Nioh: Complete Edition

Speak of the devil. Looks like I unlocked the MP stuff finally. Looking at a walkthrough - I'm apparently about 40-50% through the game. I didn't get a chance to do anything yet, but it seems like you can play a mission with other players, do a group battle, a 1 on 1 battle, and then there are weapon vs. weapon battles where your stats and gear aren't taken to account.
 
this game seems like such an enigma to me...I keep hearing about the first rate combat system but everything else about the game seems poor (level design, enemy types, boss fights, inventory management etc)...which is why I want to play but also am in no hurry (at least until it drops in price to under $15)...
 
I don't really mind the inventory system...at least outside the button prompts being incorrect. Level design falls short of Dark Souls, but it's not terrible. Most maps you get to play through a couple different ways, and the game does a good job of making the same map feel fresh.
The same enemies get old, though. I'd suspect I'm about 60-70% done with the game and I've been killing the same dozen enemies the whole time. They grow stronger as you move forward, but they're still essentially the same. It IS interesting that every enemy has a stamina bar just like you, though. It's kind of amusing that you can take advantage of them the way they take advantage of you.
Bosses thus far have all been borrowed directly from the Souls games. Some are better implemented than others. A few are a cakewalk, while a couple are incredibly tough. The weird thing is that you have an ability (your "guardian") that makes you super-powered for a short time. It also makes you borderline invincible, too. Strategically the best way to approach any boss fight is to fight them normally and when they hit 40% of their life, enable your guardian. That's typically enough to put 'em away. It makes the difficulty in most of those battles night and day whether you have that ability or not. If you don't, it's wise to charge it up, even if you have to die first and lose your amrita/souls.
Combat sounds better than it really is. I think the 3 stances just give you the ability to make any weapon slower/faster at will. I find myself using the same stance 75% of the time, only switching to extend attack strings or to toggle a couple single strikes. It feels like a way of them trying to blend Ninja Gaiden's attack leveling system with Dark Souls' slower pace. It works, but it's not exactly revolutionary.

IMO, the prompts still absolutely need fixing and the game would probably be worth $25 if they did. It's big and there's a lot to do. Yet if they don't, it should be on sale. It's essentially broken as-is.
 
What's the trick to getting a lot of pickups off of higher ledges? Sometimes I can find paths to them, but most of the time there's not and none of the weapons or items I have seem to reach them.
 
Domingo said:
IMO, the prompts still absolutely need fixing and the game would probably be worth $25 if they did. It's big and there's a lot to do. Yet if they don't, it should be on sale. It's essentially broken as-is.
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the gameworld may be big but when it's a series of maps versus an interconnected world it doesn't feel as big...plus when you fill it with disappointing level design and geography it takes away from the gameplay...I don't mind the buttom prompts at all...it only really matters in the very beginning when you're learning the interface
 
T4rd said:
What's the trick to getting a lot of pickups off of higher ledges? Sometimes I can find paths to them, but most of the time there's not and none of the weapons or items I have seem to reach them.
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Typically you have to wind around via a path that doesn't appear to be anywhere near where the items are. You'll notice that the game has you play through many levels several times, often in different directions. That sometimes shows you the alternate routes needed to reach certain items.
To be pretty honest, they're rarely worth bothering to go after. I can't think of a single item I found in the game world that could stack up to the stuff you get from revenants or boss. That might not be the case super early, but it's definitely the case after the first couple levels. I only bother if something is directly in my way or if I've cleared everything out. If you want good items - just keep killing revenants. Look to make sure they're rocking blue/purple items and their level is decent. You can narrow it down to your preferred weapon, but that's only if you're confident your armor is as good as it's going to get for a while.
 
polonyc2 said:
how is the weapon/armor variety?...good as Dark Souls?
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Honestly, it kinda sorta doesn't matter. It affects your stamina usage and recovery, but not much else. I rock whatever has the highest stats (regardless of weight) and the difference between that and the lightest stuff is minimal. Maybe my stats makes that possible (I always go big), but it's working fine.
There are lots of different visual types and styles, though. There's a function where you can make your gear look like any other piece of gear you've found, too. My guy looks like a Ninja, but I'm rocking some of the heaviest stuff out there. That's kind of amusing.
The main thing I've noticed is that most of the revenants I fight have stamina issues. My big swings lock them down and armor break them really quick. Some of the really quick weapons can interrupt me, but outside of low-stance fast enemies, there isn't much that can be done vs. the large sword mid-stance sequences. Heavy armor (which most don't use) might alleviate some of that.
 
