No-latency overclockable (up to 1080p@~270Hz) monitor controller board

Discussion in 'Displays' started by cirthix, Mar 15, 2016.

  1. cirthix

    cirthix Limp Gawd

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    Hello fellow monitor overclockers!

    A couple of years ago, I created a 240Hz 1080p monitor. I never really got past getting a couple units out to a companies for development uses. Now that I'm done with school, I have had some time to clean up the design and make it suitable for production.

    Targeted users:
    1) Users of the popular 27" 1440p LG IPS displays could go from 60Hz to 120Hz (possibly requiring a TCON swap too, if using eDP versions).
    2) Users of 27" 144Hz 1080p TN montiors with M270HHF-L10 going from 144Hz to 240Hz.
    3) Users of 1080P TVs who want to use them for gaming and bypass all of the 60->120Hz FRC and buffering garbage.
    4) DIY people who want to grab a panel and use it.

    If you are interested in modifying your monitor or TV with a really fast controller, check out the video here:
    Preorder demo video:


    For high-speed camera captures:


    For a demonstration/ proof of prototype:


    Thanks for looking. Feel free to ask any questions here or via email.

    Mods, please don't remove, I did get permission from Kyle before posting this.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2016
    Panel, Delicieuxz, sydlexius and 23 others like this.
  2. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    Hey! looks awesome! I can't watch the video just now, but are there plans for creating a higher-resolution version? I would love to see 1440p or ultra-wide displays with 200+ hertz refresh. Even use your talents to create a 4K120 board: I'd pay GOOOD money for that!
     
  3. cirthix

    cirthix Limp Gawd

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    1440p is supported, for example on LM270WQ1 variants (the ones with LVDS tcons).
    LM270WQ1 should be able to max out the panel at ~120ish.

    I have not tested ultrawide or 4k panels with it.

    4k120 would require two of these boards and probably synchronizing them. I've got an adapter to Vx1 coming soon, should probably try it all together at some point.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2016
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  4. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    That's awesome. I'll have a look at the videos later, but from what I'm seeing and hearing, this is an awesome idea. I can definitely see a future where extreme gaming/PC enthusiasts build their own monitors like we do our PCs.

    If you can get a ~reliable system wherin two of these boards can drive a single 4K120hz or 1440p260Hz panel, you would essentially have the entire market to yourself. Good luck and I'll have a look at my TVs tonight to see if they are compatible.
     
  5. cirthix

    cirthix Limp Gawd

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    If you want help with determining compatibility, make an album of detailed pictures of all of your internal parts and send me a link.
     
  6. xbt

    xbt n00bie

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    cirthix
    Is it possible to upgrade the ASUS VG278H with that board?
     
  7. cirthix

    cirthix Limp Gawd

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    Yes, and you're lucky because I got into this whole thing by messing around with VG278HE.

    You will not need to modify button board or power supply cables. You will only need to swap P/N pins on the video connectors which is maybe a 10 minute job.
    Get the DC/DC option since you have 16V internally with a 12V panel. Don't get the led driver option.

    I've opened a few VG278H/HE variants and they're similar on the inside, most using M270HHF-L10 which is good for us, but I do recall finding one LG panel which was a 1080p TN with the same TCON as their 2560*1600 panels. I do not know the limits of this panel (mine was cheap because it was cracked). You may want to have a look inside to see what panel you have.

    Unscrew the stand, remove the bezel, and look at the sticker on the panel.
     
  8. xbt

    xbt n00bie

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    A service menu shows panel type: LG LM270WF3

    I'll preoder the board definitely if it compatible.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2016
  9. cirthix

    cirthix Limp Gawd

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    Ah, service menu. That's a nice trick!

    I just took a look at the datasheet for LM270WF3, no doubt about compatibility.

    I can't say for sure about the whole system overclock, but the TCON uses the same chip as the LM270WQ1 which can overclock to about 480MHz pixelclock. For 1080p, this is around 200Hz.

    Email support@zisworks.com if you're interested in the preorder.
     
  10. schizrade

    schizrade [H]ardness Supreme

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    Wow, great work cirthix.

    You win the "Lurker of the Day" award. lol
     
  11. fuzzylogik

    fuzzylogik Limp Gawd

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  12. caw2007

    caw2007 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Is there a dedicated compatibility list? I'd be interested in seeing if my TV could support this. I'll have to get the exact model number, but it's an early Samsung LED LCD.
     
  13. eneq

    eneq [H]Lite

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    If you are doing 4k@120 using dual boards (assuming some kind of frame buffer sharing) would it be a far stretch to support something like PLP (picture-landscape-picture) solutions? Right know the only way todo PLP for gaming is by software and the solution is poorly maintained.

    I had started looking into using HW to create one large single virtual display compromised of multiple monitors but realized I needed multiple controller cards due to bandwidth limitations and not being a HW guy (just close to HW engineer) the project went into hibernation.

