New York Passes Minumum Wage Law for Uber and Lyft Drivers

[sfsuphysics]

Ok read through the PDF file that the Taxi/Limo mafia put together... and yeah I don't like New Yorkers... promulgates, promulgation, promulgated ... like seriously who talks like this except people trying to sound smart? Which outside of the first paragraph isn't mentioned again for the entire 33 page report, like they got their hoidy toidy fancy words to make them sound legit out of the way in the first paragraph then everything else was bleh...

 

[Nolan7689]

NY is only concerned about extracting the guaranteed income tax revenue that this will provide.

Ain't that the truth. I worked in that state for a single month and come tax time they figured what I owed based on my full year gross, then took the percentage of that monthgross/year gross of the tax amount. That way they're able to push me into the highest bracket possible.

 

[gamerk2]

Then we should abolish "independent contractors" all together and force all jobs to have a minimum wage because both groups "the business" and the "employee" are trying to bypass something to their benefit.

Contractors have their place; the issue is that Uber/Lyft is trying to treat their employees as contractors, rather then employees.

Except they aren't. What they are doing is making it uneconomical for Uber and Lyft to do business in New York. This is protectionism pure and simple.

For the purposes of NY, yes, they are doing this strictly for protectionism reasons. But the fact remains, Uber/Lyft, by treating their employees as contractors, undercuts the competition at the expense of their employees.

Do you know what a contractor is? A contractor means you can work as you please. You can work 10 hours. You can work 10 minutes. You can work 10 days - it's entirely up to you. Your pay is determined by how many hours choose to work (and that the client agrees for you to work)

Contract means you are expected to work 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week between the hours of 8:00 - 5:00 with little to no room for exceptions.

Which one does an Uber/Lyft driver sound more like to you?

If they are truly independent, then fine. But their rates are defined by Uber/Lyft, and they have to pay a percentage of their profits back to the parent company, which as far as most legal experts are concerned makes them employees, no independent contractors.

Now, if each Uber/Lyft driver could independently set their own rates, then the independent contractor argument would have legs to stand on. But so long as that is not the case, they are employees of Uber/Lyft, and should be treated as such.

 

[Deleted member 204526]

I think all high-tax locals around the world are watching Paris with a nervous eye.

 

[SixFootDuo]

What really bothers me is none of you have gone and looked at Ubers and Lyfts profits ... they are astronomical ... a lot of money is being made and the pay packages for the owners, investors, the front office are very very lucrative. But the gears, the blood and sweat of these drivers is being ignored and no one wants to pay then. They are being shitted on. I've never ever heard one of these drivers say they make good money. They at the very least should clear $1,100 to $1,200 a week ... and even that is going to be taxed down. Do any of you even remotely comprehend what it costs to live in this area. It's extremely expensive. In fact, even as we speak a lot of the poorer areas of the Bronx and Brooklyn are being gentrified pushing out affordable housing, services and food.

This is not a political issue, it's not business owner issue, it's just the right thing to do. Even if these guys cleared $1500 a week, about 5% of the company would take home 70% of the net profits.

You guys need to get with the program, at least some of you.

Trust me, the owners will never ever go hungry. They are literally bitching about money they have and will continue to have long after they are dead.

If I had Jeff Bezos money ( several billions of dollars ) I would do a secretive internal audit and I would find which employees had been with the company at least 5 years, who had the largest families and if they were living in an apartment. I would offer all of them a home and help finance 50% of that home. I swear I would do this. Jeff Bezos could give all of this money away in this fashion and turn right around and make hundreds of millions of dollars in the following months.

Sorry for the rant but I hope some of you that are in position throw some sunshine down around you time to time. My Girlfriend and I every Thanksgiving and Christmas make 4 or 5 meals and give them out to random homeless people on the street. This will be our 3rd year. We also tuck in $10 dollars into each bag we hand out. And I could give a fuk less if they buy booze or cigs with it. Whatever I can do to comfort them.

again, sorry for the rant but these drivers should be getting paid. It bothers me some of you want to defend these ultra wealthy owners. Some laws do better us as a whole. This new law is one of them. To the people that think we need less laws, no, we need laws to fix all the bullshit.