Domingo said:
Honestly, it kinda sorta doesn't matter. It affects your stamina usage and recovery, but not much else. I rock whatever has the highest stats (regardless of weight) and the difference between that and the lightest stuff is minimal. Maybe my stats makes that possible (I always go big), but it's working fine.
There are lots of different visual types and styles, though. There's a function where you can make your gear look like any other piece of gear you've found, too. My guy looks like a Ninja, but I'm rocking some of the heaviest stuff out there. That's kind of amusing.
The main thing I've noticed is that most of the revenants I fight have stamina issues. My big swings lock them down and armor break them really quick. Some of the really quick weapons can interrupt me, but outside of low-stance fast enemies, there isn't much that can be done vs. the large sword mid-stance sequences. Heavy armor (which most don't use) might alleviate some of that.
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aren't there heavy weapons that do massive damage, light weapons for DEX type of builds etc?...the stamina aspect is also part of Souls weapons/gear...you can't really rock a full Havel's gear and a Greatsword without massive stats
 
polonyc2 said:
aren't there heavy weapons that do massive damage, light weapons for DEX type of builds etc?...the stamina aspect is also part of Souls weapons/gear...you can't really rock a full Havel's gear and a Greatsword without massive stats
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I don't think Nioh is that sensitive to build types. I'm using heavy everything and I notice next to no difference vs. using light armor. Ki is restored with pulsing, so stamina burn from attacking and dodging is alleviated. I don't think it matters much with your armor as a result.
It reminds me a bit of Lords of the Fallen in that regard. There isn't much variety to the builds. There are probably 5-6 builds (heavy, medium, light, magic-heavy, bow-heavy, ninja-heavy) but not much motivation to mix and match them. I think they figured the stances provided that depth rather than build stats.
 
so where do you rank Nioh?...better then any of the 3 Souls games?...better then Lords of the Fallen?
 
polonyc2 said:
so where do you rank Nioh?...better then any of the 3 Souls games?...better then Lords of the Fallen?
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Hmmmm. I actually really liked Lords of the Fallen in spite of the game being a little too streamlined. I'd put Nioh slightly behind that game, but I'd have no problem with anyone saying the opposite. Both have clear flaws.
I don't think it's better than any of the Souls games. It's different and it does a few things better, but the total package isn't there. It's too repetitious and inconsistent.
There's a clear Ninja Gaiden influence and it's better than the 3rd game in that series (even the "fixed" variant on the WiiU) but it's not quite up to par with #2. Ninja Gaiden 1 is up there with Dark Souls to me, so it's not even in the ballpark there.
 
I liked Lords of the Fallen as well...didn't have a ton of replay value but I enjoyed it (graphics were also really nice)...did you play their follow-up game The Surge?
 
polonyc2 said:
I liked Lords of the Fallen as well...didn't have a ton of replay value but I enjoyed it (graphics were also really nice)...did you play their follow-up game The Surge?
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I haven't. In fact, your post just reminded me it even existed :p
Looks like it's 1/2 off via the Steam sale right now. It worth $20-30?
 
Domingo said:
I haven't. In fact, your post just reminded me it even existed :p
Looks like it's 1/2 off via the Steam sale right now. It worth $20-30?
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I hear decent things about it...I'm in no hurry to play it and will probably pick it up down the road
 
I just left the first region in the game and I'm not seeing a good reason to use the blacksmith in the game. The weapons and armor I've been finding in game seem significantly better than anything I can craft on my own, even after disassembling other exotic items for their material. Am I missing something or is it something that is more useful later in the game?

I've never played Bloodborne, the Souls games, or Ninja Gaiden games before, so I don't have anything to compare this to, but I'm enjoying it so far after getting past the moderate learning curve of the combat system.

Someone said above that they couldn't tell the diff between the heavier and lighters armours, but I definitely can. I started out wearing some exotic heavy gold armor I got just for connecting online at my first save point somehow. Then picked up some exotic Warrior of the West armor set from some revenants, which was lighter and dropped me down to the mid-tier for weight and it was a considerable difference of less Ki usage while attacking/dodging and running with the lighter armor, so I've been sticking to that weight level now. I don't think the Ki pulses negates the armor weight at all either, lighter armor still makes a decent difference during more intense fights where you need all the Ki you can get at all times.
 
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T4rd said:
I just left the first region in the game and I'm not seeing a good reason to use the blacksmith in the game. The weapons and armor I've been finding in game seem significantly better than anything I can craft on my own, even after disassembling other exotic items for their material. Am I missing something or is it something that is more useful later in the game?

I've never played Bloodborne, the Souls games, or Ninja Gaiden games before, so I don't have anything to compare this to, but I'm enjoying it so far after getting past the moderate learning curve of the combat system.

