New to SLR! I'm excited!

BrinNutz said:
Nice!

I picked up a SanDisk 4gb Extreme III card for like $30 shipped a couple weeks ago..=0
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WTF! Where? I picked up the 2gb A-Data Turbo (266x) for $22 from the egg but 4gb for a few dollars more? Seriously
 
gregnash said:
WTF! Where? I picked up the 2gb A-Data Turbo (266x) for $22 from the egg but 4gb for a few dollars more? Seriously
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Maybe used or on a good deal. There are some insane rebates sometimes.

I picked up my Ultra II 2gb cards for $15 each or so 6months ago ;)
 
I think I got it from Fry's...or was it Amazon, hell I don't remember. Maybe it was $35. I'll have to look if you really want me to.

Anyhow, it's the Extreme III, so it's a tad faster.
 
Man, I've always been so jealous of you guys - those DSLRs are soooo slick - you can really tell in the image quality, sometimes when you see a picture it just has this (lack of a word but its like WOW) stunning quality to it.

Just a question though, I would think that if you buy a nice camera like this, you would want to take it when you travel - but what do you do when you're backpacking, etc. seems like an awful lot of gear (expensive gear at that) to have to look after...
 
When the shots are awesome, they are really awesome...

Don't think all of the pictures turn out like that though =P. Some need some tweaking, and others...are just not salvageable....

As far as expensive gear....Yeah it is more than a point and shoot, but then again, just buy the used stuff.

Rebel XT + Sigma 18-200OS Has just about everything you need. Sure the images won't be stunning, but they will be good enough.
 
Have to agree with Rix, if you are not doing much and have a limited budget then the Rebel XT (or even a used 20D or 30D if your lucky is stellar) and the Sigma 18-200mm OS is a good start in the right direction.

I just recently picked up a used 20D with about 10k clicks on it from the FS forum at POTN for $400 (comes with all the boxed stuff and one extra battery) Then I picked up a 2gb card and Nifty for another $100, so all in all for $500 I got a good starter camera that has features that the Rebel series does not. But the main reason that I went with the XXD series is because of the size of the body and the magnesium alloy body. After holding the Rebel and then the 40D you can tell a series difference in build quality. See we bought the XT for my dad for X-mas and its perfect for him because he does not do a lot of shooting. However I plan on doing a lot of shooting, especially when we go to Cabo for our Honeymoon, so having something that is a bit more capable and that I can grow into is nice. More than anything it comes down to personal preference.

As soon as I get the body I will take some pics for you guys.
 
Hi im about to go to a martial arts grading show and wanna know whats the best settings to shoot action scenes from the event. bare in mind i only have the standard lens on a 400d
 
It depends on lighting.

Go to phtography-on-the.net and go to sports. I think there is a thread there about it, not sure. 'm still learning myself, so I
don't want to guide you or say something wrong.
 
jonneymendoza said:
it will be in a hall with half of the lighting coming from outside
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The built in sports mode would be good for starting out and having the camera do the work. If you want to get more manual...

I would use Tv mode and lock the shutter in at something fairly high. Around 1/100 -1/250 at least, but higher would be better. The camera will then pick the aperture for you. Not you may not be able to go extremely high with the shutter (the numbers will then blink) because your aperture will limit you.

You should then up the ISO to something around ISO800 or so (800 is still pretty good on noise on the Canons). If you have to, it is always better to have noise than blur IMO so you can bump it up the ISO1600 (you will get noise, but noise is better than blur!).
 
I'm also kind of new to DSLR (played around with my brother's 10D a while back), and I'm going to be getting my first camera next month. I'll be using it for a vacation in England in July. My brother recommended a Rebel XTi with the Tamron 17-50. Would you agree wit his recommendation, or is there a better camera/lens combo to be had for around $1300? I'd prefer to get something that's not used.
 
July is sort of close. I would wait to see if Nikon will release a D90 with new sensor. Maybe it wouldn't ship in time but it might knock down the price of D80 some.

If it doesn't come out, I'd get the D80 + Tamron 17-50.
 
lan said:
July is sort of close. I would wait to see if Nikon will release a D90 with new sensor. Maybe it wouldn't ship in time but it might knock down the price of D80 some.

If it doesn't come out, I'd get the D80 + Tamron 17-50.
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Meh... if his brother already has a 10D then why not stick with Canon, that way they can share lenses for the time being. That Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 is a nice lens, I just picked up the Nifty and I am starting to look as to what to save up for next. Don't really see myself doing a lot of long distance shooting so probably get an all-around lens something like that Sigma 18-200 OS or something similar. Don't have a lot of money to spend on it right now so probably going to be looking for something used under $400.

