Nintendo NX Handheld To Use Nvidia Tegra-Based SoC?

[Megalith]

If there is even a shred of truth to this report, we will be seeing Nvidia tech in Nintendo’s next console effort. ATI designs were used in the GameCube and other previous systems.

According to SemiAccurate, the Nintendo NX handheld will be using Nvidia Tegra-based SoC. Apparently, the Nvidia team was told to get a console win no matter what, and Nintendo supposedly got a very favorable deal, so favorable that SemiAccurate is now sure it’s a true win for the Nvidia team. More details are shared by SemiAccurate on their website, but the article is only available to subscribers. Thankfully, NeoGAF forums member Fourth Storm has provided a summary of what the article reveals.

 

[Stoly]

But, why?

 

[fdiaz78]

Tegra keeps getting beat every generation by powervr. It's a loser.

 

[Pieter3dnow]

Entertaining enough

 

[viscountalpha]

Tegra keeps getting beat every generation by powervr. It's a loser.

Just because somethings better doesn't mean the cost/performance delta isn't good. Maybe it's the cheaper option. The real question is will it get the job done?

 

[jbltecnicspro]

Tegra keeps getting beat every generation by powervr. It's a loser.

It only has to be good enough...

 

[ChadD]

Why assume the tegra will be used in a handheld and not an actual NX console. There are serious rumors that Apple will start shipping full osx macbooks with their own SOC before the end of the year. Is it really crazy to think that a game console couldn't be powered by one or two next gen SOC. Nintendo could put 2 of them in there and still be looking at 1/4 the cost of the chips in the other guys hardware and not really be giving anything at all up in terms of performance.

With all the crazy rumors these days... I don't think dual SOC running the SOC gpus in a type of sli setup is any more odd sounding.

 

[Nolan7689]

I doubt it. Nintendo can be pretty stubborn and set in their ways about things. They've been utilizing ATI/AMD since the N64 essentially. ArtX/SGI were responsible for the 64, and began work on the GameCube before ATi acquired them. Nintendo has pretty well stuck with them. Handhelds they've typically gone with ARM and often they focus on power efficiency and low cost far more than actual power capabilities. Hell they cheap out on screen quality too in my opinion. Durable machines though.

 

[ChadD]

I doubt it. Nintendo can be pretty stubborn and set in their ways about things. They've been utilizing ATI/AMD since the N64 essentially. ArtX/SGI were responsible for the 64, and began work on the GameCube before ATi acquired them. Nintendo has pretty well stuck with them. Handhelds they've typically gone with ARM and often they focus on power efficiency and low cost far more than actual power capabilities. Hell they cheap out on screen quality too in my opinion. Durable machines though.

Well if they did pick nvidia for a handheld, they are sticking with arm. The only thing changing would be their previous use of a custom GPU, their last few gen of handheld have run ARM cores. At this point it doesn't make much sense for Nintendo to continue and try to reinvent the wheel, the Tegra will have the latest ARM cores and if it is customized tegra for them it could even include an older core to provide perfect backwards compatibility.

I still like the idea more they would be using these for a full console, if the rumors of Nintendo going back to carts is true. Couple that with the much lower cost of running a few custom SOC chips perhaps we could see a Nintendo console priced far less then the other guys. A console priced around 2x the cost of your average AAA game, that could play FUN games could be a hit. It would come down to the games. Nintendo has always been good at catching the Kids market. The standard consoles have been more and more going after the Mature game audience which is great, Nintendo would be wise to leave Sony and MS to duke it out over that market and make a console that ends up under Xmas trees. A big part of that is cost. Most of us buying consoles buy them for ourselves, not our kids. lol Give me a $150 Nintendo console I can buy for my kids and I'm sold.

 

[alamox]

this could be for a handheld device or the controllers, since NX gamepad are rumored to be a handheld console also, so ARM soc seem plausible, but if they are planning on replacing the WiiU with an ARM (ie the console it self), then Rip Nintendo, they just cannot keep being dragged behind performance wise, especialy with the hardware upgrade from PS4 Neo and xbone 1.5, it will just be WiiU all over again, no crossplatform titles, leaving it with their own exclusives, which will end up a fail because there is just so many exclusives they can release during the console's life, the other explanation is nintendo making android games like on phones or the ouya, very short developement time of few months instead of few years, which will bring the quality of the games down to the floor, or Nintendo decided handheld/phone is the market they want and that living room consoles is thing of the past, in this case Rip nintendo as we know it, and they will join Sega among the forgotten.
in any case Nintendo using Tegra for a WiiU replacement seem unlikely, although not impossible for nintendo, they can be stupid enough to do it with their misplaced confidence that they are unique.

