Newbie needs help to check whether calibration done correctly

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Hi, i need some help to figure out whether i did my calibration correctly seeing as i am a newbie



The results


I reset to factory settings which were all 50 before i ran the calibration process. I followed the software instructions and set the following below to meet the target.

red 18

green 23

blue 50

brightness 22



Did i do this correctly I was using the X-rite Eye one display 2 calibrator on a Dell 2405 FPW lcd monitor with the Basic Color software instead of the Eye Match software.


Is it correct that blue is showing high in the charts ? When i was calibrating i left the blue as the default 50 as this was what someone suggested i do, and i only adjusted red and green to meet the target as follows.

6500 lumi

220

2.2 gamma

Any thoughts ? Yes i made just my monitor was warmed up for an hour or more. Also background lighting was turned off. I also set to factory before i started to calibrate.

 

[Snowdog]

First:

Same as before. Is RGB 50 the max?? I thought it was 100 (I owned a 2405).

If so start by setting them all to about 85 or 90 before and then adjust your white balance. I can't imaging the result actually looks good with that much panel blocking. (ie red at 18) I also don't get how your colors can be that far off to need that much blue.

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER use panel blocking to lower brightness except as a last resort. Use the brightness control that is what it is there for.

Second:
If there is a manual target for luminance, use that, don't provide a set target value. You should be able to select manual in a decent package, then actually adjust the brightness where you like it. Then calibration will be more involved in curve matching, and less in panel blocking to reach an irrelevant target.

What does it actually look like with this calibration, what does a gray gradient look like. I imagine it is a mess as your proably have about 40 shades of gray left to work with.
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php

 

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

First:

Same as before. Is RGB 50 the max?? I thought it was 100 (I owned a 2405).

RGB by default was set to 50. 100 seems to be the max.

Default brightness was 50.

If so start by setting them all to about 85 or 90 before and then adjust your white balance. I can't imaging the result actually looks good with that much panel blocking. (ie red at 18) I also don't get how your colors can be that far off to need that much blue.

I set to factory settings which RGB were all by default 50. Do you want me to reset, then to adjust to 85 before i re run the calibration ?

Like i said earlier, someone said to leave blue at 50, and to just only adjust red and green to meet the 2.2 gamma target.

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER use panel blocking to lower brightness except as a last resort. Use the brightness control that is what it is there for.

I don't know what panel blocking is After the RGB calibration, i then calibrate the brightness to meet the luminance target which was 65000 using the monitor's menu.

Second:
If there is a manual target for luminance, use that, don't provide a set target value. You should be able to select manual in a decent package, then actually adjust the brightness where you like it. Then calibration will be more involved in curve matching, and less in panel blocking to reach an irrelevant target.

Manual target for luminance ? yes i set it to 65000. The calibrator tells me what my lumi is then i adjust to meet the target luminance.

What does it actually look like with this calibration, what does a gray gradient look like. I imagine it is a mess as your proably have about 40 shades of gray left to work with.
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php

I think it was alright. I took a PNG screenshot. My monitor is caliberated with my said settings.

Looks alright to me.

Here's my desktop screenshot

 

[Snowdog]

RGB by default was set to 50. 100 seems to be the max.

I set to factory settings which RGB were all by default 50. Do you want me to reset, then to adjust to 85 before i re run the calibration ?

That would be my suggestion (start at 85). There should be some presets that you can't change, what are the numbers on those? But if you are happy with the way it is now. I guess you can leave it all as is.

6500 is your color temperature. That is a reasonable target.

120 cd/m2 or 200 cd/m2 are luminance targets. This is what I am suggesting you put on manual if your software allows it. Instead of picking a number you adjust the panel brightness with the brightness control to where you like it.

Also I don't know what showing screencaps are supposed to show us. They would show the same thing even if you didn't have a monitor connected. I assume you are saying those gray gradients are smooth and with no steppings in them?

 

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Hm there is some lines, but compared to other examples they are finers and aren't as annoying.

 

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

My calibration

*posting pictures here soon


I noticed the factory settings is on Normal preset sRGB with the following.

RED 35

Green 37

Blue 28


I then went to User Preset which then changes all the settings to 50 for RGB. So i then followed what you suggested and bumped the settings to 85 out of a 100 for RGB.

I then started the calibration.Posted screenshots in ascending order for step by step of how i did the calibration



Step1

Step2

Step3

Step4

Step5



Step6




Step7




Step8




Step9




Step10




Step11




Step12




Step13




Step14












By the way if you have msn we could chat [email protected]

 

[Snowdog]

Strange monitor is all I can say. My dell 1707fp has all presets above 80 for RGB (out of a hundred) my NEC they are all close to max as well. It seems really strange to have the so low by default.

