Nintendo Reported in Norway for Breaching European Consumer Law

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Apr 29, 2018.

  1. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,004
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Nintendo has been reported by the Norwegian Consumer Council for violating the EU’s right of withdrawal law, which allows consumers to get a refund on purchases made within 14 days. Nintendo does not allow for this in its eShop and has refused to comply. Valve, Sony, and EA have also received complaints due to their policies not fully adhering to the legislation.

    The NCC says it previously wrote to Nintendo asking for the platform holder to change its practices and comply with the rules. This led to nowhere however, and the NCC is now filing a formal complaint against all four companies. Director of digital services at the NCC, Finn Lützow-Holm Myrstad, said in a statement the breach of Norwegian and European consumer contracts "shows a lack of clarity by the four powerful gaming platforms."
     
  2. Patton187

    Patton187 Gawd

    Messages:
    670
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    14 days is not reasonable in my opinion.
     
  3. Nolan7689

    Nolan7689 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,385
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2015
    Good. I understand not wanting to give people 14 days to play a game and then return it, but frankly there should be some sort of system in place for people to not just be out all their money if they bought something they just plain don’t enjoy.
     
    Nytegard, Armenius and Chunder like this.
  4. Doumz

    Doumz n00b

    Messages:
    3
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2018
    Will kinda be interesting how they will find common ground on that.14 days is a good timeline for a casual gamer to try the game and have an idea if you like it or not,
    but for someone less casual it's also enough time to play the game 100%,meaning a full refund would mean playing the game for free.

    They would need to offer a full refund under a certain number of hours (2-3 hours) of playtime or a partial refund up to 14 days past that number of hours.
     
  5. Private_Ops

    Private_Ops [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,837
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Nintendo reminds me of a weird combination of "I know whats best for you" and "I'm above the law!".
     
    Armenius and Chunder like this.
  6. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,394
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    You could also say that someone that buys a Blu-Ray movie could watch it in 2 hours and then return it, thus making it free. But too many business rely on people making the initial purchase for the product, and if they don't like it then tuff shit. This is how Hollywood and the gaming industry works. This may push game developers to make better games than to make mediocre games that just check all the boxes.

    ☑ Has multiplayer even though a single player
    ☑ Lots of side quests with no substance
    ☑ Lots of cutscenes
    ☑ Don't forget to insert black people
    ☑ Do something political and shocking

    Goes on and on. Doesn't make for a good game but makes for a sale. Especially when reviewers nowadays don't usually get their hands on the game before it's released.
     
  7. Chunder

    Chunder Gawd

    Messages:
    519
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    I'm on the EU's side on this. These companies need to be put in their places. As Dukenukem somewhat said above, if companies spent more time and resources making great products, people wouldn't be trying to return garbage to get their hard earned money back from falsely advertised products that are increasingly getting worse and worse, yet more and more expensive every year.
     
    Armenius likes this.
  8. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,109
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    14 days? Yeah i would return each and every one.
     
  9. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,394
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    But isn't that admitting the games have no value beyond the initial play through? I love Dark Souls so much that I keep revisiting that game. On the other hand I only played Diablo 3 for a couple of weeks and hated it. To this day I never revisited Diablo 3 and regret spending the money on that game. Metal Gear Solid 5 took me two months to fully complete each mission, including side missions. Game Studios need to put more effort into their games if they're worried about games being returned in 2 weeks.
     
    Armenius likes this.
  10. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,109
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    I don't think they do have value after initial play, but yes i guess i am assuming shorter, and or repetitive style games in the online shop... That said i do think i would abuse this return policy.... I suppose nintendo and the other companies mentioned could start banning people on the basis of abusing the return policy.
     
  11. w4ffles

    w4ffles 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,166
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    You underestimate the scuminess of people. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

    I like Steam's current approach to this. You need to have less than 2 hours played within the 14 days to qualify for a refund.
     
    YeuEmMaiMai and Xinmosni like this.
  12. vegeta535

    vegeta535 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,130
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2013
    Yep. People will take advantage and ruin it for everyone. Years ago when I was a kid I abused the local EB return policy. I would buy and return it with in the return window. It got to the point that the manager banned me from his store lol.
     
  13. Reimu

    Reimu [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,625
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2009
    That's why you'd make sure that you'll never let a young you take advantage of a policy that you craft out.
     
  14. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,394
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    If you're going to abuse a return policy, then why not just pirate? You get to keep the game far longer than 14 days that way. Also, it's not like companies aren't abusing it when you have a limited time to return the game. Imagine buying Sniper Ghost Warrior 3 and then realizing it was a shitty game, but you can't return it due to the limited time window you have. Not everyone has the time needed to try the game enough that they know exactly if they hate or like the game.

