No-latency overclockable (up to 1080p@~270Hz) monitor controller board

this is awesome, but i think the way you are doing it is going to be a pain with support and all, if you have the board patented , would be easier to sell it to manufacturer directly, but guess thats easier said than done.
in the mean time you should send some samples to some reviewers websites lke PCper etc.
 
caw2007 said:
Ok, I hit the service menu and got the following:

Type: 46A1UF0E
Model: UN46C6300
Click to expand...
This is your TCON.
Samsung LJ94-03436D (S120APM4C4LV0.4) T-Con Board

Observations:
1) That connector looks like it probably mates with something that is on an FPC rather than a cable with discrete wires. This will make producing a new cable very difficult.
2) It is four-channel LVDS at 10bit, but it supports jeida mode and ns mode, so we should be able to use the dvi board with it.
 
KazeoHin said:
I think that model is already capable of running at 120Hz at 1080p, so that is not a huge deal, If you can get the 4K aspect of it running 100+ hertz, that would be an industry first and a must-buy for most 4K owners.
Click to expand...

Pixelclock is too high, the boards can't handle it.
 
Ultima99 said:
Ok so if I were to be looking to buy an inexpensive 27-28" panel to go with this what would you recommend?
Click to expand...

M270HHF-L10. I've tested five panels and they all did 240Hz. 27" 1080p 1-2ms. They might not look the best when placed next to a nice ips, but they are great for games. The panels are also fairly inexpensive.

Maybe there is more demand for prebuilt montiors than an upgrade board? I could get a run of them made and it would probably be less of a support nightmare than everyone doing their own thing.
 
Hobes said:
I just signed up to the forum after years of lurking to ask, would this work on a Dell U2410? If so I am highly interested.
Click to expand...

You are using ML240WU4-SLB1, which is unfortunately only 2ch lvds. It will not work well, sorry.
 
Interesting. This might be what my Sony 32EX720 TV needs. It is an early 3D Smart TV using active shutter glasses tech so it is capable of real 120hz operation (though poorly, the tv is crosstalking mess in 3d) though it cannot take that signal in. I have to find out what the panel is to see if it is compatible.

In case my screen is compatible do I lose all calibration controls on the TV?
 
Any chance for GSync/FreeSync in the DisplayPort version? Supporting that on a TV would be quite amazing and a sales argument IMO. I'm cracking up my old Samsung TV (UE46C5105) to see if it can be modded this weekend.
 
MaZa said:
Interesting. This might be what my Sony 32EX720 TV needs. It is an early 3D Smart TV using active shutter glasses tech so it is capable of real 120hz operation (though poorly, the tv is crosstalking mess in 3d) though it cannot take that signal in. I have to find out what the panel is to see if it is compatible.

In case my screen is compatible do I lose all calibration controls on the TV?
Click to expand...

Electrically it would be fine. Your tcon uses one of the 'standard' 51pin connectors, but unfortunately the other one is a flat-flex one which is impractical to modify.
 
DesktopMan said:
Any chance for GSync/FreeSync in the DisplayPort version? Supporting that on a TV would be quite amazing and a sales argument IMO. I'm cracking up my old Samsung TV (UE46C5105) to see if it can be modded this weekend.
Click to expand...

I basically do a format conversion only. The timings should get passed right through, so I expect FreeSync to work if the attached panel supports it. I have asked AMD for drivers to enable freesync over hdmi/TMDS, but have not gotten a response yet. If anyone has a contact within AMD, I'd *really* like to try this.

Before opening your TV, try the service menu to tell you what panel you have.
 
cirthix said:
I basically do a format conversion only. The timings should get passed right through, so I expect FreeSync to work if the attached panel supports it. I have asked AMD for drivers to enable freesync over hdmi/TMDS, but have not gotten a response yet. If anyone has a contact within AMD, I'd *really* like to try this.

Before opening your TV, try the service menu to tell you what panel you have.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the quick reply, I'll check the service menu. Since you recommend using the built in backlight driver for TVs, can you still do strobing? Or does that require your backlight board. (I'm not too familiar with backlights/panels.)

To be clear, GSync/FreeSync basically requires that the panel can handle all sorts of timings as they vary per frame?
 
