New Video Compression Standard Doubles Efficiency

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Let me see if got this right...I'll be able to get the same quality video at half the size OR double the quality at the same size as current video? Bring it on!

Ericsson discusses the recent meeting of the Moving Picture Experts Group (MPEG), which issued a draft international standard of the new High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC) video-compression format. It’s twice as efficient as current standards. Twice as efficient means half the bits, which means half the spectrum capacity is required for the same video quality.
 

DeathPrincess

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Buut "efficiency" is also related to throughput and overhead. If the decode takes less time it doesn't matter if the file size is bigger. If it is a smaller file, (thus more size efficient) and takes 3x the CPU overhead to decode (thus less efficient), it's not really an improvement. (I broke the news rules and read the article and it didn't say :eek:)
 

Ryan711

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Buut "efficiency" is also related to throughput and overhead. If the decode takes less time it doesn't matter if the file size is bigger. If it is a smaller file, (thus more size efficient) and takes 3x the CPU overhead to decode (thus less efficient), it's not really an improvement. (I broke the news rules and read the article and it didn't say :eek:)

you can't have one without the other, and since we have more cpu that space and bandwidth at the moment, this is the logical continuation.
 
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Let me guess, Apple already has a patient on this technology and is currently filing suit to stop it from appearing unless it's in their iWhatever.
 

Cali3350

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Let me guess, Apple already has a patient on this technology and is currently filing suit to stop it from appearing unless it's in their iWhatever.

Thank you for furthering the decline of this forum.

These days with GPU assisted decoding and all I say bring it on. Transmission speeds are more important and bottlenecking than processing power.
 

JosiahBradley

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These days with GPU assisted decoding and all I say bring it on. Transmission speeds are more important and bottlenecking than processing power.

Exactly, and that is why the move to general compute is the gem it is. Everyone has an adequate amount of compute time on their devices but we will always have limited amount of bandwidth to use no matter what 'Generation' we are on.

I for once would prefer doubling up on the quality over the bandwidth, as steaming video still looks horrible to me, but I have just enough bandwidth to do so.
 

Semantics

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how does this compare to .mkv and h264 enconding ? :/
.mkv is just a wrapper/container for the video stream

How does it compare to h264 or what most people will use x264 well read the article.

" Twice as efficient means half the bits, which means half the spectrum capacity is required for the same video quality."
It's a nice thing but what i care about more is quality based on how long it takes to encode

I'm surprised the MPAA hasn't sued already ;)
MPAA doesn't sure in this case, it would probably be "MPEG LA" which isn't the same as MPEG btw.
 
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Thank you for furthering the decline of this forum.

YES! Because "F-Bomb Added To Merriam-Webster Dictionary" and "Stupid Criminal of the Day" are such serious topics. Lighten up. :) If I wanted to fall asleep reading about tech I'd find a hard copy of Scientific American. :D

Agreed with transmission rates, though.
 

SirMaster

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What is new about this? They started tinkering with new mathematics to create the successor to H.264/MPEG-4 AVC way way back in 2005-2007. Then in 2009 started real work on defining HEVC. The standard isn't set to be ratified until January 2013 and then we are still far from a working implementation and device support.

It's kind of still going on schedule but nothing significant has happened any time recently so i'm not sure why this is being posted now? This surely isn't news.
 

Methadras

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Doesn't Japan already have 4k and 8k (experimental) resolutions? How are they compressing their video packets on their networks? Also, are we talking about broadcast/streaming video or dvd tech?
 

Ashbringer

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Finally, I can put full HD movies like Avatar onto floppy disks. My life long dream is finally here.

8-inch-floppy-disks.jpg
 

JosiahBradley

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Where? I don't see it.

I'd like to know this too. Half as much as what? That's what really matters.

The meeting, held in Stockholm July 16-20, gathered almost 450 people from 26 countries representing the telecoms, computer, TV and consumer electronics industries to approve and issue a draft standard for High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC). This format will enable compression levels roughly twice as high as the current H.264/AVC standard.

Source: http://www.ericsson.com/news/120814_mpeg_244159018_c, which is linked in the article.
 

DeathPrincess

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Doesn't Japan already have 4k and 8k (experimental) resolutions? How are they compressing their video packets on their networks? Also, are we talking about broadcast/streaming video or dvd tech?

Not just Japan. It's UHD (which is 8k, 7680 × 4320, 4k is also "UHD" like with "HD"'s 720p/1080i. but buying a TV in 4k seems as silly as a 720p set). There was a test filming going on during the olympics by the BBC and NHK (who are Japanese), and a load of networks were part of the starndard.
 

c3141hf

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Another dangerous patent-encumbered "standard".

This should be avoided at all costs in favor of free formats.
 

DeathPrincess

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Another dangerous patent-encumbered "standard".

This should be avoided at all costs in favor of free formats.

Jpegs shot my dog and gave SkribbleKat herpes! :eek:

With standards it's kind of different. You want want it open to people doing whatever, and then end up with hardware/software that isn't compatible (HTML/CSS), you want rigid guidelines. This isn't like dolby sound formats where you need a giant licence. You can save to loads of "patented" formats in open source software.

Which widely used open standard would you recommend? :p
 

c3141hf

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Jpegs shot my dog and gave SkribbleKat herpes! :eek:

With standards it's kind of different. You want want it open to people doing whatever, and then end up with hardware/software that isn't compatible (HTML/CSS), you want rigid guidelines. This isn't like dolby sound formats where you need a giant licence. You can save to loads of "patented" formats in open source software.