 

[alamox]

I still like the idea more they would be using these for a full console, if the rumors of Nintendo going back to carts is true. Couple that with the much lower cost of running a few custom SOC chips perhaps we could see a Nintendo console priced far less then the other guys. A console priced around 2x the cost of your average AAA game, that could play FUN games could be a hit. It would come down to the games. Nintendo has always been good at catching the Kids market. The standard consoles have been more and more going after the Mature game audience which is great, Nintendo would be wise to leave Sony and MS to duke it out over that market and make a console that ends up under Xmas trees. A big part of that is cost. Most of us buying consoles buy them for ourselves, not our kids. lol Give me a $150 Nintendo console I can buy for my kids and I'm sold.

you mean something like an ouya ? there is no way around it, if the next living room console of Nintendo is using ARM, then it's a 100% dead console, and will probably lose whatever fanbase they have left, they really dont have alot of room to screw up after the WiiU, ppl want a console to play GTA5, Uncharted 4, Witcher3... not candy crush.

 

[jwcalla]

you mean something like an ouya ? there is no way around it, if the next living room console of Nintendo is using ARM, then it's a 100% dead console, and will probably lose whatever fanbase they have left, they really dont have alot of room to screw up after the WiiU, ppl want a console to play GTA5, Uncharted 4, Witcher3... not candy crush.

That'll depend on how big the chip is.

If it's a 10 watt jobber then yeah you're not going to get the best experience.

 

[Quix]

Tegra keeps getting beat every generation by powervr. It's a loser.

Nvidia can design an entire custom chip for Nintendo. Stock ARM CPU, Nvidia GPU, all specced however Nintendo wants. It's similar to how AMD has won all the home consoles, one stop shop.

 

[ChadD]

you mean something like an ouya ? there is no way around it, if the next living room console of Nintendo is using ARM, then it's a 100% dead console, and will probably lose whatever fanbase they have left, they really dont have alot of room to screw up after the WiiU, ppl want a console to play GTA5, Uncharted 4, Witcher3... not candy crush.

I don't argue the current console market is the mature audience games you listed. The thing is Nintendo has never ever ever been good at providing PC style games in the living room. They have been good at doing Nintendo style games though. The WII market is what they are after again... not the PS/Xbox market.

You can say gamers want Uncharted 4 and not Candy Crush if you like... but the hard truth is Candy Crush makes over 300k A DAY. The uncharted series in comparison has sold just under 30 million units, assuming marketing, development, and sales cuts to all the middle men they are profiting $10 a copy that's $300 million and a great haul for the develpers... if Nintendo was worried about getting their piece of that that market at best they would account for 33% of the sales assuming they move units at the pace of Sony and MS. Of which they might take $2-5 a copy sold for 20-50 million. Where as if they indeed pushed the next Candy Crush they would be looking at the same $ in their pockets 2 months in. (assuming the game sold as well as that terrible money maker Candy Crush)

Frankly Nintendo would be beyond stupid to try and make yet another console to compete for the market already dominated by Sony and MS. They are not releasing a Playstation killer ever, they never have so why would that happen now.

What they have had success with was the Wii... it was their last real success. When we say success we have to remember they are in the game of making $... not spec boxes for fan boys to droll over. Nintendo made more money with the Wii then the last 2 generation consoles from the other guys combined. That is the hard truth.

What they should be and likely are shooting for is an inexpensive console that will sell to the masses. (and Arm and Tegra would likely do that at a profit to boot) We may get all giddy about the specs on a PS4 reboot or an xbox update... really though at 350-500 bucks a unit there are a lot of people out their without a console and they don't miss them. I can't imagine Nintendo is going to shoot for that price point and try and compete with the hardcore gamers that have been trained to read spec sheets. I am quite sure they will instead try and repeat the success of the Wii. Trying to go head to head would be a pipe dream... and frankly there is more profit in selling their own unique stuff then creating a platform for the development houses to "support", why go after 20-30% of another companies game sales to get a small % kick back... when they can instead focus on their own games or developers willing to buy into their own unique console. The % are far better when you own the software being sold, or have a partnership deal with an outside house, instead of having to pretty much PAY the big houses, or at the very least support them with engineers for a bit of their scraps.

 

[nutzo]

I don't argue the current console market is the mature audience games you listed. The thing is Nintendo has never ever ever been good at providing PC style games in the living room. They have been good at doing Nintendo style games though. The WII market is what they are after again... not the PS/Xbox market.

