Nikola stock craters after chairman fails to rebut fraud allegations

erek

erek

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cdabc123 The Lurker

The Lurker said:
cdabc123 , nikola is a scam and a fraud plain and simple. Watch, that ceo Milton is going to be in jail in a year.

And lucid? Aside from some batteries, it's Vaporware. I lump them in the same category as Nio and Xpev except they were smart enough to pay a bunch of white guys to be face men.
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"But as the new day dawned, Milton announced he wouldn't be releasing a rebuttal after all. Instead, the company filed a complaint with the Securities and Exchange Commission charging that the Hindenburg report was false and deceptive.

"On advice of counsel however, I won’t comment further now other than saying that we have involved SEC," Milton wrote. He claimed to be "pissed" that he couldn't publish a response, saying that he "would love nothing more than to go out and tell everyone point by point."

In an official statement on Thursday, Nikola said the company "has been vetted by some of the world’s most credible companies and investors. We are on a path to success and will not waver based on a report filled with misleading information attempting to manipulate our stock.” The company didn't respond to a follow-up email asking about specific allegations in the Hindenburg report."

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https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/0...pe-was-rolling-downhill-in-promotional-video/
 

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erek said:
cdabc123 The Lurker



"But as the new day dawned, Milton announced he wouldn't be releasing a rebuttal after all. Instead, the company filed a complaint with the Securities and Exchange Commission charging that the Hindenburg report was false and deceptive.

"On advice of counsel however, I won’t comment further now other than saying that we have involved SEC," Milton wrote. He claimed to be "pissed" that he couldn't publish a response, saying that he "would love nothing more than to go out and tell everyone point by point."

In an official statement on Thursday, Nikola said the company "has been vetted by some of the world’s most credible companies and investors. We are on a path to success and will not waver based on a report filled with misleading information attempting to manipulate our stock.” The company didn't respond to a follow-up email asking about specific allegations in the Hindenburg report."

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https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/0...pe-was-rolling-downhill-in-promotional-video/
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they are certainly not a "real" company right now so i think the only argument is weither they are burning investor money or trying to make a actuall buisness. I lean to the first option and dont want to hear any stupid statments like "we are on a path to success" from a company still trying to build themselves
 
Im just surprised Milton hasnt figured out how to sell carbon credits yet. That's all we need now, a bunch of shell automotive companies selling their credits to the big 3.
 
The Lurker said:
Im just surprised Milton hasnt figured out how to sell carbon credits yet. That's all we need now, a bunch of shell automotive companies selling their credits to the big 3.
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Hmm, that’s a good idea 💡
 
The Lurker said:
Game over folks
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Not so fast. GM is completely unbothered by the allegations. That says a lot. I think anyone writing Nikola's obituary is really jumping the gun. There are some things that don't look very good and may result in some SEC sanctions, but there is far more evidence that Nikola is a legitimate concern trying to produce actual vehicles.

So, what's more likely... Nikola is an elaborate fraud that has fooled the likes of General Motors, Anheuser-Busch and other large corporate investors yet a one-man short operation revealed the truth.... or someone who makes their living shorting companies put out a trumped up hit piece in an attempt to make some money, not caring if they hurt anyone?

I'm going with the latter option as the more likely. We'll see how this plays out. There is plenty of hate for Elon Musk and he's legitimate. I have no reason at this point to think Milton is a fraud.
 
doublejack said:
Not so fast. GM is completely unbothered by the allegations. That says a lot. I think anyone writing Nikola's obituary is really jumping the gun. There are some things that don't look very good and may result in some SEC sanctions, but there is far more evidence that Nikola is a legitimate concern trying to produce actual vehicles.

So, what's more likely... Nikola is an elaborate fraud that has fooled the likes of General Motors, Anheuser-Busch and other large corporate investors yet a one-man short operation revealed the truth.... or someone who makes their living shorting companies put out a trumped up hit piece in an attempt to make some money, not caring if they hurt anyone?