Wha
cirthix said:
Electrically it would be fine. Your tcon uses one of the 'standard' 51pin connectors, but unfortunately the other one is a flat-flex one which is impractical to modify.
Click to expand...

Damn, I was hoping a plug and play solution. :D
 
DesktopMan said:
Thanks for the quick reply, I'll check the service menu. Since you recommend using the built in backlight driver for TVs, can you still do strobing? Or does that require your backlight board. (I'm not too familiar with backlights/panels.)
Click to expand...

Probably, but the LED current won't be boosted during strobing (unless your existing backlight driver has support for doing so), so it'll be relatively dim.

How good strobing looks depends on a few things. The short of it is that you need enough time between frames for the pixels to adjust AND in addition to the pixel adjust time, enough time for the backlight to produce a meaningful amount of light. If you have a 4ms panel (actual transition time here, not marketing garbage) in strobing mode at 100Hz(10ms) and want 1ms of backlight on-time, you need to have the panel write out the frame within 5ms. This is roughly as hard as driving the panel at 200Hz. This is why strobing is not implemented at high speeds or on slow panels. The backlight driving a 1ms pulse is not difficult and most backlight drivers will have no problem doing this.

It is the whole system that must be considered. While strobing is supported by the electronics in any situation where blanking is long enough to reliably handle, it is up to the user to configure the frame timings so that it is not a blurry mess.
 
MaZa said:
Wha


Damn, I was hoping a plug and play solution. :D
Click to expand...

Unfortunately (for both of us, I think this is why very few are interested), every display is different and this is a pretty 'deep' modification.
 
cirthix said:
Unfortunately (for both of us, I think this is why very few are interested), every display is different and this is a pretty 'deep' modification.
Click to expand...

Well, while I am not into deep modding I CAN solder. I would need to see what cables you are talking and where they so I could visualise the whole project. Maybe cut it into individual cables and solder them directly on the board? Maybe easier said than done because the flat-flex cables can be very thin and have very, very small cables. And a lot of them. Maybe not worth the hasle, I dont know.
 
few things I know from Monitor OC experences - quite a few cards CANNOT go above 70hz on 1440 monitors with DVI-DL (pixelclock locks)
(Ref : AMD/ATI Pixel Clock Patcher)
(Ref : NVIDIA Pixel Clock Patcher )

this leads me to ask - how is DVI-DL not a "dying" interface for our purposes - the interface itself is ok - but the OEMs don't/won't support it;
of course once you go away from 1080P - the DL-DVI is dead. (IMO of course)

DP (1.2a) has active-sync - DP (1.2) has the bandwidth for 4K @ 60hz (perhaps more in less than 10bit) 1.3 has 10bit + 120hz 4K.

I am sure I'm not 100% correct in my info (I usually miss some things) - the connector only concerns me because of the locked pixelclock and Active-sync;

in anycase - anyone think the 34" curves? ( LM340UW1-SSA1 - LM340UW1-SSA1 Datasheet download - Panelook.com ) - would work? would kill the market for the overpriced "overclocked" market
 
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KazeoHin said:
I think that model is already capable of running at 120Hz at 1080p, so that is not a huge deal, If you can get the 4K aspect of it running 100+ hertz, that would be an industry first and a must-buy for most 4K owners.
Click to expand...

That model desperately needs to improve the 4k30hz spec to 4k@60Hz. If it also becomes 240Hz@1080p all the better. Both goals are within the spec of the DL-DVI board.
As we currently have ZERO 4k displays with a strobing backlight, the benefits of going 100Hz at 4k are kind of limited.

As a side note, i look with greater interest to the DP prototype, because Apple has proved that DP signal has amazing overclocking potential.
I also suggest that the company sells thick gauge Dl-DVI and DP cables , so the buyers do not get mixed results using low quality cables on their overclocking attempts.
DL-DVI has no upper limit for pixel clock, the overclock results are highly dependent of the cable quality. Just sell the thickest DL-DVI money can buy. :cool:
 
Trying to understand the market for the DL-DVI board:
-Costs $150 ( or more)
-A brand new, strobing backlight 1440p 27" costs ~3 times as much

Who would consider getting the DL-DVI board:

Someone with a very good 1080p screen and that does not need/value a strobing backlight but still want to try a higher raw refresh . So there is some value, but not a lot. NOPE, i do not believe a regular user, even from [H]ere, is capable of self building a strobing backlight mod.

