to the ethics surrounding Sean Murray or some such bullshit.
Post-patch the game runs flawlessly. I've seen much of what was in the preview footage in the game at this point, it plays like I expected it to, and if it improves game-wise going forward, then I have to say there's nothing bad about it. Unless of course you don't like this type of game, and then why the fuck bother talking about it?
Maybe start a "Hating No Man's Sky and You" thread or something.
Sure, the rough start and PR handling deserved a bit of criticism. I'll agree with that. At this point though, it's beyond all that. The game is fixed. Other than a few small items, it works as advertised. I have every reason to believe they'll patch out the few remaining issues, maybe figure out what's happening with the MP aspects or instancing or whatever's going on there, as well.
I'll probably get called an apologist again for this, but really, it's better than being a habitual bitcher about something one has no intention of allowing themselves to enjoy or purchase anyway.
Post-patch the game runs flawlessly. I've seen much of what was in the preview footage in the game at this point, it plays like I expected it to, and if it improves game-wise going forward, then I have to say there's nothing bad about it. Unless of course you don't like this type of game, and then why the fuck bother talking about it?
Maybe start a "Hating No Man's Sky and You" thread or something.
Sure, the rough start and PR handling deserved a bit of criticism. I'll agree with that. At this point though, it's beyond all that. The game is fixed. Other than a few small items, it works as advertised. I have every reason to believe they'll patch out the few remaining issues, maybe figure out what's happening with the MP aspects or instancing or whatever's going on there, as well.
I'll probably get called an apologist again for this, but really, it's better than being a habitual bitcher about something one has no intention of allowing themselves to enjoy or purchase anyway.
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MavericK
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Who are you even talking to? Many of us here said the game looked interesting for ~$20 but not for $60. I think you're preaching to the wrong choir.
There are a lot of idiots on Reddit and whatnot for sure but I haven't seen too many in this thread.
I do see a lot of hand-waving about Sean Murray's bullshit...the fact of that matter is that he lied. Numerous outlets have corroborated this, it's really not debatable at this point. How you choose to react to it is up to you, but the fact is that he did lie about a number of things regarding the game.
DWolvin
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I saw my first multi-creature herd yesterday, with a large predator chasing them. It was hilarious, the prey were so much faster than the predator that they would run about ten seconds and then go back to idle / grazing behavior. Then the big fat predator would get in their panic zone and the stampede would start again. If the planet wasn't so annoying with just shy of extreme in both radiation and toxin I would have homesteaded a while.
cageymaru
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Zero Punctuation "No Man's Sky" review.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/116922-No-Mans-Sky-Review
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/116922-No-Mans-Sky-Review
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I'm speaking in general, and not at any one particular person. Some people have gone out of their way to nitpick though, and it just makes me curious what they get out of it. I'm am not under the illusion/delusion that everyone needs to like this game. If you don't cool. If you do, cool. But what does someone get by sticking around and picking it apart, or posting every video they can find about people that hate the game. Oh look, someone else hates the game! Well, good for them. I'll form my own opinion.
My comments on the holdouts is that they don't REALLY seem to want what the game has to offer, so why hold out for a lower price at all? Move on, play something that's more appealing? I get that people find exploration boring. Cool, why hang out in a thread about a game that is almost 100% exploration and detract from it? That's all I'm questioning.
And maybe I should have worded my post a bit differently as well. I think I did in fact use one notch too much zeal, so I'm going to dial it back a notch.
IMO this is an exploration game, that happens to have a few other aspects to round out the play a bit. I never once got the impression that the space combat would be Star Citizen grade, or that the building would be Minecraft or Terraria grade. What I got from everything they released was that this would be a game where exploration would be the main focus, and that it would have some combat, some resource gathering, possibly a bit of building, minimal persistent universe, etc. The one thing I'm a bit disappointed by though is that people aren't able to see another player. That's the one sticking point that bugs me, but based on all the work they're still dumping into this, I'm wondering if they had to pull it, work on it a bit more, and patch it back in to meet the release. If so, they should have just said so, but whatever. The rest of the game, and the main focus of the game seems pretty well inline now. Basically, what the issues scream at me is "we wanted to delay the game X amount, but Sony pushed for X-n amount. We wanted to push it out even further, but weren't able, so we had to do our best, wing it, hope nobody noticed while we quietly fixed everything, and now it's too late..." even though all the issues are getting fixed. I would be willing to bet that if they COULD have pushed the game out further, they WOULD have. I get the feeling that their hand was forced somewhat, and maybe not just by Sony, but the community as well. I think they important thing is that they've reacted quickly, fixed the big stuff, are working on the little stuff, and have stated that they will start on improving the game immediately after the fixes are complete. In the meantime the game is pretty fun.