    I realize that any such virtual display generation and frame buffer synchronization between the boards would be non trivial and incur some latency or panel synchronization issues but it would definitely be neat. However I suspect the PLP market might not be a big player but if this can be done in large display setups I can thing of a few commercial applications where comparable products are quite expensive...
     
  14. cirthix

    cirthix Limp Gawd

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    Right now, there is no list, I don't have that many panels to play with. At this point, I will check every compatibility request against a datasheet to give a yes/no answer. Use the service menu or remove rear cover to determine the panel model number, then I'll check it out for you.

    A list with overclock results will be built when people test, but this is a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem.
     
  15. cirthix

    cirthix Limp Gawd

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    The dual-boards 4k120 thing is possible but with what i have now, would be very expensive. As such, I'm not really working towards that goal right now.
     
  16. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Please forgive my ignorance, I just clicked in here from the main page, and I have never played around with monitor modding before.

    How does this custom controller connect to the panel inside the monitor? Do panels use standard connectors or something?

    Are you still able to use monitor controls (like backlight levels)?

    If something like this were to work with my Samsung JS9000 TV allowing me to go 4k resolution at the native 120hz of the panel using DP, I'd be in in a heartbeat, and I'd be willing to pay pretty well for the privilege.
     
  17. cirthix

    cirthix Limp Gawd

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    You modify the board-side of your existing video cables, then splice on a few extra ones for backlight control and power.

    My boards only have 3 buttons. on/off, brightness up and down. Bare minimum stuff.

    4k120 is not supported, it is about 2x the pixelclock of these boards.
     
  18. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Thanks for explaining, that sounds pretty great!

    Well, if you ever decide to make another one, with higher pixel clock and DP, I'm in! :p

    What would be REALLY cool, and might have a real market associated with it too, would be a reverse engineered Samsung One Connect breakout box connector, that replaces the Samsung box all together, without requiring people to crack open their TV's and make modifications.

    I'm fairly certain this would be possible, as I believe the Samsung One Connect cable carries the native panel signal, so it would be a matter of figuring out the pinout for the panel and back light controls, package it in a little box, and selling them for a few hundred bucks a pop. You'd probably get a lot of customers considering how many people are using these TV's as monitors now (I know, I'd be one of them)

    this is one of those projects I've had in the back of my head since I first got my Samsung TV, but sadly, I have next to zero electrical engineering skills.
     
  19. cirthix

    cirthix Limp Gawd

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    That's a really interesting idea! I am looking into it now. After seeing the box cracked open on avsforums (http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/data/2320431/8/80/80da5df1_197841-27.jpeg), I can see that it is packed with all kinds of stuff. Not sure what the interface is, but I'm interested in finding more.
     
  20. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    I have a spare box if it would be useful.

    I originally RMA:ed it because the fan was loud in it, but when I went to send it back to Samsung once I got my replacement, the UPS return label they sent me didn't work, and my follow up emails to customer support went unanswered, so I kept it, and now have two boxes.

    Turns out the replacement box wasn't much better, so I cracked my spare open to see if I could mod it (or at least reapply thermal paste) to quiet it down a bit. I didn't succeed, but the box still works.

    Yeah, for the Samsung TV's that have them (some lower end models have them built in) all the logic and firmware resides in the boxes, the screen itself is just a panel and a backlight, with a power connector, and a proprietary connector out to the One Connect box, which has all the AV inputs on it.

    The box is rather beefy with lots of logic, as it hosts all the smart TV functions, color adjustment settings, scalers, control of selective screen region dimming, etc. etc. most of which really isn't needed or very useful for a desktop user using it as a monitor. I believe it has an 8 core ARM processor of some sort.

    If you have a serious interest in pursuing this, PM me, and lets talk!
     
  21. cirthix

    cirthix Limp Gawd

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    Just took a look at some pics of the internals of your tv.

    Observations:

    1) The tcon is probably 8ch vx1 input (4k60) has ram and probably FRC (4k120). This would limit input to raw 4k60, not 4k120.
    Samsung BN95-02066A T-Con Board

    2) The "one connect" connector has 6 diffpairs plus maybe an extra pair on it. It would be interesting to probe them and try to figure out the interface, but the only 6/6+1 pin interface that would make sense here is DLDVI. That or custom. With samsung, it is probably custom haha. Should be doing 4k60 over it, then having the FRC in the tcon bring it up to 120.

    Samsung BN94-08310C Main Board for UN55JS9000FXZA


    There is a pair of traces from the one connect input to a pair of vias right above the component named BD221. Measure them on your spare box. If they happen to be carrying a roughly 30 or 60MHz differential clock, then it is DLDVI. Otherwise, I don't know what that oneconnect interface would be.
     
  22. thenapalm

    thenapalm Limp Gawd

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    Would MonInfo give enough information on the panel or is it really necessary to open the case?
     