 

[sfsuphysics]

But the gears, the blood and sweat of these drivers is being ignored and no one wants to pay then.

Yeah... no, these drivers should know what they're getting into, Uber/Lyft was never meant to be a full time job, it was quite literally marketed as a whole "pick someone up on your way to work and make some extra cash" type of service. Now I'll agree it has turned into an absolute cluster fuck of roving cars in cities of people who want to treat it like a full time job because I'm guessing the app doesn't stop you from doing so, but that's on them for doing it. It's like having a job for a neighborhood boy to cut your lawn, then he turns around and wants health benefits, a "living wage", and a retirement package... .like WTF you came to me when I put the poster up that said $30 to cut a lawn!

 

[Nallexi]

Got to protect the taxi cartel.

Where I am, the issue is that they DIDN'T protect the taxi cartel.

It was legally impossible to operate a taxi without a bunch of background checks, extra certifications and a fee (well into six figures) to the state government for an accreditation.
Yet, mysteriously, the ride-share services didn't have to do any of that, despite offering a near-identical service that directly competed with the authorised one.

I'd be pretty hacked off too, in one state the hire car/taxi fee was half a million dollars. If the government is going to force a monopoly, at least do it properly.

 

[Deleted member 204526]

Where I am, the issue is that they DIDN'T protect the taxi cartel.

It was legally impossible to operate a taxi without a bunch of background checks, extra certifications and a fee (well into six figures) to the state government for an accreditation.
Yet, mysteriously, the ride-share services didn't have to do any of that, despite offering a near-identical service that directly competed with the authorised one.

I'd be pretty hacked off too, in one state the hire car/taxi fee was half a million dollars. If the government is going to force a monopoly, at least do it properly.

Well that's what happens when the government has it's throbbing boner shoved into every pie isn't it? Eventually they manage to piss off everybody for one reason or another.

 

[tetris42]

What really bothers me is none of you have gone and looked at Ubers and Lyfts profits ... they are astronomical ... a lot of money is being made and the pay packages for the owners, investors, the front office are very very lucrative. But the gears, the blood and sweat of these drivers is being ignored and no one wants to pay then. They are being shitted on.

It's not looked at because the system is working as intended.

This is not a political issue, it's not business owner issue, it's just the right thing to do.

I think you'll find doing the right thing v. doing the exact opposite is very much a political / business owner issue nowadays.

 

[Deleted member 204526]

What really bothers me is none of you have gone and looked at Ubers and Lyfts profits ... they are astronomical ... a lot of money is being made and the pay packages for the owners, investors, the front office are very very lucrative. But the gears, the blood and sweat of these drivers is being ignored and no one wants to pay then.

So what did these poor souls do to survive before these gigs came along, like, all of 10ish years ago?

 

[filip]

I have seen people doing uber getting completely fucked money wise (better off working at any minimum wage job) because they can't keep track of costs and understand all the costs of doing uber. They think they are racking it in, but in reality uber is their pimp.

 

[Tsumi]

Being paid minimum wage while you incur expensive for providing the vehicle, insurance, and gas, buy a cell phone to conduct business from and pay for the cell phone plan is literally Criminal

These are competent adults that should be capable of figuring that out for themselves. We shouldn't need the government protecting every idiot on the street from reality.

You mean... you know... like Amazon did for many many many years straight? Yeah, it's kind of a successful model these days.

Price out the competition until they are gone (or reduced) then raise rates until profitable.

There's a gas station with a new owner across the street from us that is currently trying to do the same. Let's see how long they're able to keep it up.