Which widely used open standard would you recommend? :p

There are over 500 patent claims with HEVC by dozens of different companies. How does one propose to make this "standard" affordable to independent and FOSS software developers?

I suggest using WebM, which, despite the FUD campaign of the MPEG-LA, is a free standard.

In addition, I don't buy the whole "open/closed" standard nonsense. MPEG4 Part 2 (ASP) was a similar encumbered standard and there were tons of incompatible devices that wouldn't play a video because it was encoded with GMC.
 

SkribbelKat

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Jpegs shot my dog and gave SkribbleKat herpes! :eek:

I'm filing for divorce. After all these months, you can't even spell my name right...and let's not bring up the infection again. It's well-controlled by medication so outbreaks are rare.
 

bacon

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Another dangerous patent-encumbered "standard".

This should be avoided at all costs in favor of free formats.

Makes sense. Why don't a bunch of developers work for free and create something better? Or get someone with lots of money to give it to them so they can give away the fruits of their labor? :rolleyes:

Most of the time when something worthwhile gets done its because someone is getting paid to do it.
 

DeathPrincess

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There are over 500 patent claims with HEVC by dozens of different companies. How does one propose to make this "standard" affordable to independent and FOSS software developers?

I suggest using WebM, which, despite the FUD campaign of the MPEG-LA, is a free standard.

In addition, I don't buy the whole "open/closed" standard nonsense. MPEG4 Part 2 (ASP) was a similar encumbered standard and there were tons of incompatible devices that wouldn't play a video because it was encoded with GMC.

WebM the Google project? It isn't a widely used standard, and is unlikely to really go anywhere. Mainly because normal people don't care about such things.

I'm filing for divorce. After all these months, you can't even spell my name right...and let's not bring up the infection again. It's well-controlled by medication so outbreaks are rare.

Was talking about the evil SkribbleKat, not you! Was a subtle ploy to make you admit your infectioness! :eek:
 

Malazan01

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Thank you for furthering the decline of this forum.

These days with GPU assisted decoding and all I say bring it on. Transmission speeds are more important and bottlenecking than processing power.

GPU encoding quality is pretty bad,as confirmed on Anandtech,Techreport and other sites.As well as the testing I have done myself.The only GPU tech that gets close to regular CPU encoding is Quick Sync from Intel.Sadly. I encode with CPU only in Handbrake cause otherwise it looks like dogshit.
 
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I don't know if you guys have seen it yet... but one guys has figured this out already using x264.

Look up the near perfect 720p bluray rips by YIFY.

The size of the movies are average 700-800MB as compared to everyone else 2+ gigs... with little to no quality loss.

I am still trying to duplicate his method.
 

c3141hf

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Makes sense. Why don't a bunch of developers work for free and create something better? Or get someone with lots of money to give it to them so they can give away the fruits of their labor? :rolleyes:

Most of the time when something worthwhile gets done its because someone is getting paid to do it.

No one is asking developers to work for free however if another group of developers wants to create a compatible implementation of an algorithm, they should be free to do so without facing government-sanctioned violence.
 

Methadras

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Not just Japan. It's UHD (which is 8k, 7680 × 4320, 4k is also "UHD" like with "HD"'s 720p/1080i. but buying a TV in 4k seems as silly as a 720p set). There was a test filming going on during the olympics by the BBC and NHK (who are Japanese), and a load of networks were part of the starndard.

That's right, UHD. Thanks for the reminder. I remember now.
 

Semantics

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Meh. MKV does everything that I need.
.mkv is a container/wrapper =p it has nothing to do with the video stream which in .mkv case can be nearly anything from old dvd format of H.262 microsoft's VC-1 and ofc the AVC subset of h.264 which is what you probably mean, it has a little bit to do with cpu overhead and file size but that's about it. This is progress no reason to not say it would be better.
 

SirMaster

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GPU encoding quality is pretty bad,as confirmed on Anandtech,Techreport and other sites.As well as the testing I have done myself.The only GPU tech that gets close to regular CPU encoding is Quick Sync from Intel.Sadly. I encode with CPU only in Handbrake cause otherwise it looks like dogshit.

He said GPU assisted decoding. Not encoding. GPU decoders are lossless. And GPU decoding is important since HEVC is substantially more complex and requires a lot more power to decode it will tax a CPU quite a bit otherwise.


Also, closed standards suck, that's why we don't have H.264 support on Firefox or Opera. They cannot afford it.
 

Stone Cold

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THIS JUST IN: Apple is filing a patent for using HEVC encoded videos on touch screen devices.
 

nutzo

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Finally, I can put full HD movies like Avatar onto floppy disks. My life long dream is finally here.

Floppies is a bit of an exaggeration.

However, even with the current compression standards you can put most movies on a dual layer DVD using 1080p, as long as you stick to a single audio track. Even 2+ hour movies will fit on a dual-layer DVD at 720p.

If they can double the current compression, then there would be room for longer movies (Avatar for example) with multiple audio tracks and even extras. All on a standard Dual layer DVD.

It also means that I'll be able to put 1-2 hours of 1080p home movies on a standard single layer DVD.

Guess I don't really need the BluRay Burner after all :)
 
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