 

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Posted the pics

Uh oh yeah my rgb after calibrating i had adjusted to the following to meet all the targets mentioned.

red 17

green 22

blue 50

Brightness 90

 

[Snowdog]

You did the same thing again. Done banging head against brick wall. Leaves thread.

 

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Well i did exactly as you said ..... so where exactly did i deviate from your instructions ?

I've been very detailed as to what i did, so if you can kindly highlight at which point in these screenshots did i do wrong

It took me a while to post so yeah im trying my best here Please keep in mind im a newbie

 

[Drags]

hi there. in theory you dont really need to adjust the RGB values in the OSD to get good results from calibration process. Not sure about this "leaving blue at 50" business. i wouldn't recommend changing the monitor OSD afterwards to a comfortable level, you should set a target luminance in the software before, otherwise it will make all kinds of adjustments in the process, only for you to then mess things up by changing an OSD setting

i'd suggest setting monitor OSD brightness to around 35 (thats what i use on mine and i calibrate to target of 120 cd/m2 with software and colorimeter). contrast leave at 50. RGB YOU could leave as they are at 50 each, you wont want too much deviance between them all. mine are around the 35-40 mark each i believe.

choose a target luminance from the outset in the software, then let the auto process do the rest save and activate the profile and you're sorted

 

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Ok i will try this now

 

[Drags]

see how you get on

 

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Hi again.

I followed what you did i hope.

Step1 - Set to factory settings

Step 2 - Run basICColor software and set gamma target to 2.2, white luminance to 120, black luminance to Min. Neutral; and color temperature to D65

Step 3 - Under basICColor hardware setup > Color Temperature i clicked measure. This is where it then asks you to adjust the rgb and brightness to meet the targets set. But following your advise, i only changed RGB in OSD to 50 for all, and set brightness to 35. As shown in the screenshot the bars were not on the green line but i ignored this as you said not to adjust monitor OSD RGB and brightness to get the target value.

Step 4 - I ran calibrating and profiling. It did the measurements, however profile doesn't seem to be saved in the system.

Step 5 - So i went to review > monitor and saved the icc profile from there which then my computer is now successfully using. The results is shown in the following screenshot.

Judging from the screenshot i surprisingly got a better delta E compared to before ! However contrast has dropped a lot. Dell 2405 FPW contrast cannot be changed over DVI which was why it was left at the default. Could this be the reason ? Anything i did incorrectly :X ?




After 10 minutes i redid the review > monitor in BasICColor and got a different reading. My monitor was not turned off, and no settings were changed but the result changed quite a bit ! So which of the results should i trust :X ?

 

[10e]

Set the monitor to factory defaults/do a factory reset.

What you want to get right first, prior to changing RGB values is your target brightness by FIRST adjusting the brightness control to the required amount. This is an S-PVA panel and thus will be blazingly bright. When you adjust the RGB values to such a low amount all you are doing is washing out colors.

So here is what you should do:

1) At the step where you want your target brightness (120 or 140 cdm/2) adjust the monitor via brightness control to the target brightness with your RGB values set at factory. Measure this with the "settings" > "luminance/contrast ratio" > "measure" button. This will allow you to manually set the brightness with the backlight control prior to changing any color characteristics

2) Then go back to "settings" > "color temperature" > "Measure" and here is where you use the RGB values to set your color temperature as close to 6500K as possible via R, G, B manual controls. Do not massively change them up and down a lot. If the color temperature is too low (ie 6000K) reduce the red a bit or increase the blue. It doesn't have to be 100% perfect. Anywhere between 6300 and 6600k is fine.

3) Then go through with the calibration as you did, and in the step where it flashes up colors and the sliders are going up and down, keep the changes as conservative as possible. Theoretically you shouldn't have to change them much at all, but your monitor might have grey scale variances that could cause this to alter a bit. As long as the sliders are in the green shaded ranges you are fine.

When you leave the brightness so high and change the RGB sliders massively from factory without changing the brightness control, you are using video card LUTs+ monitor to employ panel blocking (ie. where the panel gets a light grey instead of white from the card). This massively reduces your contrast ratio, and you are also washing out the image because this changes the amount of red, blue, green "gain" you are getting for each color, and that also messes up your color ramps (ie. how much each color increases accordingly in relation to input).

When I calibrate, I use the monitor brightness control to set luminance to my target level with the brightness control, and then play with the RGB OSD adjustments as little as possible to get my perfect white point, though it's never at 6500k exactly.

Partially you massively changing the RGB controls is at fault for your blue being so far off. I have done this too in the past, and recognized that this doesn't work the way it should so I changed my process.