Someone said above that they couldn't tell the diff between the heavier and lighters armours, but I definitely can. I started out wearing some exotic heavy gold armor I got just for connecting online at my first save point somehow. Then picked up some exotic Warrior of the West armor set from some revenants, which was lighter and dropped me down to the mid-tier for weight and it was a considerable difference of less Ki usage while attacking/dodging and running with the lighter armor, so I've been sticking to that weight level now. I don't think the Ki pulses negates the armor weight at all either, lighter armor still makes a decent difference during more intense fights where you need all the Ki you can get at all times.
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That's what I was thinking on the blacksmith, seems confusing. I only forged one thing so far. I'm at Nue who's a huge pain in the ass so far..
 
You'll eventually be able to have the blacksmith forge better items, but it's still a little pointless with all the crap you find in the game.

The main thing the blacksmith can help you with is "Soul Matching," which allows you to level up the gear you have with items that are a higher level. That's where your money will go, too.
For instance, you might have a purple sword with great STR scaling and fire effects but it's only level 5 with a damage of 15. Yet you find a yellow sword with weak scaling and no abilities at level 8 and a damage of 20. You can "soul match" your level 5 purple sword with the newer one to level it up. I rocked an A+ scaling Odachi for like 1/2 the game. The catch is, eventually soul scaling starts to cost a fortune on certain items. It got to the point where leveling my sword up would cost 2-3 million dollars...rather than the typical 3000-4000 for most items. I haven't figured out exactly how the game decides what it should cost, but it seems to be much higher with weapons vs. armor. Luckily, you'll eventually find better items. They might be missing certain stats, but it won't be the end of the world.

The blacksmith can also tweak certain attributes of your items, but I find that to just be a roll of the dice I rarely win. I stopped bothering when I tried it for 10 minutes and never got one stat boost that helped STR scaling.

I'm pretty close to the end of the game now. Or so it seems. I'm at level 93, but almost all the levels suggest a level that is 10-15 higher than mine. Yet all of my gear is even higher than that suggested level. No clue what any of that means, but I'm still progressing without too much trouble. Some bosses are tougher than others, but the Tanooki spirit absolutely clobbers anything that's human. Being able to use that 6 times is almost unfair.
 
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I've reached the final set of areas (basically the last 3 levels) after playing the game for about 6 weeks. It's definitely a long game, although they re-use assets like crazy. There is usually one really good level per "tier" of levels and the rest are just the same old thing. In some cases, it's literally the exact same level magically transported to a different region of Japan. It isn't quite Dragon Age 2, but it's lazy at times. Kind of sad considering the really good levels are very very well designed.

Bosses vary in difficulty quite a bit. The vampiress you fight very early on might still be the single hardest fight in the whole game. There are a few that are on par, but none where your resources are so limited. Plus she's one of the only bosses where your living weapon super move isn't guaranteed to do 50% damage. It's free win in most fights, but it's more of a life preserver in that one.

For all of the hidden stuff scattered throughout Nioh, like 99% of the junk you find is just that...junk. The best gear is all on Revenants and the other stuff is barely even worth picking up. The only stuff you ever really get that's worth seeking out are the items that give you more samurai/ninja/magic skill points. I still habitually explore everything and grab everything, but it's also probably why the game has taken me so long to get through. The best tip I can ever give you is to ALWAYS kill Revenants that have mostly purple gear. Especially that are rocking the same weapon as you are. I've gotten drops where my damage jumped up by 75 points. I've had armor pieces jump by 25 points. They're easy enough to kill, but the guardian spirit onmyo magic absolutely clobbers them. Boosting the ability to summon your guardian spirit 6 times is a no-brainer. Any and all humans = knocked down if not killed outright.
 
As a quick follow up, I did end up winning the game. The final areas are pretty challenging, but nothing you can't mostly spam away with your living weapon. The final boss (technically prologue boss) can basically be taken out completely using it right away. There's a weird fight where you have to deal with two bosses at once that's pretty tough, but there are living weapon item/spell exploits that let you spam that fight too.

NG+ isn't a full replay of the game, but instead there are just harder versions of each level added to the map. I can't see myself playing through this game any time soon since it's long and tedious...but if there's a Nioh 2 it might be worth a replay eventually. Hopefully a sequel would use Dark Souls controls by default. I literally have no idea why they didn't have them by default or even the option to play that way in the PS4 version. There's no reason for it except to pretend the game isn't a Dark Souls clone.
 
Domingo said:
As a quick follow up, I did end up winning the game. The final areas are pretty challenging, but nothing you can't mostly spam away with your living weapon. The final boss (technically prologue boss) can basically be taken out completely using it right away. There's a weird fight where you have to deal with two bosses at once that's pretty tough, but there are living weapon item/spell exploits that let you spam that fight too.