I'm going with the latter option as the more likely. We'll see how this plays out. There is plenty of hate for Elon Musk and he's legitimate. I have no reason at this point to think Milton is a fraud.
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while i think he's done some stupid stuff like showing off a truck that was not operational and they knew it and lied to get more money i don't think he's a fraud. i think they legitimately have plans to release it but don't have the people in place or the experience necessary to meet their internal deadlines. after all there's a reason tesla started small and worked their way up to trucks, Milton's trying to do the opposite.

this smells very similar to the bullshit that happened to AMD with the fake security exploit.
 
doublejack said:
Not so fast. GM is completely unbothered by the allegations. That says a lot. I think anyone writing Nikola's obituary is really jumping the gun. There are some things that don't look very good and may result in some SEC sanctions, but there is far more evidence that Nikola is a legitimate concern trying to produce actual vehicles.

So, what's more likely... Nikola is an elaborate fraud that has fooled the likes of General Motors, Anheuser-Busch and other large corporate investors yet a one-man short operation revealed the truth.... or someone who makes their living shorting companies put out a trumped up hit piece in an attempt to make some money, not caring if they hurt anyone?

I'm going with the latter option as the more likely. We'll see how this plays out. There is plenty of hate for Elon Musk and he's legitimate. I have no reason at this point to think Milton is a fraud.
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GM is in a win-win agreement with Nikola regardless of whether Nikola makes it or fails. See this for details: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/09/why-gm-is-sticking-with-nikola-despite-fraud-allegations/

TL;DR is that GM cannot lose money on its deal with Nikola. The worst that would happen is that they would be vaguely associated with a failed company.
 
Comparisons to Theranos are way off base. Theranos had a long history of being sued for breach of contract and failure to deliver well before actual fraud allegations were made. Nikola isn't Theranos, and it isn't Fyre. That much is clear. There are actual prototype vehicles and they fully function.

sirmonkey1985 said:
while i think he's done some stupid stuff like showing off a truck that was not operational and they knew it and lied to get more money i don't think he's a fraud. i think they legitimately have plans to release it but don't have the people in place or the experience necessary to meet their internal deadlines. after all there's a reason tesla started small and worked their way up to trucks, Milton's trying to do the opposite.

this smells very similar to the bullshit that happened to AMD with the fake security exploit.
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Yes, it does smell a lot like that. If we go into the wayback machine, this is also very similar to what happened to Preston Tucker in the 40s. Tucker tried to break in to the auto manufacturing business and was sued for fraud, and lost (Tucker actually won the court case against the SEC, but the battle bankrupted the company), despite actually producing 50 cars. Logistical issues prevented him from ramping up production to meet goals. There was no question about his motive, just issues with the follow through.

I believe this is why Milton agreed to the deal with GM. They can be of massive assistance in bringing the designs to fruition.
 
Tsumi said:
GM is in a win-win agreement with Nikola regardless of whether Nikola makes it or fails. See this for details: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/09/why-gm-is-sticking-with-nikola-despite-fraud-allegations/

TL;DR is that GM cannot lose money on its deal with Nikola. The worst that would happen is that they would be vaguely associated with a failed company.
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I know all that. The point is that there's simply no way GM gets into an agreement with a company that is a blatant fraud, as is alleged. Nikola is attempting to actually produce vehicles. Whether they can pull it off or not is another story, but the intent matters.
 
doublejack said:
There are actual prototype vehicles and they fully function.
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Made of other company's off the shelf parts (with their logos/part numbers taped over to make people think Nikola built the stuff themselves), if they're not just literally rolling down a hill 'powered by hydrogen gravity' lmao

GM has a sweetheart deal where they lose nothing aside getting some egg on their face if Nikola implodes. They're smart to not fold, cause they have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Nikola is either an intentional fraud, or an unintentional incompetent shit show. Neither is optimal or hope inspiring.
 