    Let game developers be put to a higher standard and if game retention is a problem then they can try lowering prices. Instead of pretending a game is worth $60 like Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus, it can be priced realistically to $15 where even if it is a shitty game a person might think twice of returning it. You could beat the game in 2 days and return it, but maybe you have a fetish for topless pregnant women covered in nazi blood and afterall the game was only $15.

    My point is the 14 day thing isn't bad until game developers fill their games with repetitive boring tasks or side quests to lengthen the game. Which 14 days is enough to say fuck it I want my money back.

     
    Armenius and defaultluser like this.
  15. w4ffles

    w4ffles 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,166
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Pirating takes more effort. People will choose the easy route if it exists.

    Also you can't pirate Nintendo Switch games, not yet at least.
     
  16. theBrownLlama

    theBrownLlama Gawd

    Messages:
    795
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    that's clickbaity

    "A survey carried out in December last year found that Nintendo failed to offer consumers the option to cancel software pre-ordered on the eShop." - this is seriously wtf

    "Although Steam was called out by the NCC, the distributor does actually offer a refund policy similar to the right of withdrawal which allows consumers to return a game within 14 days of purchase, providing they have less than two hours of recorded game time." - o'really?
     
  17. defaultluser

    defaultluser [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    12,452
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2006
    The eshop does need a refund policy like Steam.

    There are more demos on the eshop than Steam, but it's still only around %10. I've gotten burned on about $60 worth of crap. If they had refunds I'd get that money back, and try another game. Instead of getting pissed off at wasting $20, and stop shopping.

    So yeah, EU law is a little too aggressive, but somebody needs to take Nintendo to court over this.

    EDIT: DukenukemX,

    thanks to the shitshow that is Wolf 2, ID Software titles are going back on my "Wait until this costs $10" wishlist. Doom and Wolf 1 were the shining examples that gave me false hope.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2018
  18. oROEchimaru

    oROEchimaru [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,665
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2004
    what stops someone from beating the game and never paying ? I'm ok with this if they had a limit like 3 claims per year ... or a smaller window like 72 hours.
     
  19. zkostik

    zkostik Gawd

    Messages:
    931
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    I think Steam sort of has it with a 2hr refund. That way at least in most cases you can demo the games and not get owned by crappy product but at the same time it's fair to the developers to reduce fraud. Devs won't make better games since many franchises get bough anyway so at least with a reasonable refund window, it all works. I do agree that 14 day return for a game is bullshit, most people even casual gamers will complete a game in this time. With this 14 day law many would try to complete games in this time to take advantage of the system.
     
  20. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,394
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Pirating takes more effort, if you don't know how to torrent. Nintendo Switch is kinda fucked with piracy eventually. If not by people cracking the machine and putting in a custom firmware or emulators on PC. Though pirating on a Switch will certainly take a lot of know how to get it done. But the audience for a Switch is not exactly adults. We are talking about a company making cardboard as a way to play games here. Sure adults have the Switch, but even those adults who use the Switch will need more than 14 days to beat a game, unless they don't have a job.

    People will do it, I'm sure they will, but people also return tools to Autozone after using it for a day. If game studios see this as a big problem then they need to rethink their game design. Games can take a page from the 80's/90's where games were hard and weren't beaten so fairly quickly. Maybe Fallout 4 should have had a better ending like New Vegas where it shows what you've done and not just some generic ending that everyone sees. I see this as a design problem, not a return policy problem. Japan has a piracy problem as well, and lots of people just download videos. So how do anime studios make money? They put sexy characters that they can sell in stores cause the men will buy products with them. Let game studios adapt, not the consumer.
     
  21. silk186

    silk186 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,601
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    I've returned PS2 games I recieved from Christmas after playing them. I traded a crap games based on some crap disney movie for FFX. 15 days is enough to beat almost any game. I think the solution with digital download is 14 days if game play is less than X hours. 5 hours would be enough to get a feel of the game but not finish it.
     
    Nolan7689 likes this.
  22. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,961
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    The amount should be dynamic. A cookie cutter open world RPG should get 5 or so hours, but a well crafted campaign/story based game 2 hours. MP games 4-5 hours, ect.
     
  23. alxlwson

    alxlwson You Know Where I Live

    Messages:
    6,165
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    I wonder if you can return opened movies over there?
     
  24. silk186

    silk186 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,601
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    That would be overly complicated to assess.
     
    defaultluser and vegeta535 like this.
  25. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,961
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Not really. They play the games to rate them, they can roughly figure out the length when they do that.
     
  26. Kardonxt

    Kardonxt 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,926
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    I do hate the nintendo store on my switch. I bought an arcade game port that was honestly terrible. I really wanted my money back (within like 30 seconds of game play), but would have been satisfied with the ability to leave a poor review to warn others. Unfortunately neither is an option.
     
    defaultluser likes this.