Someone with a 30Hz 4k screen, or a 4:2:2 4k@60Hz screen, that wants True RGB 4k@60hz. here the value offered goes a quite bit higher, as the 4k prices start at 4 times the DL-DVI board price. having 1080p@240hz just increases the value a bit more.

The market for the DP version looks better:

People with slow 1440p screens looking for higher refresh rates
Slow 3440x1440 screens
4k screens without 1080p@120hz mode
 
cirthix said:
Yes, I have tested ZR30W a really long time ago with the first incarnation of the board. I had to do some soldering on the TCON to switch it from 10bit mode to 8bit mode, would have to look at old pictures to see what I changed. After doing that, I was able to get around 100Hz before the panel started to lose contrast and start looking gray/dark.

Kind of a meh result, since zr30w already has low input lag.
Click to expand...

you sir is golden. 100hz is damn good.
 
If this would support the Dell U3415W 3440x1440 ultra wide I'd be very interested once the DP 1.2 version is available.
 
Love it! I'd be onboard if it output eDP and had Freesync. I'm actually making a custom monitor now, to utilize a 1080p120 LCD and a Alibaba-sourced controller.
 
geok1ng said:
Trying to understand the market for the DL-DVI board:
Click to expand...

People who have been trying to overclock monitors on this forum for years. Clearly this is not a mass market item, but I think it is slick piece of custom work that should be able to pull together >150 customers needed to make it feasible.

The market for the DP version looks better:

People with slow 1440p screens looking for higher refresh rates
Slow 3440x1440 screens
4k screens without 1080p@120hz mode
Click to expand...

Not sure how DP makes that better, DL-DVI should be able to do that just as well AFAICT. The ultimate limitation is mostly on the panel itself.
 
Dr_Drache said:
few things I know from Monitor OC experences - quite a few cards CANNOT go above 70hz on 1440 monitors with DVI-DL (pixelclock locks)
(Ref : AMD/ATI Pixel Clock Patcher)
(Ref : NVIDIA Pixel Clock Patcher )

this leads me to ask - how is DVI-DL not a "dying" interface for our purposes - the interface itself is ok - but the OEMs don't/won't support it;
of course once you go away from 1080P - the DL-DVI is dead. (IMO of course)

DP (1.2a) has active-sync - DP (1.2) has the bandwidth for 4K @ 60hz (perhaps more in less than 10bit) 1.3 has 10bit + 120hz 4K.

I am sure I'm not 100% correct in my info (I usually miss some things) - the connector only concerns me because of the locked pixelclock and Active-sync;

in anycase - anyone think the 34" curves? ( LM340UW1-SSA1 - LM340UW1-SSA1 Datasheet download - Panelook.com ) - would work? would kill the market for the overpriced "overclocked" market
Click to expand...


I agree with certain respects.

I am currently running a 404K monitor that I'm more than willing to modify, So I'm super interested in a Displayport version that can OC that panel. The DL-DVI version is REALLY awesome, and I am DEFINITELY going to pimp the board to my friends to help the OP get some sales, but I currently have no use for it if it can't make my 404K do more that it is already doing (4:4:4 4K at 60Hz).

4K screens are getting cheap cheap cheap, and I expect the 4K adoption rate to overtake 1080p in the next 5 years. So I hope the OP is looking for 4K panels in the future!

Either way: Awesome work, OP!
 
Not going to quote the whole page of posts, but in summary:

DVI is not dead in the sense that this board can operate at roughly the same clocks as DP1.2, is compatibile with almost all graphics cards on the current market and very likely the upcoming couple of generations (which have slowed down). Electrically, DLDVI is very much a pair of HDMIs in a single cable sharing a clock, and since HDMI isn't going away anytime soon, the low level interface will exist and be cheap/simple to continue supporting DLDVI. The only real lack of compatability is with laptops.

There also exists a single-chip solution which splits one HDMI 2.0 to DLDVI at full 6Gbps speeds, so forward-looking compatibility through this adapter is not lacking.

DVI is friendlier to overclockers and generally more stable. If you've used a DP display for an extended period of time, you've probably experienced disconnects or annoying things like desktop rearrangement on resuming from sleep. These sorts of problems do not occur with DLDVI because it is always-connected.