Suggestions?
 
Simply because I believe at this moment Nikon is a better system in dynamic situations. Canon at this moment is lacking a working auto ISO feature and the flash system isn't as good. These two features are paramount in getting the picture you want easily and quickly. There's less fuss with the camera and you concentrate more with the scene. I use both so I have experience.

I wouldn't worry too much about sharing lenses. It's not that big of a deal for the casual user. If he needs telephoto, 55-200 VR is a great lens and relatively cheap ~$230ish.

gregnash said:
Don't really see myself doing a lot of long distance shooting so probably get an all-around lens something like that Sigma 18-200 OS or something similar.
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If you don't need long distance, don't buy it in the form of a super zoom. It's just a compromise in image quality. Tamron 17-50 or 28-75 are great choices. You should figure out what range you really want though.
 
gregnash said:
Meh... if his brother already has a 10D then why not stick with Canon, that way they can share lenses for the time being. That Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 is a nice lens, I just picked up the Nifty and I am starting to look as to what to save up for next. Don't really see myself doing a lot of long distance shooting so probably get an all-around lens something like that Sigma 18-200 OS or something similar. Don't have a lot of money to spend on it right now so probably going to be looking for something used under $400.

Suggestions?
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What do you have now besides the nifty?

The 17-50 is a great lens, especially for the price. So is the Sigma 24-70, although a bit longer on a crop sensor. Some like that though, I for example use my 24-105 all the time on my crop sensor ;)
 
lan said:
Simply because I believe at this moment Nikon is a better system in dynamic situations. Canon at this moment is lacking a working auto ISO feature and the flash system isn't as good. These two features are paramount in getting the picture you want easily and quickly. There's less fuss with the camera and you concentrate more with the scene. I use both so I have experience.
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Why does everyone love auto ISO so much on Nikon? I like controlling it myself personally and see no reason for it auto selecting between a range of ISOs as a decision maker. Not a big feature IMO and I do not use it shooting with my uncles nikon gear. Definietly not a reason to go Nikon over Canon IMO.

Maybe I just like more control though. Are you a full Auto shooter? I guess if you are then I could see the want/need for it.

I do wish canon would pickup some of nikons multiflash system though, that is nice. Single flash there is not a big difference between the two though.

Anyhow, dont want to get into Nik vs. Canon. I like both but choose Canon for a few personal reasons. If he has a relative with canon he should go Canon as well to share some glass/accessories. I wish my uncle had Canon too so we could share ;)
 
I'm with you - got no use for auto-ISO. My camera doesn't even have auto modes: PSAM. I use A 90% of the time
 
PS-RagE said:
I'm with you - got no use for auto-ISO. My camera doesn't even have auto modes: PSAM. I use A 90% of the time
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Hehe, ya, my 30D pretty much doesnt when I use it :p

I learned to switch into the manual modes on my 300D, then when I moved to the 30D I always just use the manual modes. I dont think I have even ever used the auto modes but maybe once.

But that is personal choice!
 
The more you fiddle with the camera, the more you're missing opportunities as you're not looking at the subject through the viewfinder. I shoot very fast and changing ISO slows me down sometimes. In a situation where things are dynamic, it's quite an important feature if you want to maximize your quality. Vacations present such varied situations. Some people also don't want to think much on a vacation it's a vacation after all. It's a good thing to have.

To me it totally makes sense in the new world of digital cameras. Static ISO is "old" and is limiting to me now. Once you've experienced auto ISO, it opens up opportunities. Other things which I think can impact how you shoot is image stabilization and live view. You can get shots better than you did before and sometimes get shots you could've never taken.

I use my Nikon outside and when I don't know what situation I'll be in and Canon only inside, for static situations, or studio work, or when I can preplan. This way I can maximize my quality.

This isn't about brand. It's about the tools. I'll use anything to get the shots I want. For my style of shooting, it totally makes sense. Vacations are basically worst case scenario as it's the most challenging to the camera and the person. I rather have the better tool in this case a Nikon with auto ISO.

I will now present to you a situation which just would not have been captured the way it was in my mind with any camera less than D300. It was Chinese New Years and there is a martial arts demonstration. A guy is jumping off another guy to break a wooden block about 8ft in the air. With minimum shutter speed selection in Nikon's auto ISO you can do something interesting which is dial in the amount of motion blur of the subject. Do you see how this is like M mode? I set the aperture and the shutter and it's the ISO which changes to get the exposure. I take the photo once he hits the apex. Final result is the guy is sharp except his leg breaking the block of wood. Too slow a shutter speed and his whole body would be blurry. Too fast a shutter speed and everything will be frozen. I dial in about the right shutter speed to get the effect. I do this with other things also e.g. kids birthday parties. Just a little amount of motion blur makes things more interesting. You couldn't do this without being in S mode. For subject isolation, A mode works best. The best is M but if you don't have auto ISO, you will get either over or under exposure. Does this example demonstrate how auto ISO can be useful creatively?