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doublejack said:
I know all that. The point is that there's simply no way GM gets into an agreement with a company that is a blatant fraud, as is alleged. Nikola is attempting to actually produce vehicles. Whether they can pull it off or not is another story, but the intent matters.
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Selling rebranded GM vehicles is hardly the innovation Nikola claims to be pushing. It may not be a completely blatant fraud, but it's still a fraud.
 
Tsumi said:
Selling rebranded GM vehicles is hardly the innovation Nikola claims to be pushing. It may not be a completely blatant fraud, but it's still a fraud.
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That's incorrect. The Badger is not a rebrand / rebadge. It is a Nikola design that will use some GM technologies and be manufactured for Nikola by GM. By your definition, everything Apple sells is rebranded, since they outsource all manufacturing. Are AMD Ryzen processors rebranded TMSC chips?

Look, there's plenty of things that one can legitimately criticize Nikola for. The company, and Milton, may very well face SEC sanctions. There's no need to make things up.
 
Tesla started off with a roadster built with a Lotus chassis, carbon body panels from Sotira, air bags tires windshield suspension are all Lotus parts, Brakes and crash testing provided by Siemens.

So I would say the best way to get rolling is probably using what is out there that fits your design goals and can be had for the right price. Of course at some point you have to actually build something... so you can get sales so you can start building your own part supply.

No idea if Nikola is simply in the same boat Tesla was out of the gate.... or if they are an intentional or unintentional scam. I would be cautious anyway... there stock will either explode and make you rich or completely loose you some money. Doesn't get much gamblier then these guys.
 
staknhalo said:
Could always sell puts
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He's not that experienced yet. A new 2020 trader. I just convinced him to quit the penny stocks and buy blue chips and indexes until he gets his account over 25K.
He will have a better understanding of options, puts etc. on his journey. I'm a long term guy, he wants to day trade.

I saw the CEO on I think CNBC, his expectations weren't tangible to me.
 
For everyone looking to mess with unstable stocks I would sugest you look elsewhere. There is a decent degree of manipulation for (quite a few) stocks and I promise for small shit shows normally the adverage buy and hold position wont make anything from this manipulation. Times are weird right now but I would say there are definitely buys that have decent value propositions for the future this is not one of those
 
cdabc123 said:
For everyone looking to mess with unstable stocks I would sugest you look elsewhere. There is a decent degree of manipulation for (quite a few) stocks and I promise for small shit shows normally the adverage buy and hold position wont make anything from this manipulation. Times are weird right now but I would say there are definitely buys that have decent value propositions for the future this is not one of those
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If we're going to take that angle, I'm not sure the stock market is safe at all. There are trillions of federal dollars propping everything up. The only thing that may save the market from a crash is a bout of hyperinflation. Everything is way overvalued right now.
 
doublejack said:
If we're going to take that angle, I'm not sure the stock market is safe at all. There are trillions of federal dollars propping everything up. The only thing that may save the market from a crash is a bout of hyperinflation. Everything is way overvalued right now.
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I would agree but still believe there are buys with more value then the shell of a company just burning through investor money
 
doublejack said:
Not so fast. GM is completely unbothered by the allegations. That says a lot. I think anyone writing Nikola's obituary is really jumping the gun. There are some things that don't look very good and may result in some SEC sanctions, but there is far more evidence that Nikola is a legitimate concern trying to produce actual vehicles.

So, what's more likely... Nikola is an elaborate fraud that has fooled the likes of General Motors, Anheuser-Busch and other large corporate investors yet a one-man short operation revealed the truth.... or someone who makes their living shorting companies put out a trumped up hit piece in an attempt to make some money, not caring if they hurt anyone?

I'm going with the latter option as the more likely. We'll see how this plays out. There is plenty of hate for Elon Musk and he's legitimate. I have no reason at this point to think Milton is a fraud.
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Theranos
 
Ha! Hilarious.

Either they are going pull a rabbit or this is it.
 
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