+1

Nothing they can bring out will have any chance of competing directly with the current PS/Xbox. They need to target a different market. I purchased the Wii years ago because I wanted something with family/kids games, something I found lacking on both the xbox and the ps.

One of the big problems with the WiiU was the higher cost due to the tablet controller. What they need is something priced low enough, that it becomes an easy decision to toss one under the tree at Christmas time. Add lots of party/family games (they can just update some of the better Wii games) and they will have a whole new generation wanting to buy it.

As for the tablet controller, it was a gimmick that was too expensive and hurt the WiiU sales . What they need to do is allow the 3DS to be used as a controller on the new console instead, since many kids will already have one.

 

[ChadD]

Nvidia can design an entire custom chip for Nintendo. Stock ARM CPU, Nvidia GPU, all specced however Nintendo wants. It's similar to how AMD has won all the home consoles, one stop shop.

Where also at a point where the 2 paths of Mobile and Desktop are about to collide in the next year or two in a big way. ARM based SOC have been watt for watt the better chip vs the Intel/AMD low power offerings for a few years now. The next gen of ARM Soc that are about to start shipping this year are likely going to outperform low-mid range Core processors. The software engineering has also gotten a lot more mature in supporting the ARM and the soc GPUs. Where going to start seeing crazy things like Macbooks running A10 ARM chips... and they aren't going to suck. The ARM guys have been saying recently that by early 2018 mobile ARM SOC will be on par with the PS4/Xbone. The NX is slated for launch spring 2017... if its a custom non mobile ARM chip I would think its more then realistic to assume it will be as good a processor as the AMD cores shipping now. There is also nothing stopping Nintendo from including a much more powerful GPU design in their NX core. A custom Nvidia chip with a mobile Pascal GPU + 8-12 Arm Ares cores... will likely wipe the floor with the current gen of AMD console silicon. If the other guys hold fast to x86 I think it would be their mistake in the long run. I doubt the next gen Sony console will be X86, and I am not sure the new MS is even relishing the fight past this gen.

 

[alamox]

I don't argue the current console market is the mature audience games you listed. The thing is Nintendo has never ever ever been good at providing PC style games in the living room. They have been good at doing Nintendo style games though. The WII market is what they are after again... not the PS/Xbox market.

You can say gamers want Uncharted 4 and not Candy Crush if you like... but the hard truth is Candy Crush makes over 300k A DAY. The uncharted series in comparison has sold just under 30 million units, assuming marketing, development, and sales cuts to all the middle men they are profiting $10 a copy that's $300 million and a great haul for the develpers... if Nintendo was worried about getting their piece of that that market at best they would account for 33% of the sales assuming they move units at the pace of Sony and MS. Of which they might take $2-5 a copy sold for 20-50 million. Where as if they indeed pushed the next Candy Crush they would be looking at the same $ in their pockets 2 months in. (assuming the game sold as well as that terrible money maker Candy Crush)

Frankly Nintendo would be beyond stupid to try and make yet another console to compete for the market already dominated by Sony and MS. They are not releasing a Playstation killer ever, they never have so why would that happen now.

What they have had success with was the Wii... it was their last real success. When we say success we have to remember they are in the game of making $... not spec boxes for fan boys to droll over. Nintendo made more money with the Wii then the last 2 generation consoles from the other guys combined. That is the hard truth.

What they should be and likely are shooting for is an inexpensive console that will sell to the masses. (and Arm and Tegra would likely do that at a profit to boot) We may get all giddy about the specs on a PS4 reboot or an xbox update... really though at 350-500 bucks a unit there are a lot of people out their without a console and they don't miss them. I can't imagine Nintendo is going to shoot for that price point and try and compete with the hardcore gamers that have been trained to read spec sheets. I am quite sure they will instead try and repeat the success of the Wii. Trying to go head to head would be a pipe dream... and frankly there is more profit in selling their own unique stuff then creating a platform for the development houses to "support", why go after 20-30% of another companies game sales to get a small % kick back... when they can instead focus on their own games or developers willing to buy into their own unique console. The % are far better when you own the software being sold, or have a partnership deal with an outside house, instead of having to pretty much PAY the big houses, or at the very least support them with engineers for a bit of their scraps.

true, they still can do that on iOS/Android without launching a console, i would understand if it was a handheld like 3DS, but apparently it's more than that, which is just confusing, wanna cash in on fast developed games, fine do mobile games or a 4DS, and as you said if they dont want to face sony and microsoft, and concede to losing the war, why do they need to go to the living room with PS4 and Xbone with a full blown console, and have the same constraints of having a platform/API/hardware/support and so on, just to be perceived as the joke speced console Again!