My opinion of course...
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I finally saw a bit of that as well, along with some fairly large animals. I found a very lush, very mild environment planet with laid-back sentinels. I've made it my new base of operations. It's got plenty of resources, and the Korvax are the ones in the installations and who the monoliths are from. Which is my favored faction. I'm in great standing with everyone so far, but they're the most interesting to me. I've decided to stick around this system for a while (it also has an anomaly station) and see what I can get done here before moving on. I picked up a really cool ship last night, maxed out my warp drive's fuel, so when I'm ready to leave I can jump a few systems out. I'd like to actually upgrade all of my engines before I do.
Yeah the people making the 5 posts a day, every day, "I told u gais the game would suck, k. The game sucks" about a game they had no interest in playing anyway. Like, after a few posts, the point's been made, nothing particularly insightful or profound is being added, no light is being shined on anything previously unknown and the repeated posts become little more than an expression of autism if not a cry for help.
Plus I want that much free time.
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Yeah I could use that much free time too.
I squeeze in posts while I'm between tasks at work.8000+ posts in a little over 3 years?...I think you have plenty of free time...way too much
my in-depth knowledge is too profound for the internet...I should be teaching gaming at MIT
GOD'SlittleSERVANT
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I have less free time than all of you. 6,316 posts in 15 years. Take that.
you win!
I just don't understand why so many are giving Murray a pass in being a blatant liar.
Watch the Total Biscuit , Angry Joe , or myriad of other videos on YouTube that show that Clinton and Trump have told less lies in the past year than this guy.
Is it just ok because he's "indie" it's ok to be a complete bullshitter and tell blatant lies to sell your product ?
Watch the Total Biscuit , Angry Joe , or myriad of other videos on YouTube that show that Clinton and Trump have told less lies in the past year than this guy.
Is it just ok because he's "indie" it's ok to be a complete bullshitter and tell blatant lies to sell your product ?
GOD'SlittleSERVANT
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If anything, being "indie" should have the complete opposite impact.
the fans of the game don't want to hear negative comments and only want a love-fest...if you post negative comments then you will get scolded...I said it earlier but I didn't realize the extent of his lies until watching the videos you mentioned...they clearly show Murray in earlier videos blatantly lying at worst or telling vague half truths at best...player base is dying out in record numbers so I'm not sure if history will remember this game fondly...although I'm sure fans will point to the sales numbers which I'm sure are decent due to pre-orders...the game showed the potential of a massive universe but the execution was not good...maybe a positive to take from this game is that another developer can take these ideas and develop the game this could have been
No idea, nobody here has given the guy a pass.
relapse808
[H]ard|Gawd
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I wont give sean murray a pass. What he did get is 60 dollars. But like a slimy used cars salesman you will not be a repeat customer due to the lies.
ChoGGi
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Personally I watched the E3 2014 trailer and then stopped paying any attention to it (that I could), so I got the game I was expecting.
I do think $40 would've been a better price point, at least just to quell the complaints.
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GOD'SlittleSERVANT
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<< 234 posts
Damn you!
He's gotten tons of bad PR from multiple outlets and reviews, I don't really think he's getting a free pass. Any game he works on from now on will be heavily scrutinized as they will always mention NMS in relation to his name. That is, unless he makes amazing games from here on out. I mean, anything is possible, but I really don't think he's getting the free pass you think he is.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I get the distinct sense that he was in over his head, and didn't necessarily lie, so much as promise things he thought he could deliver, but really couldn't.
Basically, I'm making the distinction here between him lying and merely being wrong. He was obviously wrong, and this has informed my decision not to buy the game at full price.