Hope that helps.

 

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Set the monitor to factory defaults/do a factory reset.

What you want to get right first, prior to changing RGB values is your target brightness by FIRST adjusting the brightness control to the required amount. This is an S-PVA panel and thus will be blazingly bright. When you adjust the RGB values to such a low amount all you are doing is washing out colors.

Ah i see.

Set the monitor to factory defaults/do a factory reset.So here is what you should do:

Done

1) At the step where you want your target brightness (120 or 140 cdm/2) adjust the monitor via brightness control to the target brightness with your RGB values set at factory. Measure this with the "settings" > "luminance/contrast ratio" > "measure" button. This will allow you to manually set the brightness with the backlight control prior to changing any color characteristics

Done.

Set the monitor to factory defaults/do a factory reset.2) Then go back to "settings" > "color temperature" > "Measure" and here is where you use the RGB values to set your color temperature as close to 6500K as possible via R, G, B manual controls. Do not massively change them up and down a lot. If the color temperature is too low (ie 6000K) reduce the red a bit or increase the blue. It doesn't have to be 100% perfect. Anywhere between 6300 and 6600k is fine.

On the custom RGB, the default 50 was very close to the 6500k mark. I adjusted the values very slightly and it achieved 6500k. RGB to achieve the target i believe were more or less 50 for all of them.

3) Then go through with the calibration as you did, and in the step where it flashes up colors and the sliders are going up and down, keep the changes as conservative as possible. Theoretically you shouldn't have to change them much at all, but your monitor might have grey scale variances that could cause this to alter a bit. As long as the sliders are in the green shaded ranges you are fine.

So basically i do adjust RGB and brightness again at the slider screen so they all reach the green bar is that right ? I adjusted RGB and brightness to make them all level on the green bar.

RGB is red: 18, green: 20, blue 47

brightness: 29


I understand from what you said earlier that the rgb values should be close to each other and the values shouldn't be low. I tried this but it was only possible to reach the green line for all of them at these values. I had adjusted RGB first, and then brightness, but then rgb was misaligned again so i adjusted RGB again, and then brightness till they all were level on the green bar

Confused on this part

When you leave the brightness so high and change the RGB sliders massively from factory without changing the brightness control, you are using video card LUTs+ monitor to employ panel blocking (ie. where the panel gets a light grey instead of white from the card). This massively reduces your contrast ratio, and you are also washing out the image because this changes the amount of red, blue, green "gain" you are getting for each color, and that also messes up your color ramps (ie. how much each color increases accordingly in relation to input).

Understood. So are you saying on the slider bit i should just have left the values as they were ? Because they were not going to align together on the green bar unless i changed the rgb values by a lot stuborn little critters. This is the point i get confused.

When I calibrate, I use the monitor brightness control to set luminance to my target level with the brightness control, and then play with the RGB OSD adjustments as little as possible to get my perfect white point, though it's never at 6500k exactly.

Yep did all this.

Partially you massively changing the RGB controls is at fault for your blue being so far off. I have done this too in the past, and recognized that this doesn't work the way it should so I changed my process.

Hope that helps.

Ugh. I got a little more understanding. I am pretty sure i followed your instructions correctly for the red highlighted quotes, but after that point i am not sure.


Anyway the result was this.

After a while i re-ran the review and found the results changed How can the average and max result change a lot

I suspect because when i reach the part calibrating and profiling it ran the calibration but when it tries to calculate it doesn't do anything. I check color manegement and no new profile was being used so i guess it didn't save the profile.

This is why i went to the review tab and did validate for monitor. I then click edit calibration and saved that as my ICC which i then checked that my OS was configured to use correctly.

Ugh.... maybe i try to do your guide but using Eye Match because it saves properly without a hitch, then i will use the review in basICColor to see the results brb.

 

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Re-did the same sort of calibration setting and method but using Eye Match Software.



As shown in Screenshot the results aren't as good as when i calibrated with the basICColor. Also in the eye match they have a before and after picture review. I could visibly see the diferrence between the Eye Match calibration and basICColor profile. basICColor looked much more natural imho :X

So sticking back to old profile for now :X

Ugh i've given up on this monitor. When my new HP LP2475W arrives i hope my calibration skillz fare better on it

 

[Drags]

it could be unreliability in the BasICColor reporting feature....the Match 3 software is god for calibrating. id calibrate with that and then have faith that it is set up pretty nicely

 

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

it could be unreliability in the BasICColor reporting feature....the Match 3 software is god for calibrating. id calibrate with that and then have faith that it is set up pretty nicely

Maybe your right. Probably too vain and looking at the basicolor result too much