NG+ isn't a full replay of the game, but instead there are just harder versions of each level added to the map. I can't see myself playing through this game any time soon since it's long and tedious...but if there's a Nioh 2 it might be worth a replay eventually. Hopefully a sequel would use Dark Souls controls by default. I literally have no idea why they didn't have them by default or even the option to play that way in the PS4 version. There's no reason for it except to pretend the game isn't a Dark Souls clone.
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how many hours did it take you to complete?
 
polonyc2 said:
how many hours did it take you to complete?
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Per Steam, 45'ish. That's doing every optional repeat level and a little item farming early in the game. By the 2nd half of the game I stopped doing any of that.

EDIT: Looks like that was only the most recent play stats I was looking at. 66 was my grand total. A lot of that came early. I must have replayed the first "real" level of the game 6-7 times farming weapons and boosting levels. There are a few small'ish garden levels (that repeat 3-4 times throughout the game) I replayed numerous times since they're quick and typically loaded with Revenant graves.
That's also with me doing all of the level replays, too. After you complete most levels, the game offers a replay of that level with a different reward, boss, and often from a different direction. It's almost like a mini NG+ type of thing. I completed all of those, too.
Realistically, I probably spent about 15 hours that weren't necessary or productive simply because I didn't know any better.
 
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40% off today 29.00 on Steam picked it up finally couldn't even find a key on keygen sites for that much. Keygen sites for Steam were about 40.00 at the cheapest
 
Did they ever end up patching the game a second time? Remapping the controls worked, but it worked across all of the menus (without changing the prompts), too.
Performance above 1080p was never particularly good, too.
 
with the Steam Summer sale coming up I think I'll wait to see what the price is then...the 40% off deal should at the very least be the price during the sale but hopefully it'll drop even more...
 
Comixbooks said:
I refunded it just not feeling the game souls series just seems better.
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I think the Souls games are better, but Nioh is still a pretty fantastic game. At least once you get used to the controls. Re-mapping them to mimic the Souls games goes a long way, although it messes with the menus.
Once I got about halfway through the initial castle level I was hooked.
 
Comixbooks said:
I refunded it just not feeling the game souls series just seems better.
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there's something about Nioh that seems off to me...I love the Souls games and even copycat Souls but the videos I've seen of Nioh look dull...same enemies repeated over and over, drab environments etc...combat seems nice but I don't know if it's enough to overcome the rest of the game...if it drops to a cheap price I'll probably pick it up...
 
Just started playing.... I like it.... but I sure as hell need to figure out the key mappings as some things become really hard....
 
jiminator said:
Just started playing.... I like it.... but I sure as hell need to figure out the key mappings as some things become really hard....
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Yeah I played with a controller
polonyc2 said:
there's something about Nioh that seems off to me...I love the Souls games and even copycat Souls but the videos I've seen of Nioh look dull...same enemies repeated over and over, drab environments etc...combat seems nice but I don't know if it's enough to overcome the rest of the game...if it drops to a cheap price I'll probably pick it up...
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It's a Japanese simulator
 
wow, stuck at the second (ship) boss. this game is incredibly hard. I have leveled up to be able to wipe out the trash mobs pretty easily, but this boss is on a whole different level.
 
That ball & chain boss is the hardest enemy you'll face for a while. You'll fight him (or others like him) several other times, but by the time you get to that point it's no big deal.
The key to most boss encounters is to get them down to about 35-40% of their health and then go bonkers with your super activated. There are very few bosses where you can't take 1/3 of their life with your super.
 
jiminator said:
I got it. surprisingly enough the second stage of the fight (basic dodging) was much easier than the ball and chain stuff
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so how does this compare to Dark Souls in terms of enemy design, world building, level design, weapon/armor choices etc...I keep hearing that the game gets extremely repetitive with the same enemies over and over plus the areas all look the same...but I also hear the combat system is excellent
 
polonyc2 said:
so how does this compare to Dark Souls in terms of enemy design, world building, level design, weapon/armor choices etc...I keep hearing that the game gets extremely repetitive with the same enemies over and over plus the areas all look the same...but I also hear the combat system is excellent
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Diablo 3 loot where you pray for a god roll on gear and Dark Souls had a baby. Loot drops like water and you should pick it all up to assist in leveling. The combat is tight as hell and if you die it is because you messed up.

With that said all I do is die so I'm not a good judge of how the game progresses. My reaction time is pure crap nowadays and this game leans on it as an important mechanic.

Buy it from Steam and see if the combat is as tight as we say it is. You have 2 hours to test the combat out. ;) The story is interesting enough and there is a ton of loot.

Sometimes games don't have to be the best in 5 categories before they are worth playing if you love the genre. ;)
 
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