 

[rudy]

Yeah... no, these drivers should know what they're getting into, Uber/Lyft was never meant to be a full time job, it was quite literally marketed as a whole "pick someone up on your way to work and make some extra cash" type of service. Now I'll agree it has turned into an absolute cluster fuck of roving cars in cities of people who want to treat it like a full time job because I'm guessing the app doesn't stop you from doing so, but that's on them for doing it. It's like having a job for a neighborhood boy to cut your lawn, then he turns around and wants health benefits, a "living wage", and a retirement package... .like WTF you came to me when I put the poster up that said $30 to cut a lawn!

I don't think it matters what they marketed it as its to me it comes down to the hourly rate. IE I think it should be perfectly fine if someone wants to work once a week for candy money or 40 hours a week for a full time job. And how we treat those 2 cases should not be any different. I think one of the most broken things in the USA is how people constantly say oh well its just part time and somehow that means its OK for a company to shit all over someone. You know who has the hardest time in life? The people who don't have full time work, because they have to string together multiple part time jobs and its highly inefficient. And thank to the mentality we have actually crafted all these laws that not only shit on part time workers but actually encourage companies to shift more of their labor over to part time because its cheaper. So the point is uber and lyft should both pay enough that if a person works 40 hours per week they can make a living.

All that said we know that all this really is, is a protection scheme for the medallion system in NY.

 

[Xrave]

So do they get paid min wage + what they make from driving? Also do they get min wage only when driving a person or whenever they are running the app?

Can’t you create a fake account and get a ride for yourself. You pay yourself minus Uber’s cut but also get paid a min wage...so you net yourself money when you do your normal driving?

 

[daglesj]

As I have said before it's okay others get screwed till you do!

They wrote an app that made taxis cheaper I applauded!

They wrote an app that made plumbers cheaper I applauded!

They wrote an app that made mechanics cheaper I applauded!

They wrote an app that made (insert your job here) cheaper and I shat my pants! This is outrageous! How do they expect me to keep buying $1000 GPUs every 6 months if they cut my income to the bone? There should be a law against this!?!

 

[dgingeri]

I drove for Uber for about 6 weeks a couple years ago, and the pain of some of the rides is very real. One day, I had one ride from Parker into downtown Denver, and then a chain of constant short rides within downtown Denver. (Many of those were walking distance, like around 8-10 blocks, and these idiots took Uber. What lazy asses. Many of those rides, I drove further to pick up the person than the ride itself.) I made a total of $15 for 6 hours of driving around downtown. I burned more money in gas than I was paid. I quit driving for Uber shortly after that specifically because of those rides.

 

[nutzo]

For the purposes of NY, yes, they are doing this strictly for protectionism reasons. But the fact remains, Uber/Lyft, by treating their employees as contractors, undercuts the competition at the expense of their employees.

If they are truly independent, then fine. But their rates are defined by Uber/Lyft, and they have to pay a percentage of their profits back to the parent company, which as far as most legal experts are concerned makes them employees, no independent contractors.

Now, if each Uber/Lyft driver could independently set their own rates, then the independent contractor argument would have legs to stand on. But so long as that is not the case, they are employees of Uber/Lyft, and should be treated as such.

And if the drivers don't want to be contractors and don't like what Uber's paying, then don't drive for them.

If they where truly independent then they wouldn't be a contractor, they would be their own business.

The drivers can decided when and where they want to work, and if they want to accept a pickup.
They are paid by the job. Uber takes a cut to pay for the overhead and credit card processing.
Sounds like a contractor to me.
If they where employees, then Uber would set their hours and tell then what routes they need to drive. ​

 

[gamerk2]

They are paid by the job. Uber takes a cut to pay for the overhead and credit card processing.
Sounds like a contractor to me.

Not if Uber is taking a cut of the profits and telling them how much they can work. That makes them employees.

The 9th Circuit ruled that way; they reasoned that drivers for Uber would be considered employees of the company, as they provide a fundamental service for that company. By contrast, the guy who comes in to fix their facilities electrical network would be considered an independent contractor, since they aren't bound to the company in any way and provide a non-fundamental service for that company.

Your argument basically boils down to "a car companies drivers aren't employees".

 

[SuperSparky]

It looks like the cab companies got to the politicians and greased some pockets.