Another thing is there are many people in front of me so I cannot get a clear line shot. So I raised the camera above my head with Live View and shot that way. I also brought my Canon as second camera with me and it was useless at this moment.
 
True I see your points where it could come in handy, a lot could be recreated with proper settings in M mode but probably would not be as easy, but anyhow Canon is slowly adding it to their cameras and their system is improving.

Live View is also already on all the new Canons.


Anyhow, Like I said this is not a Nikon vs. Canon debate and I like both. Fact is both have pros and both have cons. Neither one is better cause it seems like for everything better on one there is something better on the other.

Comes down to personal preference and where the glass is at (aka whats available to you).
 
I think Auto ISO would be a step in the right direction for Canon.

I think the full manual controls should still be there, but it is time for the cpu's and programming to be a bit smarter.

Auto ISO would just be like an extension of how we want to creatively take a picture. When I take a picture, I could have a range of shutter speeds and such acceptable to me, but maybe I want to vary the other parameters...

Some features that future dSLR's should have...are simple.

Just remember that these ideas are mine and if it comes down to me thinking about it first...then give credit to me.

I would love to see a rules based setting based upon an acceptable set of ranges.

i.e. we can adust these things: shutter speed, aperture, ISO, and exposure.

I propose a system where a user can dial either, a fixed value for one or more settings and a variable range of settings for the others. So I can set a shutter speed of 200 +/- 50 to increase the number of shots, but I want aperture to be a fixed value such as F2.8, and vary the ISO also in a range to compensate for different exposures. Of course there needs to be a notification as to when everything in the scene fulfills those requirements or does not.

I also propose a simple DOF calculator and display system on the camera. Since the lens is able to send distance information to the camera and also since the aperature of the lens is also known, The camera should be able to perform the necessary calculations about the minimum distance in focus and the maximum distance in focus and display it on the camera. That is such a simple thing to implement and I wonder why camera makers haven't even thought of that. Literally, whole books have been written on "Circle of Confusion"....blah blah blah...


There you go. My 2 cents. And for those still not with me....look at the evolution of windows. We get wizards for setting up certain stuff in WinXP. Vista's UI is just an extension of that concept (IMO I think it was overdone, that's why everyone hates it). And when you look back at DOS....while it could do a bunch of stuff....people who knew how to use it had to worry too much about stuff like syntax, order of commands, etc. Hence, why batch files were so popular.
 
There are pros and cons to the systems and even if you get down to particular lines and models. e.g. XXXD vs. XXD vs. XD. and 30D vs. 40D, etc. For casual users, most of these cameras are all the same. For more advanced users, it's possible to use only a subset of features, and certain styles of photography would use different subsets. Sometimes you have features which similar by name but are not equivalent in implementation. It's worth discussing that. The differences could be important enough to make it useful or not.

It's great Canon is improving things. Live View on XSi has more options than on 40D. Auto ISO should get better in the next round I hope. I have to acknowledge that Canon's auto ISO as it is right now is not as useful. Where as Liveview's use is quite situational, I argue that auto ISO can be put high on the list of important features because it's related to exposure.

Personal preference and lens choice matters but auto iso and live view can affect image quality and usage (some of which relate to these personal preferences). Image quality trumps certain preferences to me. What are some of these personal preferences? Like menu layout, control locations, grip comfort, viewfinder size, and displays. Ok so using a Canon XTi, there's no ISO display in viewfinder so I'm not reminded what ISO I'm at. I find that kind of annoying. Good thing the XSi fixed that. :p On 1 series when I switch ISO, I must use 2 buttons on upper left causing the whole weight balance to go in my right hand momentarily. Being that it's heavy, I find that annoying. If I had auto ISO in either camera, I wouldn't have to worry so much about where to look for ISO or how to change it. If you can wait to change the settings, that's cool but if you can't or the subject can't wait well then you would have to deal with a lesser than ideal image.

If jadesaber2's bro lent him some lenses, that could be quite useful depending on what they are. I would get an XSi or 40D in that case. Better AF and autoISO directly affect keeper rates which is good in dynamic environment shooting IMO.
 
Rix2357 said:
I think Auto ISO would be a step in the right direction for Canon.