 

[alamox]

2018...ARM comparable to PS4....easy to compare 10/7nm ARM to a 32/28nm from 2011, but would that ARM compete with a 14/10nm core in 2018 ?

 

[ChadD]

....why do they need to go to the living room with PS4 and Xbone with a full blown console, and have the same constraints of having a platform/API/hardware/support and so on, just to be perceived as the joke speced console Again!

Because the mass market Nintendo is going after isn't even the same market. They are an insanely smart and patient company. They are not Sega. They are sitting on something like 10 Billion dollars in Cash... and they have operated at a nice profit through almost the entire 10+ year console war.

2018...ARM comparable to PS4....easy to compare 10/7nm ARM to a 32/28nm from 2011, but would that ARM compete with a 14/10nm core in 2018 ?

Does it have to ? No one is looking for The legend of Zelda redone with Id Tech 6.

Even if Sony and MS both release new consoles at the same time... Nintendo won't much care. My point is Nintendo will let them sell to the $500 console market that is looking to play Doom on a console. Nintendo will aim for $150-200, and get a console on par with a PS4 at 1/8 the cost, Nintendo makes the kinda games that sell. They also happen to own them which means they make the profit not EA. The facts are the facts, the mature audience games made by the EAs of the world. That sell to the types of folks that care about paper specs, are not buying the software that brings in the coin right now.

If Nintendo pulls off PS4.5 performance in a console selling for the price of a couple games, and are making a profit on every unit. (because ARM is way cheaper then x86, and it sounds like they have bent Nvidia over a bit if the rumor is true) Then Nintendo is going to laugh all the way to the bank just like they did with the Wii.(where they bent ATI over thanks to the Art deal) I mean lets face it Sony has had a very hard time turning a profit. Sony lost more money on the PS3 then it made with the PS2, they sell the PS4 well below cost... how many of these headlines have we seen in the last 4 or 5 years. "PS4 sales look strong, but Sony expects to make another loss next year".

The fact is Nintendo is WINNING the console war and they have been for 10 years now.

Microsoft will be the first to bow out, I think its a good bet the Xbone will be the last MS console.

Sony will likely hang around, if their share holders haven't forced them to put the breaks on after 10 years of bleeding money to stay "#1" on paper in the console war. They aren't about to start if MS drops out.

The Wii sold at a profit and Nintendo made a killing on Wii games. They made more money with that one console in 2 years then Sony has made in 10 with the PS3/4.(at one point Nintendo was making $50 a console in the US where Sony was loosing almost $100... and when it comes to games most of the highest selling games where Nintendo published. They make 100% of the profit from a Mario/Zelda game.) To give you an idea of how big a deal that really is... in 2011, just 5 years ago Nintendo sold 500,000 wii consoles on black friday at around a $50 profit each, that is $25 Million in profit in one day not counting software sales. Same year Sony posted an almost 6 billion dollar loss, granted that wasn't all Playstations fault but PS didn't help at all.

The WiiU may not have had the massive sales the Wii had... it was only sold at a loss for a year or so, Nintendo has been quietly making profits on the system since. Nintendo profited to the tune of $300 million last quarter and Sony Lost yet again to the tune of $800 million. If that is loosing the console war I doubt Nintendo wants to "win". They have a stack of cash and have been pretty much sitting quietly waiting for the other 2 guys to punch each other out. With the push to mobile even the big publishing houses are cooling off on the "big" Console type games. The NX looks to be hitting at a very good time for Nintendo to put away some more Wii like bank.

 

[vengence]

I was going to complain about not linking directly to the source, then I found out that Charlie Demerjian thinks his opinions are worth a paywall these days.

 

[Revdarian]

Seriously doubtful as this comes out of Charlie's ass, while most serious "nintendo insiders" have reported that they are still happy with AMD.

edit to add:
Also, did Nvidia mention any custom chip wins or any other similar deal on their financial report?, i remember no such thing to be quite honest, while AMD did report theirs.

Nintendo NX will powered by an NVIDIA Tegra processor, not an AMD chip => Saw it on the vidcard forums from tweaktown buuuuuuuuuuut...

I will still not really believe this until confirmed by the Big N at some point, specially due to the lack of mentions during the last financial. These deals take a long time in the making and yes they are disclosed a bit on the yearly financial reports.

 

[alamox]

Because the mass market Nintendo is going after isn't even the same market. They are an insanely smart and patient company. They are not Sega. They are sitting on something like 10 Billion dollars in Cash... and they have operated at a nice profit through almost the entire 10+ year console war.