I feel this way because, as a developer of software myself, I can totally imagine this happening to me. It's real easy, as a programmer, to imagine generally how you'd implement a given feature, which leads to the impression, if you don't know any better, that that feature would be easy to add. I got the distinct impression that this may have been Murray's first project of this scale, and/or his first project where he was the design lead. If that's the case, it's not difficult for me to imagine him making some rookie mistakes like this, and for that, I'm willing to cut him some slack.
I'm still interested in playing the game eventually, but it sounds like more of a $20 or $30 impulse buy game than a "buy this at full price and feel good about it" masterpiece like say, Witcher 3 is.
lilbabycat
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I highly suggest the deep space / dark space mod. Completely changes the overall visuals of the game while in space...it feels like space now.
The low flight mod is nice but you have to pay attention to your flying, can't set your ship off in one direction and go take a piss. Would be nice if there was a toggle.
I'm currently on a planet that has tons of distress signal stations so I'm upgrading my ship slot after slot, the inventory jenga is annoying as hell (i really should just cheat, but I don't like cheating, even in a SP game).
The low flight mod is nice but you have to pay attention to your flying, can't set your ship off in one direction and go take a piss. Would be nice if there was a toggle.
I'm currently on a planet that has tons of distress signal stations so I'm upgrading my ship slot after slot, the inventory jenga is annoying as hell (i really should just cheat, but I don't like cheating, even in a SP game).
MavericK
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I agree that he probably wasn't malicious in what he did, but I think two things happened:
1) He said a lot of things were going to be in the game that ended up not being feasible/whatever.
2) He didn't correct any of this misinformation when it became clear those features were not going to be in the game.
That, coupled with his bizarre deflections and behavior on Twitter when the no-MP issue was called out, makes him 100% culpable IMO.
DWolvin
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My last planet had a decent number of crashed ships- I wold just fix the engines and shield (to stop the alarm), and break down everything else and then got find another ship. Did that until I got bored and found a ship good enough looking to go explore for a while.
Thanks for the heads up on deep space // dark space- I was looking at that but on the fence. I'm loving the low flight- makes landing so much more precise, and seems to revert to normal planetary entry (or hasn't crashed me yet).
Thanks for the heads up on deep space // dark space- I was looking at that but on the fence. I'm loving the low flight- makes landing so much more precise, and seems to revert to normal planetary entry (or hasn't crashed me yet).
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Deleted member 83233
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I would tend to agree with this. Different people behave differently under this type of pressure. I think things were probably coasting along just fine for a small-studio-large-scale-indie-project, and then things just got way out of hand. Some people can manage that sort of situation, others clam up, others pretend it's not happening, yada yada. Doesn't really excuse him completely, but I can easily see him just not knowing how the fuck to handle it. And if this is really the case, they're doing a decent job of bouncing back from it IMO. (timely patches, plans for improvement, etc.)
I imagine this is the general scenario, but where it crosses into unacceptable behavior (at least to me) is when it ends up costing people money. This is a bigger picture issue with pre-orders and getting what was promised, but even day one buyers etc. who buy at full price expecting one experience in this case find out they got an entirely different one. If Sean would have clarified things it would have gone a long way to preventing the PR mess they have on their hands (though I wonder if his hands were tied by Sony). Anyway, there is the one side of cutting him some slack as a person who got in over his head, and the other side of acknowledging that for many consumers that doesn't matter - all that does are the promised features, game delivered, and money spent.
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Deleted member 83233
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I'm not disagreeing with you completely, but everyone wanted this game to be something different than the next person. There were some features that were "promised" and I use the term lightly that yeah, didn't quite make it. Happens all the time with games, but whatever. Not making any excuses for them. Then there was a metric fuck ton of stuff that people thought they remembered someone saying that might have once been a feature that someone suggested could quite possibly make it into the game if they hear correctly. These are widely being held up as things that were "promised" (not saying anyone here is doing that) and basically, no matter what, the devs aren't going to win. Once again, I know Sean handled things in a weird, non-transparent, goofy, inexperienced way, and people have a right to complain a bit, but it is so far blown out of proportion that I don't know what to tell you.