I think the full manual controls should still be there, but it is time for the cpu's and programming to be a bit smarter.

I also propose a simple DOF calculator and display system on the camera.
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Auto ISO is the right step for any digital camera manufacturer now.

Agreed that the programming should be smarter.

There used to be a mode called DEP on Canon cameras. It's like defunct now unfortunately. http://luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/dep.shtml
 
lan said:
July is sort of close. I would wait to see if Nikon will release a D90 with new sensor. Maybe it wouldn't ship in time but it might knock down the price of D80 some.

If it doesn't come out, I'd get the D80 + Tamron 17-50.
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I played around with the D80 at my local BB. I like the size and weight, but the placement of the dials and buttons seemed a bit counterintuitive to me. I like having the wheel behind the trigger instead of sticking out the front. It falls naturally beneath my finger. That, and I couldn't really figure out the menu system on the Nikons.

My brother would only let me borrow one of his lenses. He's got a Sigma 18-125, a 70-200 F4 L, and one other lens - can't remember which one right now. He's not going to let me use the L yet, if ever. I'd only get to use the Sigma.
 
A-DEP from the description in the link I gave is not the same as DEP and seems useless. There aren't enough focal points to choose from and they are not edge to edge.
 
I was simply talking about being able to read the focus distance on the lcd, and also having two other numbers to each side of it. Maybe by convention, the one on the left would be the limit of the nearest object in focus, and the number on the right of the focus distance would be the farthest object still in focus.
 
lan said:
A-DEP from the description in the link I gave is not the same as DEP and seems useless. There aren't enough focal points to choose from and they are not edge to edge.
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People have actually compared it, A-DEP actually works very well/just as good in many cases and it is very effective. I have used it quite a bit and it will get everything in focus no problem on my 30D.

Note that that link you gave compares A-DEP to DEP on the first rebel (300D), D30, D60 and 10D. I agree on those older cameras it is not as nice, but on the newer ones that is not so much the case. It is much better on the newer cameras like the 30D and 40D because there are more focus points and the focusing system is much improved.
 
Rix2357 said:
I was simply talking about being able to read the focus distance on the lcd, and also having two other numbers to each side of it. Maybe by convention, the one on the left would be the limit of the nearest object in focus, and the number on the right of the focus distance would be the farthest object still in focus.
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BTW what would you do with those numbers?

Grentz said:
Note that that link you gave compares A-DEP to DEP on the first rebel (300D), D30, D60 and 10D. I agree on those older cameras it is not as nice, but on the newer ones that is not so much the case. It is much better on the newer cameras like the 30D and 40D because there are more focus points and the focusing system is much improved.
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I read it changed a bit over time but the fact is A still stands for Auto. If you have time to mess with it, that's perfectly fine. What do you do? rotate your camera, zoom in and out to wait for the right focal points to light up? It's guess work. On DEP you choose the closest, furthest points you want with the central (most sensitive sensor), recompose then shoot.
 
lan said:
I read it changed a bit over time but the fact is A still stands for Auto. If you have time to mess with it, that's perfectly fine. What do you do? rotate your camera, zoom in and out to wait for the right focal points to light up? It's guess work. On DEP you choose the closest, furthest points you want with the central (most sensitive sensor), recompose then shoot.
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I guess, but the idea is to get everything in focus, so you are not selecting portions of the frame to get into focus anyhow.

It also works pretty darn well on the 30D I have, so dont knock it if you have not used it.

You can make up for it as well by knowing about hyperfocal distances and using manual mode and such, A-DEP is just good in a pinch.
 
Missed this post:

Grentz said:
Thats a very good combo.

I hope you are not saying $1300 for that combo though, it can be had for much less even brand new:

Xti ($535)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=457506&is=REG
+
Tamron 17-50 ($420)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=423714&is=REG

= 954.90 + ~$16 S&H = $971 all said and done!
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Yeah, I had a list drawn up with the camera, the 17-50, a telephoto lens (I forget which one), and assorted accessories (bag, battery, memory card, card reader, UV filter) Total came out to about $1300. Then I figured I wouldn't really need the telephoto lens for England, so I took that one off. Just forgot to drop the price.
 
Ok, no problem, just making sure you were not spending way more than you had to ;)
 
Grentz said:
I guess, but the idea is to get everything in focus, so you are not selecting portions of the frame to get into focus anyhow.

It also works pretty darn well on the 30D I have, so dont knock it if you have not used it.