Does it have to ? No one is looking for The legend of Zelda redone with Id Tech 6.

Even if Sony and MS both release new consoles at the same time... Nintendo won't much care. My point is Nintendo will let them sell to the $500 console market that is looking to play Doom on a console. Nintendo will aim for $150-200, and get a console on par with a PS4 at 1/8 the cost, Nintendo makes the kinda games that sell. They also happen to own them which means they make the profit not EA. The facts are the facts, the mature audience games made by the EAs of the world. That sell to the types of folks that care about paper specs, are not buying the software that brings in the coin right now.

If Nintendo pulls off PS4.5 performance in a console selling for the price of a couple games, and are making a profit on every unit. (because ARM is way cheaper then x86, and it sounds like they have bent Nvidia over a bit if the rumor is true) Then Nintendo is going to laugh all the way to the bank just like they did with the Wii.(where they bent ATI over thanks to the Art deal) I mean lets face it Sony has had a very hard time turning a profit. Sony lost more money on the PS3 then it made with the PS2, they sell the PS4 well below cost... how many of these headlines have we seen in the last 4 or 5 years. "PS4 sales look strong, but Sony expects to make another loss next year".

The fact is Nintendo is WINNING the console war and they have been for 10 years now.

Microsoft will be the first to bow out, I think its a good bet the Xbone will be the last MS console.

Sony will likely hang around, if their share holders haven't forced them to put the breaks on after 10 years of bleeding money to stay "#1" on paper in the console war. They aren't about to start if MS drops out.

The Wii sold at a profit and Nintendo made a killing on Wii games. They made more money with that one console in 2 years then Sony has made in 10 with the PS3/4.(at one point Nintendo was making $50 a console in the US where Sony was loosing almost $100... and when it comes to games most of the highest selling games where Nintendo published. They make 100% of the profit from a Mario/Zelda game.) To give you an idea of how big a deal that really is... in 2011, just 5 years ago Nintendo sold 500,000 wii consoles on black friday at around a $50 profit each, that is $25 Million in profit in one day not counting software sales. Same year Sony posted an almost 6 billion dollar loss, granted that wasn't all Playstations fault but PS didn't help at all.

The WiiU may not have had the massive sales the Wii had... it was only sold at a loss for a year or so, Nintendo has been quietly making profits on the system since. Nintendo profited to the tune of $300 million last quarter and Sony Lost yet again to the tune of $800 million. If that is loosing the console war I doubt Nintendo wants to "win". They have a stack of cash and have been pretty much sitting quietly waiting for the other 2 guys to punch each other out. With the push to mobile even the big publishing houses are cooling off on the "big" Console type games. The NX looks to be hitting at a very good time for Nintendo to put away some more Wii like bank.

ok 1 million dollar question for you.
how will nintendo avoid the same WiiU problem happenning again to the NX, and i am not talking about the N° of consoles sold, but the N° of titles released each year.

 

[Lakados]

If the rumours are true, and the new console works in tandem with their new hand held units and they are staying true to their word about increasing the availability of digital downloads for these systems I think this could be awesome. I really wanted to like the Wii U but the games just never came, I don't really care about graphics on consoles too much I have a PC for that I just want something I can lounge on the couch with half reclined and enjoy. And if that means this system offers me the availability to transfer a title to the controller and take that with me then all the better.

 

[ChadD]

ok 1 million dollar question for you.
how will nintendo avoid the same WiiU problem happenning again to the NX, and i am not talking about the N° of consoles sold, but the N° of titles released each year.

If the rumors are true it sounds like it will be easier for the current segment of mobile game companies to support their platform. For a developer flush with mobile cash the idea of crossing over to console sales might be pretty tempting. The main issue with the WiiU was the numbers sold, there was a perception that the target market was small true (which yes it mostly was) or not. If Nintendo is planning a system where the games can go mobile... and they tap into and sell hardware to their massive Handheld market. I would say they will have no issues at all getting developers to shower them in third party software. (there has never been a shortage of companies making software for Nintendo handhelds.)

 

[RanceJustice]

I honestly don't know how they've progressed to date, but my experience with Tegra chips hasn't been great. I can remember earlier Android phones and tablets with Tegra chipsets and there were special edition "Tegra games" that were supposed to be better than the rest of the genre, but turned out being more cumbersome to deal with than the GPUs on other high end ARM SoCs. If the NX is a handheld device, it is no surprise if it might be an ARM chipset, but Tegra doesn't seem like a very good idea... and unless lots have changed, it will mean that getting 3rd party developers onboard will be even harder.