The game works. It's fun. (if you like what it has to offer in the first place) It looks good after the patches. (once again subjective since it's heavily stylized) 90% of what they talked about pre-release is in the game or coming soon. 10% is either possibly coming soon, broken for whatever reason, or maybe just ended up not working out. Maybe Sean should have just come out and said it, but there's about a million and three reasons why possibly he didn't. Not the least of which being he just plain doesn't know how he should do it, because he still really never expected it to take off like this in the first place.
The game is a hell of a lot better than a lot of other games that cost $60. Even with its flaws or omissions it still more polished than much of what's out there. If you don't think the game is worth your $60 then don't buy it. Millions of people buy the latest CoD for $60 and think nothing of it, and the games are largely crap. (IMO of course) I'd pay $60 for NMS before I'd pay $30 for one of those.
The game works. It's fun. (if you like what it has to offer in the first place) It looks good after the patches. (once again subjective since it's heavily stylized) 90% of what they talked about pre-release is in the game or coming soon. 10% is either possibly coming soon, broken for whatever reason, or maybe just ended up not working out. Maybe Sean should have just come out and said it, but there's about a million and three reasons why possibly he didn't. Not the least of which being he just plain doesn't know how he should do it, because he still really never expected it to take off like this in the first place.
The game is a hell of a lot better than a lot of other games that cost $60. Even with its flaws or omissions it still more polished than much of what's out there. If you don't think the game is worth your $60 then don't buy it. Millions of people buy the latest CoD for $60 and think nothing of it, and the games are largely crap. (IMO of course) I'd pay $60 for NMS before I'd pay $30 for one of those.
It takes mental gymnastics to excuse one particular lie though.
He blamed "server overload" after the PS4 launch , but before the PC launch as to why two players couldn't see each other.
He knew at that moment no multiplayer was in and also knew if he told the truth there would be massive amounts of preorders cancelled only a couple days before PC launch plus tons of others wouldn't buy it on day one.
So while being directly asked why the two PS4 players couldn't see each other he chose to lie.
Not sure how anyone can spin that as a programmer not knowing how to handle PR.
Sounds to me like he knew the choice was between many more dollars in sales in a couple days or telling the truth.
He blamed "server overload" after the PS4 launch , but before the PC launch as to why two players couldn't see each other.
He knew at that moment no multiplayer was in and also knew if he told the truth there would be massive amounts of preorders cancelled only a couple days before PC launch plus tons of others wouldn't buy it on day one.
So while being directly asked why the two PS4 players couldn't see each other he chose to lie.
Not sure how anyone can spin that as a programmer not knowing how to handle PR.
Sounds to me like he knew the choice was between many more dollars in sales in a couple days or telling the truth.
Did he ever actually say that, though?
The quotes I can find talk about how the game is played in a "shared universe" and that the servers were experiencing a great deal of traffic, and how impressed he was with the people who had built the network enabled features of the game.
I'm not seeing anywhere where he actually says "Oh, yeah, under normal circumstances, you'd be able to see other players standing there with you, but the servers are overloaded right now." Instead, he was clearly evasive about this, but he didn't say anything actually untrue, that I can find. My Google-fu is kind weak today, though.
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Some of the things people are calling him out on I think are valid, but there is a ton of it that I also don't know that he ever came right out and said. People keep using the word promise. Like ANY dev ANYWHERE would ever say "I PROMISE you'll get this feature!!!"
No game ever ships with everything. In fact, this game shipped with more that was talked about pre-release than... oh... I don't know, the entire Ubisoft catalog? I'm picking on Ubi, but seriously. Nothing comes out exactly as it was prototyped. I think people are just pissed because they heard too much (more than what they used to at least) during the dev cycle,) and don't understand that things get cut, or have to be patched, etc.On the other hand, maybe Sean shouldn't have talked too much until later in the dev cycle, or showed off on TV, etc. etc. I think he was probably just caught up in it all though. It's not like he's the head of Bethesda, Epic, id, DICE or something. He's got a handful of people making what they THOUGHT was going to be an impressive indie game, then it got picked up by Sony, started impressing people, expectations went through the roof.
Honestly, the game did not turn out THAT much differently than what they said it would be. People are just vocal when something isn't exactly what they want it to be. Everything gets blown out of proportion. The only thing I can fault him/them on is being evasive, and there's probably decent reasons for that even.