You can make up for it as well by knowing about hyperfocal distances and using manual mode and such, A-DEP is just good in a pinch.
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Whoa hold on there. The idea is not about getting everything in focus nor about hyperfocal distances. I think you missed the point of such a mode and feature. I'll give you an example. You have a group of people standing in different positions. What you could possibly want is to get enough DOF to get all members of the party to be in focus. A-DEP chooses points automatically. With DEP I can choose the closest person's nose and the farthest person's ears.

I haven't used A-DEP, it's basically useless for me just like auto / programmed modes. Not that you can't get a photo.... it's just not manual enough so there's less creative freedom. It also can't be used in a pinch. Try doing it when you work rapidly or if you have a very short moment. I don't want the camera doing the guess work nor wasting too much time fiddling with the camera.

I'm not knocking it. Just acknowledging there's better out there. DEP is more useful just like auto-ISO. Of course if you never use those things, it doesn't have value to YOU but you can't dismiss what they bring to the table.

I'm still sticking with my recommendation of DON'T get XTi. Get D80 or XSi or 40D for now or wait for D90 and see how it is. You want the best tool. The others have auto iso and better autofocusing which for dynamic situations like trips are better to have.
 
Fair enough, I did oversimplify that. Also I stated as well that I like manual better, so we are in agreement on that ;)

xti, D40(x), and xt are still good choices though on a budget, I have seen work from those that rivals even the best digital cameras. The tools are perfectly capable, the shooter makes more of a difference. Glass also adds a lot more than the small features between the bodies IMO. The XTI is also pretty much the rival to the D80, so if you can say a D80 is fine, so should the XTI be fine. In fact the XTI's IQ is superior to the D80 in a few tests I have seen (including those from www.dpreview.com).

As I said, I am not a Canon fanboy, or Nikon fanboy. I like to see the table evenly, and thus you have to be fair to both sides.
 
Grentz said:
Fair enough, I did oversimplify that. Also I stated as well that I like manual better, so we are in agreement on that ;)

xti, D40(x), and xt are still good choices though on a budget, I have seen work from those that rivals even the best digital cameras. The tools are perfectly capable, the shooter makes more of a difference. Glass also adds a lot more than the small features between the bodies IMO. The XTI is also pretty much the rival to the D80, so if you can say a D80 is fine, so should the XTI be fine. In fact the XTI's IQ is superior to the D80 in a few tests I have seen (including those from www.dpreview.com).

As I said, I am not a Canon fanboy, or Nikon fanboy. I like to see the table evenly, and thus you have to be fair to both sides.
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Anything... *anything* over a D40/x/60 if you are planning on using autofocus. XTi certainly over those bodies any day of the week. The bottom of the Nikon line is the D80, unless you are full-manual shooter.
 
Grentz said:
xti, D40(x), and xt are still good choices though on a budget, I have seen work from those that rivals even the best digital cameras. The tools are perfectly capable, the shooter makes more of a difference. Glass also adds a lot more than the small features between the bodies IMO. The XTI is also pretty much the rival to the D80, so if you can say a D80 is fine, so should the XTI be fine. In fact the XTI's IQ is superior to the D80 in a few tests I have seen (including those from www.dpreview.com).

As I said, I am not a Canon fanboy, or Nikon fanboy. I like to see the table evenly, and thus you have to be fair to both sides.
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jadesaber2 had a budget of $1300 so it wasn't exactly entry level. Good work can be gotten from any camera. What you don't see/read about is all the shots missed.

Glass doesn't add anything magical. You just choose your focal ranges you're interested in and the speed that you want.

XTI and D80 are not the same class camera. D80 has better AF, more AF points, a spot meter, and you can link AF point choice with spot metering, has larger and brighter viewfinder, is more responsive, and is physically larger. Functionality and usability trump image quality IMO because it sometimes is the difference of getting an image, a better image, or not one at all. This is regardless of the person's skills even with the best lenses.

I am not a fan of either camp but I do own both. There's just nothing I can argue for Canon in this case though as a better tool. You can still take pictures though. :p BTW one of my cameras is an XTi (and yep I'm arguing against it). If I had a choice of something being my only camera in that price bracket of $1300, I rather have a D80, XSi new or D200 / 40D used.
 
Well, I'm looking to find a used Sigma 50-500mm now!!!

I need the 500mm!! Will be great for the Academy Graduation (the one I was supposed to be graduating with, but I resigned).
 
Grentz did you end up getting that one on the POTN? I saw your name up for the one Bigma there. I finally got my 20D yesterday and was able to play with it for awhile last night. LOVE THAT CAMERA!!!! Now to start investing in better glass and a carrying case. Think I might end up with a 5MDH or 6MDH....see what happens.
 
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