The DP1.2 chip that I am using is specified for 600MHz pxclk. I do not know what it can overclock to because my early-engineering-sample chips do not properly do the 5.4Gbit mode. A new chip version should have samples available this month which fixes the performance.

DP does have some real advantages, such as 6bpc (don't knock it!, it has it's uses) or 10bpc modes. DP1.3 bandwidth is great, but for now, we have DP1.2 and DLDVI to choose from.

When given the choice between these two similar-performing interfaces, DLDVI is actually the better interface for non-laptop users.

There are four main markets that I wanted to address:
1) Users of the popular 27" 1440p LG IPS displays could go from 60Hz to 120Hz (possibly requiring a TCON swap too, if using eDP versions).
2) Users of 27" 144Hz 1080p TN montiors with M270HHF-L10 going from 144Hz to 240Hz.
3) Users of 1080P TVs who want to use them for gaming and bypass all of the 60->120Hz FRC and buffering garbage.
4) DIY people who want to grab a panel and use it.
 
The guys that have been considering buying an OLED panel to make their own cheaper OLED display will be interested.
But if bypassing major electronics, does this mean that the calibration features would be omitted?
I ask this because OLEDs are not linear and require processing to fix. This is one reason why OLED TVs have a larger delay.
ie can this be resolved without the large delay?

ps great thread, been reading it almost from the start.
I have no need for it unless it can work with an HDMI 1.4 projector but its my kind of fun :)
 
I concede the point: DLDVI should be OK, i was not aware that a HDMI 2.0> DL-DVI adapter existed.

Still hoping that the product can reach another market:

5-TVs with 4k30Hz or 4k 4:2:2 giving them 4k@60Hz RGB + 1080p@240hz
 
geok1ng said:
I concede the point: DLDVI should be OK, i was not aware that a HDMI 2.0> DL-DVI adapter existed.

Still hoping that the product can reach another market:

5-TVs with 4k30Hz or 4k 4:2:2 giving them 4k@60Hz RGB + 1080p@240hz
Click to expand...
psst :)

When you use an @ sign with no spaces, it shows as [email protected] and cant be read unless we click reply.
I'm not sure if you see the same thing because a lot of people still do this, thought you might like to be aware.
 
on firefox i do not see this "email protected" bug but will avoid the @ from now on anyway.
 
This looks really interesting, but I wonder if you could explain what the benefits are of increasing the clock? Does it sync better, less tearing etc when playing a game with fluctuating FPS? Is it just turning tv's into better pc screens?

Thanks
 
GoodBoy said:
This looks really interesting, but I wonder if you could explain what the benefits are of increasing the clock? Does it sync better, less tearing etc when playing a game with fluctuating FPS? Is it just turning tv's into better pc screens?

Thanks
Click to expand...
More refresh rate & minimal possible input lag with this board. Not all TV's and screen are compatible.
 
Nenu said:
The guys that have been considering buying an OLED panel to make their own cheaper OLED display will be interested.
But if bypassing major electronics, does this mean that the calibration features would be omitted?
I ask this because OLEDs are not linear and require processing to fix. This is one reason why OLED TVs have a larger delay.
ie can this be resolved without the large delay?
Click to expand...
Since you're connecting to a PC a bunch of the calibration could be done on the PC side. There's already tools for this built into OSes and card configuration tools.
 
DesktopMan said:
Since you're connecting to a PC a bunch of the calibration could be done on the PC side. There's already tools for this built into OSes and card configuration tools.
Click to expand...
The OLEDs operate in the analogue domain,
PC side calibration has no analogue component.
 
This sounds like a perfect match for my just ordered Sony 32" 1080p TV with really low input lag that I planned to use as a 2ndary monitor in my room (casual gaming like rpg games n such single player games, movies and extra work space) due to VA panel's great contrast. Just wondering if it's compatible, how exactly do you know whether it is or not.
 
Nenu said:
The OLEDs operate in the analogue domain,
PC side calibration has no analogue component.
Click to expand...
If the calibration is done in the analogue domain then shouldn't the parts to do that still be connected to the panel even if you use this device? After all, this replaces whatever is before LVDS.
 
Yes.
Voltage/current control can only be made at that level.
 
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