Not only that though. They worked on this AND the PS4 version simultaneously with a small studio. Both are X86 sure, but I'm sure they had to scale back some of the game for it to perform correctly on the PS4. I bet after Sony put their hand in, the PS4 version became the focus. That doesn't excuse them releasing the PC version quite in the state it was in, but I'm sure this had something to do with it. Then they scrambled and got the patches out, and now things are pretty nice. People will still just keep complaining though.
You can hate Sean. I don't care. I don't know him. I doubt he killed anyone's mother though. Fuck it. They had some issues, and they fixed most of them in the first week. Seems ok to me.
the politician in him is strong. There is a truth that he knew the question and not answering with sales on the line is the same as lieing to get gain
A true honest developer would have just come out and said. No multiplayer. And apologized for the missed feature
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Deleted member 83233
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Maybe so, but unless you're in his position, it's much easier said than done. I don't disagree with you, and he should have just said it like it is, and then said "we plan to patch it in with a free DLC" or something. But unless you're actually the one under the gun, in over your head, have a major publisher checking in on you, ravenous pre-release "fans"? I really think it's a little more complex than that. Again, I agree with you on what he SHOULD have done, but things are different when it's you.
Youn
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He's a typical yes-man, either scared shit-less to disappoint someone staring him in the face or just lets the excitement go to his head... I know some people like this and they typically walk away feeling pretty drained thinking "WTH did I just say that, stupid stupid stupid"... don't be too hard on these folks, they probably don't make friends very easily as they make tons of plans that they can never meet, just don't let them be PR/salespersons and save them some grief by telling them to their face "or let's just see what happens"
Frraksurred
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How many pages of:
"The game sucks" / "IDK, I'm enjoying it"
"He's a blatant liar!" / "He was perhaps over enthusiastic about his creation"
...is this thread going to devolve into?
Stop your bickering and go 'nade teraform a dick-butt (or something) into the surface of your next 'High Security' planet and take screen caps from the air.
"The game sucks" / "IDK, I'm enjoying it"
"He's a blatant liar!" / "He was perhaps over enthusiastic about his creation"
...is this thread going to devolve into?
Stop your bickering and go 'nade teraform a dick-butt (or something) into the surface of your next 'High Security' planet and take screen caps from the air.
I think there are two issues here, and they get conflated frequently when talking about this game and its release.
The first is what Sean potentially was dealing with that led to him being evasive, led to things he talked about either not appearing in the game, needing to be patched in, or not being what people built them up to be in their heads. I am sure he has tremendous pressure on him from Sony, and also from the increased scrutiny of the game taking off in a way I am sure he never dreamed possible. That's all understandable, but is a story about a single person who is the 'victim' of their own success in a sense.
The second issue is that, regardless of the first issue, Sean being evasive compounded confusion about the game exponentially and directly led to people having false expectations about what the game is up to and past launch day. His evasiveness essentially amounts to lying by omission (whether that is his intent or not), and the game features he was evasive about (ie multiplayer) were central to some peoples' interest in the game. Regardless of whether or not consumers should have known the game wasn't multiplayer, the sheer amount of confusion surrounding this necessitated a clarification from the devs and that was something Sean completely refused to do (I suspect due to some restrictions from Sony, but in the end the reason isn't really important from the consumer's perspective).
Both of these issues can be true, and the fact that Sean was probably caught between a rock and a hard place doesn't mean people need to be happy that they effectively got the runaround on some pretty key features of the game. Is this all Sean Murray's fault? No, of course not. No way in hell was I going to pre-order this game, in large part because I wasn't sure what I was actually buying. Scouring the internet, for instance, in the months before release didn't yield a definitive answer for whether the game had multiplayer, and regardless of how you feel about that aspect of a game it is pretty bizarre if you can't find specifics on it. Anyway, had consumers waited for reviews and for accounts from people who actually played the game before pre-ordering or buying in general we wouldn't have the shitstorm we have now. On the other hand, had Sean been more open about what the game actually was I am also sure we wouldn't have the shitstorm we have now. It goes both ways, but I tend to side with the consumers who feel duped.
Edit: Also not pointing this at you J3RK, you just happened to be the latest post that got me thinking while reading through the thread.
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