  23. cirthix

    cirthix Limp Gawd

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    No, this is not sufficient. Opening the back and checking the hardware is the surest way, using a service/factory menu is another good option. If you aren't willing to open it to check, you probably aren't willing to mod it ;).
     
  24. Advil

    Advil [H]ard|Gawd

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    This is effectively a DIY version of what I did by buying an overclockable Korean monitor. Which is awesome. Less is more when wanting low latency and fast response. One input, minimal controls. Perfection.

    I can get about 96hz out of my 1440p IPS screen now. I wonder if I can push that a bit with a better made board like this one?
     
  25. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Very cool, I fear some of this stuff goes above my head from the electrical standpoint though. (I'm a mechanical and industrial engineer primarily, with extremely little electrical experience)

    I hope you don't mind if I ask for some clarification below.

    Hmm, so there would be no way to pass a 120hz signal to the 120hz panel? that is a bummer (and kind of shortsighted design from Samsungs perspective, since they typically offer aftermarket upgrade boxes after a couple of years. Why limit the potential of ones upgrade box?)

    Some of those pins are used to power the box as well, as it has no AC adapter of its own. The power supply is in the screen, and it pulls its power from there.

    What would be the correct way to measure this? I fear I'm limited to my multimeter. (one of these)

    I fear a market for a product like this might evaporate if 120hz input isn't possible :(

    The TV already has pretty decent low latency input (low 20's). Now granted, it drops the chroma down to 4:2:2 in order to accomplish this, but unless you are looking at small colored text on a colored background in game (~ game cosole maybe?), the difference compared to the 4:4:4 Chroma PC Mode is virtually imperceptible, at least to me.

    While improvement is always good, without the benefit of going to 120hz, I feel like any improvement might cost more than it is worth to most people.

    I'd be interested in hearing your opinion though.
     
  26. jojo69

    jojo69 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    this work with the Catleaps?
     
  27. Snowdog

    Snowdog Pasty Nerd with Poor Cardio

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    Sweet. IIRC there are lots of 120Hz TVs with no actual way to get 120Hz signals into them. Is there passthrough of some kind to still use it as a TV?
     
  28. cirthix

    cirthix Limp Gawd

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    Probably. Depends on what's inside.
     
  29. cirthix

    cirthix Limp Gawd

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    Yes, there are many TVs that fit that description. Some like the one I looked at earlier in this thread have the FRC on the TCON, which makes them not suitable for this mod, but many do not.


    There is no passthrough, this gives you one DLDVI input and replaces all existing TV video parts.
     
  30. Yaka

    Yaka Gawd

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    would this work on a hp zr30w?
     
  31. cirthix

    cirthix Limp Gawd

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    Yes, I have tested ZR30W a really long time ago with the first incarnation of the board. I had to do some soldering on the TCON to switch it from 10bit mode to 8bit mode, would have to look at old pictures to see what I changed. After doing that, I was able to get around 100Hz before the panel started to lose contrast and start looking gray/dark.

    Kind of a meh result, since zr30w already has low input lag.
     
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  32. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    Congrats on the front-page, dude!

    As soon as you get 4K working, I've got a Crossover 404K that is BEGGING for 100+FPS.
     
  33. geok1ng

    geok1ng [H]ard|Gawd

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    The panel that most desperately needs a board like this is the one used on the old Seiki 39" 4k SE39UY4, the innolux V390DK1-LS1. It is a 4k panel capable of 120Hz, but paired with a board limited to 30Hz. it also is probably the one that sold the most on North America.
     
  34. cirthix

    cirthix Limp Gawd

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    I should get one of these panels for testing, it is popular. Used to have one before I moved and didn't use it much. I believe the 30Hz limit is in the TCON, though it could probably do 120/144Hz at 1080p without input lag with my boards.
     
  35. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    I think that model is already capable of running at 120Hz at 1080p, so that is not a huge deal, If you can get the 4K aspect of it running 100+ hertz, that would be an industry first and a must-buy for most 4K owners.
     
  36. caw2007

    caw2007 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Ok, I hit the service menu and got the following:

    Type: 46A1UF0E
    Model: UN46C6300
     
  37. Ultima99

    Ultima99 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Ok so if I were to be looking to buy an inexpensive 27-28" panel to go with this what would you recommend?
     
  38. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yeah, That's something I think can be taken advantage of with the market position this board occupies.

    This is being sold as a 'mod your monitor maybe' device, when I think people will go out-of-their-way to purchase a new monitor/panel JUST to use this device. There is a HUGE demand for cheap, DIY high-speed monitors and this device could be the market leader, there. Recommended monitor/panel lists would be a huge boost to potential buyers.

    SUPER excited about the prospect! I can't stop posting!
     
  39. Marlfox

    Marlfox Gawd

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    Would this be compatible with a S34E790C monitor?
     
  40. Hobes

    Hobes n00bie

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    I just signed up to the forum after years of lurking to ask, would this work on a Dell U2410? If so I am highly interested.